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RE: Bulldoze it or brick by brick? - 3/4/2009 2:49:00 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
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Status: offline 		Miss,

I wish to god I could tell you how to bulldoze it but you can't.  It isn't an action, it is a process.   That wall, and those bricks, served a purpose, they kept you safe from bad choices, some more concious, some far less so.  As you grow and mature, as you work through problems, you are able to suddenly SEE parts of that wall, recognize the patterns and start fixing them.

You can't fix them overnight, but you CAN fix them, you can move past your wall.  Many, like you, avoid intimacy and or love.  Lots of reasons why, fear of having it torn away is a common one.  So  because you can't offer love, someone who would give you love stays away because you can't recipricate that love.

The reality is we don't tear down our walls or in my case, my pitfalls as much as grind them slowly smaller or fill them in.  Just know it can be done and you seem to have the strength to do the hard work it takes.  It requires going into those dark places inside of us and dealing with the deamons lurking there.

Trust me, I know.  I have been doing a lot of growth over the last year, some of it very hard and brutal.  It requires real honesty to look at your life, realize some of it is deeply fucked up and working on it.  It requires sometimes letting go of those things you want because they are wrong for you and are not what you need.

I left CM a while back because I saw I was using it as a source of affirmations.  I was right but realized a bit ago that the problem is much bigger and wider.  I look for affirmations externally, especially in relationships.  That is why I thrash around when I am single and tend to stay in relationships long after I should leave them.  I need/crave that affirmation I get from my partner.

In reality is is my mother I crave that affirmation from and also the source of my fear that my partner could evaporate and disapear on me because she turned her love off and on to emotionally manipulate those around her.  That is why I choose demanding partners and then fear they will evaporate. 

So, MY work is to stay away from relationships, learn to provide my own affirmation, and work on getting myself to where I need to be to have the sort of partner I want and deserve.  The harder I try and get it all now, the farther away it slips.  I have to let it all go and do the work I don't want to do in order to be ready for when it does come.

Looking at yourself like this it is important to be honest but also to do so in a manner that is gentle and affirming.  I am not here as much anymore so I will give you my email.  I wish you the best of luck and think you are going to be a very amazing woman one day!

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RE: Bulldoze it or brick by brick? - 3/4/2009 3:18:35 PM   
InTonguesslave


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Status: offline 		brick by brick as each brick presents itself.

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RE: Bulldoze it or brick by brick? - 3/4/2009 3:29:40 PM   
mc1234


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
Looking at yourself like this it is important to be honest but also to do so in a manner that is gentle and affirming.  I am not here as much anymore so I will give you my email.  I wish you the best of luck and think you are going to be a very amazing woman one day!


Great post - but I'd quibble with your closing statement.  I think she is an amazing woman already.  Anyone who is willing to take an introspective look and figure out what it is that's not working and take action to correct it is aces in my book....  :)    Too many folks stumble through life clueless rather than doing the hard task of being honest with themselves. 

OP - I'm not self-aware enough to see the bricks around me until something points them out to me (a relationship stumble, for example).  Then I'm all like 'ah-ha!' and those around me are saying 'well, duh!'  lol  Sometimes I have to be hit with a 'clue by 4', but once I am, I'm all for working past the issue.  I find the trick is finding the bricks in the first place for me. 

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RE: Bulldoze it or brick by brick? - 3/4/2009 4:22:11 PM   
missturbation


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quote:

I am not here as much anymore so I will give you my email.  I wish you the best of luck and think you are going to be a very amazing woman one day!


Thankyou very much Michael. I have your addy and i'm pretty sure i'll be using it
 
quote:

brick by brick as each brick presents itself.


That's what i keep on telling myself
They all seem to be falling on me at once right now though
 




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RE: Bulldoze it or brick by brick? - 3/5/2009 1:08:48 AM   
InTonguesslave


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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

brick by brick as each brick presents itself.


That's what i keep on telling myself
They all seem to be falling on me at once right now though
 





then thats scary and it can make you feel like its all going to drown you out.  there are big things i slammed the door on years ago and its only now im letting bits go, with help from Sir  .

just be passive, let each thought that comes filter and settle into you. 

ill cry, go for a mad march across the forest, meditate, but i dont turn away from them anymore.

normally one thing stands out in the crowd or sometimes its just a fog of feelings that have no particular identity - theyre just feelings, let them flow and dont be afraid of them.

hugs lally xx

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RE: Bulldoze it or brick by brick? - 3/5/2009 2:28:45 AM   
MG4Apuppygirl


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Status: offline 		BULLDOZE it. Then bulid it back up brick by brick the way you want it.

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RE: Bulldoze it or brick by brick? - 3/5/2009 3:06:50 AM   
InTonguesslave


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MG4Apuppygirl

BULLDOZE it. Then bulid it back up brick by brick the way you want it.


its difficult to bulldoze something you cant see or feel clearly - often these brick walls have been built up over time and are a mix of all sorts of stuff from different points in your life.  often a brick wall is built very early on and stuff just collects behind it and around it, collecting dust and further complicating it.

the odd thing is that in my minds eye i can kinda feel a brick wall but its a barrier of many parts largely made up of emotions.  the scary thing about those emotions is that they can be incredibly powerful and really hit you hard, sometimes you cant even identify where they came from or why they are there straight away and you find yourself in a storm of hurt and anger that can very easily send you runing away from the thing thats opened it up - infact thats the point of them, when you think about it - its meant to be a protective measure, but very often its not protecting you from anything, its simply keeping you stuck.

the hard thing is to stand firm and let it hit you - you cant hit it and thats the problem.  you cant bulldoze something down that is ellusive and built to withstand assault.

its a process miss, thats all - the subconcious will fight you all the way because the subconcious is trying to protect you.  if you see these things as yours, not the by-product of someone gone from youre life and no longer able to hurt you - you can challenge them. 

its not so much an active process as a passive one and its not going to happen over night.  but as the process starts youll find youre subconcious will start to drip feed you things and instead of slamming the door on them, as you probably always have you have to let them in and deal with them.

believe me i know.  there is a door in my past that ive only recently allowed open.  in the past this door scared the crap out of me.  the feelings of anger, hurt were so overwhelming it led me to feelings of self harm and self loathing.  even as im typing this bit tears are coming and my throat feels clogged - you have to let them in hun and deal with them.  they cant hurt you anymore, they just need to be let out and when you do, after youve stopped crying and hurting youll find theyre not so big and scary as you thought.  time and youre subconcious has been working on them without you knowing.  life isnt static, as we go through we learn things that settle things we dont realise are being settled.

its like going for an interview for a job.  we're all scared as we step through that door and then we find that the room isnt painted black and theyre not knawing on the bones of previous interviewees.  its not so bad because we are a little bit prepared and we have who we are to get us through.

it all sounds a bit melodramatic as i write this - we build things up in our heads a bit and try to overanalize it.  dont.  just let it go.

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RE: Bulldoze it or brick by brick? - 3/5/2009 3:35:31 AM   
InTonguesslave


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Status: offline 		sorry, just one other thing.

you cant rush through self protection - you have to go through a process of letting people in slowly. youll hold back and keep things back and thats the right thing to do as you keep edging forward.

i pull back, ive pulled back with Sir,  ive stood stock still and felt for all the world like a wild horse in the middle of the outback ready to gallop for the hills.  oddly enough, when i didnt and i just let him herd me gently along i settled, the obstruction dissolved and we moved forward another step.

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RE: Bulldoze it or brick by brick? - 3/5/2009 5:00:00 AM   
CatdeMedici


Posts: 2257
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Status: offline 		I think it depends on you:
 
How ready are you to accept or change?
What kind of resolve do you have?
Are you doing it for you or to become someone's ideal?
Are they really issues that need to be changed? ( Major life impactors versus leaving the toilet seat up)
How many times have you come to this threshold and it was too hard, too painful?
Are these things really an issue or someone's perception that they are?
How will this work change life as you know it now, for the better? For the worse?
Are you prepared for solid selfspeak if you backslide?
What are you prepared to deny yourself until you feel you are better able to face, cope, accept the realities?
 
I think some of those things have to factor in to how one goes about a "major overhaul" and whether bull dozing or brick removal is a better approach.

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RE: Bulldoze it or brick by brick? - 3/5/2009 7:23:57 AM   
missturbation


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quote:

then thats scary and it can make you feel like its all going to drown you out.  there are big things i slammed the door on years ago and its only now im letting bits go, with help from Sir  

I definately know the drowning feeling and in the past i have drowned. I managed to get involved with people that just brushed my aside and used authority to say 'we are no longer discussing this'. It takes some getting used to having someone willing to listen and talk to me even when my feelings are more paranoias.
 
quote:

just be passive, let each thought that comes filter and settle into you. 

ill cry, go for a mad march across the forest, meditate, but i dont turn away from them anymore.

Unfortunately i've never been very good at passive. Over the years though i have learnt that my gut instinct response is not always the right response. I usually (sometimes falter with of course) request to walk away for a time and analyse my thoughts and feelings, so i can come back with rationally put together thoughts, that usually are miles away from my original gut instinct.
 
quote:

normally one thing stands out in the crowd or sometimes its just a fog of feelings that have no particular identity - theyre just feelings, let them flow and dont be afraid of them.

I am afraid of them but genuinely hope and feel that given a little time i will be able to let go of that fear.
 
quote:

it all sounds a bit melodramatic as i write this - we build things up in our heads a bit and try to overanalize it.  dont.  just let it go.

Lol it all feels a bit melodramatic to me at the moment too. I've built these walls and everytime i come across a 'problem' i floop and then have to tell myself that Sir is not any of my previous partners. And therefore presuming He will react in the same way or do the same things as previous partners didis not only highly unfair, but more than likely completely wrong.
 






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If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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RE: Bulldoze it or brick by brick? - 3/5/2009 7:44:12 AM   
missturbation


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici

I think it depends on you:
 
How ready are you to accept or change?

 
Do we ever really know that we are 100% ready to change or accept? I think that the only way to truly find out is to try. A situation arose recently where in the past i would have been running for the hills. I didn't run though, i stood and faced it however clumsily and i got past it. 
That shows me i am ready for change but how ready is anyones guess.

quote:

Are you doing it for you or to become someone's ideal?


To a degree i'm doing it for everyone involved. As i am there is no way i can hold a healthy relationship. By working on bringing down the walls i will not only be helping myself but i will be working my way towards a healthy relationship.

quote:

What kind of resolve do you have?

 
I am 100% committed to resolving my issues.

quote:

Are they really issues that need to be changed? ( Major life impactors versus leaving the toilet seat up)

 
Yes they are major issues.

quote:

How many times have you come to this threshold and it was too hard, too painful?

 
Maybe once or twice but i feel that i just wasn't ready then or that i was not with the right person to start working on getting those walls down. When i was finally ready i was not with someone who was interested enough in me to want to help me with my walls.

quote:

Are these things really an issue or someone's perception that they are?

 
They really are an issue for me. I cannot answer for Sir as to whether they are an issue for Him.
 

quote:

How will this work change life as you know it now, for the better? For the worse?

 
I can't see any downfalls to working on bringing down my walls other than the possibility that the realstionship may not work and i may get hurt. However i will never regret the work done on my walls as i know that if the relationship ends it will not be in a way that will damage me or cause my walls to be built back up. How do i know that? I just do

quote:

Are you prepared for solid selfspeak if you backslide?

 
I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this. If i'm reading it right then yes i am prepared to reowrk what i may backslide on.

quote:

What are you prepared to deny yourself until you feel you are better able to face, cope, accept the realities?

 
The only things i will have to deny myself are negative things. Things like running away when it becomes hard, saying what i think the other person wants to hear, hiding from realities etc.




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RE: Bulldoze it or brick by brick? - 3/5/2009 8:25:13 AM   
InTonguesslave


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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation
 I've built these walls and everytime i come across a 'problem' i floop and then have to tell myself that Sir is not any of my previous partners. And therefore presuming He will react in the same way or do the same things as previous partners didis not only highly unfair, but more than likely completely wrong.
 







i know!  - im the same - it takes me a bit of time to reorganise my thought processes too.  standing still long enough to filter things and listen and realise that the support and pressure to keep moving in the preferred direction is consistant and genuine.

believe me babe, if i can do it, so can you - im a great one for running off to the woods and talking to the fairies in there - you think im joking - im not...

< Message edited by InTonguesslave -- 3/5/2009 8:26:33 AM >

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RE: Bulldoze it or brick by brick? - 3/5/2009 8:36:38 AM   
missturbation


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quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslave

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation
 I've built these walls and everytime i come across a 'problem' i floop and then have to tell myself that Sir is not any of my previous partners. And therefore presuming He will react in the same way or do the same things as previous partners didis not only highly unfair, but more than likely completely wrong.
 







i know!  - im the same - it takes me a bit of time to reorganise my thought processes too.  standing still long enough to filter things and listen and realise that the support and pressure to keep moving in the preferred direction is consistant and genuine.

believe me babe, if i can do it, so can you - im a great one for running off to the woods and talking to the fairies in there - you think im joking - im not...


Lol i rant to my smelly dog. sometimes he's supportive and looks at me so kindly with huge eyes and then others he sighs, gets up and walks off.
 

 

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What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

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RE: Bulldoze it or brick by brick? - 3/5/2009 9:16:22 AM   
CatdeMedici


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Status: offline 		I'm proud of you, it sounds like you are digging for the long haul--just be careful of over analyzing, we can analyze ourselves in, then out, then in, then out --so when you get to the point that something is acceptable, comfortable and happy--move on.

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RE: Bulldoze it or brick by brick? - 3/5/2009 9:28:58 AM   
gypsygrl


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Status: offline 		You could always take a passive approach.  It takes a lot to maintain a wall--you have to constantly keep reinforcing it, replacing bricks that are crumbling, covering over cracks with fresh mortar etc.  So, just stop maintaining the wall/s.  Let nature take its course, and the walls will decay by themselves and eventually fall down.

Sometimes, not doing much of anything is not only the most effective thing to do, but the hardest. 

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RE: Bulldoze it or brick by brick? - 3/5/2009 11:13:09 AM   
DavanKael


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Status: offline 		Hi, missturbation----
It sounds as if you are really committed to making change and having read lots of your posts on here across the time I've been on boards, you seem to be a relatively straight shooter. 
Have you considered sitting down with a professional and stratifying the issues that you wish to approach and developing a gameplan? 
Not taking anything away from the fabulous folks on here but you may wish to put a bunch on the table in detail and have someone right there to help you sift through it and figure out what's first, second, and so on. 
Sending good thoughts,
  Davan

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RE: Bulldoze it or brick by brick? - 3/5/2009 11:58:24 AM   
CreativeDominant


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Status: offline 		Tis not an easy thing.  When I went into counseling during the disintegration of my marriage, I was mainly looking for that therapist that would tell me how right I had  been in everything all along.  ~wry smile~  What a dumbass I was.  Luckily for me, I found one who looked me right in the eye and told me that if I really thought I was so right, then I had no reason at all to be there...I didn't need verification to prove what I truly believed.  He ticked me off but I'd already paid for the session and so...I stayed.  I was still with him a year later as the marriage ended but in that time, I had begun to not only find out where I'd been wrong in my marriage but what sorts of things had led me to where I was in my life.  He had...and has...this amazing capacity to not only pull one brick away but to keep another from falling too fast while still making it ready to go.  He also has this ability to make you see that though there might be two or three or four or more bricks, many of those bricks are composed of some of the same elements as other bricks.  In seeing that, some of the bricks come down easier than those that are built of completely different materials but even the bricks built of differing materials also have counterparts. 

Find someone to guide you on this journey.  Don't lay it on a dominant friend or a submissive friend to help you unless they have counseling experience and credentials.  Good-intentioned as our friends can be and as valuable as their insights can sometimes be, if you know within yourself that this is going to be a long process and an important one for you to undertake, then call on professionals.

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RE: Bulldoze it or brick by brick? - 3/5/2009 12:36:43 PM   
IronBear


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Status: offline 		Something not involved with BDSM but with other lifestyles as found in Lodges and well trained Covens, shows that it is not so hard to tear down a wall someone has built up. Hiowever unless you have a monestry or similar for the person to live at with you and who ever else so they are protected, there is a huge danger of causing psychological issues as that person without their protective wall is less able to cope with daily living. Once it is pulled dowwn, then a new wall needs to be built slowley piece by piece. Worst senario id seen with some cults where they destroy the foundations and use what is oft refered to as brain washing to build a "new" person.

A safer way is to look at the wall and with the person's help and input halp them design a new wall which is in effect the person they want to become and then slowley removing the old wall and replacing each brick as it is removed or relocating it to a more appropriate place.. Sounds simple which in effect it is as long as there a clear picture of the end resuilt which gives the person better controls and choices as well as a better understanding of themselves..

This is the shortened version because I find it impossible to condense the tests I use for such a process from over 500 pages to a couple of paragraphs..


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RE: Bulldoze it or brick by brick? - 3/5/2009 4:18:36 PM   
domiguy


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Status: offline 		Sugar Walls by Sheena Easton?

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RE: Bulldoze it or brick by brick? - 3/5/2009 7:51:07 PM   
heartcream


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From: Psychoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop
Status: offline 		I didnt read any of the replies-- it doesnt matter what you tell yourself you are going to do, knock down walls, go brick by brick, there is a process and it is going to take whatever it is going to take. You cannot go faster than your own speed. You can 'decide' to not blah blah blah any more but until the deepest aspects are able to come to the light of awareness, truly dealt with, accepted, forgiven and loved unconditionally it will continue to be an issue, either in the form you have been accustomed to seeing symptons act out, or they will manifest in other ones.

In my opinion the most important thing to begin is to love ourselves the way we are, no matter what is going on, how it feels, how it looks. This is a really good focus point because any guilt motivated promises, threats are pretty much flattened by the real attempt to love the self. It sounds hoaky, corny but it is the steak and potatoes of real growth these days as far as I can see.

The thing is not to forgive oneself for whatever the behavior is but to learn how to accept the behavior as a real part of the individual's process. A different perspective but a vital differentiation with huge growth components rushing in to help one along their way.

Self-love, that is where to put your best effort forward I would say.

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