Can I think of Him as my Master even if we dont have sex?

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Can I think of Him as my Master even if we dont have sex? - 1/21/2006 9:31:09 PM

BittersweetLila

Posts: 27
Joined: 6/30/2005
Status: offline

There is a man I talk to everyday. He has been my teacher and spiritual advisor for the past two years. His teaching and lessons have become the basis of my life. He has strict rules, which I follow exactly, because if I don't I am not allowed to be his student. He teaches me hatha yoga like no other teacher I've ever had -- nice and slow and full of long beautifully enforced body stretches. He takes me physically to feeling like I've been turned inside out. He teaches me how to meditate and during the meditations we are not allowed to move. We must sit absolutely still and breathe in and out when he tells us to. This experience is profound for me, and at times during these sessions I find myself floating in a mixture of sacred and erotic spiritual ecstasy.
My question is can I live my life using Him as my Master even if He doesn't know that I think of him that way? Does this make sense? Do you have to have actual sex with your Master, or can you simply live to serve the will of a Master by sheer obedience and submission? This man is extremely ethical and would never have actual sex with me. Plus I am in a vanilla relationship myself and do not plan to leave it. But I feel in my heart that this man is my Master. Am I nuts? I feel sometimes that this man can read and control my mind to such a degree, this knowledge and my complete submission to His control has brought me to actual orgasm during meditation (I can't tell anymore where the sexual and the spiritual separate) more than any actual mundane act of sexual intercourse might be. He touches me only with His mind and I come.

Post #: 1

RE: Can I think of Him as my Master even if we dont hav... - 1/22/2006 12:26:41 AM

RiotGirl

Posts: 3149
Status: offline

nah you're not nuts and yeah i think its okay to feel that way. my Master isnt my Master cos we have sex. Quite the contrary m'dear we rarely have it. LOL

really though, i chalk Masters and stuff up to whether they HAVE mastered you. Have you, or do you feel like he's Mastered you? If so.. then feel free. Though really hon its only okay if you feel its okay. Though i imagine it doesnt feel okay, that it feels some how wrong, which is why you are here, seeking confirmation that it is. But no matter what anyone says, you will feel the way you do.

you could think of him as your God. You could think of him as you're purple element if you wanted too. Get the point? But i gave you my definition of Masterliness and why one might call a Master Master for you to use in your own decisions.

hope it helps

(in reply to BittersweetLila)

Post #: 2

RE: Can I think of Him as my Master even if we dont hav... - 1/22/2006 12:34:55 AM

CmotDribbler

Posts: 83
Joined: 1/17/2006
From: canada
Status: offline

I've been with my Kitten for a year in less than 3 weks.
we have yet to have sex.

_____________________________

"Better that I devote myself to studying the Other great mystery of the universe; women!"
Doc. Emit Brown

(in reply to BittersweetLila)

Post #: 3

RE: Can I think of Him as my Master even if we dont hav... - 1/22/2006 12:43:01 AM

Petruchio

Posts: 1615
Joined: 2/6/2005
Status: offline

You've asked two different questions.

1. Can you have a master/sub relationship without sex?

I suppose so, but it would be less interesting.

2. Is a teaching relationship a mastery situation?

I'd say so, but obviously in a different context from BDSM.

(in reply to BittersweetLila)

Post #: 4

RE: Can I think of Him as my Master even if we dont hav... - 1/22/2006 2:50:31 AM

KatyLied

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

quote:

can you simply live to serve the will of a Master by sheer obedience and submission? Do you have to have actual sex with your Master

Yes, of course you can be a slave without the element of sex.
Sex is not the only thing that defines a M/s relationship.
There are slaves that provide services that have nothing to do with sex.

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to BittersweetLila)

Post #: 5

RE: Can I think of Him as my Master even if we dont hav... - 1/22/2006 4:00:30 AM

Jasmyn

Posts: 1234
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: New Zealand
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Petruchio
1. Can you have a master/sub relationship without sex?

I suppose so, but it would be less interesting.

Less interesting to you... mindblowingly interesting to others.

_____________________________

quote:

"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.

Visit My Website

(in reply to Petruchio)

Post #: 6

RE: Can I think of Him as my Master even if we dont hav... - 1/22/2006 6:33:03 AM

MstrssPassion

Posts: 2444
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: West Palm Beach, FL
Status: offline

quote:

BittersweetLila: Do you have to have actual sex with your Master, or can you simply live to serve the will of a Master by sheer obedience and submission?

Sex has nothing to do with validating surrender. It is completely normal to have a dominant/submissive-master/slave relationship that completely abstains from intercourse.

quote:

BittersweetLila: My question is can I live my life using Him as my Master even if He doesn't know that I think of him that way?

It is of my opinion that a master must accept your surrender, your offer to submit to him/her. So by keeping this offer of your obedience & submission a secret (in your own mind) you have not received his acceptance, thus you are not his submissive. (keep in mind the word consent... did he consent to your offer of submission?)

You will only know true submission when both people are aware of it, accept it & live it.

_____________________________

MstrssPassion

(in reply to BittersweetLila)

Post #: 7

RE: Can I think of Him as my Master even if we dont hav... - 1/22/2006 7:20:42 AM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

I'm seeing two questions here:

He is your spiritual guide and teacher in a number of areas. Can you call him Master even if he doesn't know that you think of him that way?

Yes, with many areas such people are often refered to as Master by the one/s thay are teaching and guiding. The chances are that in his wisdom, he probablt knows how you think of him but is not saying anything for his own reasons.

Can you call him Master even though you dont have sex?

Again yes. Sex is not the be all and end all. It is part of some relationships and certainly can bring people closer together, but it is not essential.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to MstrssPassion)

Post #: 8

RE: Can I think of Him as my Master even if we dont hav... - 1/22/2006 7:56:48 AM

MHOO314

Posts: 3628
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline

sex is not the issue, it is if he acknowledges that He is Master, remember the dynamic is a dance of the T/two, not a soliloquy for one.

_____________________________

SLUTS: Southern Ladies Under Tremendous Stress...

Mistress Hathor

(in reply to BittersweetLila)

Post #: 9

RE: Can I think of Him as my Master even if we dont hav... - 1/22/2006 8:09:40 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

My question is can I live my life using Him as my Master even if He doesn't know that I think of him that way?

sure you can live your life thinking of him as your Master...but he can't really be your Master without knowing that he is and making that decision for himself. If what you are asking is if by just thinking of him as your Master, does that make a Master/slave relationship....no it does not in my opinion.

quote:

Do you have to have actual sex with your Master

No

quote:

can you simply live to serve the will of a Master by sheer obedience and submission?

Yes, but is that what you are doing?...or are you simply taking from him what you can use? Are you serving his will or gleaning the rewards of his mentoring?

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to BittersweetLila)

Post #: 10

RE: Can I think of Him as my Master even if we dont hav... - 1/22/2006 8:10:36 AM

Wildfleurs

Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BittersweetLila

There is a man I talk to everyday. He has been my teacher and spiritual advisor for the past two years. His teaching and lessons have become the basis of my life. He has strict rules, which I follow exactly, because if I don't I am not allowed to be his student. He teaches me hatha yoga like no other teacher I've ever had -- nice and slow and full of long beautifully enforced body stretches. He takes me physically to feeling like I've been turned inside out. He teaches me how to meditate and during the meditations we are not allowed to move. We must sit absolutely still and breathe in and out when he tells us to. This experience is profound for me, and at times during these sessions I find myself floating in a mixture of sacred and erotic spiritual ecstasy.
My question is can I live my life using Him as my Master even if He doesn't know that I think of him that way? Does this make sense? Do you have to have actual sex with your Master, or can you simply live to serve the will of a Master by sheer obedience and submission? This man is extremely ethical and would never have actual sex with me. Plus I am in a vanilla relationship myself and do not plan to leave it. But I feel in my heart that this man is my Master. Am I nuts? I feel sometimes that this man can read and control my mind to such a degree, this knowledge and my complete submission to His control has brought me to actual orgasm during meditation (I can't tell anymore where the sexual and the spiritual separate) more than any actual mundane act of sexual intercourse might be. He touches me only with His mind and I come.

I don't consider it ethical to put a position on someone who isn't even aware you are doing it or thinking of them your way. If he is your yoga teacher and spiritual advisor that's very different than owning you (which to me is what a master/mistress/owner is).

Perhaps you are craving submission to the point that you are kind of reading things into this situation (and perhaps overreaching)?

C~

_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The heart of it all - http://www.wildfleurs.com
~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

(in reply to BittersweetLila)

Post #: 11

RE: Can I think of Him as my Master even if we dont hav... - 1/22/2006 8:12:59 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

sex is not the issue, it is if he acknowledges that He is Master, remember the dynamic is a dance of the T/two, not a soliloquy for one.

Exactly

< Message edited by mistoferin -- 1/22/2006 8:14:12 AM >

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to MHOO314)

Post #: 12

RE: Can I think of Him as my Master even if we dont hav... - 1/22/2006 9:43:37 AM

BittersweetLila

Posts: 27
Joined: 6/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

It is of my opinion that a master must accept your surrender, your offer to submit to him/her. So by keeping this offer of your obedience & submission a secret (in your own mind) you have not received his acceptance, thus you are not his submissive. (keep in mind the word consent... did he consent to your offer of submission?)

He knows.

He has one other "student" besides me (one male student and me -- I'm a girl). Both of us are married to other people but completely devoted to this man. The deal is complete submission to his teachings. He doesn't have sex with either one of us. Yet, as I said earlier, he is capable of orchestrating the most awesomely fulfilling mindfuck experiences. Almost in a supernatural way. He brings me to a climax place without any actual physical contact.

He knows it.
I am totally and completely His.

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 13

RE: Can I think of Him as my Master even if we dont hav... - 1/22/2006 10:12:36 AM

perverseangelic

Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline

To tell the truth, I think you owe it to your vanilla partner to tell him/her the same things you told us. While I fully believe in the ability of an individual to be commitment to multiple individuals, I think it's responsible and considerate to inform all parties of what's going on, so they have a choice as well.

I appologize for the unsolicited advice, but consdering the depth of comittment which you're describing to this individual, I believe your vanilla parnter has a right to know that he/she is sharing your affection/devotion/etc.

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to BittersweetLila)

Post #: 14

RE: Can I think of Him as my Master even if we dont hav... - 1/22/2006 6:22:47 PM

wolffeathers

Posts: 315
Joined: 8/6/2005
From: Clearwater
Status: offline

quote:

My question is can I live my life using Him as my Master even if He doesn't know that I think of him that way? Does this make sense?

This is the line I have problems with.

If he is not being a Master to you, then he is not your Master.

I would say, talk to him.

If he says yes, then do so.

If he says no, then don't call him your Master.

_____________________________

It's my way or the highway. Just happens that the highway is on my way.

~Master Wolf

(in reply to BittersweetLila)

Post #: 15

RE: Can I think of Him as my Master even if we dont hav... - 1/22/2006 6:26:44 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BittersweetLila
My question is can I live my life using Him as my Master even if He doesn't know that I think of him that way?

The fact that youa re writing this here is a "no" for me. You WANT to tell him. NOT telling him means you will eventually become frustrated and stagnant.

quote:

Do you have to have actual sex with your Master, or can you simply live to serve the will of a Master by sheer obedience and submission?

My former owner never had sex with me. But what you are suggesting is to try and be this mans slave without asking him first. It would be a horribly bad case of projection- as bad as getting a crush on a college professor.

quote:

Plus I am in a vanilla relationship myself and do not plan to leave it. But I feel in my heart that this man is my Master. Am I nuts?

No you're just frustrated and letting your fantasy life take control.

quote:

I feel sometimes that this man can read and control my mind to such a degree, this knowledge and my complete submission to His control has brought me to actual orgasm during meditation (I can't tell anymore where the sexual and the spiritual separate) more than any actual mundane act of sexual intercourse might be. He touches me only with His mind and I come.

You're addicted to this one part which you have allowed to take over good judgement. You're seeing what you want to see. It won't work long term unless you end the vanilla relationship and come clean to the teacher. And even then the teacher might rightfully say no.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to BittersweetLila)

Post #: 16

RE: Can I think of Him as my Master even if we dont hav... - 1/23/2006 1:04:42 AM

slavejali

Posts: 2918
Status: offline

Sounds like a classic Master/student Guru/disciple relationship to me - from what you have said, sure he is your Master.

His Kundalini is probably awake to some degree and that is why you have those experiences while your sitting together.

(in reply to BittersweetLila)

Post #: 17

RE: Can I think of Him as my Master even if we dont hav... - 1/23/2006 2:38:18 AM

NeedToUseYou

Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline

Question: How can you, as you stated "I am totally and completely His.", regards to your teacher, and see him as your master. And at the same time be, from the standard plain jane marriage vows agreed to "Will you love him, honor him, comfort him, and keep him in sickness and in health; forsaking all others, be true to him as long as you both shall live? (I will)." to your husband

Is your husband into being married to a woman who is more commited to another man than to himself. "I am totally and completely His." Is he even aware that you've completely given yourself to someone else except for vaginal sex. If the answer is no well, my opinion would be you need to talk this out with your husband honestly, or get a divorce. As this is lying by omission, as you've stated to us, your loyalty is to your teacher. I think it your obligation out of respect, to inform your husband. To do otherwise is a deep moral lapse of character.

Sorry, for sounding harsh, but this doesn't sound like a good situation to me.

(in reply to BittersweetLila)

Post #: 18

RE: Can I think of Him as my Master even if we dont hav... - 1/23/2006 5:55:27 AM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali

Sounds like a classic Master/student Guru/disciple relationship to me - from what you have said, sure he is your Master.

His Kundalini is probably awake to some degree and that is why you have those experiences while your sitting together.

Excelent reply you hit the nail right on the head lass.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to slavejali)

Post #: 19

RE: Can I think of Him as my Master even if we dont hav... - 1/23/2006 6:08:21 AM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

Question: How can you, as you stated "I am totally and completely His.", regards to your teacher, and see him as your master. And at the same time be, from the standard plain jane marriage vows agreed to "Will you love him, honor him, comfort him, and keep him in sickness and in health; forsaking all others, be true to him as long as you both shall live? (I will)." to your husband

Is your husband into being married to a woman who is more commited to another man than to himself. "I am totally and completely His." Is he even aware that you've completely given yourself to someone else except for vaginal sex. If the answer is no well, my opinion would be you need to talk this out with your husband honestly, or get a divorce. As this is lying by omission, as you've stated to us, your loyalty is to your teacher. I think it your obligation out of respect, to inform your husband. To do otherwise is a deep moral lapse of character.

Sorry, for sounding harsh, but this doesn't sound like a good situation to me.

I'll agree with the general thrust of what you are saying. However I'm wondering if you have inside information about the husbamd and wife as a couple. Were they married under the Christian banner? If so then the "Will you love him, honor him, comfort him, and keep him in sickness and in health; forsaking all others, be true to him as long as you both shall live?" is more than likely fitting. If not however, you may like to remember that other faiths dont have such clauses (which sound more like a slave contract to me anyway which is why I never used it in my own "Official" church wedding). In all the Handfastings I have officiated at such sentiments were never expressed. I suspect other faiths have vows which reflect their own cultures such as I understand that a Muslim may have up to seven (7) wives. TRhus the first part of your argument has no value except when it applies to a specific group of people.

I guess that the second half of your statement sticks in my throat personally simply from the perspective that I will not allow others to thrust their morality upon me, I have my own set of codes and ethics which have nothing to do with the Judeo-christian belief system and those morals formed by it's follows.... But hey I'm an A-Moral, evil bastard

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)

Post #: 20

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