RE: Stem Cell Research...your thoughts???

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

RE: Stem Cell Research...your thoughts???

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Stem Cell Research...your thoughts???

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 4 5 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Stem Cell Research...your thoughts??? - 3/9/2009 8:47:49 AM

FullCircle

Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
Status: offline

Stem cell research is moving onto direct programming methods that do away with the need for embryos altogether by reprogramming other adult cells with genes. People will always throw up some objection or other regarding life sciences though. I feel they are more fearful of people discovering the origins of life creation than the rights of unborn this thats. People being able to definitively demonstrate the workings of their god would take away the ignorance they depend on to spread their ethos of how people should live their lives. Just like people once upon a time used to worship the rising and setting of the sun/moon but now they realise to spend time worshipping lumps of rock floating about in space is a waste of a perfectly good afternoon. They don't want people to understand the mysticisms of their god, they want an element of magic to make people cling to hope of a life ever after.

IMHO.

_____________________________

∞ ﮒuקּƹɼ ƾɛϰưϫԼ Ƨωιϯϲћ.

(in reply to kittinSol)

Post #: 21

RE: Stem Cell Research...your thoughts??? - 3/9/2009 8:49:12 AM

ryssa

Posts: 501
Joined: 8/20/2006
Status: offline

removed

< Message edited by ryssa -- 3/9/2009 9:23:34 AM >

(in reply to Maya2001)

Post #: 22

RE: Stem Cell Research...your thoughts??? - 3/9/2009 8:51:50 AM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

I think the Republican leadership made a big mistake and failed to separate the fanatical support of the religious right from middle America and its fear and anger over 911.

Now that the fear has subsided and America is getting the upper hand in Iraq and a clear plan is developing in Afghanistan the Republicans are finding there is no majority support for the views of fanatics.

They were too slow to move back to the middle and they are suffering because of it. Until they realize war and economics are far more important to America than stem cell research and abortion they will remain the minority party.
Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 3/9/2009 8:57:05 AM >

(in reply to lronitulstahp)

Post #: 23

RE: Stem Cell Research...your thoughts??? - 3/9/2009 8:57:18 AM

MrRodgers

Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim

The problem is liberal left fanatics obfuscate the fact that an embryo is a complete human being, not as defined by religious fanatics but rather as defined by our best and brighest scientists, therefore sucking out stem-cells therefrom is indeed the same as abortion...murdering a hapless human being. BTW: The results of those eight years of embryonic stem-cell research in foreign countries is what, MarsBonFire, precisely? And how many hapless human beings were murdered to get those results?

This why we need a constitutional amendment to establish the 'constitutional' (legal) beginning of life so all of you medicos here correct me if I am wrong but...

An embryo could be described as any fertilized egg and the question becomes...do we confer upon it a 'constitutional right' to be born ? If so, doesn't the legal presumption become that we do also confer upon that embryo a right to life ? AND if so...do we confer upon it a 'right' to food clothing and shelter...the natural necessities of life ?

(BTW, most of the embryos banned for research to my knowledge...were destroyed anyway) True ?

That is the ultimate question on abortion for the 'right-to-lifers' and for society to collectively undertake and answer or are we consigned to simply let this serve as a partisan debate...forever ?

As for what has been achieved in these last 8 years is 8 more years of achievement than there otherwise would have been...without it.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 3/9/2009 9:02:47 AM >

(in reply to RacerJim)

Post #: 24

RE: Stem Cell Research...your thoughts??? - 3/9/2009 9:11:03 AM

FullCircle

Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
Status: offline

ok Mr Rodgers the only problem I have with clothing an embryo is the fact we'll need to invent some more shoe sizes.

_____________________________

∞ ﮒuקּƹɼ ƾɛϰưϫԼ Ƨωιϯϲћ.

(in reply to MrRodgers)

Post #: 25

RE: Stem Cell Research...your thoughts? - 3/9/2009 9:22:34 AM

MarcEsadrian

Posts: 852
Joined: 8/24/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp
WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama is ending former President George W. Bush's limits on using federal dollars for embryonic stem cell research, with advisers calling the move a clear signal that science—not political ideology—will guide the administration.

Or rather, in this case, science and not religious ideology will guide the new administration.

It's good to see scientific research can resume unfettered. I'm hopeful the voice of science will no longer be muzzled in favor of political interest as well.

(in reply to lronitulstahp)

Post #: 26

RE: Stem Cell Research...your thoughts??? - 3/9/2009 9:27:41 AM

VirginPotty

Posts: 11624
Joined: 7/16/2008
From: Virginville
Status: offline

http://www.allaboutpopularissues.org/pros-and-cons-of-stem-cell-research.htm

_____________________________

Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.

(in reply to Maya2001)

Post #: 27

RE: Stem Cell Research...your thoughts??? - 3/9/2009 9:31:04 AM

MasterShake69

Posts: 752
Joined: 11/30/2005
Status: offline

yes nomatter what the consequences...just because science can do something they should.

http://www.purefood.org/Patent/genebabies.cfm

Gene Engineers Promote Eugenics & Designer Babies
The New Eugenics: The Case Against Genetically Modified Humans By Marcy Darnovsky

At the cusp of dot-com frenzy and the biotech century, a
group of influential scientists and pundits has begun
zealously promoting a new bio-engineered utopia. In the
world of their visionary fervor, parents will strive to
afford the latest genetic "improvements" for their children.
According to the advocates of this human future (or, as some
term it, "post-human" future), the exercise of consumer
preferences for offspring options will be the prelude to a
grand achievement: the technological control of human
evolution.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Politicians can temporarily stand in the way of progress, but in the end scientific research will always win. This is a progress that should never have been halted: shame on those who stood in the path of potentially life-saving science for eight years, and who chose to throw all those frozen embryos on the trash heap.

(in reply to kittinSol)

Post #: 28

RE: Stem Cell Research...your thoughts??? - 3/9/2009 9:37:50 AM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
Status: offline

Of course, eugenism is SUCH a popular solution to contemporary problems, with today's pinko commie lame ass elites

.

_____________________________

(in reply to MasterShake69)

Post #: 29

RE: Stem Cell Research...your thoughts??? - 3/9/2009 9:51:25 AM

samboct

Posts: 1817
Joined: 1/17/2007
Status: offline

"If they want to donate embryo's or eggs to seed in a petrie dish, be my guest. But now hundreds of millions of dollars will be diverted away from adult stem cell research which HAS in fact shown potential and many people whose medical issues might be solved will have to wait for another day."

Umm- no. The process that we're trying to learn about is differentiation. How do embryonic cells which are pretty much all the same become specialized? How does the differentiation into nerve cells, muscle cells, etc. occur? While this process happens in both embryos and in adults, it's clear that control of the process is going to be different in embryonic cells and in adult cells. By restricting research to only one type of stem cell you've arbitrarily restricted your knowledge of this differentiation process.

Calls for using both adult stem cells and embryonic stem cells in research have been reported in Science for several years. It's kind of crazy to restrict research in one type of these cells (embryonic cells) that might hold the key to deeper understanding of this process. Since it's not a well understood process, the restriction strikes most scientists as arbitrary and akin to tying one hand up. On this board, the idea of bondage might be exciting to some- but this type of bondage is just annoying to scientists- and accomplishes no laudatory goals.

Furthermore- science generally makes progress by serendipity. There's a lot of cross fertilization in the field, which means that insights in one area of research can transform other areas. We don't know what we don't know in this field yet- so who knows what's waiting to be discovered? Yes, it's possible that we don't need embryonic cells to develop treatments- but at a minimum learning about the distinction between embryonic and adult stem cells will likely prove extremely illuminating. I'll bet the field makes more progress in the next 2 years than it did in the past 8.

Summary- Bush's restriction was political. Obama's lifting of the ban makes excellent sense from a science viewpoint- and from a political calculus, pisses off the far right wingers and probably doesn't mean much to the rest of folks. But its the right move....

Sam

(in reply to MasterShake69)

Post #: 30

RE: Stem Cell Research...your thoughts??? - 3/9/2009 9:57:39 AM

MrRodgers

Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

ok Mr Rodgers the only problem I have with clothing an embryo is the fact we'll need to invent some more shoe sizes.

Oh yes, we humans are all about our shoes, aren't we ? Well in the first stages, we don't need any as we live on in that 'miracle mucous' but later on...yes. Trouble is, even if after a I think, a few months or even weeks and even if they fit...how do we get them on ?

(in reply to FullCircle)

Post #: 31

RE: Stem Cell Research...your thoughts??? - 3/9/2009 10:03:46 AM

FullCircle

Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
Status: offline

We would have invented transporters by then and will be able to dematerialise them and re-materialise them in the womb I trust.

_____________________________

∞ ﮒuקּƹɼ ƾɛϰưϫԼ Ƨωιϯϲћ.

(in reply to MrRodgers)

Post #: 32

RE: Stem Cell Research...your thoughts??? - 3/9/2009 10:12:37 AM

MasterShake69

Posts: 752
Joined: 11/30/2005
Status: offline

Well if you believe in the bible like Obama does....shouldn’t he also believe the same exact thing ;)
unless he doesn’t really believe in the bible ;)
Maybe Obama believes in the flying spaghetti monster.

quote:

ORIGINAL: housesub4you

I do not believe idology should stand n the way of science. It is sad that in the year 2009 there are still people who believe that Dinosars waked the earth with man. One of them even became President.

(in reply to housesub4you)

Post #: 33

RE: Stem Cell Research...your thoughts??? - 3/9/2009 10:37:26 AM

FullCircle

Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterShake69

yes nomatter what the consequences...just because science can do something they should.

http://www.purefood.org/Patent/genebabies.cfm

Gene Engineers Promote Eugenics & Designer Babies
The New Eugenics: The Case Against Genetically Modified Humans By Marcy Darnovsky

At the cusp of dot-com frenzy and the biotech century, a
group of influential scientists and pundits has begun
zealously promoting a new bio-engineered utopia. In the
world of their visionary fervor, parents will strive to
afford the latest genetic "improvements" for their children.
According to the advocates of this human future (or, as some
term it, "post-human" future), the exercise of consumer
preferences for offspring options will be the prelude to a
grand achievement: the technological control of human
evolution.

Designer babies will never happen because that in effect would reduce the gene pool and that is never a good thing. What people tend to forget is that genes interact to form strengths and weaknesses and are seldom indicators of strengths and weaknesses on their own. Not often you can say with 100% confidence "That is a gene that causes cancer we can do without that." The truth is it may be linked to cancer but is not a problem if not in the presence of other combinations of genes. The danger is you are eliminating things without understanding the bigger picture. The bigger picture may be that this gene is required at a key point in time for development and without it you'll end up with far worse effects.

Designer babies never going to happen with knowledge as limited as it is now.

_____________________________

∞ ﮒuקּƹɼ ƾɛϰưϫԼ Ƨωιϯϲћ.

(in reply to MasterShake69)

Post #: 34

RE: Stem Cell Research...your thoughts??? - 3/9/2009 10:51:42 AM

samboct

Posts: 1817
Joined: 1/17/2007
Status: offline

Full Circle

I wish....but check this story out-http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/feb/09022707.html

There are already clinics offering selection of sex, eye color, and hair color, so designer babies have already started.

Academic achievement is not dependent on a single gene, but I don't know how long its going to be before parents begin requesting certain IQ ranges- or the practice gets banned.

Sam

(in reply to FullCircle)

Post #: 35

RE: Stem Cell Research...your thoughts??? - 3/9/2009 11:08:32 AM

FullCircle

Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
Status: offline

I think you're allowed to select sex here if you have other children of the same sex already but want balance. I don't agree with it, it is still limiting the gene pool and only after a long period of time will we see the damaging effects of it. The report doesn't really mention hair colour eye colour etc. I think that is more controversial and was what I was referring to. IVF has always been a mathematical exercise of stacking the odds in your favour hence why a lot of IVF patients end up with twins etc. some would argue selecting each specific embryo is just part of that process but I think it has more far reaching effects and should be left to random chance. Patterns and trends when created by humans always become unsustainable. There is something divine about randomness and not being able to spot a pattern no matter how hard you look; a rock face compared to a vertical elevation of building cladding.

< Message edited by FullCircle -- 3/9/2009 11:09:01 AM >

_____________________________

∞ ﮒuקּƹɼ ƾɛϰưϫԼ Ƨωιϯϲћ.

(in reply to samboct)

Post #: 36

RE: Stem Cell Research...your thoughts??? - 3/9/2009 11:19:12 AM

samboct

Posts: 1817
Joined: 1/17/2007
Status: offline

" The CNN report focused on the success of the Fertility Institutes, a private artificial reproduction facility in Los Angeles that advertises "gender selection" by pre-implantation genetic diagnosis of already created embryos, and claims a nearly 100 per cent "success rate." The facility also claims to be the first to offer the "pending availability" of genetic tests to pre-determine the eye color, skin and hair color, and "cancer tendency" of embryos created in the lab. "

Given the falling costs of genetic testing and the fact that this company is talking about traits that are determined by one or two genes, I find their plans to offer such testing quite possible.

Sam

(in reply to FullCircle)

Post #: 37

RE: Stem Cell Research...your thoughts??? - 3/9/2009 11:37:00 AM

FullCircle

Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
Status: offline

Oh well there goes the neighbourhood.

A bit depressing if that's true.

but....

Don't lose sight of the fact you are selecting from combinations that are possible in the first place given an equal chance. Between the two parents the mix of characteristics to choose from will be predetermined before the selection is made. Kind of interesting because we are talking about probability of occurrence and there is nothing to suggest there wouldn't be a greater number of viable healthy combinations of genes than imperfect combinations.
I'm still squeamish about it though, you crazy Americans

For the uniqueness of society very grey indeed.

< Message edited by FullCircle -- 3/9/2009 11:49:31 AM >

_____________________________

∞ ﮒuקּƹɼ ƾɛϰưϫԼ Ƨωιϯϲћ.

(in reply to samboct)

Post #: 38

RE: Stem Cell Research...your thoughts??? - 3/9/2009 11:40:39 AM

aravain

Posts: 1211
Joined: 8/26/2008
Status: offline

~FR~

I've got nothing against testing for that stuff (and even rejecting an embryo based on the results), but I *really* don't want a Gattica world (though I'm sure I spelled it wrong) where genetic engineering is commonplace.

(in reply to FullCircle)

Post #: 39

RE: Stem Cell Research...your thoughts??? - 3/9/2009 11:53:13 AM

FullCircle

Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
Status: offline

I suppose it would be more of a problem if everyone could do it due to cost and if we were all going for the same features.

_____________________________

∞ ﮒuקּƹɼ ƾɛϰưϫԼ Ƨωιϯϲћ.

(in reply to aravain)

Post #: 40

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 4 5 next > >>

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Stem Cell Research...your thoughts???

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 4 5 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.078