RE: Stem Cell Research...your thoughts???

RE: Stem Cell Research...your thoughts??? (Full Version)

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yourdarkdesire -> RE: Stem Cell Research...your thoughts??? (3/9/2009 3:35:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Archer Overall I am for stem cell research, but I am torn on the embrionic aspect, Just for those of you not in the loop, within the last few weeks the University of Caglary, in (calgary Alberta Canadag) had achieved amazing results in takin ADULT SKIN CELLS and somehow reverting them to STEM CELLS. If they can refine this process - think about all the moral and ethical disputes that will instantly fall by the way side. We are on the edge of several medical breakthroughs - and they need our help and support.

DomKen -> RE: Stem Cell Research...your thoughts??? (3/9/2009 3:45:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Evility quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Evility In principle I did not agree with President Bush when he banned federal funds from being used for stem cell research. During the public debate I recall reading/hearing a comment from a pro stem cell research advocate - I think it may actually have been Christopher Reeve - who said that the religious folks deserved no say in the debate which I felt was wrong. I'm not a religious man but to deny one group a voice on an issue due to some phony separation of church and state argument was nonsense. Based on that argument alone while I disagreed with Bush the ban didn't really bother me much because attitudes like that really piss me off. Why should one person's or group's spiritual beliefs be the basis for restricting the activities of others? Should Christian Scientists be able to stop all federal funding of new surgical techniques? My point was that *everyone* deserved a voice in the debate - regardless of any political or religious affiliation they might hold. It's nice to see that you have no problem selectively removing opposing viewpoints from the table. Welkome to Amerika. So because I ask a pertinent question I'm some sort of authoritarian? Why not answer the questions I asked rather than resorting to ad hominen to avoid examining your position.

corysub -> RE: Stem Cell Research...your thoughts??? (3/9/2009 4:07:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub I think the Republican leadership made a big mistake and failed to separate the fanatical support of the religious right from middle America and its fear and anger over 911. Now that the fear has subsided and America is getting the upper hand in Iraq and a clear plan is developing in Afghanistan the Republicans are finding there is no majority support for the views of fanatics. They were too slow to move back to the middle and they are suffering because of it. Until they realize war and economics are far more important to America than stem cell research and abortion they will remain the minority party. Butch Why would a person of consience, who believes strongly in his faith, who believes that life begins at conception be called a "fanatic". I was born a catholic but don't practice my religion. However, I do have many friends who do, some who became priests, many who are protestant, and "born again"....and the one common denominator among so many of these people is how giving they are to those in need, how ready they are to volunteer to help with time and/or money, and how upstanding they are in the community. After 9/11 it was these kinds of people that hung flags outside their homes...flags you did not see all over Beverly Hills, the northern towns on Long Island, or the wealthy communities of nearby New Jersey. "Fanatic" liberals continue to use the word fanatic as one would describe a terrorist bomber, or a "skin head" or membes of Acorn....to describe people of faith. Why should the tax money fund government programs that are against their religious beliefs, and also not really part of our constitution. If someone wants to have five abortions or a scientist wants to do stem cell research using human embryo's be my guest, but pay for it privately.

SpinnerofTales -> RE: Stem Cell Research...your thoughts??? (3/9/2009 4:15:32 PM)
quote: Why should the tax money fund government programs that are against their religious beliefs, and also not really part of our constitution. quote: ORIGINAL: corysub For the same reason that my ethical beliefs didn't deter us from getting into a war that I found immoral, the giving of "faith based initiative money" to only Christian groups and to paying for education that spoke of abstinence as the only lesson someone needed to know in the area of sex education. The fact is, that when you take the all knowing, all seeing authority of "God" out of it, religious arguments about public policy is just another two bit opinion.

lronitulstahp -> RE: Stem Cell Research...your thoughts??? (3/9/2009 4:28:44 PM)
quote: After 9/11 it was these kinds of people that hung flags outside their homes...flags you did not see all over Beverly Hills, the northern towns on Long Island, or the wealthy communities of nearby New Jersey. Meh i dunno...as a Long Island girl, i could remember not being able to sneeze without seeing a flag, post 9/11....having never lived in Beverly Hills or NJ, i can't speak for either. But Huintington, Northport, Cold Spring Harbor etc.....flags out the ying yang. ~lawng eye-lund slut

kittinSol -> RE: Stem Cell Research...your thoughts??? (3/9/2009 4:37:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: corysub I was born a catholic but don't practice my religion. Cory, one isn't 'born a catholic'. One becomes a catholic, via baptism, usually courtesy of an innocent's guardians. Maybe you think you were born into your faith because you were plucked so young (this is typically what happens: they do the deed in infancy, when the person about to be committed to the religion cannot object).

lronitulstahp -> RE: Stem Cell Research...your thoughts??? (3/9/2009 4:41:58 PM)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3Vp9fQ616k "It was never easy for me....I was born a poor black child" -Steve Martin in "The Jerk"

corysub -> RE: Stem Cell Research...your thoughts??? (3/9/2009 4:46:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales quote: Why should the tax money fund government programs that are against their religious beliefs, and also not really part of our constitution. quote: ORIGINAL: corysub For the same reason that my ethical beliefs didn't deter us from getting into a war that I found immoral, the giving of "faith based initiative money" to only Christian groups and to paying for education that spoke of abstinence as the only lesson someone needed to know in the area of sex education. The fact is, that when you take the all knowing, all seeing authority of "God" out of it, religious arguments about public policy is just another two bit opinion. As far as your "ethical views on enteraing a war" it happens that we live in a land ruled by a representative government. If you and many others like you disagree or agree on an issue you vote into power the representatives you deserve. That's what happened two years ago in the Congress and what happened in the Presidential election of 2008. I don't agree with most of Obama's radical programs but he is the President until me and millions like me vote him out of office. However, no matter who is in power, when the country goes to war it should be "my country" and support the troops or get the hell out the way Bill Clinton ran during VietNam. Wars are not fought over "ethics". What war could where innocent people are killed and called "collateral damage" could be called ethical. However, unfortunate as it may be, the protection of the homeland is the key for our survival. Quite possibly time will impeach the bogus politics of the democrat party who has never met an adversary they would not want to break bread with it seems to me. As far as personal "ethics" or rather morality, I know people that are truly CO's and they joined the medics, for example, and served the country when called.

MmeGigs -> RE: Stem Cell Research...your thoughts??? (3/9/2009 4:49:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun quote: ORIGINAL: MmeGigs I think that anyone who is opposed to stem cell research on moral grounds and is also opposed to universal health care is a flaming hypocrite. Eh, there's room for someone to be opposed to one and not the other without it being hypocrisy...the issues surrounding both, and the objections to either one are too different. The objections may be different, but the issues aren't. They're both about life and death, are they not? I don't see how it can be anything but hypocritical for someone to defend an embryo's right to life while at the same time defending a broken health care system that condemns thousands of people to death because they don't have the wherewithal to get the medical care they need.

MarsBonfire -> RE: Stem Cell Research...your thoughts??? (3/9/2009 4:55:55 PM)
Ah, Kittn, if only your criteria for choosing males were true... I'd be doing so much better in my social life... LOL There has been some talk about this sort of medical research being funded and promoted by private sector corperations... Well, I don't know about you, but the idea that human genetic manipulation, and even the cures for various diseases being in the hands of a company who's only motivation is their bottom line... kinda squicks me out... I can see the scenario now... Christopher Reeve (or someone very much like him) is lying there, his ventilator pumping away... and the officious rep from the company sits next to him... "I'm sorry, Mr. Reeve, but your insurance doesn't cover your treatment using our recently perfected means of re-growing your spinal cord injury...this cure is extremely expensive, and unless we can be assured of getting paid for it's use, we're going to refuse to allow it to be used. You simply don't have enough of a working life left to be able to make it worth our while..." Much the way they already withold certain forms of treatment from cancer patients.

corysub -> RE: Stem Cell Research...your thoughts??? (3/9/2009 5:00:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp quote: After 9/11 it was these kinds of people that hung flags outside their homes...flags you did not see all over Beverly Hills, the northern towns on Long Island, or the wealthy communities of nearby New Jersey. Meh i dunno...as a Long Island girl, i could remember not being able to sneeze without seeing a flag, post 9/11....having never lived in Beverly Hills or NJ, i can't speak for either. But Huintington, Northport, Cold Spring Harbor etc.....flags out the ying yang. ~lawng eye-lund slut Well...I was thinking more about Oyster Bay, Glen Head, Manhasset, and a little south in Garden City. Yep..the flags were out in Huntington...and really blew in the breeze in ValleyStream, Lynbrook...and other towns on the south shore. I used to go out to Santa Monica and LA a lot and it was like a different world. I guess three thousand miles away makes a difference. Gets back to even the flag lapel issue for Mr. Obama. Wearing the flag seems to fade the further west of the Hudson you travel.

MmeGigs -> RE: Stem Cell Research...your thoughts??? (3/9/2009 5:37:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: corysub Why should the tax money fund government programs that are against their religious beliefs, You're opening a really big can of worms here. Why should pacifists' tax dollars be used to fund wars? Why should vegetarians' tax dollars be used to used to fund an FDA that promotes the consumption of meat? Why should religious objections trump other objections?

samboct -> RE: Stem Cell Research...your thoughts??? (3/9/2009 5:44:19 PM)
Hi Ven Thanks for the cartoon- got a chuckle out of that one. Kittin- well, I've got at least one out of three of your criteria nailed- I can cook. Nobody's run screaming from my face yet, and my back works fine so I can move furniture....Does giving a good backrub too put me in the running? Mars- what future? There's plenty of treatments not being used due to cost- we have a terrible triage system. We waste way too much money on people who are dying, and don't spend enough to improve the quality of life on those that might benefit. Plato nailed it when he wrote that sometimes the perfect is the enemy of the good. (might have been Aristotle...) It strikes me that by refusing to make decisions in some cases claiming we shouldn't play god (Terry Schiavo ring any bells?)- we do in other, less forgivable arenas. I have no problem yanking the plug on 100 cases of mortuary bait if we could use that money to put 10,000 (maybe more) kids into a decent school and get them good medicine both in the womb and out. We have got to get lawyers out of the hospitals and doctors offices... Sam

MrRodgers -> RE: Stem Cell Research...your thoughts??? (3/9/2009 6:32:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Archer I'm of two minds about the issue. Overall I am for stem cell research, but I am torn on the embrionic aspect, many places that they system could turn very bad. I'm glad the ban was in effect on one hand because the need to work around it likely was the reason they found the new skin based Stem Cell where they can manufacture stem cells without the need for embrios at all. Which was found in 2007. Would this line of study have been followed as diligently without the controversy? Yet I recognize that the slowing of the research has cost years of study on what they could do with Embrionic Stem Cells, which were and are the most promising to date. I agree almost entirely and part of the issue is the superior nature of these embryonic stem cells. There are many 1000's of these embryos being destroyed as we write and while I have even a problem with that, they are substantially over-produced for other hedonistic, medical, procreative desires. My serious problem with genetic research is that it remain reseach for theraputic medical purposes. Think about it, there is substantial evidence that the aids virus is man-made and even if it isn't...look at the possiblity. Now transfer that possibility to manipulating genes in anyway that could create a 'killer' gene. We have enough 'bad' genes without mankind adding to that pool. Designer genetic product need be among the most highly regulated and restricted of all human endeavors.

kdsub -> RE: Stem Cell Research...your thoughts??? (3/9/2009 6:35:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: corysub quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub I think the Republican leadership made a big mistake and failed to separate the fanatical support of the religious right from middle America and its fear and anger over 911. Now that the fear has subsided and America is getting the upper hand in Iraq and a clear plan is developing in Afghanistan the Republicans are finding there is no majority support for the views of fanatics. They were too slow to move back to the middle and they are suffering because of it. Until they realize war and economics are far more important to America than stem cell research and abortion they will remain the minority party. Butch Why would a person of consience, who believes strongly in his faith, who believes that life begins at conception be called a "fanatic". I was born a catholic but don't practice my religion. However, I do have many friends who do, some who became priests, many who are protestant, and "born again"....and the one common denominator among so many of these people is how giving they are to those in need, how ready they are to volunteer to help with time and/or money, and how upstanding they are in the community. After 9/11 it was these kinds of people that hung flags outside their homes...flags you did not see all over Beverly Hills, the northern towns on Long Island, or the wealthy communities of nearby New Jersey. "Fanatic" liberals continue to use the word fanatic as one would describe a terrorist bomber, or a "skin head" or membes of Acorn....to describe people of faith. Why should the tax money fund government programs that are against their religious beliefs, and also not really part of our constitution. If someone wants to have five abortions or a scientist wants to do stem cell research using human embryo's be my guest, but pay for it privately. Here is the definition of fanatic...." marked by excessive enthusiasm and often intense uncritical devotion " Now I would say that matches people equating a stem cell with a potential life… Hell jacking off and shooting a load on your tummy is just as bad... women who are ovulating and choose not to have sex are also prohibiting potential life… so is using a rubber or birth control... Do you oppose all those things? If so you are a fanatic. I am a man of faith and I practice my religion but I am not a fanatic about embryonic stem cell research. YOU must understand many people of faith believe the same… I think you will find the majority do. I live in a very religious republican area… we voted down a state amendment to limit stem cell research. I will wager any election anywhere…even Kansas will vote against such amendments when properly educated. Butch

DavanKael -> RE: Stem Cell Research...your thoughts??? (3/9/2009 7:00:09 PM)
I fervently support stem cell research and think that religiosity dictating public policy is wholly unacceptable. Davan

Archer -> RE: Stem Cell Research...your thoughts??? (3/9/2009 8:00:49 PM)
Owner, there are several slippery slopes I worry about That demand will increase to the point where a black market forms for stem cells, we have for example of how this can happen the black market in organ donation/ organ theft. Creation of embryos for the purpose of maintaining a ready supply of "spare parts" And the Octomom gives us the worry that doctor's ethics and fore-thought may not be all it should be. Will these embrionic stem cells only come from the sources they currently come from or will the demand shift the ethics and the "acceptable" means of embryo generation spread? These of course are not reasons not to pursue the research but rather reasons to keep a very close eye on the development of ethics to go along with the capacity of science. The research dollars and time spent on other sources of stem cells and the breakthroughs in those areas hopefully will make the embrionic stem cell use obsolete, and that can't be seen as a bad thing.

samboct -> RE: Stem Cell Research...your thoughts??? (3/9/2009 8:12:32 PM)
I'm not too worried about potential ethics issues with embryonic stem cells just yet. Right now- they're just a research tool and likely to stay that way for a number of years. And we don't know how adaptable the cells from an embryo are going to be to an adult with a different cell line- I suspect not very. Sam

Lorr47 -> RE: Stem Cell Research...your thoughts??? (3/9/2009 8:35:28 PM)
quote: Why should one person's or group's spiritual beliefs be the basis for restricting the activities of others? Should Christian Scientists be able to stop all federal funding of new surgical techniques? An excellent question and but I am sure the christian right of the republican party will again fail to address the issue of why my rights should depend on their fantasies.

Hippiekinkster -> RE: Stem Cell Research...your thoughts??? (3/9/2009 8:59:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Archer Owner, there are several slippery slopes I worry about That demand will increase to the point where a black market forms for stem cells, we have for example of how this can happen the black market in organ donation/ organ theft. Creation of embryos for the purpose of maintaining a ready supply of "spare parts" And the Octomom gives us the worry that doctor's ethics and fore-thought may not be all it should be. Will these embrionic stem cells only come from the sources they currently come from or will the demand shift the ethics and the "acceptable" means of embryo generation spread? These of course are not reasons not to pursue the research but rather reasons to keep a very close eye on the development of ethics to go along with the capacity of science. The research dollars and time spent on other sources of stem cells and the breakthroughs in those areas hopefully will make the embrionic stem cell use obsolete, and that can't be seen as a bad thing. Well, here's a slippery slope for ya... As a Libertarian, you should be all for private transactions, yet you seem to be calling for some sort of regulation. OMG! Governemtn regulation! Where will it stop? So I guess being a Libertarain really means being able to pick and choose what regulations you like, right?

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