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How do we stop the pain? - 8/15/2004 2:11:54 AM

LordNightScreams

Posts: 4
Joined: 5/28/2004
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Greetings to you all. I wanted to take the time to address an issues that has been bothering me for a little while now, and the problem doesn't seem to go away! There seems to be a great number of people who come on the on line BDSM personal sites looking for something or someone. The problem they a lot keep running into are players and what a lot call trolls. There is no real way of knowing who is who in the on line world, which is why I inform all those who come to me that they take their time in looking for someone and getting to know them. It doesn't always seem to have a happy ending, because it doesn't matter how well you think you might know someone, you never truly know that person until you meet them face to face. I have heard many horror stories in my time about how someone met another who turned out to be a nightmare! Seeing that we can't post lists of names of those to look out for how do we stop this growing problem from getting any worse then it already has and will become?

Post #: 1

RE: How do we stop the pain? - 8/15/2004 2:36:28 AM

QnofH3arts

Posts: 35
Joined: 6/19/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LordNightScreams

Seeing that we can't post lists of names of those to look out for how do we stop this growing problem from getting any worse then it already has and will become?

Before I realized that BDSM was not something that I alone practiced, that there was a whole, huge community of like-minded folks out there, I dated vanilla. Oh, if I could only post somewhere the names of the boys and later men who were not what they had presented themselves to be. I swear My heart broke a dozen times before I learned that I had to take the time to get to know someone before placing My heart at their disposal.

Granted, there's a lot more at risk in this lifestyle. However, if people would take the time to get to know the person to whom they are dreaming of submitting/dominating as if they planned to spend the rest of their lives with them, the physical risk would be lessened greatly. If you are a "weekend warrior" just looking for play, go to a public or semi-public event and play there to lessen your risk. But if you truly desire to submit to someone for life, make it real, take your time, get to know them (in real life) before putting your heart, health and life in their hands.

And that, unfortunately, is about the best we can do. Counsel people to think with their brains rather than their libido.

(in reply to LordNightScreams)

Post #: 2

RE: How do we stop the pain? - 8/15/2004 4:20:38 AM

jillwfsub4blkdom

Posts: 375
Joined: 7/2/2004
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i would say one thing that is extremely important is to spend time with them r/t and not just on the phone or online. People can put on so many pretenses using those forms of communication. It is much more difficult to do that in person.

_____________________________

"It's the moment that transcends
Our physical into a more spiritual level of understanding" - Musiq

(in reply to LordNightScreams)

Post #: 3

RE: How do we stop the pain? - 8/15/2004 6:24:24 AM

newflowers

Posts: 292
Joined: 5/23/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: QnofH3arts
I swear My heart broke a dozen times before I learned that I had to take the time to get to know someone before placing My heart at their disposal.

You should publish this lesson for the benefit of others - I still haven't learned it.

newflowers

(in reply to QnofH3arts)

Post #: 4

RE: How do we stop the pain? - 8/15/2004 7:23:48 AM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LordNightScreams
Seeing that we can't post lists of names of those to look out for how do we stop this growing problem from getting any worse then it already has and will become?

Our very own TallDarkAndWitty is working hard at finding you something that won't solve all your problems but will definitely help you make more informed decisions. Stay tuned!

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to LordNightScreams)

Post #: 5

RE: How do we stop the pain? - 8/15/2004 1:28:29 PM

Estring

Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
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I think that the majority of the times that people have problems, they ignore the red flags that were so clearly there. They seem to go against common sense and then get burned. All you can be is more careful and trust your gut.

(in reply to LordNightScreams)

Post #: 6

RE: How do we stop the pain? - 8/15/2004 2:57:37 PM

wyldhearted

Posts: 44
Joined: 5/17/2004
Status: offline

When coming online today this was something that was weighing a bit on my mind personally. How do we sort who from whom, how can we be certain that what we are being told is the truth.

I read the posts and found a bit of comfort in them. I found too a great deal of wisdom. LordNightScreams spoke of taking your time and getting to know a person very well. Very wise words.

QnofH3arts mirrored those same words. It is so easy to let your emotionaly and psychological desires urge you along before you know is rational. It doesn't at all mean that you are thinking with libido, not in my case, I did disagree with that. Some of us hurry for the wrong reasons and make errors in judging because we hear what we want to hear. We have to be so careful for our own good. if the sub/slave or Master/Dominant is *the* one, then they will still be there in a longer period of time.

The words that hit closest to home were those of Estring. He spoke of ignoring the red flags that in reality we see more often than we admit to having seen. Sometimes, we chose not to. Going against your own common sense and trusting your gut feeling as he spoke of...is rarely going to steer you wrong.

In need of learning those words personally...

morgan

_____________________________

"Words are just words, a Man's actions will tell of his honor"

(in reply to LordNightScreams)

Post #: 7

RE: How do we stop the pain? - 8/15/2004 5:23:48 PM

ScorpioMaster

Posts: 146
Joined: 3/30/2004
Status: offline

LordNightScreams the only real way to stop trollers, preditors, wanabies and players is to get away from the internet and start attending our local communities munches. The real answer is to educate your self by attending the local munches, sloshes and events. I know of some Dominate who will use checklist as a way to screen out the real people and players. Some of these checklists are about 28 pages long but at least it allows them to know who is who. The real people will take the time and fill it out while some do not even bother. I must admit I agree with you LordNightScreams but we who are true in the lifestyle has a responsibility to protect the Newbie’s from these people. These are my viewpoints ScorpioMaster

(in reply to LordNightScreams)

Post #: 8

RE: How do we stop the pain? - 8/15/2004 6:12:02 PM

Leonidas

Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline

You're not in Kansas anymore, toto. You are among folks, who, at the very least, have exotic sexual tastes. Along with that comes a strange and varied caste of characters who don't always, or even usually, behave as you might expect, or even according to anything that you might consider honorable, or decent. It's not just the internet, as one poster here suggested. It would be a rare face-to-face group indeed that didn't have a core of knowledgable (and somewhat reasonable) people, and then a fringe of drama queens, hit-and-run artists, and people whose psychies have been wounded in varied ways.

The real bottom line is that you aren't going to avoid the strange and colorful characters in this life. There are some common sense things that you can do to mitigate risk, but you can't make it go away, nor would you want to because if you are that careful, you're going to spend a great deal of time investigating, and not much time living. Everyone in this life decides, whether they know it or not, how much risk they're going to take. If you are mentally tough enough to take bigger risks, you probably should. When you look back on a life lived, you won't remember the fuck-ups and disappointments, you'll remember all the good times that would'nt have happened if you had been far more careful.

Whether dom or sub, you're going to take your lumps from time to time along with everyone else. If you aren't mentally tough enough to deal with that, you'll just end up bitter in the end. The long and short of it is, if you don't want to stay in Oz, you'd better beat it back to Kansas.

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 8/15/2004 7:16:44 PM >

_____________________________

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

(in reply to LordNightScreams)

Post #: 9

RE: How do we stop the pain? - 8/15/2004 6:16:49 PM

jillwfsub4blkdom

Posts: 375
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline

dangit Leonidas, what the heck is wrong with Kansas - i went to college there lol.

_____________________________

"It's the moment that transcends
Our physical into a more spiritual level of understanding" - Musiq

(in reply to Leonidas)

Post #: 10

RE: How do we stop the pain? - 8/15/2004 7:25:13 PM

SherriA

Posts: 544
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ScorpioMaster
I know of some Dominate who will use checklist as a way to screen out the real people and players. Some of these checklists are about 28 pages long but at least it allows them to know who is who. The real people will take the time and fill it out while some do not even bother.

Then lump me in with those who aren't "real" because I will NOT fill out those checklists. In fact, insisting on it is a big "wannabe" flag for me. The experienced players that I know understand that those checklists are really quite useless, since so many things are dependent on the energy between the individuals and the relationship that exists or builds. There are things that I'd never do with some people, but will happily jump into with others. There are things that I've never thought I could/would do, but with the right partner and the right encouragement I've discovered that I *can* go there.

The experienced players that I know are more interested in having conversations and finding out what makes their partners "tick", what pushes their buttons, and understanding how things work inside their heads. Checklists don't get at any of that stuff, which makes them pretty useless from my perspective.

_____________________________

-- Sherri

Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity.

(in reply to ScorpioMaster)

Post #: 11

RE: How do we stop the pain? - 8/15/2004 8:37:23 PM

Estring

Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

I know of some Dominate who will use checklist as a way to screen out the real people and players. Some of these checklists are about 28 pages long but at least it allows them to know who is who

28 pages long? You got to be kidding me. I would never be with someone who would fill out a checklist of that length. Lol. What is stopping someone from lying on the checklist anyway. What a waste of time.

(in reply to ScorpioMaster)

Post #: 12

RE: How do we stop the pain? - 8/15/2004 9:16:13 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

Hello,

Well, I did the whole checklist thing and abandoned it because I view it similarly to reading about Moby Dick by buying the Cliff's Notes. Yes, I can get the gist of the plot, but the pure majesty of the writing is lost. I want to feel my partner following my lead, I want to feel the movement of her body, her molding into my fingertips, her melting into my kiss, her soft purring as I do this and that. I dont want to read about it on a checklist.

First off, there is nothing to stop a person from lying. Somebody whose motive is deceipt will figure out a way to deceive you on a checklist.

Secondly, there really is no guarantee that the person knows what they like or dont like,
or really has much self-awareness, or experience, or whatever.

Im not sure I really have an answer. I started getting involved with actual humans local to me in my search; putting myself where I will actually meet people. Which isnt to say I have lost faith in the internet, it is just indicating that I am not putting all my eggs in one basket.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to Estring)

Post #: 13

RE: How do we stop the pain? - 8/16/2004 11:17:20 AM

Thanatosian

Posts: 765
Joined: 5/10/2004
From: New Castle, PA
Status: offline

quote:

How do we stop the pain?

obligatory smartass answer #1

stop flogging them

obligatory smartass answer #2

dont give the pain in the first place

obligatory smartass answer #3

analgesics (aka aspirin, acetaminophen, etc)

< Message edited by Thanatosian -- 8/16/2004 11:18:14 AM >

_____________________________

Apply Usual Caveats Here

An expert is somone who has made all the mistakes there are to be made

(in reply to LordNightScreams)

Post #: 14

RE: How do we stop the pain? - 8/16/2004 11:19:08 AM

afmvdp

Posts: 494
Joined: 7/10/2004
Status: offline

The only problem is often times just because a situation was bad between two people doesn't make either person by themselves bad or state that they couldn't be perfect for someone else. If someone desired from me a type of discipline which I am not interested in, trained in, or would even enjoy then things between me and said person would never work...but were the next person to be right up my alley, things could flow perfectly.

Again, just another reason for extensive communication before jumping into any type of play or relationship dynamic. Cause if something is incompatible because of ignorance it's both your faults, equally. I get really tired about all these complaints about "said sub wouldn't listen and is bad" or " this Master beat me too hard". Then you read the profiles or talk to the person for even just a single conversation and immediately see why the problems happened.

Communication seems to be the lost art...and people wonder why even so many vanilla relationships never work out let alone in the fetish scene.

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 15

RE: How do we stop the pain? - 8/16/2004 11:57:20 AM

MrThorns

Posts: 919
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline

Unfortunately...this is the major problem with online sites. People can say anything...but dont seem to be required to be able to do what they say. Someone can have no experience, and can write that they have 15 years of experience...lies and BS run rampant. There is no cure except to take your time...ask questions...look for consistency...check references.

As for posting a list of "Offenders".... Countless times I have seen slaves post online about how they were abused by someone they played with. Although I agree that every allegation should be taken seriously...there are a lot of people who cry wolf. There are a lot of people who put themselves into dangerous situations by not establishing safe calls, safe words, getting copies of the dominants drivers licence, meeting in public, etc. A lot of the nightmares that you read about online could have been avoided with a little common sense. Is it right to destroy a dominant's reputation every time a submissive says they were harmed? Food for thought...

~Thorns

_____________________________

~"Do you know what the chain of command is? Its the chain I beat ya with when ya don't follow my command."

"My inner child is a mean little fucker"

(in reply to LordNightScreams)

Post #: 16

RE: How do we stop the pain? - 8/16/2004 12:02:01 PM

jillwfsub4blkdom

Posts: 375
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline

quote:

There are a lot of people who put themselves into dangerous situations by not establishing safe calls, safe words, getting copies of the dominants drivers licence, meeting in public, etc. A lot of the nightmares that you read about online could have been avoided with a little common sense.

i don't think that is necessarily fair. Yes, sometimes people do not use common sense but that doesn't necessarily mean they deserve what happens to them.

_____________________________

"It's the moment that transcends
Our physical into a more spiritual level of understanding" - Musiq

(in reply to MrThorns)

Post #: 17

RE: How do we stop the pain? - 8/16/2004 12:25:06 PM

theroebabe

Posts: 3155
Joined: 7/25/2004
Status: offline

Well the one thing i have decided in my search is to see if the Dom i am speaking to will attend a local demo/munch group. If they are not willing to then i wont go any further with them. Just one of the things i do now to avoid some of the problems from the past.

Roe

_____________________________

Roe

People always ask me why I do these things . . .
It's because I can!

(in reply to LordNightScreams)

Post #: 18

RE: How do we stop the pain? - 8/16/2004 1:21:20 PM

MrThorns

Posts: 919
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jillwfsub4blkdom

quote:

There are a lot of people who put themselves into dangerous situations by not establishing safe calls, safe words, getting copies of the dominants drivers licence, meeting in public, etc. A lot of the nightmares that you read about online could have been avoided with a little common sense.

i don't think that is necessarily fair. Yes, sometimes people do not use common sense but that doesn't necessarily mean they deserve what happens to them.

I never said that they deserve what happens to them. I don't think anyone deserves to be abused in any way, shape or form. Although my comment may not be fair...it's still fairly accurate. I truly wish that it wasn't. In my opinion, the best way to avoid things like this from happening is to try and educate others about how to better protect themselves. To avoid a lot of the pitfalls that so many people have fallen victim to.

~Thorns

_____________________________

~"Do you know what the chain of command is? Its the chain I beat ya with when ya don't follow my command."

"My inner child is a mean little fucker"

(in reply to jillwfsub4blkdom)

Post #: 19

RE: How do we stop the pain? - 8/16/2004 1:38:10 PM

afmvdp

Posts: 494
Joined: 7/10/2004
Status: offline

I would say asking for a copy of their drivers license may be a bit overboard (need photo ID and two additional forms of identification, social security and a current bill to your address) but I agree that a lack of communication and proper questioning ends up resulting in the majority of the problems.

(in reply to MrThorns)

Post #: 20

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