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RE: How do we stop the pain? - 8/16/2004 4:34:54 PM   
MrThorns


Posts: 919
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline 		Heh... I agree, it may be a bit overboard. I have given my drivers licence to a girl and had her copy down the information while we sat down for coffee and negotiated a future scene. I told her to set up a safe call, have a safeword prepared, etc. But she was someone I had met online.. where the old identity switcheroo is pretty common. Hard to go to the cops and say you were abused by Master_GrandPooba and expect to get any helpful results.

~Thorns

_____________________________

~"Do you know what the chain of command is? Its the chain I beat ya with when ya don't follow my command."

"My inner child is a mean little fucker"

(in reply to afmvdp)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: How do we stop the pain? - 8/16/2004 4:40:06 PM   
LadyBeckett


Posts: 865
Joined: 2/4/2004
From: Scotland/Tennessee
Status: offline 		TallDarkandWitty is in the process of setting up a BDSM verification site online that will eliminate these "shot in the dark" meetings. The safe calls should still be in place, of course, but going through the verification process eliminates quite a few of the Master Grand_Pooba's.

_____________________________

Lady Beckett

_______________________________________________

"Submissive boys yearn to fall into their proper place, so the rest of their life will." ~ Lady Beckett

(in reply to MrThorns)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: How do we stop the pain? - 8/16/2004 4:54:08 PM   
MrThorns


Posts: 919
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline 		Outstanding... Curious about the accuracy of such a site. Would be great to see it work.

~Thorns

_____________________________

~"Do you know what the chain of command is? Its the chain I beat ya with when ya don't follow my command."

"My inner child is a mean little fucker"

(in reply to LadyBeckett)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: How do we stop the pain? - 8/18/2004 12:17:39 AM   
ShadeDiva


Posts: 1005
Joined: 3/31/2004
From: Sacramento, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyBeckett
TallDarkandWitty is in the process of setting up a BDSM verification site online that will eliminate these "shot in the dark" meetings. The safe calls should still be in place, of course, but going through the verification process eliminates quite a few of the Master Grand_Pooba's.


Okay, I'm about to be REALLY blunt. LOL

Lovvvvvvvvvvvvvvely. Just freaking lovely. I can't STAND lists, or "police" or BDSM "nannys". I wouldn't trust ANYone's verification but *mine*. I shudder to even think of the legal responsibilities that could arise from one really good player slipping through or a serious predator, and what that might mean legally when the *victim* starts hollering that they didn't HAVE to use common sense because they were *verified*. Egads.

And what of the FALSE accusations? I have seen plenty of people get just reamed in r/l by shunned or pissed off expartners/partners only to find out years after being crapped on by the majority of the community in their area that is was COMPLETELY FALSE. And now they will be lookig to a site? The horrors. <shuddercringeconvulse>

You can't replace common sense. Some people simply NEED to be slapped in the head with a 2x4 seven or eight times before they learn that gee... *those* decisions that lead me to that place were *bad*. It's sad, but it's true. Patterns and repeating mistakes are life's way of saying "YO! WAKE THE FUCK UP AND PAY ATTENTION THIS TIME AROUND WILL YA?" And until they learn to look, pay attention, and LEARN, nothing, I repeat NOTHING will ever stop them from making that mistake.

Life doesn't allow shortcuts - those it may appear that way for a while - the fact is you aren't helping people by doing the red flag signals FOR them - part of fucking up and choosing wrong is how we learn what flags to LOOK for, all you'll be doing is making victims.

Handholding only goes so far. Verifying someone online is just asking for a heap load of trouble and for perhaps many people to get hurt - even the person that only meant to do well. I sure as hell hope you are talking to your lawyer, Tall, for I'd be scared for you if you actually do something like this, it's only a matter of time before it's abused or you get burned, honestly. (gee I'm such a cynic! LOL!)

I'll end my mini-rant with a few of my favourite quotes:

Good judgment comes from experience, and often experience comes from bad judgment. ~Rita Mae Brown

Nothing is a waste of time if you use the experience wisely. ~Auguste Rodin

Experience is what you got by not having it when you need it. ~Author Unknown

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. ~Douglas Adams, Last Chance to See

Everything has been said before, but since nobody listens we have to keep going back and beginning all over again. ~Andre Gide, Le traite du Narcisse, 1891

Experience is the name everyone gives to his mistakes. ~Oscar Wilde, Lady Windemere's Fan, 1896

A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way. ~Mark Twain

Experience is what causes a person to make new mistakes instead of old ones. ~Author Unknown

There's only one thing more painful than learning from experience, and that is not learning from experience. ~Author Unknown

We have two lives - the one we learn with and the life we live after that. ~Bernard Malamud, The Natural

JMO, FWIIW.

~ShadeDiva, who also knows that absolutely nothing I could possibly say would change someone's mind that is convinced something like this could actually be a good thing. LOL!

_____________________________

~ShadeDiva
My projects of love:
theFetishForums
HumanFauna
Kinked
DommeWorld

(in reply to LadyBeckett)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: How do we stop the pain? - 8/18/2004 6:23:17 AM   
January


Posts: 891
Joined: 4/17/2004
Status: offline 		Hi Shade!

Come visit us more often!

January

P. S. Terrific post! I agree with you 100%.

_____________________________

[link: http://www.bookstrand.com/miss-you-sir] Miss You, Sir by January Rowe is available from Siren now! It's my latest smokin' hot bdsm romance.[/link]




(in reply to ShadeDiva)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: How do we stop the pain? - 8/18/2004 9:40:09 AM   
LadyBeckett


Posts: 865
Joined: 2/4/2004
From: Scotland/Tennessee
Status: offline 		Well what can I say, Shade, except that what you say is true. There is another thread on the General Discussion Board where Taggard discusses the site in more detail. I have no earthly clue of the what, why, or wherefores regarding the failure of other online verification sites. However I believe he has taken a lot of that into consideration when he created Verified BDSM. Here is a link to the thread where the site is being discussed. An idea whose time has come...Not Again!

Shade, this site is just a baby, an idea born out a sincere love of the Lifestyle and a desire to protect it for himself and others in BDSM, online and in r/l. We can criticize and naysay, or...we can roll up our shirt sleeves, combine our knowledge, and experience, and see if it will work.....or not. There are no guarantees, Shade. But let's not look at Tag, and stomp all over, what I believe is a pretty damn good idea, like it's one of those madagascar hissing roaches. Let's just see if it can work.

If it doesn't....I'll let you be my "Daddy" for a day. I love ya, Shade! yanno?

_____________________________

Lady Beckett

_______________________________________________

"Submissive boys yearn to fall into their proper place, so the rest of their life will." ~ Lady Beckett

(in reply to ShadeDiva)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: How do we stop the pain? - 8/18/2004 3:26:55 PM   
iwillserveu


Posts: 1633
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I just want to say I've been to the site. I complained and complained to Taggard. He responded and, most importantly, objections he did not think of he addressed IN CHANGING THE SITE'S TOS. (By the way, I doubt he encountered my brand of paranoia before.)

That said, maybe it still won't work. Maybe he is wasting his time. If he is, so? Last I checked it was his time to waste. One objection I thought good (I think by dark~angel) was a newbie might think it is the end all and think he/she is absolved from the usual safety work. A big disclaimer and suggestion of SOME BUT NOT ALL things to check yourself would go a long way. I don't suggest on a page like the TOS that is read only by those that read DVD player instructions (and the paranoid.) I think it should be unavoidable and in plain English. (Avoiding even two syllable words.)

_____________________________

When the Lady smiles i can't resist her call. As a matter of fact, i don't resist at all. Well that depends if it is a smile or a grimmace.

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: How do we stop the pain? - 8/18/2004 9:19:36 PM   
SherriA


Posts: 544
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I agree, Shade. Everything about it just rubs me the wrong way. Maybe I'm just cranky, but from the moment I heard about it, I didn't see anything good coming from it. (Well, other than good intentions...but we've all heard what road is paved with those, haven't we?)

That said, if it's useful for some people, then good for them. It's not a service I'd use or promote, personally, but that shouldn't stop anyone else from it, if it works for them.

_____________________________

-- Sherri

Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity.

(in reply to ShadeDiva)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: How do we stop the pain? - 8/19/2004 2:17:35 AM   
onsight9


Posts: 5
Status: offline 		Hello, I was just reading this thread and had to add a concern. I recently decided to enter the lifestyle after many years of frustration. Some may lable me as a "wanabie", or a troll, and decide to ban me from a site such as this one. I believe that there is no other way to find out if someone is serious about their intentions, or truthfull in their words until you meet them. I understand the frustration that it may cause, but I don't think a questionair is going to be the answer.

(in reply to SherriA)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: How do we stop the pain? - 8/19/2004 4:26:13 AM   
painslutpiggy


Posts: 6
Joined: 2/17/2004
Status: offline 		Just to add my 2 cents here but i have been a player for years was in the lifestyle a couple of years and then back to a player.
i have know many who enjoy some very heavy hot scenes that will have nothing to do with online or the bdsm 'public'. Does that make them bad? No just private people. i know from experience that one persons 'abuser' can be the next person ideal mate. Who is right? And i have seen experience lifestylers troll for fluff from time to time. So is trolling not to be allowed?
Will i ever give someone i just met online or at a munch my id, home address, or credit cards, NO WAY! Would i play with them yes why? because i trust my instincts i am more afraid of someone driving in a car on the same street as me them someone who want to play. there are more damage-pain done by road rage and traffic problems then bdsm 'violence'. There are lot of good people and bad people in life and there are good people who will do bad things. No need to stick ones head in the sand and yell stop. Nor to try and turn everyone in to matching automatons. Have i been hurt yes physically, emotionally, and monetary (had my toys ripped off) i learned and moved on. that is life and the thrill of this part of it.

(in reply to onsight9)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: How do we stop the pain? - 8/19/2004 10:05:25 AM   
Madame


Posts: 32
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Although I had the very best of results from my on-line search for a mate, it's not what I council for others. Not everyone has the freedom to travel and meet someone from on line and commit to regular meetings - And I'm not talkin' a couple of lusty weekends and you pack up the U-Haul.

Phone and cyber are fine for some diversion or to use as a tool, but they can not replace the face to face meetings IF you are serious in your search for a partner. Only there can judge if the person you chat with - is truly what would work in your real life.

These days with so many new folks joining this lifestyle, I suggest, and if in Training with me, insist you go to local munches. There is safety in numbers, and in such a close knit community, the slugs and users don't last too long. Sure, one will slip through the cracks - but we do watch out for our own.

Please Friends! Don't rush to play, know what you want first, and STick To It! If it's a non-drinking solid homebody - with a side of kink- that you want - then be honest and put that out there. Don't re-make yourself to fit some fantasy - cause when you catch the flu and you need someone to hold your head over the comode - fantasy goes right down the crapper.

Don't accept less than what you are worthy of - and make yourself worthy of the best.

With Warm Regards,
Madame

(in reply to afmvdp)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: How do we stop the pain? - 8/19/2004 1:13:33 PM   
afmvdp


Posts: 494
Joined: 7/10/2004
Status: offline 		The problem is that many will never visit the munches for numerous reasons, also for those of us the younger halves of our lives tend to find it filled with people in their latter half. The idea is good but in most areas is rather flawed. Second problem is that many, especially for answering their initial questions are too afraid of being "outed" so to speak or overcome with fears from the blatant misinformation spread out there about people in our lives. Lastly, there are often times quite a few predators at these play parties and munches that feed off the new people as they come in confused and in turn will only send those people that much further away.

Again, a good idea that needs to be rather refined. I personally am trying to work with some other local people to help form a subgroup which direct faces these problems head on. Specific intro sessions for newcomers to freely ask questions in an open environment rather than just sharing buffalo wings with drunken scenesters, and also which is more so geared towards people in their younger years.

(in reply to Madame)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: How do we stop the pain? - 8/19/2004 2:37:00 PM   
Madame


Posts: 32
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: afmvdp

The problem is that many will never visit the munches for numerous reasons, also for those of us the younger halves of our lives tend to find it filled with people in their latter half.

There's so many groups and munches around the US I find it hard to believe that there isn't one with enough diversity in ages to find common interests and/or friends. Although I am one of those enjoying the latter part of her life - my wisdom and flair for fun makes me worthy of pleasant attention, regardless of age. Maybe the young folk don't know the genteel art of socializing anymore.

Second problem is that many, especially for answering their initial questions are too afraid of being "outed" so to speak or overcome with fears from the blatant misinformation spread out there about people in our lives.

Gads! I've been in the lifestyle for more than 10 years and I've never had bad experiences like that. Sure there can be a bit of drama .. some gossipin' .. but that will happen in any small community. It's up to the individual to decide - what kind of ppl do you want in your inner circle?

Don't want to be a part of the drama? Don't pick up the script. Why allow those pot stirrers in your life? I am the Mistress of my own domain - as each and every one of you should be the one in Power in yours.

Lastly, there are often times quite a few predators at these play parties and munches that feed off the new people as they come in confused and in turn will only send those people that much further away.

Firstly, I was speaking of public munches. If I wasn't clear, my suggestion is to find a munch who's policy is Business Casual/ NO Scene wear and held in a public eatery.

Play parties are another topic all together. If you aren't smart or mature enough to go to a lifestyle gathering and have the backbone to say: No Thank you I'm just watching, well you don't belong there. Stick to munches and make some friends first.

Again, a good idea that needs to be rather refined. I personally am trying to work with some other local people to help form a subgroup which direct faces these problems head on.

I've done that with a pvt e -group. I plan and facilitate nilla afternoon gatherings on busy lifestyle weekends. I keep the membership closed and add friends by suggestion. By offering a special hotel to meet in and an assurance of Proper behavior in the public areas, many first timers find not just fellowship, but fun safe playmates. Not to mention the food is great!

Specific intro sessions for newcomers to freely ask questions in an open environment rather than just sharing buffalo wings with drunken scenesters, and also which is more so geared towards people in their younger years.

I really take umbrage at your choice of verbiage. I have Never seen any of our D/s friends drunk at munch or playparty. Have I seen folks have a beer or two - sure. Have I ever seen that same person scene at any party that followed, NO!

How much common sense does it take – when you see behavior you don’t like – to figure out you are in a crappy circle of kinksters. Or maybe you don't know how much work goes into each and every lifestyle event, no matter how small it may seem. I'd bet the rent it's those folks in the latter part of their lives doing all the planning and hosting, most of us taking on added expenses to make it more affordable to the group as a whole.

A munch is just a place for you to meet and get to know like-minded people - it is up to you what you glean from it. Don't go with a chip on your shoulder - or your noses in the air - look beyond the trappings of your fantasies and just be real.

(in reply to afmvdp)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: How do we stop the pain? - 8/19/2004 3:21:42 PM   
afmvdp


Posts: 494
Joined: 7/10/2004
Status: offline 		There's so many groups and munches around the US I find it hard to believe that there isn't one with enough diversity in ages to find common interests and/or friends. Although I am one of those enjoying the latter part of her life - my wisdom and flair for fun makes me worthy of pleasant attention, regardless of age. Maybe the young folk don't know the genteel art of socializing anymore.

And likewise with good groups there are bad groups, someone can only visit what is within their range. While I've heard Atlanta has a great scene I'm not going to drive 8 hours to check this out on a regular basis. And I am not discriminating by age, just that for a younger, single person in the scene my life is likely very different then a more matured, couple and thus my desires, outlooks, even daily tasks are very different. Also socializing is only relevant if they are people you would have a desire to socialize with if this common interest were not in play.

Gads! I've been in the lifestyle for more than 10 years and I've never had bad experiences like that. Sure there can be a bit of drama .. some gossipin' .. but that will happen in any small community. It's up to the individual to decide - what kind of ppl do you want in your inner circle?

Don't want to be a part of the drama? Don't pick up the script. Why allow those pot stirrers in your life? I am the Mistress of my own domain - as each and every one of you should be the one in Power in yours.

But the problem again is, if this is the majority then you are left only often times with a few miscreants and those thinking that a D/s meeting is an easy way to get laid. Again some of my problems have always been taking things in my life far more serious than those around me.

Firstly, I was speaking of public munches. If I wasn't clear, my suggestion is to find a munch who's policy is Business Casual/ NO Scene wear and held in a public eatery.

Play parties are another topic all together. If you aren't smart or mature enough to go to a lifestyle gathering and have the backbone to say: No Thank you I'm just watching, well you don't belong there. Stick to munches and make some friends first.

Well most if not all munches are public and I understand that, that wasn't implied to be the case. To say that if someone who is a novice and ends up getting themselves into an awkward situation is just a "well shit happens, should've been smarter" sounds rather careless. But hey perhaps I'm just more concerned about people being taken advantage of. So be it.


I've done that with a pvt e -group. I plan and facilitate nilla afternoon gatherings on busy lifestyle weekends. I keep the membership closed and add friends by suggestion. By offering a special hotel to meet in and an assurance of Proper behavior in the public areas, many first timers find not just fellowship, but fun safe playmates. Not to mention the food is great!

Again the issue isn't about finding suitable "playmates" it's abouting having an open and safe environment for people to learn and cohabitate without even the need or desire to jump right into play. Gah! Some people really are stuck on BDSM being a purely sexual thing.

I really take umbrage at your choice of verbiage. I have Never seen any of our D/s friends drunk at munch or playparty. Have I seen folks have a beer or two - sure. Have I ever seen that same person scene at any party that followed, NO!

How much common sense does it take – when you see behavior you don’t like – to figure out you are in a crappy circle of kinksters. Or maybe you don't know how much work goes into each and every lifestyle event, no matter how small it may seem. I'd bet the rent it's those folks in the latter part of their lives doing all the planning and hosting, most of us taking on added expenses to make it more affordable to the group as a whole.

A munch is just a place for you to meet and get to know like-minded people - it is up to you what you glean from it. Don't go with a chip on your shoulder - or your noses in the air - look beyond the trappings of your fantasies and just be real.
[/quote]

Well if you take umbrage or not, I could care less really.I could care less also about people having a few drinks, partying, enjoying themselves my point is that the scenario offered by most munches and open scene group meetings is in fact not condusive or inviting to the neophyte which they should be looking to open into. A munch is a fine enough place to go and meet people who you already know and have already spent time with. It is all too often though recommended to people as the "place to go" or the "thing to do" for people new to the scene when in fact doing such normally does nothing more than scare them off.

Again if the local scene is a problem, you create a new local scene and that is what I am doing. As a whole I was rather disapointed by both the Tampa/St Pete scene and the Orlando one. Perhaps the problems inherent in the State. We can't even get a vote straight why should we be able to get a BDSM gathering right either.

(in reply to Madame)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: How do we stop the pain? - 8/19/2004 4:51:30 PM   
Madame


Posts: 32
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		While I've heard Atlanta has a great scene I'm not going to drive 8 hours to check this out on a regular basis.

Too bad - the 2 times I was invited to socilize in Atlanta it was a HOOT! When I first found the scene we drove to Houston once a month to meet folks. An 8 hour drive for me, but well worth it for the great times I had. Another plus for being in the latter part of your life, you can afford a sometimes expensive lifestyle.

Also socializing is only relevant if they are people you would have a desire to socialize with if this common interest were not in play.

I've found very engaging intellgent folks 30 years younger than me, and was never lost for good conversation. But then I've always enjoyed learning from all levels of life and scene experience. And it doesn't hurt my feelings one bit - when some tasty, too young for me, boy-o kisses my hand and makes me feel all young again!

But the problem again is, if this is the majority then you are left only often times with a few miscreants and those thinking that a D/s meeting is an easy way to get laid. Again some of my problems have always been taking things in my life far more serious than those around me.

Again, you've been to some really shit gatherings, and anyone that thinks it's not human nature to want to "get laid" is living in a fairy land. There's nothing wrong with being serious, but sometimes it can lead to being that never ending whining person no one wants to get to know.

Well most if not all munches are public and I understand that, that wasn't implied to be the case. To say that if someone who is a novice and ends up getting themselves into an awkward situation is just a "well shit happens, should've been smarter" sounds rather careless. But hey perhaps I'm just more concerned about people being taken advantage of. So be it.

I didn't say well shit happens. I said that if a novice wants to attend a playparty, they best be able to say NO. If you didn't get taught how to do that from your parents .. here's your Lesson

You say NO Thank you, but I'd love a cold drink.

I have NEVER attended any event where the Rules of the House weren't stated clearly with Monitors attentive and ready to answer questions.

Again the issue isn't about finding suitable "playmates" it's abouting having an open and safe environment for people to learn and cohabitate without even the need or desire to jump right into play. Gah! Some people really are stuck on BDSM being a purely sexual thing.

Of course it's about suitable playmates -even life long partners - if you are speaking of real life BDSM and not cyber. Its about dating and getting to know each other and finding that safe place to ask questions and play and build a circle of friends.

If it's a BDSM group, what's the focus? Quilting?

If it's not sexual, what is it? Church?

my point is that the scenario offered by most munches and open scene group meetings is in fact not condusive or inviting to the neophyte which they should be looking to open into.

You don't know about most munches - I have just clearly told you that you are wrong. The munches I attend and suggest are as I said .. safe and fun places to meet others that have a passion for BDSM. That doesn't mean you drop your brain at the door. The munches and groups I no longer belong or attend didn't have the features I expect when I spend my entertainment energy, so shrug - NEXT.

A munch is a fine enough place to go and meet people who you already know and have already spent time with. It is all too often though recommended to people as the "place to go" or the "thing to do" for people new to the scene when in fact doing such normally does nothing more than scare them off.

I give this statement a resounding Bull! - groups don't grow in numbers if you are scaring off the new people. FF in Dallas has been an ongoing munch for over 5 years and can boast 200+ each month.

As a whole I was rather disapointed by both the Tampa/St Pete scene and the Orlando one.

Now that doesn't shock me at all - I doubt there is much that doesn't dissapoint you, that's so sad. Come on up to TEXAS - I know I can find you other dissapointed young folks to swap ideas with - like I said - we have a wide variety to choose from.

And who knows you might just find that cute old FemDom in the bright yellow blouse more fun than those wee young things.

Youth - is wasted on the young

(in reply to afmvdp)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: How do we stop the pain? - 8/19/2004 5:24:12 PM   
afmvdp


Posts: 494
Joined: 7/10/2004
Status: offline 		I'm not going to even bother responding to all that jargon. You keep resounding back with "bull" and disagreements but my experiences are not yours and yours are not mine. Youth is wasted on the young indeed but my time is not wasted on the ignorant.

Again perhaps there are some things you wouldn't understand until you remove yourself from your own shoes and place yourself into someone elses. Just a thought to ponder.

(in reply to Madame)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: How do we stop the pain? - 8/19/2004 6:30:45 PM   
Madame


Posts: 32
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: afmvdp

I'm not going to even bother responding to all that jargon. You keep resounding back with "bull" and disagreements but my experiences are not yours and yours are not mine.

Jargon? Wrong word - this is a debate and you don't have to respond - we are both expressing our opinions. I say you are full-of- it, negitive thinker, doing a diservice to the very newbees you are posting to .. telling them munches are filled with drunken slugs just waiting to pray on some poor innocent. Pffft :)

Youth is wasted on the young indeed but my time is not wasted on the ignorant.

Time is never wasted if the topic is lively.

Again perhaps there are some things you wouldn't understand until you remove yourself from your own shoes and place yourself into someone elses. Just a thought to ponder.

Actually I'm pondering what that statement has to do with the subject. Guess I will have to remain ignorant - since you don't seem to catch my jargon and won't be replying.


Dang it - it was just getting fun. Spoil Sport!

(in reply to afmvdp)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: How do we stop the pain? - 8/19/2004 6:33:41 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline 		I heard somewhere a useful maxim which I have actually used in a presentation to customers for a company I once worked for.

"It is impossible to idiot proof something, because idiots are far too clever."

To me, it seems human nature to do everything in their power to snatch defeat
from the jaws of victory.

JM, CBW, BTYG.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to afmvdp)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: How do we stop the pain? - 8/19/2004 6:34:21 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline 		btw: The quote "Youth is wasted on the young" comes to us courtesy of Oscar Wilde...

Sinergy

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David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: How do we stop the pain? - 8/19/2004 7:00:59 PM   
afmvdp


Posts: 494
Joined: 7/10/2004
Status: offline 		Bother to read my 190+ other posts and you'll see I'm rarely the type to shy away from a debate but I'm just not in the mood tonight to banter back and forth with an issue like this. Again my experiences are not yours and yours are not mine. That's all that really needs to be said to the issue. Some people love munches and praise them others hate them. It's just the way people are. Some work in that environment others don't. As to me being negative whatever else you said? Again read my other posts before placing the judgement. I'm not negative at all, direct, blunt, absolutely...but negative. No doesn't really fit.

Honestly I think I have just been spending way too much time on this board as of late as is. My book is never gonna get finished before deadline at this rate.

(in reply to Madame)
Profile   Post #: 40
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