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A positive day on the markets - 3/10/2009 5:28:05 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		Well the news has been so bad for too long (not that I think there havent been good strides so far), and while I no way believe that it will be the last, a small smile in a bad time is good. Stocks: Biggest gains of '09The Dow gains 379 points, Nasdaq surges 7% and S&P 500 rallies 6.4% on Citigroup and possible limit on short selling.
http://money.cnn.com/2009/03/10/markets/markets_newyork/index.htm?postversion=2009031011


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RE: A positive day on the markets - 3/10/2009 6:09:25 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

Well the news has been so bad for too long (not that I think there havent been good strides so far), and while I no way believe that it will be the last, a small smile in a bad time is good. Stocks: Biggest gains of '09The Dow gains 379 points, Nasdaq surges 7% and S&P 500 rallies 6.4% on Citigroup and possible limit on short selling.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic



Now I can't wait for the same people who blame Obama every time the stock market goes down to explain why it's despite him, not because of him, when it goes up. This should be entertaining. I might even bring popcorn.


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RE: A positive day on the markets - 3/10/2009 6:27:06 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

quote:

Well the news has been so bad for too long (not that I think there havent been good strides so far), and while I no way believe that it will be the last, a small smile in a bad time is good. Stocks: Biggest gains of '09The Dow gains 379 points, Nasdaq surges 7% and S&P 500 rallies 6.4% on Citigroup and possible limit on short selling.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic



Now I can't wait for the same people who blame Obama every time the stock market goes down to explain why it's despite him, not because of him, when it goes up. This should be entertaining. I might even bring popcorn.




If you want someone to make that counterargument, first you must make your argument explaining why it was because of him.


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RE: A positive day on the markets - 3/10/2009 6:35:22 PM   
KatyLied


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Status: offline 		Does anyone else get a bit jumpy knowing that the bubble will move at the good humor of just one single corporation?

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RE: A positive day on the markets - 3/10/2009 6:37:39 PM   
StrangerThan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

Does anyone else get a bit jumpy knowing that the bubble will move at the good humor of just one single corporation?


Yeah. I think that's the link a lot of people are missing in the midst of bitching, moaning, and finger pointing. 

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RE: A positive day on the markets - 3/10/2009 6:39:38 PM   
aravain


Posts: 1211
Joined: 8/26/2008
Status: offline 		very, Katy :(

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RE: A positive day on the markets - 3/10/2009 6:39:42 PM   
Owner59


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Status: offline 		It`s going to bottom out at some piont.Why not this week?

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RE: A positive day on the markets - 3/10/2009 6:43:26 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

If you want someone to make that counterargument, first you must make your argument explaining why it was because of him.
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda



Ahhh..but I'm not the one who screams "It's HIS fault!" Every time the market dips. I'm not one of those who yells "Wall street has voted! His plans are failures! Look, Look, the stock market is falling."

I have always believed that the current financial situation is deep and complex and that it is going to take some time to turn it around. I have never expected the current administration to either fix or ruin the system in two months. So I don't have to attribute this upswing to Obama (although it is possible that the gelling of his plans and release of further details of same may well have had a good effect).....I leave it to those who have been carping on each downturn to explain away the uptick.


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RE: A positive day on the markets - 3/10/2009 7:01:34 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

quote:

If you want someone to make that counterargument, first you must make your argument explaining why it was because of him.
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda



Ahhh..but I'm not the one who screams "It's HIS fault!" Every time the market dips. I'm not one of those who yells "Wall street has voted! His plans are failures! Look, Look, the stock market is falling."

I have always believed that the current financial situation is deep and complex and that it is going to take some time to turn it around. I have never expected the current administration to either fix or ruin the system in two months. So I don't have to attribute this upswing to Obama (although it is possible that the gelling of his plans and release of further details of same may well have had a good effect).....I leave it to those who have been carping on each downturn to explain away the uptick.




The answer is simple, and is very clearly and accurately explained on the very same financial websites and by the very same market analysts that have, for the past several weeks, repeatedly explained - just as clearly and just as accurately - exactly how the administration's missteps have been damaging the economy. You either didn't believe or didn't understand them then, why would you care what they have to say now? I don't feel like playing child's games at the moment. You want to troll for flames, state a position and post some actual flamebait, not this passive-aggressive taunting.


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RE: A positive day on the markets - 3/10/2009 7:23:02 PM   
SpinnerofTales


Posts: 1586
Joined: 5/30/2006
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quote:

The answer is simple, and is very clearly and accurately explained on the very same financial websites and by the very same market analysts that have, for the past several weeks, repeatedly explained - just as clearly and just as accurately - exactly how the administration's missteps have been damaging the economy. You either didn't believe or didn't understand them then, why would you care what they have to say now? I don't feel like playing child's games at the moment. You want to troll for flames, state a position and post some actual flamebait, not this passive-aggressive taunting.
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

quote:

If you want someone to make that counterargument, first you must make your argument explaining why it was because of him.
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda



Ahhh..but I'm not the one who screams "It's HIS fault!" Every time the market dips. I'm not one of those who yells "Wall street has voted! His plans are failures! Look, Look, the stock market is falling."

I have always believed that the current financial situation is deep and complex and that it is going to take some time to turn it around. I have never expected the current administration to either fix or ruin the system in two months. So I don't have to attribute this upswing to Obama (although it is possible that the gelling of his plans and release of further details of same may well have had a good effect).....I leave it to those who have been carping on each downturn to explain away the uptick.




The answer is simple, and is very clearly and accurately explained on the very same financial websites and by the very same market analysts that have, for the past several weeks, repeatedly explained - just as clearly and just as accurately - exactly how the administration's missteps have been damaging the economy. You either didn't believe or didn't understand them then, why would you care what they have to say now? I don't feel like playing child's games at the moment. You want to troll for flames, state a position and post some actual flamebait, not this passive-aggressive taunting.



My position is simple: There are as many economists with impeccable credentials who think Obama on the right track as there are those who claim he's ruining the economy. As I have stated quite simply, to think that this current crisis is going to  abate in any noticeable degree in two months is foolishness. And if one is going to point at a decline as proof of a failing policy, one must be willing to point to a gain as a sign of success or else show themselves as hypocrites.

I think that a very clear position, clearly stated and with no personal attacks against anyone. I only wish that I was accorded the same courtesy.


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RE: A positive day on the markets - 3/10/2009 7:24:00 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

Does anyone else get a bit jumpy knowing that the bubble will move at the good humor of just one single corporation?


Yes and no, but let's keep in mind that so far, there's no reason to believe this is anything but a bear-market rally. It doesn't take much sometimes to spark a bear-market rally, especially when the bear has been as fierce as it has.

But even at that, there's more to it than just a bit of good news from one company. In addition to the Citigroup news, several senior administration figures - Tim Geithner, Sheila Bair, and Ben Bernanke - have each made some very positive, encouraging statemements over the last 24 hours. In addition, the Wall Street Journal reported that the Securities and Exchange Commission is likely to reinstate a rule that will severely limit short-trading, a move that is expected to greatly reduce market volatility. These have all been very encouraging to investors who have been just plain desperate for some good news the last few weeks. Add to that the fact that any time stocks plunge as far and as fast, and in such uninterrupted fashion, as they have the last few weeks, it's just a matter of time before buyers rush back in looking for deals, and you've got a lot of factors all coming together in a sort of perfect storm.

But the news from Citigroup was huge, even it is only one company. This is an absolutely enormous corporation, considered one of the weakest links in the crippled financial sector, which has been getting hammered into the ground for months and which many investors have written off. And now to find out that in the middle of all this, this left-for-dead company has actually been making not only a profit, but is reporting its best earnings in almost 2 years - well, it's a huge suprise. It's not just the first good news the market has had in a long while, it's extremely good news. Probably not good enough to sustain the rally more than a day or two, but certainly reason for a day's worth of optimism, anyway.


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RE: A positive day on the markets - 3/10/2009 7:28:16 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		This may last for a few days or so but it is called a bear market rally or "sucker's rally."


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RE: A positive day on the markets - 3/10/2009 7:41:37 PM   
SpinnerofTales


Posts: 1586
Joined: 5/30/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

This may last for a few days or so but it is called a bear market rally or "sucker's rally."



Unfortunately, you're right, Popeye....there's going to be a lot of market volatility and the swings are going to be exaggerated.  Unfortunately, it seems investors are buying and selling emotion instead of value currently. This is true in both directions. I think I'm safe in saying that we have a long way to go before we can say we've turned the corner.


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RE: A positive day on the markets - 3/10/2009 7:43:56 PM   
aravain


Posts: 1211
Joined: 8/26/2008
Status: offline 		*pops up*

Eh?

Something about suckers? Bears?

Oh, false alarm?

Shit.

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RE: A positive day on the markets - 3/10/2009 7:48:04 PM   
KatyLied


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Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
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quote:

there's more to it than just a bit of good news from one company.


The first reports I read (hours ago) cited Citigroup has the reason for the market change.


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RE: A positive day on the markets - 3/10/2009 8:09:13 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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Joined: 1/26/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales


I think that a very clear position, clearly stated and with no personal attacks against anyone. I only wish that I was accorded the same courtesy.




Oh. I'm sorry. I failed to recognize this -

quote:

Now I can't wait for the same people who blame Obama every time the stock market goes down to explain why it's despite him, not because of him, when it goes up. This should be entertaining. I might even bring popcorn.


...as an appeal for courtesy. Silly of me, but somehow that looked more like flamebait.

But anyway...


quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales
My position is simple: There are as many economists with impeccable credentials who think Obama on the right track as there are those who claim he's ruining the economy.


My first response was to ask you who all these economists are and where they've been hiding,  but within a couple of seconds realized that as vaguely and as sarcastically as you worded the question, there's no way to give it a serious answer. if you define your question more clearly, I'll try to answer it.


quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTalesAs I have stated quite simply, to think that this current crisis is going to  abate in any noticeable degree in two months is foolishness. And if one is going to point at a decline as proof of a failing policy, one must be willing to point to a gain as a sign of success or else show themselves as hypocrites.


I like you, and agree with you a lot more often than not, but with all due respect it's posts like this that make me wonder if you understand anything about the stock market. So far, this is a one-day rally in the middle of 3 straight weeks of enormous and almost uninterrupted losses. Just exactly what "sign of success" do you see here? Are you seriously suggesting that this means the stock market has bottomed? The Dow's up 6%, and that's fantastic, but it's just one day. Are you arguing that this one-day rally vindicates Obama's economic policies and repudiates every criticism of those policies? And if that's not what you're saying, then what's your point? Just exactly what is it that you want people to admit upon pain of exposing themselves as hypocrites?





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RE: A positive day on the markets - 3/10/2009 11:20:49 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

This may last for a few days or so but it is called a bear market rally or "sucker's rally."



Unfortunately, you're right, Popeye....there's going to be a lot of market volatility and the swings are going to be exaggerated.  Unfortunately, it seems investors are buying and selling emotion instead of value currently. This is true in both directions. I think I'm safe in saying that we have a long way to go before we can say we've turned the corner.




Spin, correct and we'll need to see "capitulation" before we turn the corner and that means more pain ahead, we're far from capitulation yet.

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RE: A positive day on the markets - 3/11/2009 2:03:46 AM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		Very much so, Katy. 


quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied
Does anyone else get a bit jumpy knowing that the bubble will move at the good humor of just one single corporation?


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RE: A positive day on the markets - 3/11/2009 2:58:03 AM   
subfever


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

This may last for a few days or so but it is called a bear market rally or "sucker's rally."



My sentiments, exactly.

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RE: A positive day on the markets - 3/11/2009 3:56:51 AM   
SpinnerofTales


Posts: 1586
Joined: 5/30/2006
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quote:

I like you, and agree with you a lot more often than not, but with all due respect it's posts like this that make me wonder if you understand anything about the stock market. So far, this is a one-day rally in the middle of 3 straight weeks of enormous and almost uninterrupted losses. Just exactly what "sign of success" do you see here? Are you seriously suggesting that this means the stock market has bottomed? The Dow's up 6%, and that's fantastic, but it's just one day. Are you arguing that this one-day rally vindicates Obama's economic policies and repudiates every criticism of those policies? And if that's not what you're saying, then what's your point? Just exactly what is it that you want people to admit upon pain of exposing themselves as hypocrites?
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda


I by no means was trying to indicate that a one day uptick in the stock market had any meaningful comment on the current economic policies. My point is that the downturn also has less to do with the current economic policies of the government than some would like to suggest. This is a complicated situation that puts us in rather uncharted waters and it's not going to be fixed in two months or by one piece of legislation no matter what that legislation contains.

Was my initial posting a bit sarcastic? I will admit to that. But the target of that sarcasm were not the economists analyzing the situation nor anyone with reasonable doubts about the effectiveness of the policies in question. The target of that sarcasm were those posters who take every bad day wall street has and waves it like a flag to show how this administration has already failed.

In short, my point was not that a single good day in the stock market at this point is any sign of success and a bad day no sign of failure. If one is going to engage in one side of that thinking, one should engage in both. I would far prefer that people engaged in neither.

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