Inherited Anger ? (Full Version)

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Aneirin -> Inherited Anger ? (3/12/2009 7:41:24 AM)

What do you understand as inherited anger, do you think there is such a thing, is it possible that anger and  its  brother, confusion can be passed on from one generation to the next like hair colour or other ancestral features ?

It seems the world is an angry place, even the peaceful, there is a deep seething feeling of something they cannot describe, something that if the thought is allowed to stray is easy to come out. This might be anger, but more often it manifests as confusion, a something that sits deep. Is this inherited anger, primal anger ?

People spend so much time consumed with hate, fear, resentment and confusion, when those layers are stripped back, the anger of the present dissolved, there is something else there, a feeling an origin cannot be found, even those that have confronted and worked out their present demeanour know there is something deeper they cannot fathom a cause, but just know it is there to be watched and kept down, could this depth of feeling be with us from our birth and there passed on to those future generations ?



pahunkboy -> RE: Inherited Anger ? (3/12/2009 7:49:04 AM)

If you mean genetic., hmm.

Alot of self composure is in the early years.  All the comments the adults make.  In my family, I see how mom teaches us to be afraid. But also hints of helplessness by being oh you PO thing.

We know disease is/can be genetic. so if I have pain levels, I am not congenial Mary. I often am the mad man of the century when my pain is bad.

Right here and now. YOU are the product of every thought you ever had in your life.

The biggest thing you can do to clear the mind, is to smash the TV set.   TV world is not a healthy place to live



UncleNasty -> RE: Inherited Anger ? (3/12/2009 8:20:18 AM)

Science continues to reveal new truths. I suppose genetic predispositions to emotional states are possible.

Currently though I view it as more of a "nurture" thing than a "nature" thing.

Uncle Nasty



GreedyTop -> RE: Inherited Anger ? (3/12/2009 8:37:42 AM)

I agree.. nurture more than nature, IMO....  



RainydayNE -> RE: Inherited Anger ? (3/12/2009 11:38:47 AM)

i think you can inherit certain traits that make you more susceptible to anger, but a lot of it also has to do with the way you're raised. if you DO have a short temper, and you grow up observing your parents letting the temper get the better of them, you'll do the same





Lockit -> RE: Inherited Anger ? (3/12/2009 11:47:19 AM)

I do believe that some things are inherited and more is being proven on this, but I do believe that your surroundings have a major impact and can determine what impulse is acted upon.  Then again... I have seen some born with such a personality and such that no one would question it was natural/genetic/whatever!  And I am sure it wasn't that I was tired! lol



ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Inherited Anger ? (3/12/2009 11:49:07 AM)

Aneirin, maybe I don't understand the question, but it sounds as though you're just talking about humankind's susceptibility to emotional extremes. Which would of course be inherited, because it's genetic. I don't see any reason to believe  people are any angrier than they were a hundred years ago, or a thousand, or ten thousand. People are people, and they were every bit  as weird and as wacky a thousand years ago as they are today.



LaTigresse -> RE: Inherited Anger ? (3/12/2009 12:15:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: UncleNasty

Science continues to reveal new truths. I suppose genetic predispositions to emotional states are possible.

Currently though I view it as more of a "nurture" thing than a "nature" thing.

Uncle Nasty


I believe this to be the case.

I think we all get angry. It just depends upon how we've been taught to deal with it.



Termyn8or -> RE: Inherited Anger ? (3/12/2009 12:47:42 PM)

FR

So we're borrowing the nature/nurture terms from the other thread eh ? It does seem to apply though. There are many problems in discerning which is the more significant influence.

The main problem is obtaining such detailed data on a person's life from day one. While this is practically impossible, it is compounded further by the fact that we can't even be sure what data are significant or not.

I do know this much, those first ten years are very important. Who would have comprehensive data on those times even in their own life ? Science fails us on such matters. Modern science is not cinducted properly, as for one it is tainted by political correctness. Some of it is just plain unbelievable, such as they once claimed to find a gene which would make someone tend to homosexual, while at the same time say that ethnic differences are insignificant. This is the face of, for example, sickle cell anemia.

Science does not always fail us because of ignorance, as stated sometimes the data are simply unavailable. But then there are plenty of cases where [full] siblings are so different not only physically but mentally as well that you would never believe the two were related in any way. Of course unless twins, their early rnvironment must have been slightly different in some ways, of that there is no doubt. But were those differences a significant influence ? The environment changes year to year, but is it enough to matter ?

Then there is the occasional recessive gene, noted to cause physical differences. In light of that noone could really assert that such a gene could not have an effect on one's brain chemistry, something that might not be detected until much later in life. What's more, as much a science does know, they know very little about the interaction of brain chemistry with other factors. In other words did excessive adrenaline levels cause a change in attitude, or is it the other way around ? I know that is simplistic, but find it an acceptable example. It proves nothing except for one thing - that we don't know everything.

Aneirin, I think you might find some answers within yourself. Nobody alse can ever know as much about your life history as you. Start with this, did your Parents have similar problems ? Do any of your siblings (if any) have similar problems. If no siblings what of cousins and such ? Could be a valuable piece of information.

While you must provide the initial data, ther is nothing wrong with bringing it here and letting a few other brains work on it. But that data are needed to form any type of useful hypothesis. If you are speaking in general terms, that is not about yourself, all we have is supposition. That is not a bad thing though. Any scientific theory proven valid, at one time was not.

Speaking in general, there is alot of evidence on both sides. Nature for example, does anyone remember an article about a school student who was allergic to bananas ? Even touching the skin would give this person a violent, even medically imminent reaction. Thus bananas were banned from the whole school. This is the way our archaic society reacts to such problems but that is not the point. Does this persons siblings or forebearers exhibit this same allergy ? And more importantly does it matter ? I believe that the fact that there are alot of spem in a "load" so to speak, as well as many eggs in a womb proves that nature is predisposed to continue diversity, or at least some randomness which is basically why we are not all the same. If not for this factor, isolated groups (or tribes) of humans would be much more vulnerable to becoming inbred, with all of it's associated problems.

And you think the wicket is sticky now, consider the monkey that was shot recently after attacking someone. With a totally different environment, while other monkeys would be hanging around in trees, and who knows what else they do, this one was sitting at the table eating dinner with the family. That is totally nurture, but it failed because of nature.

Which brings up the possibility, though I think it a bit remote in humans, that episodes of anger could be brought on by pherenomes. There was also a case of a Woman wearing perfume with pherenomes who was savagely attacked by a dog for no apparent reason. IIRC the dog had no history of attacking people. What set it off ? What set the monkey off ?

As usual we have more questions than answers. When it comes to human psychology this axiom applies in spades. And I have asserted and believe what I have been saying for a long time, once you get an answer it usually generates at least one new question.

T



DesFIP -> RE: Inherited Anger ? (3/12/2009 1:32:33 PM)

Rage does fall under the mood disorder family and certainly people do inherit mood disorders. I'm fourth generation and there has been some rage in the family. Pretty easily treated as mood disorders go.

But anger as in choosing to hit a spouse or um? That's nurture, not nature.



Aneirin -> RE: Inherited Anger ? (3/12/2009 3:50:02 PM)

quote:

Aneirin, I think you might find some answers within yourself. Nobody alse can ever know as much about your life history as you. Start with this, did your Parents have similar problems ? Do any of your siblings (if any) have similar problems. If no siblings what of cousins and such ? Could be a valuable piece of information.


My case, well, my families case turns out to be an ancestral case, one of my relatives has for the past ten years being searching the family tree and locating offshoots of the family in the US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand, offshoots we prior to my relative's investigation were not known about. As the years passed, the new found relatives spoke to each other and compared notes. One came here last year, a Texan, I met him, he must have been glad to go back. Anyways what was found, is we all seem to have a common core of interests, in which we excel, interests quite often not the norm as their friends go, we all seem to be individuals, i.e. not team players and most of the offspring are winter born, a lot of scorpions. We all seem to have and have had  similar problems and there is reports of a deep something that annoys us, and sometimes prevents us from becoming the best we can be,and it is not an external influence.

Now the relative that conducted this search into our ancestry, was at the time a psychologist and they were investigating why it is the present generation seem to have the same problem, the thought was inherited problems and the idea was that if we can regognise a thing, we can stop a thing and prevent this whatever it is infecting future generations.

It could be of course the problems we have we learned from our parents, and they their parents and so on ad finitum, the way wea are is not our fault, but it is what we learned, this the same as possible inherited problems, if a problem can be recognised, it can be stopped.

Me, I have examined my own issues, I have disssolved most of them, I have no skeletons in cupboards now, but it is a conscious effort to move away from those skeletons, not a natural thing, but a thing fought on a daily basis. Now the anger, my anger comes from injustice, I see injustice, it angers me, but when I push that anger away, there is something else that sits quietly grumbling at the back of the mind, and I just cannot put my finger on what it is, what is this thing called. I find out it's name, and I will deal with it as I have done the rest.



sirsholly -> RE: Inherited Anger ? (3/12/2009 3:53:39 PM)

anger is an emotion we are all born with. But the expression of anger is often a learned behavior



Aneirin -> RE: Inherited Anger ? (3/12/2009 3:56:55 PM)

My anger, the same as the rest of the family, is anger turned inwards, we self destruct, never, or rarely fly out externally. I know to watch that, because it can be disproportional to the cause, probably why we keep it in.



Vendaval -> RE: Inherited Anger ? (3/12/2009 4:00:44 PM)

Temperment can be inherited.  How we learn to deal with our anger is often a result of watching the dynamics within our families.



RealityLicks -> RE: Inherited Anger ? (3/12/2009 4:15:19 PM)

Learning behaviour is not inheriting it.  



TNstepsout -> RE: Inherited Anger ? (3/12/2009 4:28:52 PM)

I used to think it was because my son had a terrible temper, just like his Dad but once he was out of a tense, angry environment, his temper pretty much vanished. I guess his temper was mainly due to anxiety from living with his Dad's temper



Termyn8or -> RE: Inherited Anger ? (3/12/2009 5:17:45 PM)

Agreed Reality, but as in anything else, there are probably enough exceptons to make the books, so to speak. What about an adoptee who lashed out at their host family, even if adopted right at birth ? Even then though, we really can't be sure that their tretment was exactly the same as the others. Again, more questions.

Vend, well put. Some will brood when they get in the mood and others will feel the the time is right to fight.

An, right now all I can say is being aware of the problem is a big part of the battle.

T



domiguy -> RE: Inherited Anger ? (3/12/2009 6:49:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

quote:

ORIGINAL: UncleNasty

Science continues to reveal new truths. I suppose genetic predispositions to emotional states are possible.

Currently though I view it as more of a "nurture" thing than a "nature" thing.

Uncle Nasty


I believe this to be the case.

I think we all get angry. It just depends upon how we've been taught to deal with it.



Disagree to a point.. I believe that we  are somewhat formed when we slide down and out of the holiest of holes.

If brown eyes can be passed down than why not a propensity towards negativism or anger?

There is less and less proof supporting nurture over nature if nothing horribly fucked up happens along the way.

Why are some people touchy feely and others more reserved. Why are some people funny and some more serious?

I have read many reports by parents that have raised adopted as well as their own biological children.  The effect of one's peer group is always an intangible which is difficult to fully understand...however, parents that have claimed to have raised children in an identical manner have seen very different outcomes between those biological kids and their adopted children.  Completely different behavior manifested in virtually identical upbringings.



heartcream -> RE: Inherited Anger ? (3/12/2009 7:40:37 PM)

I have heard about Genetic Inheritance, where you can inherit issues from grandparents, great grand parents you never met. They have began to invent technology to sort through it as well-- pretty fascinating.

I have also heard the body holds every memory of the entire souls history and for some of you you may imagine how rich and resplendent this memory base could be.



Termyn8or -> RE: Inherited Anger ? (3/13/2009 9:56:01 PM)

heart, now you are touching on something termed the superconcious, in a very old book I read. The concept was put forth in a very unamazing style. That nothing is supernatural, and really even the word "occult" merely means that which is hidden. There are no sinister or other connotations except in the eye of the beholder. They explained in detail how many fakes operate, your soothsayers, mediums and so forth. It was very interesting to me because they tried to take a scientific approach, with enough skepicism to go around. They even had a section on palmistry, and the contention on that was that if there is a part of anyone's fate already determined, there is no reason to believe it is false. Not that there is a reason to believe it's true, but they described how to read the palm and I read mine.It was fairly accurate. Of course that does not prove a thing. Show it to me on like a million people and I will give it due consideration, but I had time on my hands. (pun optional)

Strangely though, I have seen changes in my "pattern"or whatever they call it over the years as drastic changes came into my life. It does not convince me, but I'll give it a "hmmmmm".

Now the idea that the human race is somehow connected in a very deeply subconcious way, something that operates well beyond the speed of light, in fact is instatateous, has been put forth. In fact a more recent postulation is that we are actually living on some sort of a substrate in a remote location and life is actually a hologram. This would be best analogized by looking at how a DLP TV set works. Try howstuffworks.com, they are good at explaining things. However unlike a TV set, this is not only three dimensional, but may have a feedback for stimuli. If it is the whole universe inclusive, perhaps all that stimuli actually happens on that substrate or whatever, and there are no external influences because nothing else actually exists except space itself.

No matter what the vehicle of this supposed superconcious, nobody can disprove the existence of the superconcious, or even a deep set connection between members of a species. Evidence of the existence of such a thing exists, but is not conclusive.

How does this relate to this thread ? Well I am the Terminator so here it comes.

Perhaps certain people with certain lineage have their reciever for this "signal" sort of mistuned. This would be nature, not nurture.

Hey, look at the bright side, being unable to answer this quest means we have not created more subsequent questions.

T



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