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RE: China's concerns about the dollar's value - 3/14/2009 11:43:56 AM   
SpinnerofTales


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Status: offline 		Not to interrupt the talk of gloom and doom and Armageddon, but we WERE talking about Chinese investments in the USA.

Now I personally think that the Chinese are the perfect customers for US debt. They invest a huge amount of money. Then, an hour later, they want to invest again.

Political incorrectness is an art form


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RE: China's concerns about the dollar's value - 3/14/2009 11:50:32 AM   
UPSG


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

China is in the midst of a massive stimulus program of its own.  Silly saber-rattling.  I doubt it's unrelated to the naval episode the other day.


Interesting.

I know Brazil is or has introduced a stimulus program as well.

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RE: China's concerns about the dollar's value - 3/14/2009 12:16:52 PM   
slaveboyforyou


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quote:

Now I personally think that the Chinese are the perfect customers for US debt. They invest a huge amount of money. Then, an hour later, they want to invest again.


Unless they get scared and decide to cash in early.  People really don't understand what a dangerous game Obama and Co. are playing with the Chinese in terms of our economy. 

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RE: China's concerns about the dollar's value - 3/14/2009 2:28:14 PM   
4u2spoil


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

quote:

Now I personally think that the Chinese are the perfect customers for US debt. They invest a huge amount of money. Then, an hour later, they want to invest again.


Unless they get scared and decide to cash in early.  People really don't understand what a dangerous game Obama and Co. are playing with the Chinese in terms of our economy. 


They didn't get to holding $1trillion in debt in the 2 months Obama's been in office. And the dollar hit its historic lows (against the pound and euro) sometime last year. Different guy in charge then.

Sometimes you're dealt a crap hand and still have to play. Let's just hope that the current White House occupant can keep the house of cards up long enough to get some chips behind it.

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RE: China's concerns about the dollar's value - 3/14/2009 2:49:01 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

Now I personally think that the Chinese are the perfect customers for US debt. They invest a huge amount of money. Then, an hour later, they want to invest again.



Unless they get scared and decide to cash in early. People really don't understand what a dangerous game Obama and Co. are playing with the Chinese in terms of our economy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

quote:

Now I personally think that the Chinese are the perfect customers for US debt. They invest a huge amount of money. Then, an hour later, they want to invest again.


Unless they get scared and decide to cash in early.  People really don't understand what a dangerous game Obama and Co. are playing with the Chinese in terms of our economy. 


I just love it when an obvious joke sails out over the crowd and comes crashing to earth.

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RE: China's concerns about the dollar's value - 3/14/2009 2:49:26 PM   
slaveboyforyou


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quote:

They didn't get to holding $1trillion in debt in the 2 months Obama's been in office. And the dollar hit its historic lows (against the pound and euro) sometime last year. Different guy in charge then.

Sometimes you're dealt a crap hand and still have to play. Let's just hope that the current White House occupant can keep the house of cards up long enough to get some chips behind it.


When you're in debt, you don't go out and borrow more money.  Only fools get another credit card to pay off the other ones they maxed out.  It doesn't matter who's fault it is, and it doesn't matter what happened last year.  The dollar can hit even bigger lows; and when you print more money without anything to back it up, that is exactly what happens. 

BTW, last year the Democrats controlled Congress.  The Executive Branch isn't in charge; our government is made up of three equal branches. 

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RE: China's concerns about the dollar's value - 3/14/2009 2:57:22 PM   
slvemike4u


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Status: offline 		In theory slaveboy ......in theory only.Unless the other branch ,in this case the legislative is willing to stand up and defy the executive( in the case of the past administration Rove and Cheney)what you wind up with is a rubber stamp for all sorts of questionable policies.

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RE: China's concerns about the dollar's value - 3/14/2009 3:16:48 PM   
slaveboyforyou


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Status: offline 		In theory nothing, Mike.  The Democratic controlled Congress could have stopped the Iraq War years ago by simply withdrawing funding.  But what did they do?  They bitched and moaned, but they didn't do one damn thing to stop it.  They took back Congress for that reason, and they blew it.  Our current economic crisis lays at the feet of both parties.  So I get a little tired of any criticism of Obama's policies being answered with, "Well Bush did this, and Bush did that."  Yeah, he did do a buch of stupid things.  But Congress is supposed to provide checks and balances to the Presidency.  They didn't, and they are just as much to blame. 

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RE: China's concerns about the dollar's value - 3/14/2009 3:22:24 PM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

In theory nothing, Mike.  The Democratic controlled Congress could have stopped the Iraq War years ago by simply withdrawing funding.  But what did they do?  They bitched and moaned, but they didn't do one damn thing to stop it.  They took back Congress for that reason, and they blew it.  Our current economic crisis lays at the feet of both parties.  So I get a little tired of any criticism of Obama's policies being answered with, "Well Bush did this, and Bush did that."  Yeah, he did do a buch of stupid things.  But Congress is supposed to provide checks and balances to the Presidency.  They didn't, and they are just as much to blame. 
And your responce proves my post slaveboy,they didn't exercise their responsibility therefore in the case of Cheney,Rove and Bush they had a free hand to drive the bus right off the cliff.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: China's concerns about the dollar's value - 3/14/2009 3:25:37 PM   
4u2spoil


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

When you're in debt, you don't go out and borrow more money.  Only fools get another credit card to pay off the other ones they maxed out.  It doesn't matter who's fault it is, and it doesn't matter what happened last year.  The dollar can hit even bigger lows; and when you print more money without anything to back it up, that is exactly what happens. 

BTW, last year the Democrats controlled Congress.  The Executive Branch isn't in charge; our government is made up of three equal branches. 

quote:


People really don't understand what a dangerous game Obama and Co. are playing with the Chinese in terms of our economy.

Emphasis mine. So why not attribute it to Congress? Obama didn't start the Chinese borrowing. Whether he should continue is debatable, but to suggest that his administration is responsible for the current economic position isn't reasonable.

Agreed about the threat of inflation though. That was part of the problem last year. People were beginning to realize the emperor wasn't wearing any clothes (i.e. houses weren't worth what was claimed, there weren't that many millionaires, and people really couldn't afford all the made in China stuff they were buying). I don't think the solution is to get people throwing dollars around at the unsustainable levels they were at, but there has to be some movement. Right now there's too much fear and to get people spending will require some level of government spending. Not an ideal situation to be in at all, and the medicine will taste bitter going down, but it has to be done.

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RE: China's concerns about the dollar's value - 3/14/2009 3:44:00 PM   
UPSG


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

quote:

They didn't get to holding $1trillion in debt in the 2 months Obama's been in office. And the dollar hit its historic lows (against the pound and euro) sometime last year. Different guy in charge then.

Sometimes you're dealt a crap hand and still have to play. Let's just hope that the current White House occupant can keep the house of cards up long enough to get some chips behind it.


When you're in debt, you don't go out and borrow more money.  Only fools get another credit card to pay off the other ones they maxed out.  It doesn't matter who's fault it is, and it doesn't matter what happened last year.  The dollar can hit even bigger lows; and when you print more money without anything to back it up, that is exactly what happens. 


In national economies you do. At least sometimes.

The dollar has not been backed by anything for a long time. The U.S. dollar is "backed" by the "good name" of the United States or that is to say... other nations confidence in both the dollar and U.S. economy.

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RE: China's concerns about the dollar's value - 3/14/2009 3:52:19 PM   
slaveboyforyou


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quote:

The U.S. dollar is "backed" by the "good name" of the United States or that is to say... other nations confidence in both the dollar and U.S. economy.


I'm aware of this, and here's the problem.  China expresses her concerns over the dollar's value for a reason; they want a return on their investment.  Now, we want to borrow more from them.  When we spend, spend, spend the dollar risks going down in value.  If it goes down enough, the Chinese may just decide to cut their losses and cash in their bonds.  Say goodbye to confidence in the U.S. dollar.  We can have a close up view of what it was like during the Weimar Republic when the German currency tanked. 

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RE: China's concerns about the dollar's value - 3/14/2009 4:05:15 PM   
4u2spoil


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou
If it goes down enough, the Chinese may just decide to cut their losses and cash in their bonds.  Say goodbye to confidence in the U.S. dollar.


What China says in public may express the views of some held in private, but I guarantee you the Chinese aren't stupid enough to short the dollar right now. With the Eurozone being in similar trouble, there's not enough nations who could replace the US as China's main market. Something like that old saying of not cutting your nose to spite your face.

They may be thumbing their nose, but unless they want to bleed it won't be more than that. What I'd worry about is them propping things up jusssst long enough for things to recover and pulling the rug out a few billion at a time.



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RE: China's concerns about the dollar's value - 3/14/2009 4:45:24 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

quote:

Now I personally think that the Chinese are the perfect customers for US debt. They invest a huge amount of money. Then, an hour later, they want to invest again.


Unless they get scared and decide to cash in early.  People really don't understand what a dangerous game Obama and Co. are playing with the Chinese in terms of our economy. 


No shit?

And you mean this just started 7 weeks ago?

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: China's concerns about the dollar's value - 3/14/2009 5:47:12 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

I just love it when an obvious joke sails out over the crowd and comes crashing to earth.



No, no, don't despair. It didn't crash to earth - I caught it! We need a rimshot smiley here....


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In the forest of the night
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RE: China's concerns about the dollar's value - 3/14/2009 6:24:07 PM   
slaveboyforyou


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quote:

No shit?

And you mean this just started 7 weeks ago? 


The new pork laden stimulus bill and Obama's spending did, yeah.  The Chinese seem to worried about it.  It's what the thread's about or did you not read all the posts?

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RE: China's concerns about the dollar's value - 3/14/2009 6:58:00 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 4u2spoil

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou
If it goes down enough, the Chinese may just decide to cut their losses and cash in their bonds.  Say goodbye to confidence in the U.S. dollar.


What China says in public may express the views of some held in private, but I guarantee you the Chinese aren't stupid enough to short the dollar right now. With the Eurozone being in similar trouble, there's not enough nations who could replace the US as China's main market. Something like that old saying of not cutting your nose to spite your face.

They may be thumbing their nose, but unless they want to bleed it won't be more than that. What I'd worry about is them propping things up jusssst long enough for things to recover and pulling the rug out a few billion at a time.





You're right. They're not idiots. They'll do what they need to do to ensure they get their money back and to leverage their investment to achieve maximum strategic advantage in their regional political interests, and not much more than that.

In fact, that's all this shot across the bow really is. They're the Chinese, for god's sake. This is what they do. Everything - I mean everything - is a chess game to them. Obama's the new kid on the block, still wet behind the ears in the arena of foreign affairs, and they want to establish a strong position going into the summit and at the same time see how he deals with this sort of gambit. I'd only be concerned if they hadn't done something like this, because then I'd be worried about what they were really up to.

< Message edited by ThatDamnedPanda -- 3/14/2009 7:00:41 PM >

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RE: China's concerns about the dollar's value - 3/14/2009 7:49:13 PM   
OrionTheWolf


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Status: offline 		So this tells us what they are doing? Wasn't there some famous Chinese General that said something about make noise like thunder in the north and attack in the south? This does not tell us much, other than they want the US to know they are concerned and likely to not lend more money unless we show some responsibility with their investment.


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

I'd only be concerned if they hadn't done something like this, because then I'd be worried about what they were really up to.


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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: China's concerns about the dollar's value - 3/14/2009 9:09:56 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

In theory nothing, Mike. The Democratic controlled Congress could have stopped the Iraq War years ago by simply withdrawing funding.ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou


They also could have taken off their pants and waved their wieners to the Marine marching band playing The Star Spangled Banner. But it wouldn't have been a very good idea.

First of all, cutting off funding would have been political suicide. The Democrats were already being tarred by the Bush administration as anti-American, anti-Patriotic lovers of terrorists who were being disloyal to this country every time they questioned the war. To cut off funding to the troops would have been played into a political matter that would have swept every damned one of them out of office and perhaps gotten them ridden out of town on a rail.

Second, to cut off the funding wouldn't have by any means assured that the troops came back home. It would have just meant that they would have been fighting in a foreign country without a reliable supply line. The support of our troops was already a shame and a disgrace (there is no reason a soldier in the field should have to pay for his own body armor to be shipped from home). And who knows how many soldiers Bush would have let die to prove his point.

The president is the commander in chief. When he says he's going to war, we're going to war. To say that the Democratic congress could have stopped this by cutting off funding is simply misstating realities.


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RE: China's concerns about the dollar's value - 3/15/2009 1:44:07 AM   
awmslave


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Status: offline 		I do not feel sorry about China. US and China situation is the result of execution of certain economics during several decades. US and Chinese goverments probably have known at least 10 years that at some point the policy will end up where we are now. China got US advanced technology and high employment, US got lot of corporate billionaires, stagnant wages for lower classes and massive public debt.  

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