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Submissive by Default in social situations? - 1/24/2006 1:28:08 AM

typesgirl

Posts: 102
Joined: 10/17/2004
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Recently Master and I have been discussing how I should address other Doms when I meet them in person and how I should treat them. I let him know that I wasn’t sure how comfortable I was in being default submissive-respectful (more than just typical social politeness but “Sir” and “Master” treatment) with Doms I didn’t really know. Do they automatically deserve that treatment because they are dominant even if they aren’t dominant to me? I will, of course, always be polite but do I have to call them “Sir”? I believe that title and level of respect is earned and that I should know the Dom in question before I refer to them in that way. I’m sure that Doms I meet don’t automatically assume I will submit to them so why should they assume that I would treat them as a Dom if they don’t assume that they can treat me as a sub?

The more we talked about it, the more I understood Master’s position on the subject. He says I’m His “little ass-kicker” because I’m intellectually feisty (though always friendly) and that He likes seeing me keep up with people and matching them in wits and wants me to be that way with all people we meet. He believes I should only be submissive to Him and that’s what makes O/our bond special.

I’m incredibly flattered by His view of me as a smart, feisty woman who can match wits with the smartest of them and I want to continue to do that.

I know it’s been discussed here about being submissive to Doms as kind of a default but this seems a little more complex. I’m especially concerned with the fact that most of the clubs we can attend are frequented by Gorians who expect a bit more submission from their slaves (to say the least hahaha) and that I might be seen as bratty or not submissive just for being myself.

Any comments or advice would be great.

typesgirl
"Life is too important to be taken seriously" - Oscar Wilde

Post #: 1

RE: Submissive by Default in social situations? - 1/24/2006 2:51:40 AM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

Respect works both ways and I'm one who doesn't appreciate just any sub addressing me as 'Sir'.... When it happens, I realise it's meant with best intentions and I'm equally polite in requesting her to use my name. Only *my girl* calls me 'Sir' and only me, not other Doms.

Everyone decides how their own individual relationship dynamic works and though I'm naturally friendly and polite to others, it's no-one's business how I do things and I couldn't care less what Goreans or anyone else thinks or expects. I do NOT address anyone as "Sir', 'Master', 'Mistress" or whatever self-proclaimed title they choose to adopt and I fully expect my girl to follow my example - if she can't use their name, she won't be talking to them; simple....

Focus.

(in reply to typesgirl)

Post #: 2

RE: Submissive by Default in social situations? - 1/24/2006 3:42:51 AM

sunshine333

Posts: 203
Joined: 8/16/2005
Status: offline

well, fortunately, you don't have to think or worry too much about this. the decision, i'm sure, will be up to your Master. if he decides you should just be your normal fiesty self ... then remember that it's only him that you need to concern yourself with pleasing. and if he decides that you should give more of a show of respect, then put on the act, knowing, again ... that you'll be doing so to please your Master.

there's nothing complicated about this. enjoy.

humbly,
sunshine

(in reply to typesgirl)

Post #: 3

RE: Submissive by Default in social situations? - 1/24/2006 5:24:17 AM

orfunboi

Posts: 1223
Joined: 10/22/2005
Status: offline

i use Sir and Ma'am when meeting new people. It does not mean i am submissive to them, it's just the way i was raised. If after time someone shows me, that they are idiots and do not deserve any respect, then i usually just ignore them. It has come in handy when i can't remember somone's name, i just say "hi Sir" and they never know the difference. They way i act in public is a direct reflection on the Domme's i have learned from, and i would not want that reflection to be poor.

(in reply to typesgirl)

Post #: 4

RE: Submissive by Default in social situations? - 1/24/2006 5:49:12 AM

Slipstreme

Posts: 817
Joined: 1/1/2006
Status: offline

I am for the most part anything but submissive, and I also adress people as Ma'am and Sir out of general respect, due to how I was raised. Once I get to know them, or they tend to be my age in an informal setting, I drop the titles, plain and simple. I also don't use titles online.

To me, Sir and Ma'am are just polite, and rather, don't display any authority over me for using them. But calling someone any other title would be way out. Simply put, no! In fact, that is the surest way of ticking me off is someone who demands to be called by a title.

I rarely even use titles when Im the submissive with my skunk. He is lucky when we switch AND he gets to hear the title Master.

_____________________________

Living the Dichotomy

Painslut? How about "Endorphin Junkie"?

For information about "the furry thing" please check out my profile journal entry for: 1/17/2006

Alpha of a leather family of four. Master to the slave z.

(in reply to orfunboi)

Post #: 5

RE: Submissive by Default in social situations? - 1/24/2006 5:59:42 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: typesgirl
I’m sure that Doms I meet don’t automatically assume I will submit to them so why should they assume that I would treat them as a Dom if they don’t assume that they can treat me as a sub?

Many people view dominant as a social title, and thus deserving of a social recognition.

I personally view dominant as a personal relationship orientation, and thus has nothing to do with social interactions.

The real question is- how on earth are you going to tell who is dom and who isn't? How would you treat switches? Are you going to have a sign on your chest that says "Please let me know if you are a dom so I can treat you differently"? And what about when you interact in vanilla social situations? Will there be different sets of behaviors?

Gets quite complicated. It's really not always easy to tell who is dom or sub or switch in the real world, even in a scene.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to typesgirl)

Post #: 6

RE: Submissive by Default in social situations? - 1/24/2006 6:01:04 AM

MysticalPhoenix

Posts: 212
Joined: 11/30/2005
From: Kelloggsville, Vanilla County MI
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: orfunboi

i use Sir and Ma'am when meeting new people. It does not mean i am submissive to them, it's just the way i was raised.

Thanks for bring that up, orfunboi. I was brought up that way, as well. My parents believed in good manners and treating people who you don't know with great politeness. I always address strangers that I haven't been introduced to as Sir and Ma'am, "Excuse me, Ma'am, do you know what time it is?". People higher up the food chain at work are always Sir and Ma'am, if I don't know their names, Mr/Mrs/Ms if I do, unless and until they give me permission to call them Bob, Mary, etc.

I supposed that I would offend Focus50, if I saw something on the floor that I thought was his, didn't know his name and said "Excuse me, Sir, I believe you dropped your...?" I would hope that he'd understand I was merely being polite to a stranger, not giving him some sort of self-proclaimed title.

I expect any boy of mine to treat all other people in the scene (or anywhere else) with the same type of politness. If people don't like that he does so, they can either be polite or they can complain to me about it.

Phoenix

_____________________________

---------------------------------------------------------
Every one sees what you appear to be, few really know what you are.

(in reply to orfunboi)

Post #: 7

RE: Submissive by Default in social situations? - 1/24/2006 8:56:04 AM

xxblushesxx

Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
Status: offline

I am absolutely positive that Focus knows the difference between polite and subserviant. He seems quite capable of making that distinction.

And yes, I agree, I use sir and maam with most strangers, and don't think they think I am 'serving' them.

(in reply to MysticalPhoenix)

Post #: 8

RE: Submissive by Default in social situations? - 1/24/2006 9:02:43 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

I would say that in general you should follow the rules set out by your master and yoursef except in the following case: you attend an event/party/club/etc where there are different rules laid out. In that case I think one makes the choice to obey the stated rules or one does not go into that venue.

Now if the rules are not stated but "expected" then I think your master (or the dominant person) needs to be able to stand up for his/her rules if you or he/she is confronted by someone expecting different behavior. I further think that a person hearing said rules from your master would then respect them as a way to respect your relationship (someone they probably want themselves from others). A person not respecting your dominant's rules for you then would get judged by me and ignored by me and mine.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to typesgirl)

Post #: 9

RE: Submissive by Default in social situations? - 1/24/2006 9:34:06 AM

ScorpGirl444

Posts: 19
Joined: 1/20/2006
Status: offline

I think what some people are missing here is that typesgirl is speaking of knowing she is going to meet Doms and not just any people.

I'm sure in regular social situations she is fully aware of how to address people she is just meeting, whether it be the way her Master or she has decided it will happen.

Personally...

No matter who I am meeting, no one automatically gets treated with any more respect than the next person. Male, female, Dom, sub....I don't care. I don't know you and therefore I have no idea if you even deserve any extra respect.
With our lifestyle being more in the open to the general public, there are so many people out there claiming to be Dominant (or submissive) when really they have no idea what it even means. Would you want to give these people more respect just because they say they are dominant? Wouldn't you want to make sure they are actually worth the title of Sir or Ma'am?

I honestly believe that throwing around titles such as Sir or Ma'am is just as bad as throwing around "I love you." Obviously they don't mean the same thing but both carry the same amount of weight.

Now.

Coming from NJ for my entire life (Northern), the use of Sir or Ma'am as politeness never really caught on. Everyone's name is some sort of curse word until we actually meet and I learn your name. We're known for giving the one finger salute. Being proper is just not part of my area. When I meet someone for the first time, we exchange first names and politely say...nice to meet you, Joe.

Anyways...

As long as you discuss with your Master how you are feeling and about your concerns and he actually listens and acknowledges, you should be fine. This is not to say that you're going to get your way as it will still be up to him how you will address them. It's just always nice to know that your opinion was heard, acknowledged and a decision was made with that knowledge.

~Scorp~

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 10

RE: Submissive by Default in social situations? - 1/24/2006 10:42:18 AM

typesgirl

Posts: 102
Joined: 10/17/2004
Status: offline

Thanks to all and especially to ScorpGirl for understand what I was asking.

Really my question is not at all about how to address people. I think I worded it incorrectly. I'm not so much concerned about titles as much as I am concerned about behavior. I realize that the last word on the acceptability of my behavior lies with my Master and His opinion overrides all others.

I guess I was just curious if Doms are insulted by sassy and feisty (NOT BRATTY) subs who are not theirs. I've not been in big groups at conventions etc.

I think I have my answer, though. Regardless of how I behave there will be those who understand and those who jump to conclusions and judgements so I'll do what makes me and my Master happy and move on in pursuit of my own bliss.

typesgirl

(in reply to ScorpGirl444)

Post #: 11

RE: Submissive by Default in social situations? - 1/24/2006 10:48:37 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: typesgirl

Thanks to all and especially to ScorpGirl for understand what I was asking.

Really my question is not at all about how to address people. I think I worded it incorrectly. I'm not so much concerned about titles as much as I am concerned about behavior. I realize that the last word on the acceptability of my behavior lies with my Master and His opinion overrides all others.

I guess I was just curious if Doms are insulted by sassy and feisty (NOT BRATTY) subs who are not theirs. I've not been in big groups at conventions etc.

I think I have my answer, though. Regardless of how I behave there will be those who understand and those who jump to conclusions and judgements so I'll do what makes me and my Master happy and move on in pursuit of my own bliss.

typesgirl

Fox fits into the feisty category by some people's standards but he was raised by his parents to call strangers "sir" or "ma'am" when he first meets them -- beyond that he won't call them by another other title.

I think your question also depends on what you mean by sassy and feisty. It is having an opinion, getting involved in conversations, flirting, what exactly. If I have a some examples, I could give you my initial take on how I'd react and I'm certain others would do the same. Then you could get a feel for the variety.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to typesgirl)

Post #: 12

RE: Submissive by Default in social situations? - 1/24/2006 11:04:06 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: typesgirl
I guess I was just curious if Doms are insulted by sassy and feisty (NOT BRATTY) subs who are not theirs. I've not been in big groups at conventions etc.

As long as you try to be conscious of making sure your feistiness goes towards making everyone comfortable, that your enthusiasm goes towards making everyone feel at ease and that your sass is mostly directed towards your own self in an amusing self-depracating way...you should get along fine.

It's not the sassiness that makes a person ill-mannered...it's the self-conceit and neediness for the spotlight to be on them to the exclusion of comfort and enjoyability of those around them.

And again, I really suggest you stop caring about "doms" versus "all others" In groups in conventions there will be anyone and everyone of orientation you can think of.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to typesgirl)

Post #: 13

RE: Submissive by Default in social situations? - 1/24/2006 12:03:37 PM

Sensualips

Posts: 1013
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

I guess I was just curious if Doms are insulted by sassy and feisty (NOT BRATTY) subs who are not theirs. I've not been in big groups at conventions etc.

I know very few people insulted by spirit, as long as it is tempered with friendliness and general politeness. I guess it depends if you are feisty-fun or plain tacky.

I also would be less concerned about what others in general thought and more concerned about the expectations of my own Dom. But if you are going to be concerned about others, there are submissives that might be have a bad impression if you were too attention seeking or gave the impression that being "default-submisive respectful" somehow meant they were not as smart or able to match wits.

Just relax and enjoy yourself.

(in reply to typesgirl)

Post #: 14

RE: Submissive by Default in social situations? - 1/24/2006 1:26:19 PM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: typesgirl

I know it’s been discussed here about being submissive to Doms as kind of a default but this seems a little more complex. I’m especially concerned with the fact that most of the clubs we can attend are frequented by Gorians who expect a bit more submission from their slaves (to say the least hahaha) and that I might be seen as bratty or not submissive just for being myself.

Any comments or advice would be great.

typesgirl
"Life is too important to be taken seriously" - Oscar Wilde

As a Gorean Master, I'd expect you to be somewhat polite and treat me the way other non Gorean sub/slaves do anyway. No judgement to be made regardig your behaviour or demenour if you are acting as your Master desires. In other words, you may be a sub/slave but you are not my sub/slave. You are a pretty girl, I'd do what us members of the Gorean Old Farts Brigade (I'm the founder and President) do, which is to sit and watch all the pretty girls go through their paces and have fun with their Dominants be they Gorean or non Gorean.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to typesgirl)

Post #: 15

RE: Submissive by Default in social situations? - 1/24/2006 3:16:42 PM

Smythe

Posts: 369
Joined: 12/31/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: typesgirl

Thanks to all and especially to ScorpGirl for understand what I was asking.

Really my question is not at all about how to address people. I think I worded it incorrectly. I'm not so much concerned about titles as much as I am concerned about behavior. I realize that the last word on the acceptability of my behavior lies with my Master and His opinion overrides all others.

I guess I was just curious if Doms are insulted by sassy and feisty (NOT BRATTY) subs who are not theirs. I've not been in big groups at conventions etc.

I think I have my answer, though. Regardless of how I behave there will be those who understand and those who jump to conclusions and judgements so I'll do what makes me and my Master happy and move on in pursuit of my own bliss.

typesgirl

Honestly, I wouldn't care if doms are insulted by sassy and feisty behavior. if they expect deference from a submissive who is not their submissive, then they are unworthy of respect beyond plain civility. Anyone can declare themselves dominant, many do...does this make them worthy of any special treatment from you?

If your master feels differently, perhaps believing that your behavior reflects somehow on him, then that's different. Otherwise, I say be polite and your feisty self!!

Smythe

_____________________________

Do not consider painful what is good for you.
Euripides

(in reply to typesgirl)

Post #: 16

RE: Submissive by Default in social situations? - 1/24/2006 7:46:09 PM

ImpGrrl

Posts: 575
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: orfunboi

i use Sir and Ma'am when meeting new people. It does not mean i am submissive to them, it's just the way i was raised. If after time someone shows me, that they are idiots and do not deserve any respect, then i usually just ignore them. It has come in handy when i can't remember somone's name, i just say "hi Sir" and they never know the difference. They way i act in public is a direct reflection on the Domme's i have learned from, and i would not want that reflection to be poor.

If you use it when meeting *people*, I'll buy the "how I was raised" bit. If it's *D-types*, I don't buy it.

Not picking on you specifically - I've just seen this used as a valid (see, "people" above) and an *invalid* (see "D-types", above) excuse many times, and that's the potential issue I have with it.

(in reply to orfunboi)

Post #: 17

RE: Submissive by Default in social situations? - 1/24/2006 8:12:27 PM

ProtagonistLily

Posts: 1222
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

The more we talked about it, the more I understood Master’s position on the subject. He says I’m His “little ass-kicker” because I’m intellectually feisty (though always friendly) and that He likes seeing me keep up with people and matching them in wits and wants me to be that way with all people we meet. He believes I should only be submissive to Him and that’s what makes O/our bond special.

I’m incredibly flattered by His view of me as a smart, feisty woman who can match wits with the smartest of them and I want to continue to do that.

I know it’s been discussed here about being submissive to Doms as kind of a default but this seems a little more complex. I’m especially concerned with the fact that most of the clubs we can attend are frequented by Gorians who expect a bit more submission from their slaves (to say the least hahaha) and that I might be seen as bratty or not submissive just for being myself.

Any comments or advice would be great.

typesgirl
"Life is too important to be taken seriously" - Oscar Wilde

We sound like we are cut from the same cloth....

However, Sir doesn't expect me to defer to just anyone. Frankly, he is always on me not to 'take that kind of shit' regardless of whether someone is Dominant. I think the most valuable thing I've ever learned is, anyone can *say* they are Dominant. Actions speak louder than words.

There are a few that I have come to respect enough to defer to. Otherwise, by the very virture of the fact that they have no claim on me, I treat them like I would treat anyone else in a social situation: courteously, but without any special privledges.

Sir treats me like his car. He wants me shiny and pretty and god help the bastage that expects to drive me ~grin~

Kassie

_____________________________

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
~Dr. Seuss~

(in reply to typesgirl)

Post #: 18

RE: Submissive by Default in social situations? - 1/24/2006 8:40:19 PM

veronicaofML

Posts: 1317
Joined: 11/19/2005
From: from iowa..now in wisconsin
Status: offline

he he lol giggles chuckles.

i just be myself no matter where i am or why..
hey dudes...

or hey lady...
yo mister

hey yo girl...

i dont go in for all that hoo rahing for sirs n ma'ams n such unless i absolutely have to.

i hate it when anyone calls me sir..
just say hey yo lil dude

_____________________________

drugs sex and rock n roll,...drugs are good and so is the rock n roll, sex is over rated"
=============
"go straight to hell, do not pass go and do not collect $200"

(in reply to ProtagonistLily)

Post #: 19

RE: Submissive by Default in social situations? - 1/24/2006 8:46:43 PM

NakedOnMyChain

Posts: 2431
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: Indiana
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: typesgirl

I know it’s been discussed here about being submissive to Doms as kind of a default but this seems a little more complex. I’m especially concerned with the fact that most of the clubs we can attend are frequented by Gorians who expect a bit more submission from their slaves (to say the least hahaha) and that I might be seen as bratty or not submissive just for being myself.

I am very guilty of the "you're not my dom" syndrome, and I wouldn't have it any other way. Like you, I feel that master is a status that is earned. If someone is not my master, my elder by at least thirty years, or an official authority figure (i.e. police, county clerk, etc.) I will not refer to them as sir. I will behave politely and with all due respect, but sir, lord and master are titles reserved solely for my own master or select others. It is not a title that is due to all men who claim themselves as dominant. If I get to know a dominant rather well over a long period of time and I have great respect for them I will call them sir. But once again it is a label that is earned.

As to people's opinions of you for upholding a semi-ethical tenet, don't worry about it. It's better to walk away from a conversation with self-respect than to kow tow to a dominant that you don't respect. (And chances are, the ones that would get their panties in a knot over something that small are the ones you wouldn't respect.)

_____________________________

"Oh, it's torture, but I'm almost there."
~The Cure

"I ask for so little. Just fear me, love me, do as I say, and I will be your slave."
~The Labyrinth

(in reply to typesgirl)

Post #: 20

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