Do you have a demarcation line between your personal and sexual life? (Full Version)

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LAgirlsub -> Do you have a demarcation line between your personal and sexual life? (3/16/2009 4:07:34 AM)

I’ve never been a submissive or a slave before…I met a Mistress online, we spoke for many months, I told her sexual thoughts/feelings I’ve never expressed to anyone and then she suddenly pulled away because she said I’m too emotional. I don’t deny I can be emotional but it’s not until she left me a very brief good-bye message that she said she does not combine her personal life and her sex life.

I want to preface I never asked her anything either inappropriate or that I was ever looking for a romantic relationship. This is all new to me, I’m gay and honestly to me sex – do I call this just sex? – is better when you know someone, at least somewhat. I opened up to her more thinking that would lead to a better experience for both of us, trust needs to build, it can’t be ordered and that maybe she’d be just a little more open. I realize that this is a Mistress/sub relationship so if she doesn’t want to talk to me, she won’t. I truly just tried to learn more, what I think might be my interests/boundaries and so I shared my feelings. I’m sure at times I opened up too much, talking about my personal life, but again I never suggested anything regarding a romantic relationship.

My questions are: Is a Mistress/sub relationship without sensuality? She said I’m never to touch her without permission (and I’m very sensual). Do you want to know your subs on a personal level? Is this how it is, that we’re talking just about sex and we are not to know each other on a personal/emotional level of any kind? Or is this just the preference of this Mistress? I’m truly confused and honestly a little disappointed. I feel like I worked hard for several months opening myself up to something I’ve never experienced, that I’m interested in trying, I meant it that I wanted to try to please her but she truly had no interest in actually knowing anything about me. I know I’m just guessing here, but again is this common or is this maybe a problem or fear she has of intimacy?

Can you be intimate with your subs? How do you define intimacy?

So to all the Mistresses, could you tell me do you want to know your subs? Do you, I realize this is very generalized, have empathy when it comes to someone new to the scene, unsure of what they will or won’t like?

Twice over the many months, she said she didn’t want to hurt me emotionally. I wrote one of my last emails to her asking to meet me just once in person. I do feel badly if I never meet this woman in person – that she becomes real – who I’ve told so many very personal, sexual details to. She hasn’t answered me and I guess she won’t. I wish her actions followed her words and it makes me wonder how she would treat me in reality.

And I wonder…I’m not sure if I’m just looking for a femme, dominant woman or a Mistress. Is there an easier way to find out?

I really appreciate any advice/thoughts/suggestions from everyone. Thanks so much.
-Elizabeth.




PeonForHer -> RE: Do you have a demarcation line between your personal and sexual life? (3/16/2009 6:23:44 AM)

LAgirl,

This seems so sad.  I can't see that you did anything wrong other than to put too much trust in the authenticity of an online relationship. 

Can you be intimate with your subs?
That was a question that bothered me, for my own purposes, once.  I answered it in the affirmative, eventually.  You don't need to put up with a 'cold' relationship with a femdom.  So, How do you define intimacy? isn't a question that need arise - any more than it would with a non-D/s partnership.

In short: I think the main problem is that you've had some bad luck with your recent experience.  You sound great.  I'd say: stick to who you are.  I think there are femdoms around who not only want someone just like you, but actually demand someone like you and won't accept anything less.





LaTigresse -> RE: Do you have a demarcation line between your personal and sexual life? (3/16/2009 7:37:32 AM)

Oh good grief! Please do not assume that all of us are like the woman you are describing!

I want a girl to open herself to me, especially emotionally. Except for things that are inappropriate in specific settings, I want her to feel she can touch me. I cannot imagine the cold and distant situation this woman is describing. My ultimate goal is to have someone living with me, she would be a big part of my personal life.




thishereboi -> RE: Do you have a demarcation line between your personal and sexual life? (3/16/2009 7:50:10 AM)

Find some local groups and munches and meet people off line. Your profile says your in the LA area so that should not be a problem. For me personally, I will not have sex with someone unless we already have an emotional relationship. From your post this lady sounds like bad news and I would be glad I found that out before I put anymore work into the relationship. If you have trouble meeting people at the local events you could also try volunteering to help at them. I have found that is a quick way to meet people and learn at the same time.




undergroundsea -> RE: Do you have a demarcation line between your personal and sexual life? (3/16/2009 9:01:36 AM)

There are many--dominants and submissives--for whom BDSM is a part of sexual and romantic expression, and of intimacy. There are some for whom BDSM is separate from the type of intimacy one might have with a companion or a primary partner. I think you did nothing wrong and it was a case of speaking with a person who was incompatible with respect to what she sought, or did not see the type of compatibility you might wish to have.

One point I will add is that it would be a good idea to see that your passion or wants for BDSM are not confused as passion for a person who presents an opportunity to realize these wants. I am not suggesting that such a scenario occurred in the situation at hand and state this idea simply as a general comment.

Cheers,

Sea




ShaktiSama -> RE: Do you have a demarcation line between your personal and sexual life? (3/16/2009 9:08:40 AM)

There are many people who cannot dominate someone they are emotionally involved with--we hear about it on these forums all the time. For whatever reason, the will to dominate in those folks comes from a different and contradictory place than any capacity for love they might have.

NOT all dominants are this way. I would generally recommend that you avoid such people, since obviously your submissive sexuality and your ability to love are NOT kept in separate boxes.

Speaking for myself--I am not a domme of the "Ice Queen" variety. I am a warm person and I enjoy giving and receiving physical affection. How each woman balances the intimacy and authority in her life is very individual, I suspect. I think in this case you were just dealing with someone who needed a fantasy in her life, and wasn't terribly interested in a living, breathing reality with needs and feelings of her own.

There are many, many such people on the Internet. This is the main reason that I never waste time with any kind of "cyber-domination", email-tease BS, cam play or e-chat with anyone that I have not already met in person and established a REAL, face-to-face intimate relationship with. People on the Internet should be assumed to be fictional until they prove otherwise.






MadameMarque -> RE: Do you have a demarcation line between your personal and sexual life? (3/16/2009 9:30:40 AM)

You spoke for months, but she had no interest in meeting in person - not even in order for you to serve her nonsexually and impersonally - and she seemed to have no interest in you personally.  Then, when you start pressing to meet in person, she suddenly checks out.

I have to say that sounds very specious.  I'd be very surprised if the person with whom you were speaking was being honest about themselves, their identity, their circumstances.

Some people do enjoy nonsexual service or nonsexual BDSM - both dominant and submissive.  But many, if not most, enjoy a sensual or sexual aspect, with it, either a little or a lot.  And certainly many dominants want to have a personal relationship, to get to know each other.

It is appropriate for you to hold out for the type of person and relationship that fulfills you.  No, you can't demand that a person have a sort of relationship they don't want to have, but you can move on, knowing that it's not only alright to look for the right fit, it's for the best.

A person who wants to talk a lot but doesn't want to meet in person, especially if you're talking about sex and BDSM, has some really big, bad reason for not getting together, in person.  Otherwise, even if they didn't want to be touched by you, they'd prefer the many advantages of seeing you in person.




DavanKael -> RE: Do you have a demarcation line between your personal and sexual life? (3/16/2009 12:38:11 PM)

The people I have met who separate their 'personal' and 'sexual' lives have substantial issues, typically with intimacy and commitment as well as a host of others. 
Sorry that you went through that but I would think that is the exception rather than the rule. 
Best wishes,
  Davan




beeble -> RE: Do you have a demarcation line between your personal and sexual life? (3/16/2009 4:20:51 PM)

quote:

LAgirlsub wrote: ... she left me a very brief good-bye message that she said she does not combine her personal life and her sex life.

*boggle*  Well, for me, my sex life is the most personal part of my life so, frankly, I've no idea what she's talking about.

quote:

My questions are: Is a Mistress/sub relationship without sensuality? She said I’m never to touch her without permission (and I’m very sensual).

There are no rules to D/s: everything is between you and your partner.  I'm allowed to touch my Mistress as I please unless she tells me not to.  If you think about it, that's actually the default situation between any two people, except that Kita's main reasons for denying permission are to tease me and exert control.  She is allowed to touch me as and when she pleases; I trust her not to do so inappropriately or if I'm upset or whatever.  If I want something, I ask for it; if she wants something, she does it.  And she's not a psychotic bitch so she doesn't abuse this position.  Ever.

quote:

Do you want to know your subs on a personal level? Is this how it is, that we’re talking just about sex and we are not to know each other on a personal/emotional level of any kind?

I couldn't submit to somebody with whom I didn't have a deep and personal connection.  I could play kinky games here and there without such a connection but that's not nearly the same thing.

quote:

Or is this just the preference of this Mistress?

It's just the preference of this woman.

quote:

Can you be intimate with your subs? How do you define intimacy?

Kita and I have a relationship that, for the most part, looks very "normal", except that we live thousands of miles apart, grrr, stoopid Atlantic Ocean, etc.  We are very much in love.  When we're on the same continent, we sleep in the same bed, we kiss, we cuddle, we hold hands, we snuggle on the couch and watch DVDs, we cook for each other.  Sometimes she buys me dinner, sometimes I buy her dinner, sometimes we split the bill.

Imagine an ordinary loving relationship, add an undercurrent of her owning me and some hot, kinky stuff, too.  I don't spend the whole time naked on my knees but she is my Mistress and Owner all the time and not just in the bedroom.  It's a fundamental and deep part of our relationship.

quote:

I’m not sure if I’m just looking for a femme, dominant woman or a Mistress. Is there an easier way to find out?

There's no easy way.  Try to get to know different sorts of people and see which seem to be closest to what you're looking for.

beeble.

[Edited to fix borken quoting]




PeonForHer -> RE: Do you have a demarcation line between your personal and sexual life? (3/16/2009 4:30:31 PM)

Beeble,

Well said. 

That would be a  perfect 'recipe' for me, too (though I'm with you on hating that blasted Atlantic).




LAgirlsub -> RE: Do you have a demarcation line between your personal and sexual life? (3/17/2009 2:55:27 AM)

Everyone…thank you. I don’t want to, which is probably why I just found this site a few days ago, but I have felt a little beat up emotionally from this situation. And until I read your comments, I was thinking that maybe this wasn’t for me, because it doesn’t come naturally to me to basically be one step removed from anonymous sex. I truly was hoping what all of you have said would be true, but I wasn’t sure if it was just this woman or how these relationships are.

I’m not a kid but I honestly have almost zero experience with bdsm…maybe a little context is needed…I was in a long-term relationship and when it ended, I moved to LA.
I needed a few years to start dating and I had a couple of brief encounters with a young woman that surprised me. She is a petite, femme who didn’t know that she was dominant until she met me. I had no idea I was truly submissive until she literally seduced me. Still blows my mind.

From that experience, I wondered if this is what I’m attracted to. All I honestly know is how wildly attracted I am to a dominant, feminine woman. So I met this woman online, she made me believe we would meet, that I was to wait until she decides she wants to take me and I worked hard at opening myself up to the many things she asked of me.

I know this isn’t unusual (as I started reading about bdsm), but do force your subs to wear clothes you want them to? I’m a casual femme and she was adamant that I wear a dress to see her. I guess what I’m asking…when is it about erotic play and when is it just controlling?

Peon, I was hoping what you said would be true, that like any relationship we can have intimacy. I guess given this different kind of relationship, I opened myself up more then I normally would without meeting someone.

LaTigress, thanks…I really didn’t know if this is the ‘game.’ I didn’t know if I could be sexual with her and not touch her. She told me she’d punish me if I did. I thought it was part of her being dominating. Just like her wanting me in a dress, which really bothered me. I told her how the young dominant woman said I’m girly – and no one has ever called me that. She agreed and said she was going to make me more girly. I’m very much a woman in body and spirit, but you won’t find me in a dress casually.

ShaktiSama, that seems to be how this woman is. Maybe it is something about opposites attracting. I did want her to be more open emotionally, but I know I’m not ready for an exclusive relationship. Ironically, she told me that I was to be hers and no one elses. She was adamant about this. Possessive yet distant. Although I wish she would just meet me once in person so she becomes a real person to me, I started to think exactly what you wrote – that she isn’t interested in knowing me, the person, at all. My gut instinct was this is about her fears of intimacy and had little to do with me. I almost wondered if she was attracted to me because I’m her opposite. I’m glad you are an example of a sensual Mistress. Maybe that’s part of what I’m looking for.

MadameMarque, I do think she is this woman, but she is very controlling. She made me believe we were going to meet a couple of times, but I had to wait for her direction. She’s in Long Beach so it’s 50 miles from LA and she travels a lot so I though I just had to be patient. But I guess it was just all a game. Maybe you’re right – maybe I’m missing something obvious here…I know precious little about her. She feels almost paranoid about privacy.

It’s the very personal, sexual things I shared with her that I know I was making myself vulnerable, but I wanted to open myself up to learning about these relationships.

Davan, I hope you’re right. Stepping back from this, I agree. She has intimacy issues and likely a host of others. I’m really so darn innocuous that most people find it easy to be open with me.

Thanks Beeble. Sounds like you have a good relationship, no matter what we call it. I really feel like this woman I’ve been talking about doesn’t understand that ‘raw sex’ (as she told she wanted) is nothing like what you described with Kita. Did that take you a long time to create the relationship you wanted with her?

Again, thanks everyone. Maybe because my birthday is Sunday I felt a little down from this nonsense. It reminded me what I did for her birthday in Jan. I know little about her except that she likes ‘pictures.’ I’ve rarely taken naked pictures of myself, but I did it for her. I put together this photo collection for her bday, in my silly, fun way and she hated it. It took a lot of time and thought (since I do have my female curves I used the beautiful Betty Paige as my inspiration), but it wasn’t what she wanted. She wanted explicit photos and mine were tame.

Oh can I ask everyone something else that I really wonder about and that frankly disturbed me…she told that when she had me, she’d be taking pictures of me. She said she wouldn’t have my face in them and that to her, they were like trophies – to see what people will do for her. Please tell me, is this unusual?




PeonForHer -> RE: Do you have a demarcation line between your personal and sexual life? (3/17/2009 4:19:24 AM)

LAgirl, the matter of those Betty Paige photos is ringing alarm bells.  Did you ever speak to her on the phone?




LaTigresse -> RE: Do you have a demarcation line between your personal and sexual life? (3/17/2009 7:25:38 AM)

Peon, that is exactly what was jumping out at me also.

I am seeing male, internet game player, alllllllllllll over this.




LadyPact -> RE: Do you have a demarcation line between your personal and sexual life? (3/17/2009 8:01:45 AM)

I was thinking it.  You both said it.




MaamJay -> RE: Do you have a demarcation line between your personal and sexual life? (3/17/2009 5:00:20 PM)

Firstly LAgirlsub ... I have to agree with the others, this is sounding more and more like a male masquerading as a female who was pissed off as your pics were much tamer than he was after. Sorry you've been duped but you're not the only one.

Secondly, as others have said, not all female Dommes are that way. Most of Us enjoy intimacy and seek it with Our subs, be they male or female. We might each have Our particular likes, dislikes, rules and protocols, but We engage in bdsm and D/s as a means to deeper knowing, deeper trust which is usually mutual.

Thirdly, re the dress ... not all Dommes will feel that way, some might. While I am tending to look more for a male sub due to some of the anticipated duties (being a roadie and helping with heavy PA gear), I certainly wouldn't count out the possibility of a female sub and trialled one last year. I did insist she wear a skirt, for a number of reasons.
1) It's Master's house rule for female subs in the household, as His sub (even though I am also Domme), I wear a skirt. Therefore it seemed inappropriate that she do otherwise. However, I gave her some to wear and they were mid-calf to ankle length ... longer than her shorts, so it wasn't as if she was showing more of herself than she was used to.
2) It's a relatively simple rule to police and to keep, so it's a good starter rule for a new sub.
3) Being willing to keep to the rule is an indication of the sub's mindset and willingness to do something they may not exactly like but which doesn't harm them. If you only submit to things you like and want to do ... is it submission?
4) For this particular fem sub, things in her past had robbed her of her femininity and she was looking to find it again. This was a first step on that road.
5) Should the occasion demand something other than a skirt as being more practical, permission to wear trousers could be sought and would likely be granted.
6) Should I have a male sub, I wouldn't demand that he wear a skirt ... however, I would want to control what he did wear around the house and out.
7) Any rule re clothing could be suspended in the future ... it's the willingness and mindset that it demonstrates that is important to Me.

I would suggest in future you push for an earlier meeting to verify each other before you become too invested in the other person. Meanwhile, hang in there, don't beat yourself up too badly about it, just learn from it.

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

Edited to add: While I love to take pics of My sub as a record of the fun things We did together, these are negotiated re whether the face is included or not, and how these pics can be used in the future. No way is My mind-set that these are "trophies" ... that sounds rather masculine to Me. (sorry to all the nice guys who don't think that way).




BKSir -> RE: Do you have a demarcation line between your personal and sexual life? (3/17/2009 5:12:21 PM)

Okay, sorry, not a mistress, but, I feel this is an important issue and, like most things, I have an opinion on it (go figure). ;)

I can't have a physical relationship with someone I don't have deep emotional feelings with. I've tried in the past, and it just doesn't happen, literally.  I've never even been able to be uh... 'up to it', as it were.  Just how I'm wired I guess.  Thankfully, I'm surrounded by three wonderful people that I would give my life and my all for without hesitation.

There is no right answer to this, except for the answer that is right for you.  *HUG*




LAgirlsub -> RE: Do you have a demarcation line between your personal and sexual life? (3/17/2009 11:57:21 PM)

Peon, no I never did speak to her on the phone yet the Betty Paige inspiration was all my doing, not hers. I have a physique (although I would never remotely compare myself to the infamous Ms. Page) that is similar to hers. I'm curvy in the right places so I was thinking of how I wanted to photography myself for her. She never asked me to do this - in fact quiet the contrary - hated my bday gift to her because my pictures were not explicit enough (like Betty Page).

Of course it's possible I've been duped, but I don't think so. She sent me many photos of herself and I met her through another woman online. Now could both of them be frauds? Sure. But it doesn't make sense really. I think it's the controlling issue at play and that she's emotionally distant, including a bit manipulating. She was just so darn sexy, dominant and she said she wanted me after I told her a lot about my desires.




LAgirlsub -> RE: Do you have a demarcation line between your personal and sexual life? (3/18/2009 12:08:46 AM)

MaamJay, what really bothered me with the dress is that it didn't feel like me, that I'm not being myself which is what I told her. It might seem extreme, but my gut feelings were and still are, that I'm not a phony and I won't pretend to be something or someone I'm not. However, I really gave this some thought and decided I could do something for her, just for her. So I shopped, bought a dress and of course that's when she decided she was done with me. I sent her pictures of myself in the dress (maybe I should post a few so someone can give me some feedback if it was a good enough choice...) and she never commented since she's done with me.

I'm really glad I found this site. I probably would have closed the door to this whole experience if I didn't have the chance to talk to others who are experienced in this. Thanks.




LAgirlsub -> RE: Do you have a demarcation line between your personal and sexual life? (3/18/2009 12:23:47 AM)

BKSir, when I ask about astrology it always sounds so silly, but what is your sun sign? And if you know, your rising sign? I wish I could learn and explore without my deeper emotions involved...I wish I'd do a better job of protecting myself.

Oh if it's OK, I was curious, am I talking to a dom male? So I clicked on your picture. You didn't feel like frankly some of the straight dom males that already have emailed (what part of gay/lesbian don't they understand?) and of course you're a gay male. I knew you didn't seem like these guys that are emailing me. Why don't they have better manners even on this site? (the straight male doms). If there's a straight male reading this, why do you think I'd ever be interested?

BKSir, do you think if I find a munch, I'll have to worry about straight dom men bothering me? I love my male friends but I really don't like aggressive straight men that just because I look like the girl next door even after I state I'm a lesbian they think it's OK to come on to me. If they don't know my orientation, I understand but I clearly posted it.

Thanks for the hug.




BKSir -> RE: Do you have a demarcation line between your personal and sexual life? (3/18/2009 12:55:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LAgirlsub

BKSir, when I ask about astrology it always sounds so silly, but what is your sun sign? And if you know, your rising sign? I wish I could learn and explore without my deeper emotions involved...I wish I'd do a better job of protecting myself.

Oh if it's OK, I was curious, am I talking to a dom male? So I clicked on your picture. You didn't feel like frankly some of the straight dom males that already have emailed (what part of gay/lesbian don't they understand?) and of course you're a gay male. I knew you didn't seem like these guys that are emailing me. Why don't they have better manners even on this site? (the straight male doms). If there's a straight male reading this, why do you think I'd ever be interested?

BKSir, do you think if I find a munch, I'll have to worry about straight dom men bothering me? I love my male friends but I really don't like aggressive straight men that just because I look like the girl next door even after I state I'm a lesbian they think it's OK to come on to me. If they don't know my orientation, I understand but I clearly posted it.

Thanks for the hug.


Oh, there are a ton of them out there hon, unfortunately it's the few that don't seem to get it that give the overwhelming majority a bad name.

My sun sign, Taurus, rising is Libra.

Yep, I'm a dom male, unless it comes to my little 4 legged fur brats, in which case I'm totally their sub. ;)

Now, as far as munches and the like, I really couldn't say for sure.  I don't know the people that would be there.  In general though, I would think that most people would be able to figure out "Oh, lesbian, I'm a guy, that means she's probably not interested in me.".  Unless they're terribly thick headed or are insanely full of themselves.  Most people really aren't that bad though.




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