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liltess -> called a gamer (1/24/2006 9:35:33 AM)

why when as submissive stands up for herself even with a potential Master, why is the submissive told "ohhh you just playing games" why can't the Dom/Domme see that this was an issue for the sub and is discussing it like she should?

See my potential Sir/Master and I have been talking for quiet some time and then tasks were handed out, I was emailing in of my ever move over weekends and such well this past weekend I emailed him and no response, I email later that day no response, I called and the phone just rang never picking up or going to answering machine. When I finaly did get hold of him he told me he turned off his phone because he went out the night prior and had a mother of a hangover, that is fine totally understandable, but a simple email to me saying 'hey babydoll turning off my phone for a couple of hours will call later this evening' would have surficed everything, but no nothing was sent or given, that really bothered me. He would have been livid if I did that to him with no word, its just common curtisy.

When I explained why it bothered me so much he was getting irritated, I felt no resolution as if it was understood and taken care of so we kept talking well the conversation went off into another direction of why I seem tense, again I explained why then He got extremely quiet I made a statement 'ok well I will let you go you seem preoccupied" he told me he was thinking of what I said so I again said 'ok well then I leave you be in silence', he said we will talk later I still felt upset so said 'possibly' he instantly blew up and hung the phone up on me, not allowing me to explain- now see here is the problem previously he was telling me I was lacking on showing some respect in how I addressed him on the phone and emails and I agreed and apologized - then he goes and hungs up on me instantly - where is the respect in that. I might be a submissive - new to the r/t side - but I am certianly not a doormat and refuse to be made to feel that way - am I wrong in this way of thinking???????? how am I playing games here????

liltess



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: called a gamer (1/24/2006 9:45:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: liltess

why when as submissive stands up for herself even with a potential Master, why is the submissive told "ohhh you just playing games" why can't the Dom/Domme see that this was an issue for the sub and is discussing it like she should?

Because that would be having to deal with an emotional issue they might not understand.

It would mean having to deal with perhaps not always knowing the best way.

It might set a precedent that you would go to them expecting them to help you with even more difficult issues.

It's far more simpler to guilt and shame you into silence and put away your own feelings and ideas and just give them what they want.

quote:

am I wrong in this way of thinking????????

liltess

He's playing classic games with you. I'd suggest you forget it and update your profile.



MrDiscipline44 -> RE: called a gamer (1/24/2006 10:00:34 AM)

quote:

where is the respect in that. I might be a submissive - new to the r/t side - but I am certianly not a doormat and refuse to be made to feel that way - am I wrong in this way of thinking????????

In a word, yes, you are wrong. Look tess, you agreed that you showed lack of respect on the phone to him earlier in the conversation. By saying "possibly" at the end of the conversation you are still showing no respect. Why should he respect you if you can't respect him?

You are the submissive, by emailing over and over and then calling on the phone, all within the same day, you are trying to take the dominant role. You were not in charge so if it upset you that he didn't answer your emails or the phone too bad. Get over it. Being overly agressive is not submission.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: called a gamer (1/24/2006 10:04:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44
You are the submissive, by emailing over and over and then calling on the phone, all within the same day, you are trying to take the dominant role. You were not in charge so if it upset you that he didn't answer your emails or the phone too bad. Get over it. Being overly agressive is not submission.

Actually some doms like overly aggressive submissive.

I agree she's no shining saint in this situation. But it's got all the classic hallmarks of a "dom" who has no clue and is using all the manipulative tricks in the book rather than dealing competently with the situation.



liltess -> RE: called a gamer (1/24/2006 10:08:01 AM)

I do not profess I am utterly innocent, no I had a part in this and have admitted freely that yes I was - but I thought if a submissive had a problem she is to talk to over with her Master and come to a resolution not brush it under the carpet and hope it fixes itself just cuz he says "all is ok now" or get angrier .... how is anything to get resolved...



liltess -> RE: called a gamer (1/24/2006 10:10:14 AM)

or when trying to truely understand his way of thinking on it by questioning things am I told 'stop playing games'...should I just shut up and go blindly not knowing the full understandment and hopes it does nto arise again?



phoenixslave -> RE: called a gamer (1/24/2006 10:37:03 AM)

i don't think two emails over the course of a day and one call is hounding or being dominant. the "possibly" was a bit pushy. But i have to agree that he is avoiding the issue by putting it on you. red flag.



mistoferin -> RE: called a gamer (1/24/2006 10:42:00 AM)

I think this could have been easily settled with better communication skills.

quote:

See my potential Sir/Master


This tells me that there is no commitment at this point in time. So while it would have been nice had he jotted you off a quick explanatory email....it is not something that he may feel is a requirement at this level of the relationship.

quote:

I was emailing in of my ever move over weekends and such well this past weekend I emailed him and no response, I email later that day no response, I called and the phone just rang never picking up or going to answering machine.


This is rather agressive. I am not sure why you would feel that he has to jump right on every email or phone call...but to continue to persue him despite his obvious avoidance kind of smacks of some insecurity on your end. Because of the hangover....or whatever reason he may just want some personal space...I can see why he would be a bit upset by the frequency of intrusion.

quote:

'ok well I will let you go you seem preoccupied"


quote:

'ok well then I leave you be in silence'


quote:

'possibly'


All of these things suggest "attitude". Now I am NOT saying you are wrong for being upset, only you can determine what is upsetting to you....just suggesting a different communication tactic.

"When you do _____ it makes me feel _____."

At the point of silence instead of saying you would let him go because he was obviously preoccupied....what might have worked better is something along the lines of "Obviously I have said something that upset you...can we discuss it or would you like some time to think it over?"

Instead of answering "possibly" in regard to the conversation later....a better approach might have been "Well I will look forward to it as I know that this will bother me until we can discuss and resolve it".

Anyway...I am not judging you, just merely giving you my perspective and some suggestions for tactics that I have had some success with in my own life.




Sensualips -> RE: called a gamer (1/24/2006 10:58:45 AM)

Vanilla relationship or s/D relationship - we teach people how to treat us. Communication is important, but our actions also let them know what is acceptable and what is not.

Sometimes accusations are a way to distract a person from the core issues.




liltess -> RE: called a gamer (1/24/2006 11:02:57 AM)

meaning what Sensuallips??



MrDiscipline44 -> RE: called a gamer (1/24/2006 11:04:48 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
Actually some doms like overly aggressive submissive.


You're right, some do and some don't. By what she says his reaction was, which do you think he is?

quote:

I agree she's no shining saint in this situation. But it's got all the classic hallmarks of a "dom" who has no clue and is using all the manipulative tricks in the book rather than dealing competently with the situation.


And just how do you gather this? This whole post is one sided, lucky, and you know it. She is only posting her preception of things and not things as they actually happened. She never posts what he actually says in reply to her, just that she didn't "feel" that things were resolved. Maybe he felt they were by what he said.





LuckyAlbatross -> RE: called a gamer (1/24/2006 11:07:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44
And just how do you gather this? This whole post is one sided, lucky, and you know it. She is only posting her preception of things and not things as they actually happened. She never posts what he actually says in reply to her, just that she didn't "feel" that things were resolved. Maybe he felt they were by what he said.

There's really no way to say this without sounding like an arrogant little upstart.

Let's just say after 7 years in wiitwd, active both online and off, I've heard this story played out hundreds, if not thousands, of times, in this exact same pattern.

Could I be wrong? Sure. But her post doesn't come across as someone who wants justification and a hammer to attack the dom with. It comes across as someone who is new, confused and being played.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: called a gamer (1/24/2006 11:10:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: liltess
meaning what Sensuallips??

If I may Sensual? Feel free to beat me later if I'm wrong.

It means that distracting you with accusations of wrongdoing puts YOU in the hot seat and lets the other person's wrongdoings fall off the radar.

It's similar to having a snip with someone over using the last of the coffee and then suddenly saying "Well you left the paper out in the rain last week and never take responsibility"

Nothing to do with the issue, but suddenly the other person is now the one in the wrong spot.




liltess -> RE: called a gamer (1/24/2006 11:18:12 AM)

oh I see thank you lucky

Sir MrDiscipline44 Lucky is very much correct I am not here to bash him or make him look bad in any situation I don't have anyone to talk to other than him and when we are not talking it is hard to work through the confusion - see I have been a sorta top for 12 yrs in my vanilla marriage and absolutely hated it so letting go of what I have been doing for 12 yrs is hard and confusing at time, he has been patient but this is recent and new and yes throws all kinds of red flags up..I just want to make sure I am understanding things and making or going the right path...



Sensualips -> RE: called a gamer (1/24/2006 11:25:55 AM)

quote:

Feel free to beat me later if I'm wrong.


Damn, I so wish you were wrong. :)

The core issue here is communication and expecations. The symptom of that is you being upset because he was not courteous regarding not calling -- and that you feel it was not resolved. He reacted by attacking you and hanging up on you.

So you are posting "am I wrong to feel this way" and "how am I playing games." Now it is about you, and what you are doing wrong -- or if you are right, then he must be wrong.

The core issue is no longer in sight.






LuckyAlbatross -> RE: called a gamer (1/24/2006 11:27:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: liltess
I just want to make sure I am understanding things and making or going the right path...

You're not going the right path by cheating or trying to find fulfillment elsewhere in some fantasy submission as a patch to your marriage. Specially as it will make it more likely for you to make the classic novice mistakes and make the foundation for stability fairly impossible to maintain.

End it with this guy, work out what's really going to make you happy in the long term and get things settled within yourself.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: called a gamer (1/24/2006 11:28:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sensualips
Damn, I so wish you were wrong. :)

OK fine you can still beat me.



liltess -> RE: called a gamer (1/24/2006 11:29:47 AM)

ops my bad I should have added I am seperated reeeeeally soon to divorce so not cheating...*G*



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: called a gamer (1/24/2006 11:40:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: liltess
ops my bad I should have added I am seperated reeeeeally soon to divorce so not cheating...*G*

You realize you aren't helping your credibility with this whole story thing?

Be single for awhile. Find yourself again. Explore, but don't commit. The fact that you have to ask online people to give assistance on judging a situation like this shows you need to just wait awhile until you trust your judgement more.



liltess -> RE: called a gamer (1/24/2006 11:44:12 AM)

ok - Thank you Everyone for your posts and advise



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