quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Sorry, short answer before. The point I meant to make is that there is no way to get to the emotionally vulnerable and open point without going through this. Presumably he has been through this before with your sistersub and knows what to expect. But in opening ourselves, in revealing our innermost thoughts and desires, we also must open that hurt child inside. Unfortunately you can't just open the sex slut and not open every door. We either take down the walls all the way or we stay safe and alone behind them.
 
this makes perfect sense and why i love you guys.  its not until someone says something like this that you hit an 'aha!' moment.  its so true.  i am not someone who wishes to stay safe behind my walls - breaking down those walls lets stuff out, stuff that has probably clouded every adult relationship ive ever had.  now with everything being laid bare i realise that youre totally spot on here.  it all has to come out, even the crappy stuff, especially the crappy stuff.


Times like this are when a touch of D/lg in a dynamic comes in way useful. I don't know about your Sir but mine finds dealing with my stresses to be a welcome break from his own. Especially since a little cuddling and hugging helps both of us feel better, not just s types need skin hunger fed. Anyway, are you sure you were that much more stressful on him or is that your own perfectionism speaking? Helps if you ask him instead of assuming. Just because calming you wasn't on his plan for the evening doesn't mean he didn't feel good for having done so successfully. But we all go through this, so relax and accept the journey.

i was an unmittigated rat bag.

quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslave

hi,

the process of submission and enslavement to a Master has amazed me.  some of it has been wonderful, most of it actually, but aspects of my personality are not so wonderful and as i open myself up, give everything up and expose everything to Sir i find myself at odds with this silly, insecure child inside of me i had no idea was there.

he chose the woman i am, he has no desire to own a petulant child and i have to get to grips with this sudden emergence of temper and hooliganism that seems to be lurking under my surface.  im not proud of it.

i know that my childish insecurities loom up from my childhood, ive worked that much out.  disbelief that anyone like Sir would want me or care about me enough to put the work in.  he says that i am questioning his judgement each time but it doesnt feel like that.  it feels like im not good enough, and each time i behave poorly i emphasise this feeling in me.  nothing he has done, he has remained constant and consistant.

its not fair on my poly sis either.

i have to get a grip or im going to destroy one of the best things to have happened to me in a long long while. 

has anyone any suggestions, other than grow the fuck up, ive already told myself that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: chamberqueen

My Master taught me a very good lesson when I was once in a self deprecating mood.  He simply said, "stop".  He told me never to knock the gifts that God gave me, that he was very choosy and would not have picked me for a slave unless he saw desirable things in me.

After that when I would catch myself in a mood and feeling like I couldn't possibly be good enough that single word would come back to mind - STOP.  Most Masters vastly prefer a sub or slave with a good self esteem that truly make the choice to submit rather than someone who submits, in part, simply because they don't feel good about themselves.  I had to rewrite old broken records in myself and stop thinking of myself as someone not worth while.  I had a lot of negative influences throughout my life and there were good reasons for my patterns, but that didn't make them right.

i recognise something in this statement and im trying to bend my brain around it - it applies to me i think, a little - i wish for him to be proud of me but i cant imagine why he would be.  i have a selfish need to be wanted but dont actually believe that anyone would.  my submissive nature is tied up in youre statement there and thanks, i need to really think that through.

Telling someone that you are somehow not good enough is often a way of looking for validation whether you realize it at the time or not.  Think how much prouder he would be if you could report to him at the end of the day that you stopped yourself from thinking negatively because you knew it would be pleasing to him rather than approaching him after a hard day of work and telling him that you are sure that you couldn't have done well enough.  Use the "stop" theory for a few days and see if it doesn't help.  I know that it was a huge help to me and aided me in healing a lot of old emotional wounds.  I use it as much in my vanilla life as anywhere else and people have seen a big difference in me.  I'm sure it would help you, too.

[:)] ive been doing this today.  swallowing my insecurities and being positive - doing positive things, making positive actions that he would appreciate.  it felt better knowing that he'll come home today and find things to smile about with regard to me anyway.  after last night i had to, but it isnt just about when i do something crappy - its actually pushing myself out there and doing those things, believing that he will want them and enjoy them.  that takes alot of courage ive discovered.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Lally,

You BOTH have issues to work on. You are in a relationship for the first time where you feel safe enough for these issues to bubble up to the surface. You are going to have to work through them, no shortcut on that. However, you CAN learn to realize that they are not current issues and they are from your past. That CAN help you lessen their emotional impact.

Now, HE needs to stop being so reactive with you. He is seeing you struggle with this stuff as a rejection of his advice and opinions which is hard but he needs to realize it isn't about him. You aren't pushing/rejecting him you are doing that to childhood issues. He needs to not let it get to him and find a way to allow you to feel the emotional wave and let it wash over him and only then expect you to work on the issue after you get some perspective on what you just felt.

quote:

ORIGINAL: feydeplume

That feeling of being a burden, or just adding stress or work or ick into your M's life ebbs and flows. Sometimes the trigger is external, sometimes it is internal. The STOP, to get the hamsters of doom from running unending circles around in your brain, does work, especially if you start substituting other words for the negative ones that you were telling yourself. Can your sis be there for you and can you ask HER for a hug, a touch, some concrete proof that you are valued and real when M isn't there?
 
hamsters of doom - !!!! - i love that so much! - and i will try this STOP, it sounds like a great idea.  it is about stopping that unending circle of thoughts that just pick up other thoughts like a tornado in a velcro factory.

We all have tantrums from time to time, usually when things in our heads (That we should have taken to our M's as they happened, but we said "i'll wait til later cuz" and lied by omission) have built up and burst. It's not just the issues themselves, it is also the way we handled the build up of those emotions that makes us freak and go all ultimatum extremist.
 
yes.  when you look at the process like that you can see how and why it all turns you into certifyable section material.  you kinda think youre the only basket case and now i realise im in excellent company [:)] it does help.

Past damage mixed with NOT giving it to your M (journal, bits of paper in a jar, text message, whatever) does create "idiot basket case" stuff. And because our lives have become very absolute (one authority, one judge/jury/executioner, one fixation point for sexuality etc), we absolutely go bonkers at times.

i hadnt thought of it like that either.

*hugs* you are loved and valued, both now and in the future. You dark, icky secrets are dear precieous things when they are exposed to the light in your M's eyes. You accept his judgement in all things, so accept it in this one too and stop being willful and prideful and withholding yourself. You are his treasure and you are worthy to serve and you do please.

i think its when you feel like the balance between giving everything and dumping shite is too overwhelming and almost selfish and self absorbed, so you end up holding stuff back with then goes bang further along.
 
thanks fey. xxxx

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

quote:

ORIGINAL: chamberqueen
My Master taught me a very good lesson when I was once in a self deprecating mood.  He simply said, "stop". 

After that when I would catch myself in a mood and feeling like I couldn't possibly be good enough that single word would come back to mind - STOP.  

My Master uses exactly the same word.  It works wonders!

The other thing I do is to remind myself that I am a slave and as such it is not my place to doubt my Master's judgements.  It is not my decision whether I am pretty enough or sexy enough or good enough.  That is up to my Master to decide.  If He says I am pretty then it would be a crime against our relationship to tell Him He is wrong!  So I surrender my insecurities just like I surrendered my apartment, my job, my furniture to be here. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

this slave is not allowed to "beat herself up"...internally or otherwise...He made that perfectly clear.
 
that's His job...and He'll do it when He sees fit.
 
recognizing that, mentally, stops the internal dialogue, for this slave.
 
over the last 6 years, there have been a few times(totalling a car, recovering from surgery) when He has had to remind this slave of that...and for that she is very grateful.
 
best of luck to you!

quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

Hi, lally----
I am sorry you are so uncomfortable right now.
It is difficult when you have really old scripts running through your head to cast them aside but sometimes, that is what needs to happen; allowing new scripts to fill those spaces lest the old ones slide back in to the places left blank.  It's more difficult than it sounds.  I do not know your Sir but if he is a good man, he should be there to help, to be a gide-post for you, to stand with you as you are working on those things internal. 
Of course, allowing him to be in charge is the obvious answer but reaching inside one's own skull isn't tht simple or straight-forward.  While I truly believe in the veracity of submission and that partners who are in the Dominant stance can be worthy of being in charge, so too do I belive that there are certain things we must set right within ourselves. 
Some have mentioned counseling.  That could be a good avenue for you. 
Also, journaling may help you to flesh out your thoughts and visualize the changes you wish to make via written words on a page. 
And, time.  Waiting is.  :> 
Davan

quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslut

quote:

disbelief that anyone like Sir would want me or care about me enough to put the work in. it feels like im not good enough,

I've said it before and i'll keep saying it until you can do it !! I truly wish you could see yourself through Sir's and mine's eyes because you'd feel a hell of a lot different. [:D]
 

quote:

its not fair on my poly sis either.

I can hack it [:)]
You hack my floops, i hack your fritzes, it's what it's all about!!
 

quote:

i have to get a grip or im going to destroy one of the best things to have happened to me in a long long while. 

I won't let ya !!
 

quote:

has anyone any suggestions, other than grow the fuck up, ive already told myself that

Yup same advice you gave me 'chilllllll', you're only human [:D]
 
 

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Lally,

You BOTH have issues to work on. You are in a relationship for the first time where you feel safe enough for these issues to bubble up to the surface. You are going to have to work through them, no shortcut on that. However, you CAN learn to realize that they are not current issues and they are from your past. That CAN help you lessen their emotional impact.

yes, thank you, i read this before i began responding to everyone and they are in my past, i recognise that now and therefore no longer relevant.  they do impact in a negative way that isnt to do with Sir, he is simply, inadvertantly, bringing them out of me - i realise that that the trick is to recognise that and not turn them on him but instead ask for help.  he has told me that i must not, can not react the way that i do, that i must talk to him before i do fritz - i think with everyones help here, that im equipped to do this.  understanding something gets me half way there.
 
 

Now, HE needs to stop being so reactive with you. He is seeing you struggle with this stuff as a rejection of his advice and opinions which is hard but he needs to realize it isn't about him. You aren't pushing/rejecting him you are doing that to childhood issues. He needs to not let it get to him and find a way to allow you to feel the emotional wave and let it wash over him and only then expect you to work on the issue after you get some perspective on what you just felt.

and yet that is what i thought i was doing.  i was projecting my insecurities at him.  thank you.  this really helps to clarify what ive been doing. xx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslave

hi,

the process of submission and enslavement to a Master has amazed me.  some of it has been wonderful, most of it actually, but aspects of my personality are not so wonderful and as i open myself up, give everything up and expose everything to Sir i find myself at odds with this silly, insecure child inside of me i had no idea was there.

he chose the woman i am, he has no desire to own a petulant child and i have to get to grips with this sudden emergence of temper and hooliganism that seems to be lurking under my surface.  im not proud of it.

i know that my childish insecurities loom up from my childhood, ive worked that much out.  disbelief that anyone like Sir would want me or care about me enough to put the work in.  he says that i am questioning his judgement each time but it doesnt feel like that.  it feels like im not good enough, and each time i behave poorly i emphasise this feeling in me.  nothing he has done, he has remained constant and consistant.

its not fair on my poly sis either.

i have to get a grip or im going to destroy one of the best things to have happened to me in a long long while. 

has anyone any suggestions, other than grow the fuck up, ive already told myself that.

The whole tradition of analysis goes deep into the psyche doesn't it? What I mean by that is the entire concept that somehow we have psychosexual stages... that we begin as children and 'grow up' somehow into a non neurotic adult...if we are lucky.
If not the tradition suggests that we are neurotically stuck at this stage or that and that we, as individuals are responsible for that as it is a function of our personality. A process of the id urges unresolved from childhood overwhelming the voice of reason, the voice of the super ego. A corollary of this is that we  seek to resolve the conflict by constantly acting out the neurosis: projecting the feelings onto neutral others, turning them into either our mother or father. Connecting to them via a complex: not really seeing them as who they are.
OK: so if I dollow that line of reasoning I am forved to ask you: what is it about your relationshp with your m that is so repressively reminiscent of your relationship with your father? What is it that is reminiscent of your relationship with your mother that gets enacted out in the unfairness of your relationship with your poly sister?
Choose to answer those questions and sure, it might suddenlt turn a key but perhaps then there are an endless and infinite psychological store of unresolbed issues from vhildhood that are waiting and ready to turn you into someone else that behaves, thinks and feels like an adolescent.
It doesn't have to be this model.
My bdsm is my holy grave. What I mean is that it is spiritual as well as emotional or behavioural. What sporitual means for me is that there is a framework which is greaer than the me-myself-I-ego-nound reality. It means that there is a sense of karma, of conscience, of balance, of wholeness in the world of which I can choose to be aware or I can turn my back on: it seems like a dualistic choice. No matter. It is a question of absolute faith my spirituality. It means that at those times when I LEAST believed how the situation is spiritual that is the very moment when what is best for me is at it's highest: the divine paradox.
The bond between Master and slave is spiritual. It is spiritual paradox because it is chosen slavery.
So: YOU CHOOSE TO BE THIS BRAT OF AN ADOLSCENT. Yes no apologies I was hsoutimg that. Once you get that you are choosong to kivk off... eben though you don't know WHY you choose... and further more there are endless analytical reasons for your choie anyway...once you get that you choose you stop being a victim right there right then. Because you are a victim of yourself and in choice you can immediately forgive yourself.
Or do it again and again. It would be interesting to see what factors 'made' you kick off.  BUT one thing is certain: if you choose Him as Master then He isn't going anywhere. He is your sporitual teacher and mirror in all of this. A Master. once he has offered the responsibility of owbership, offers unconditional owbership IMO. That does not exclude training but training and domination via training is far different from owbership.
And so it is with Mastery
Herein endeth the lesson... sorry if it sounded arrogant. Occupational hazard. It was meant with heart. Growing up oesn't come into it. You are a beautiful child.

quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslave

quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

Hi, lally----
I am sorry you are so uncomfortable right now.
It is difficult when you have really old scripts running through your head to cast them aside but sometimes, that is what needs to happen; allowing new scripts to fill those spaces lest the old ones slide back in to the places left blank.  It's more difficult than it sounds.  I do not know your Sir but if he is a good man, he should be there to help, to be a gide-post for you, to stand with you as you are working on those things internal. 
Of course, allowing him to be in charge is the obvious answer but reaching inside one's own skull isn't tht simple or straight-forward.  While I truly believe in the veracity of submission and that partners who are in the Dominant stance can be worthy of being in charge, so too do I belive that there are certain things we must set right within ourselves. 
Some have mentioned counseling.  That could be a good avenue for you. 
Also, journaling may help you to flesh out your thoughts and visualize the changes you wish to make via written words on a page. 
And, time.  Waiting is.  :> 
Davan

i think counselling is valid if youre depressed, stuck in a hole, seriously messed up, maybe thats because im english and we dont do therapy in quite the same way as you guys do over there.  i know where its coming from, dealing with it, ill admit is proving tricky, but you know,thanks to this thread ive got a much better handle on it all now.

part of it is knowing that youre not the only fruit loop in the loop - im guessing its all part of the human condition anyway.

we think the past is gone and over with and then something comes along and all these fresh insecurities appear.  maybe its just about recognising them and shoving them back in their box.  what good are they to me now anyway.  redundant stuff that shouldnt be relevant and only is because im letting it affect me.

xx thanks for youre thoughts, all of this is really helping.  i feel a little self concious as i answer each person, just i love what everyone has said, its not self indulgent but it must look that way, so apologies, but i really want to answer everyone cos everyone has said something different that has meant something else to me and hopefully to other people too. xx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

You know Michael: you and I would not, could not really ever agree in my opinion.

quote:

  A Master doesn't NEED to do anything in the M/s relationship in terms of changing himself either by consciously NOT reacting or by consciously trying to take a deeper interest.

quote:

  Also in bliss as far as relationship goes right now.

quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslave

hi,

the process of submission and enslavement to a Master has amazed me. 

But why has it amazed you?  Good amazement?  Write down the things that amaze you.  

some of it has been wonderful, most of it actually, but aspects of my personality are not so wonderful What do think are not wonderful? What do you think are wonderful?  What does your Sir think are wonderful?  You can't second guess your Sir...has he told you what he thinks aren't wonderful?  and as i open myself up, give everything up and expose everything to Sir i find myself at odds with this silly, insecure child inside of me i had no idea was there.

he chose the woman i am,  Who is the woman he chose?  Doesn't that include the insecurities she may feel at times? he has no desire to own a petulant child and i have to get to grips with this sudden emergence of temper and hooliganism that seems to be lurking under my surface.  im not proud of it.   You have things about you that you recognize that you don't like. And you want to get them under control.   Well done.  You see things you wan to improve on.  What a great first step.

i know that my childish insecurities loom up from my childhood, ive worked that much out.  disbelief that anyone like Sir would want me or care about me enough to put the work in.  he says that i am questioning his judgement each time but it doesnt feel like that.  It's easy to run at the first sign of things being our of kilter.  It's much harder  to work through it.   it feels like im not good enough, and each time i behave poorly i emphasise this feeling in me.  nothing he has done, he has remained constant and consistant.    He apparently  feels as though you are very much worth working through this with you.  Having his support is one of the greatest things (imo) to help you get through this.

its not fair on my poly sis either.   Seems to me she's in it for the long haul as well (in looking at her post). I think you have a great support system from her as well as your Sir.  Lean on them and let them be there for you.   It's obvious they want to be.

i have to get a grip or im going to destroy one of the best things to have happened to me in a long long while.   Look at it from your poly sister's and your Sir's point ...you are one of the best things to have happened to them. 

has anyone any suggestions, other than grow the fuck up,  (Much easier said than done)  ive already told myself that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslave

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslave

hi,

the process of submission and enslavement to a Master has amazed me.  some of it has been wonderful, most of it actually, but aspects of my personality are not so wonderful and as i open myself up, give everything up and expose everything to Sir i find myself at odds with this silly, insecure child inside of me i had no idea was there.

he chose the woman i am, he has no desire to own a petulant child and i have to get to grips with this sudden emergence of temper and hooliganism that seems to be lurking under my surface.  im not proud of it.

i know that my childish insecurities loom up from my childhood, ive worked that much out.  disbelief that anyone like Sir would want me or care about me enough to put the work in.  he says that i am questioning his judgement each time but it doesnt feel like that.  it feels like im not good enough, and each time i behave poorly i emphasise this feeling in me.  nothing he has done, he has remained constant and consistant.

its not fair on my poly sis either.

i have to get a grip or im going to destroy one of the best things to have happened to me in a long long while. 

has anyone any suggestions, other than grow the fuck up, ive already told myself that.

The whole tradition of analysis goes deep into the psyche doesn't it? What I mean by that is the entire concept that somehow we have psychosexual stages... that we begin as children and 'grow up' somehow into a non neurotic adult...if we are lucky.
 
i think impossible. i have a g/f who had an idyllic childhood and she has issues.

If not the tradition suggests that we are neurotically stuck at this stage or that and that we, as individuals are responsible for that as it is a function of our personality. A process of the id urges unresolved from childhood overwhelming the voice of reason, the voice of the super ego. A corollary of this is that we  seek to resolve the conflict by constantly acting out the neurosis: projecting the feelings onto neutral others, turning them into either our mother or father. Connecting to them via a complex: not really seeing them as who they are.
OK: so if I dollow that line of reasoning I am forved to ask you: what is it about your relationshp with your m that is so repressively reminiscent of your relationship with your father?

nothing.  Sir is everything my father wasnt.  he is caring and there.  my father was aloof and distant and left when i was 12.  and my mother resented me.  i think that Sir has filled the emotional void they created, thats all - as my authority figure he represents the person i turn to now that i didnt have as a kid.  the whole rejection thing, being a dissappointment to my parents simply for being me, a bit chubby a bit freaky looking, a bit wild and willful, a bit crap at school - thats where its coming from.  turning to him for help doesnt come naturally therefore, wondering why he wants me therefore, etc., hm interesting. thanks.

What is it that is reminiscent of your relationship with your mother that gets enacted out in the unfairness of your relationship with your poly sister?

the only unfairness i think is that my actions have an impact on her indirectly and have done directly and that isnt fair on her.  she has been deeply hurt and upset by things i have done, that i didnt mean to, but were part of this whole thing and she got caught up in it.  something i will work hard to avoid ever happening again to her.


Choose to answer those questions and sure, it might suddenlt turn a key but perhaps then there are an endless and infinite psychological store of unresolbed issues from vhildhood that are waiting and ready to turn you into someone else that behaves, thinks and feels like an adolescent.
It doesn't have to be this model.
My bdsm is my holy grave. What I mean is that it is spiritual as well as emotional or behavioural. What sporitual means for me is that there is a framework which is greaer than the me-myself-I-ego-nound reality. It means that there is a sense of karma, of conscience, of balance, of wholeness in the world of which I can choose to be aware or I can turn my back on: it seems like a dualistic choice. No matter. It is a question of absolute faith my spirituality. It means that at those times when I LEAST believed how the situation is spiritual that is the very moment when what is best for me is at it's highest: the divine paradox.
The bond between Master and slave is spiritual. It is spiritual paradox because it is chosen slavery.

interesting - i read something along those lines a week or two ago.  someone put up a link on another board about the spirituality of Ms and Ds.  not that a master or dom is a god of course not, but that the degree of faith and belief is akin to some level of spiritual belief.  i need to go and find that, would make a good discussion.

So: YOU CHOOSE TO BE THIS BRAT OF AN ADOLSCENT.

shudder, shrinks, i know, not one of my finer moments.
 
Yes no apologies I was hsoutimg that.

shout away.
 
Once you get that you are choosong to kivk off... eben though you don't know WHY you choose... and further more there are endless analytical reasons for your choie anyway...once you get that you choose you stop being a victim right there right then. Because you are a victim of yourself and in choice you can immediately forgive yourself.
Or do it again and again. It would be interesting to see what factors 'made' you kick off. 

actually, thats interesting now you ask.  one of the things that used to send me literally runing for the woods as a kid was how my mum used to twist my words and not believe me when i said something like i loved her.
 
not wanting to go into details, but Sir twisted (not atall unkindly) but he did twist my words back at me, to make me look at how they felt being used on me.  thats when i blew.

BUT one thing is certain: if you choose Him as Master then He isn't going anywhere.

thats the bit that has my knickers in a twist. putting all of my trust and faith into him and believing that he isnt going to decide that im not worth the effort and piss off.  the 12 year old child in me is checking that out i guess.
 
He is your sporitual teacher and mirror in all of this. A Master. once he has offered the responsibility of owbership, offers unconditional owbership IMO. That does not exclude training but training and domination via training is far different from owbership.
And so it is with Mastery
Herein endeth the lesson... sorry if it sounded arrogant. Occupational hazard. It was meant with heart. Growing up oesn't come into it. You are a beautiful child.

so..., how much do i owe you for that session [:D] - maybe counselling would help. xxx

thanks prin, ill have to come back to this tomorrow, ill think about the questions youve asked.  have to be in bed by 11 [&o] and its 10.58.. blows raspberry))))

quote:

ORIGINAL: feydeplume

That feeling of being a burden, or just adding stress or work or ick into your M's life ebbs and flows. Sometimes the trigger is external, sometimes it is internal. The STOP, to get the hamsters of doom from running unending circles around in your brain, does work, especially if you start substituting other words for the negative ones that you were telling yourself. Can your sis be there for you and can you ask HER for a hug, a touch, some concrete proof that you are valued and real when M isn't there?

We all have tantrums from time to time, usually when things in our heads (That we should have taken to our M's as they happened, but we said "i'll wait til later cuz" and lied by omission) have built up and burst. It's not just the issues themselves, it is also the way we handled the build up of those emotions that makes us freak and go all ultimatum extremist.

Past damage mixed with NOT giving it to your M (journal, bits of paper in a jar, text message, whatever) does create "idiot basket case" stuff. And because our lives have become very absolute (one authority, one judge/jury/executioner, one fixation point for sexuality etc), we absolutely go bonkers at times.

*hugs* you are loved and valued, both now and in the future. You dark, icky secrets are dear precieous things when they are exposed to the light in your M's eyes. You accept his judgement in all things, so accept it in this one too and stop being willful and prideful and withholding yourself. You are his treasure and you are worthy to serve and you do please.