ElanSubdued
Posts: 1511
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quote:
hopelessfool to Kita:
Say I hate and am terrified of paddles. One is used on me i tend to either go catatonic or am enraged and start hitting back. So you being my Domly dom decide we are going to work on paddles. First things out of my mouth are going to be dont hit me on the breasts I CANT TAKE it..... or more so please hit me only here get me used to it. You think you know better about my mental state what i can and can not handled better then my ownself in such situations? Sometimes us subly ones arent topping from the bottom we are simply pointing out what your about to do with us in particular is not so smart to do if you wish to keep said submissive.
Kita to hopelessfool:
Well here is where things like boundaries and safewords and even just basic communication come into play. There's a difference between, let's say, "yellowing" ("I don't think I can handle you paddling my breasts right now" or something akin to that) and giving permission to the Top/Dominant to do something only in the way/where/how you want it. (snip) I don't really "play" with people I don't *know* then it's unlikely I would personally be exploring beyond somebody's boundaries so far that it would result in losing them and I certainly wouldn't do something to cause them mental, emotional or true physical harm. (snip) Somebody being all about their kink does not a submissive make. Kinksters can be submissives, sure, but it's not a given. Boundaries and communication and respect for exploring touchy areas are different subjects altogether.
This thread is covering a number of related, but differing topics.
There are those who have been labeled or who have used the term TFTB (topping from the bottom) in non-consensual, manipulative, abusive ways. I don't consider this anything to do with BDSM. Vanilla people and kinky people alike may act inappropriately. It's a shame this behaviour is associated and blurred with BDSM. Just as a dominant, submissive, top, bottom, or switch may try to manipulate in inappropriate ways, so may a banker, doctor, teacher, friend, lover, etc. As I said above, the behaviour (itself), in my opinion, has nothing to do with BDSM or dominance and submission. I'm not excusing the behavior, but I think the behaviour should be judged on its own and not emblazoned with "a dominant did this to me so all dominants must be abusive". Abusers are abusers and yes, some of them happen to be kinksters too.
As an adjunct to my thoughts above, I think it's important to remember that sometimes people simply make mistakes. Online, it's easy to get carried away in roleplay and to misjudge what is appropriate and what isn't. The disconnect that comes as a result of communicating remotely (and not face-to-face) also causes some atrocious behaviour. For example, people will say absolutely awful things to others in an email that they would never say face-to-face... because face-to-face they are dealing with another human being, but in an email they're just typing into a computer. It's my strong hunch (and hope) that many of the people online who appear to be nasty, rude, and manipulative are, in fact, probably quite nice people in real life. They've become intoxicated in the Internet playground are behaving badly as a consequence. Obviously, there are predators and very dangerous people on he Internet, but this isn't the category of which I'm speaking presently.
Now I'll address hopelessfool and Kita's conversation which, I believe, involves TFTB in the context of consensual dominant and submissive partners. I agree that there is a difference between communicating what you like and how you're feeling (i.e. giving your dominant the information they need to make informed decisions and to keep you safe) versus, in essence, telling your dominant what to do. Much of this can be shared during negotiation before play and as people get to know one another outside of play. It's true, some kinksters set up safewords and these can help mitigate sticky situations. Myself, I prefer just to communicate (using words, eye contact, breathing, body language, moans, groans, etc.) with my partner, both inside and outside of play.
As a submissive, I can certainly communicate, in advance, the things I'm comfortable with and those I'm curious about. In the moment though, this can change depending on many factors - the comfort level I have with my partner, headspace during the scene, other thoughts on my mind, stress at work , etc.
Here's a personal example of why pre scene/play negotiation sometimes needs real-time adjustment. One of my quirks is that I'm quite claustrophobic. This presents challenges during restraint, bondage, caging, and other play of this ilk. I've played this way many times (though) and always communicate to my partner, beforehand, that my claustrophobia may kick in unexpectedly. In that event, I ask that they release me as quickly as possible - that is, unless they want to deal with a totally hysterical, panic stricken, hyperventilating submissive who will *never* play with them again. Thankfully, my polite request has never been ignored.
So... here I was with a partner who regularly bound, gagged, and had her way with me... much to both our enjoyment. One morning I woke up to find she had blindfolded me and bound my hands and feet to the bed. This wasn't unusual for us, but for some reason my mind reacted oddly. As I awoke, I wasn't expecting to find myself unable to move. Upon opening my eyes and not being able to see, panic set in and I started fighting against my bonds. My partner tried to calm me by whispering "it's okay, you're fine... I'm just going to play with you for a while". I responded by saying " I feel trapped and uneasy... I'm not sure if I can do this right now". She kept playing with me while whispering words of encouragement ("you're okay pet... I'll keep you safe"). Also to her credit, she adjusted my bonds so that I was more comfortable. Still, try as I might to calm myself, more panic set in.
After a while I said "I'm sorry, but I need you to untie me please". My domme looked at me and I said "I just don't feel right... I feel trapped... I feel startled... it feels like I can't breathe... I'm not enjoying this". She untied me and I immediately felt better. My breathing returned to normal and we continued to play.
I don't know why I suddenly felt so uncomfortable, but I did. What my domme did (tie me up while I was sleeping) was well within our negotiated limits, but at that particular moment I couldn't go there. As a responsible, loving dominant, she got me to safety and after that we did future restraint sessions that went fine.
My point to this whole story is that even when you've negotiated and perhaps know your partner very well, things change dynamically. That which is negotiated beforehand can change in mid-play and, likewise, consent may be withdrawn at any time.
hopelessfool's paddle-to-the-breasts scenario is a case where it seems more negotiation up front would have helped. Were I the dominant in that scenario, depending on how the submissive voiced their concerns, I might be more or less receptive. This points out something else. Dominants, just like submissives, are people with their own concerns, headspaces, and feelings. Yes, I realize this is obvious, but my point is that even when all parties mean well, sometimes people misunderstand one another and/or things just go wrong.
Back in my more toppy days, I certainly had a few scenes go badly and sometimes this was directly my fault (in that I misjudged my submissive's limits and feelings, or what she meant). The best you can do at this point is to apologize, kiss your partner all better, and, if need be, later on, talk about how to prevent the same mishap from recurring.
I always want my partner to know that their feelings, safety, and enjoyment are of utmost importance to me. Putting my submissive hat back on, as a submissive, if my partner screws up, I prefer they say something like "sorry pet, I made a mistake" rather than something that sounds like dommely roleplay rhetoric. Trying to calm me with role-speak won't likely rebuild my trust or convince me of someone's sincerity. So yeah, just talk to me as a human being and things will be fine.
Elan.
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RE: Topping from the Bottom v finding a good match for ... - .gif){kind=avatar}
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