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No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope - 3/18/2009 1:29:10 PM   
camille65


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Status: offline 		"Pope Benedict XVI refused Wednesday to soften the Vatican's ban on condom use as he arrived in Africa for his first visit to the continent as pope.

Sub-Saharan Africa has been hit harder by AIDS and HIV than any other region of the world, according to the United Nations and World Health Organization."

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/africa/03/17/cameroon.pope/index.html#cnnSTCText?iref=werecommend

I understand (but do not agree with) his stance on marital sex being for reproduction but to say that condoms still shouldn't be used in a place that desperately needs to stem the tide of HIV/AIDS just freaking pisses me off and saddens me to no end. It makes me wish that I had enough money to supply all the countries in the world with free condoms.




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RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope - 3/18/2009 1:32:15 PM   
rulemylife


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Status: offline 		Which is one of the reasons the Catholic Church is dying a slow death.

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RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope - 3/18/2009 1:36:07 PM   
Vendaval


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RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope - 3/18/2009 1:42:41 PM   
camille65


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Status: offline 		It shouldn't be permitted, to me that is an absolute abuse of power and nothing more than murder. He is opening his arms to the spread of HIV and AIDS when he has the power to be making an enormous difference. It is a form of genocide and I wish something could be done. Someone in that position simply should not be able to take such a detrimental stand when it comes to the health of so many.

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RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope - 3/18/2009 1:46:23 PM   
Lockit


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Status: offline 		And I thought my dementia was bad...  Take it from a guy... I don't care how important he is... that hasn't gotten laid, isn't a doctor and clearly isn't thinking right considering all, to speak of responsible sex.  It is clear they aren't listening to him anyway...

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RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope - 3/18/2009 1:56:06 PM   
camille65


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Status: offline 		But he is listened to, and there lies the danger. This could really have been an opportunity for change.

He makes me think of a teacher who deliberately lies and teaches his children the wrong things out of hubris.

I truly think that he is misusing his power and that he needs to be stopped, but I don't know what to do about it.

It is one thing for an individual to be terribly wrong about something, but it is another thing altogether when that individual has such great influence.


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RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope - 3/18/2009 2:00:49 PM   
SilverMark


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Status: offline 		Vend you say it so well  there is nothing to add.

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RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope - 3/18/2009 2:02:41 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

But he is listened to, and there lies the danger. This could really have been an opportunity for change.

He makes me think of a teacher who deliberately lies and teaches his children the wrong things out of hubris.

I truly think that he is misusing his power and that he needs to be stopped, but I don't know what to do about it.

It is one thing for an individual to be terribly wrong about something, but it is another thing altogether when that individual has such great influence.



I take it you are not Catholic.

As someone with years of indoctrination, trust me, it is not hubris.

It is an archaic belief system but he does sincerely believe what he says, as many of his followers do.

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RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope - 3/18/2009 2:04:20 PM   
Phoenixpower


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RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope - 3/18/2009 2:06:01 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower

...yeah yeah and no terminations...we know the idealistic view of the church *yawn*


I'm not defending it, just trying to explain.

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RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope - 3/18/2009 2:21:52 PM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

But he is listened to, and there lies the danger. This could really have been an opportunity for change.

He makes me think of a teacher who deliberately lies and teaches his children the wrong things out of hubris.

I truly think that he is misusing his power and that he needs to be stopped, but I don't know what to do about it.

It is one thing for an individual to be terribly wrong about something, but it is another thing altogether when that individual has such great influence.



I take it you are not Catholic.

As someone with years of indoctrination, trust me, it is not hubris.

It is an archaic belief system but he does sincerely believe what he says, as many of his followers do.

I'm not sure you need to defend it Rule,he is the Pope of the Catholic Church.....their views on contraception are part and parcel of their faith.To expect the church hierchy to contradict centurys of belief and dogma is rediculous.
He is a man of faith,not a scientist nor a doctor his edicts are religous edicts....not scientific thesis.
While I agree his and the church's stance is archaic,it like the religous tenets of other religions should be respected.

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RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope - 3/18/2009 2:25:16 PM   
hlen5


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Status: offline 		According to his doctrinal (sp) view, he's correct. If the people he was addressing totally abstained until married and never committed adultery, great, ride bareback. He's wrong to preach no condom use as a matter of course. Dead wrong.

My comment stands no matter where he would have made that pronouncement. I'm not singling out his African audience.

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RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope - 3/18/2009 2:30:41 PM   
camille65


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
While I agree his and the church's stance is archaic,it like the religous tenets of other religions should be respected.


This is where I get angry.

Respect... should not be at the cost of lives. Lives that could be spared through the simple use of condoms.

Rulemylife, no I am not Catholic but I know several that agree with me on this matter.


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RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope - 3/18/2009 2:32:01 PM   
slvemike4u


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Status: offline 		Well hlen5 in point of fact his audience is composed of adherents to his faith(disclaimer here,I am lapsed Catholic)and is in compliance with his and their core beliefs.To say he was wrong is to question his and their rights to their beliefs.....you really want to go there?

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RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope - 3/18/2009 2:33:24 PM   
rulemylife


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Status: offline 		Mike, why respect something that has no logic to it?

It's not like Catholic doctrine has not undergone many changes over the years.

Since VaticanII they have conformed their views to the reality of the day.

Maybe time for some new updates.

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RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope - 3/18/2009 2:35:21 PM   
rulemylife


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Status: offline 		I don't believe I am disagreeing.

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RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope - 3/18/2009 2:36:42 PM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
While I agree his and the church's stance is archaic,it like the religous tenets of other religions should be respected.


This is where I get angry.

Respect... should not be at the cost of lives. Lives that could be spared through the simple use of condoms.

Rulemylife, no I am not Catholic but I know several that agree with me on this matter.

Camille his words have no influence on anyone other than those that beleive.How can he as leader of the Catholic Church be expected to do anything but lead his flock .It's religion.....it's about faith not science.

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RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope - 3/18/2009 2:38:03 PM   
hlen5


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Status: offline 		I did say:   1) According to his doctrine, he was correct, 2) for him to make that statement (to the world at large and not just PRACTICING catholics) "as a matter of course" was wrong.

I stand by my statements and post.

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RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope - 3/18/2009 2:40:20 PM   
Lockit


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Status: offline 		In that bible... it says.. paraphrase here...(start) That god doesn't like divorce but allows it because he knows that it will take place.(end... and it was Jesus who said this.)  The forgiveness of sin's is provided, though they do not want anyone to take advantage of that.  I would think that it would be time to give a little wisdom.. such as god's in knowing his people would sin and make some provision for it.  The pope needs to consider the whole of the message.  And I would say that to his face... if he stood before me.  I would also address the gift of decernment with him.

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RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope - 3/18/2009 2:43:11 PM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Mike, why respect something that has no logic to it?

It's not like Catholic doctrine has not undergone many changes over the years.

Since VaticanII they have conformed their views to the reality of the day.

Maybe time for some new updates.

This isn't Catholic doctrine...this is a core tenet of the faith.To concede that sex is for anything other than propagation is heresy.This wouldn't be an update this would be a reversal leading to catclysim in the church.Luther and the Reformation would seem tame after the response to such a papel declaration

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