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RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope - 3/19/2009 8:31:24 AM   
FullfigRIMAAM1


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I agree with Mike, with this explanation...
The church preaches that there should be no sex outside of marriage between two heterosexual adults, no abortion, and sex should be for procreation purposes.    If people were following those rules, the illness would in fact, be contained.    The problem with the church, is that they fail to see that we only choose to utilize the laws/recommendations that suit us.

What the pope fails to say, and which does have deadly consequences is...   Our position is against condom use and abortion, as long as you remain chaste until you are married with one partner, and will engage in sex for procreation purposes with your one and only partner.    Unless you can follow all of the above, we strongly urge you use condoms if you fall to the sins of the flesh, at all times.    M

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RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope - 3/19/2009 8:33:45 AM   
sirsholly


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the pope has his head up his ass

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RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope - 3/19/2009 8:36:59 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly
the pope has his head up his ass


At least he doesn't need a condom to do that safely  .

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RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope - 3/19/2009 8:39:32 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly
the pope has his head up his ass


At least he doesn't need a condom to do that safely  .
that hat had to hurt


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RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope - 3/19/2009 8:44:02 AM   
UPSG


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

I am very sorry if anyone takes what I say as offensive, but it is my oppinion, the pope is an ass, he puts religious dogma before people's health and welfare. Sorry, my belief is people's health and welfare come first, as there is no point in believing in something that is not going to on a practical level help you or your family.

I grew up Roman Catholic, I was one until I became of the age to question and subsequently left catholicism due the answers being distasteful, I wanted to be no part of such a club. The club of the peoplemaybe, a religious club to beat the believer into submission and control, (my thoughts only).

So if I were the pope, I would advocate using  the vatican wealth, and aquiring a fleet of Hercules aircraft so that Africa could be flown across in a methodical mapping pattern and there be 'seeded' with millions of rubber  jonnies pushed out the back for everyone to find, so everyone can 'sin', but at least they can do it in safety. That to me, is perhaps an extreme action, but it is what I believe a church should be about, helping and healing the disadvantaged not feeding them with words of gobbldigook which is toss all help.

But Ratzinger, I have a bad feeling about that guy,



Actually, while I disagree with the Pope and the Catholic Church - I favor Brazil's methods which I doubt most people in the U.S. scared of "communism" would favor no matter their pretended "outrage" over HIV/AIDS - if every Catholic followed Church teaching (that includes not committing adultery, and not having sex before marriage) there would be little concern for them acquiring a sexually transmitted disease.

And being raised Catholic today means little as Catholics - ask any Evangelical Protestant - are notoriously ignorant of their own Church teaching. This what I'm about to say is a fact about Catholicism: The Church expects very few people to actually follow all Church teachings this is why the sacrament of confession exists, but the Church in her teachings raises the bar high because the Church postulates all the baptized should seek to become saints. There is no way in hell one can honestly suggest the Catholic Church holds that most Catholics (51% or more) are saints. Very few Catholics are beatified saints.

A beatified saint might be something short of a person that has reached Buddhahood or obtained Nirvana in Buddhism. Not quite, the Catholic concept of living saints falls short of that and saints as they are in heaven, within the Catholic concept, is more comparable to Buddhist concepts of gods (which Buddhist believe were humans that achieved entrance into one of the many realms of heaven). Do you hate Buddhism or the Dali Lama or Shaolin monks because they - Buddhism - has a strict or rigorous curriculum, because as a "gym" they turn out "saints," Boddhistavas (spelling?), and spiritual atheletes?

Most your good football teams or boxing gyms are demanding and hard. Most never make the cut or excel. Most Catholics nor most people aren't going to become St. Francis of Assisi or Mother Teresa of Calcutta (who in spite of her detractors, gave up the flower of her youth, men, personal wealth, high fashion, to dress like Hindu women and take care of their most rejected in society by "love" not modern medical care). Most Catholics and most people aren't going to become Green Bay Packers or top notch pro boxers either. Why cry about our lack to measure up to high standards. The Pope can't stop anyone in Africa from doing what they want ergo the Rwandan Genocide or Camorra in Naples or the U.S. led invasion in Iraq.

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RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope - 3/19/2009 8:44:44 AM   
kittinSol


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Rofl! You just made me realise that the papal cone, or whatever it is called, is oddly reminiscent of the KKK's choice in headgear.

The current pope went to the Nazi Youths and just tried to rehabilitate a few Holocaust deniers in his ranks. I wonder if there's a correlation? Because let's face it... It's no coincidence that Benedict looks exactly like Emperor Palpatine.


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RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope - 3/19/2009 8:48:14 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: UPSG

The Pope can't stop anyone in Africa from doing what they want ergo the Rwandan Genocide or Camorra in Naples or the U.S. led invasion in Iraq.



You're right. And it's precisely because his power is non-existent that he should shut the hell up about how and when people should fuck, and concentrate instead on the business of providing spiritual solace to those that need it.

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RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope - 3/19/2009 10:10:54 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: UPSG

The Pope can't stop anyone in Africa from doing what they want ergo the Rwandan Genocide or Camorra in Naples or the U.S. led invasion in Iraq.



You're right. And it's precisely because his power is non-existent that he should shut the hell up about how and when people should fuck, and concentrate instead on the business of providing spiritual solace to those that need it.

and perhaps he should see condoms as a way to keep people alive in the process?


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RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope - 3/19/2009 11:41:06 AM   
UPSG


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: UPSG

The Pope can't stop anyone in Africa from doing what they want ergo the Rwandan Genocide or Camorra in Naples or the U.S. led invasion in Iraq.



You're right. And it's precisely because his power is non-existent that he should shut the hell up about how and when people should fuck, and concentrate instead on the business of providing spiritual solace to those that need it.


You're ignorant as shit of social science I see. And little do you know how well trained in bigotry you are.

Many in the Western world have been trained - like we do dogs - to think a certain way. As my Africology teacher that is a Haitian and a Voodoo Priest points out, the United States to this day, does this with both the Catholic Church and Black peoples.

Tone and diction count tremendously in articles or essays in communicating messages. I can speak of the Great Britain or the island of Cuba. Where ignorance, poverty, and strife are found in Africa I can speak of its darkest, deepest sections and refrain from using such language to speak about high school dropouts, poverty, heroine addiction, and homicide in various parts of Naples, or knife fights in Scotland.

I served over in war with the U.S. Marines and like countless other Catholics (some my Catholic German ancestors in the U.S. Civil War) we have laid filled this nations battle fields with our corpses and corpses of It's enemies so that that flag that waves can be raised for one more day, or more especially corporate and political interest can fulfill the ends of the machinations.

Nothing in Islam in U.S. history has ever suffered like the Catholic experience in the U.S. Frequently attacked, Churches burned, in the 1800's and Italians lynched second to Blacks down South. What Catholics did was build universities, hospitals, and provide hundreds of thousands if not millions of soldiers through the course of her history. Yet Americans on the political left - keeping with the Two Party partisan propaganda that affects this nations conscience - encourages Americans of all social class and backgrounds to seek to "understand" Islam and know it to be a beautiful and peaceful religion. Point blank I served with few Muslims in the Corps other than Black-Americans part of the Nation of Islam (N.O.I.). And unlike the disproportionate numbers of Catholic Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, and Irish-Americans in the U.S. Marine Corps and Army, goddamn few to no Islamic Arab-Americans serve in those outfits.

I take it as a personal insult that to this day, few Americans (more appropriately United Statesians) know jack shit about Catholicism but attribute an enormous amount of falsehoods to it.

I believe you are a European. Ignorance - shalt I say the "darkest, deepest parts of Europe" - produce walking morons today on the subject.

The Pope is a Catholic. I know this goes over the heads of most secular people (maybe I need to present the subject matter in the format of fill-in-the-blank or multiple choice) but when I was a practicing Catholic I was as responsible as the Pope or as any nun to adhere to Catholic teaching. If the current Pope is adhereing to Catholic teaching on sex and some individuals person in Kenya is not then that comes down to what Protestants would call "personal accountability" - which admittedly, in between the WWII and Generation Y genertation there exist little to none among whining lay Catholics or former Catholics.

I'm one of the biggest sinners to have ever trekked through Catholicism. Needless to say I went to confession often. I'm not even a practicing Catholic today - though I still hold respect for its well developed religious philosophy (aka theology) - but to this day, whatever I enjoy sexually, in whatever format that may be, I chalk that up to me and I don't blame the Catholic Church or the Pope. If I request to be a sexual slave of someone, or if I'd become a dominant filling some subs mouth full of my cock, that is me as a man. I answer to God. No need for me to disparage the Pope or the life of Mother Teresa because one or both of them may have excelled in a spiritual, athletic fitness, like a middle weight boxer before the bright lights and entrance into the squared "ring." If I'm not as strong in certain areas of my character then I'm just not as strong.


(This is not to say I don't recognize the complexity life. Martin Luther was a brilliant man, and perhaps in some ways sincere, yet he was delusional and likely bipolar. Years of abuse from his mother and father, and his father a pagan with terrifying tales of goblins, scarred his mind. Thinking you see the devil, getting into "shit" throwing and fart fights with the devil, and bending over, exposing your ass, and telling the devil to come jump up your ass is not the mark of sanity. Likewise a murder can be good person and a prostitute contracting HIV an emphatetic person who has had a life shaped by many tragedies)

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RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope - 3/19/2009 11:44:05 AM   
LaTigresse


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Gawd, is there anyone that consistantly posts longer, more long winded posts?

Let's just cut the chatter and all agree............da pope is a putz.

Now I have an old Prince song going through my head. "you can be the presideeeeeeeeeeent, I wanna be the pope! The pope!! You can be the side effect, I wanna be the dope."

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My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope - 3/19/2009 11:46:37 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

You're ignorant as shit of social science I see. And little do you know how well trained in bigotry you are.
Kittin? Hardly!!!

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RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope - 3/19/2009 11:48:54 AM   
kittinSol


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Woah... why you chose to take my post so personally is a little bit of a mystery to me. Are you the Pope? And what does being Euro have to do with anything? The Pope used to be a Nazi. And he likes Holocaust deniers. Need we say more  ?

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RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope - 3/19/2009 11:51:02 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

Let's just cut the chatter and all agree............da pope is a putz.
sums it up nicely

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RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope - 3/19/2009 11:52:52 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: UPSG

The Pope is a Catholic.



Yes, but is the Pope a Catholic?

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RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope - 3/19/2009 11:57:14 AM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

The Pope can't stop anyone in Africa from doing what they want


why can't he encourage the catholics in Africa to use condoms?
 
isn't he the catholic mouthpiece of God?
 
whatever he decrees IS church doctrine, n'est-ce pas?
 
if he woke up tomorrow and made a declaration that God told him to encourage the world to use condoms if they can't keep it in their pants, doesn't that make it official dogma for the whole religion?
 
isn't that how the catholic church has gone about changing up the rules over the course of their history...councils of cardinals and papal decree?
 
"Nicean creed", "Friday the 13th" and "Inquisition" ring a bell?
 
please excuse this slave's ignorance on the workings of the catholic church, if somehow she is wrong in her perceptions...as this slave is merely an American-born pagan on the fastrack path to Catholic Hell and has only studied the religion from an outsider perspective...and rarely, if ever, has used condoms.

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RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope - 3/19/2009 12:00:07 PM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

...Now I have an old Prince song going through my head. "you can be the presideeeeeeeeeeent, I wanna be the pope! The pope!! You can be the side effect, I wanna be the dope."...


YEEEEAAAAHHH!
 
"Honey only flock 2 the bee thats the pope
Not the president with government lame"

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RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope - 3/19/2009 12:03:13 PM   
slvemike4u


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I must admit to being a little surprised at all the consternation this is causing.A dog pissing against a fire hydrant should surprise no one.A pope preaching against the use of condoms is no surprise either.
Now if elected officials,like a certain past President of the U.S.A. were to push a similar agenda I could see the outrage.But the Pope speaking as a Pope I still don't understand the outrage

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RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope - 3/19/2009 1:01:19 PM   
UPSG


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Woah... why you chose to take my post so personally is a little bit of a mystery to me. Are you the Pope? And what does being Euro have to do with anything? The Pope used to be a Nazi. And he likes Holocaust deniers. Need we say more  ?


Kittin, what do you know about those times? You say "Nazi" as though I'm suppose to react like a trained dog to the word. Should I get excited if I'm reminded General Robert E. Lee was a Confederate? The world is either black or white right. Good or bad. The Pope I doubt had any more personal responsibility with Jewish deaths than the founders of the State of Israel (who were in bed with the Nazi's). Interesting enough, old Jewish men who understood those times - in Europe - far better than you or I and some of the Rabbi's forgive the Pope his youth.

I have a good feeling you would have been right a long with supporting the politically left-wing Nazi party.

You don't understand my frustration for two reasons: You never surrendered your youth to war, and you weren't raised in a country where the culture repeatedly suggests to you how evil and sinister your religion (and Catholicism is cultural in some ways) is. I've recieved as much flak if not more in the United States for being Catholic as I have for being "Black" (mulatto). And it wouldn't be so bad if most the people at least knew what the hell they were talking about. That's what irritates me the most.

WWII comes up and people feel the need to point out Catholic Nazi's or Nazi supporters. Interestingly enough, I never hear the political left in the U.S. that supports Buddhism, connect the Japanese soldiers of WWII to Buddhism. And yes they were not just into Shinto but Zen Buddhism. Kind of like Ghangis Khan was Buddhist (building towers out of human skulls).

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RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope - 3/19/2009 1:02:55 PM   
UPSG


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Woah... why you chose to take my post so personally is a little bit of a mystery to me. Are you the Pope? And what does being Euro have to do with anything? The Pope used to be a Nazi. And he likes Holocaust deniers. Need we say more  ?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claus_von_Stauffenberg  
quote:

Claus Philipp Maria Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg (15 November 1907 – 21 July 1944) was a German army officer and Roman Catholic aristocrat who was one of the leading officers of the failed 20 July plot of 1944 to kill German dictator Adolf Hitler and remove the Nazi Party from power in World War II Germany. He was one of the central figures of the German Resistance movement.
 
quote:

The Stauffenberg family is one of the oldest and most distinguished aristocratic Roman Catholic families of southern Germany.[1] Among his maternal Protestant ancestors were several famous Prussians, including Field Marshal August von Gneisenau.
    Movie Trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSy96KB7Dh4     Sex slaves in Japan:  http://www.asiansexgazette.com/asg/japan/japan03news83.htm   Religion in Japan: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ja.html   The Good Nazi: http://www.nytimes.com/books/98/12/13/reviews/981213.13wudunnt.html  
quote:

The Good Nazi
The diaries of a German civilian who saved thousands during the Rape of Nanking. By SHERYL WUDUNN Sixty-one years ago, Japanese soldiers captured the ancient Chinese capital of Nan-king, torturing, raping and killing vast numbers of people in one of the bloodiest massacres in modern history. Yet there is a stunning difference of opinion on exactly what took place. Some Japanese have tried to say -- perhaps wishfully -- that the massacre never happened, while many Chinese regard it as a symbol of Japanese brutality and one of the ugliest landmarks of an ugly century.
 
quote:

He compares the soldiers to the ''hordes of Genghis Khan'' and laments: ''One might well believe the Japanese Army is made up of ex-convicts. Normal people do not behave this way.''
  Pope saves over 600,000 Jews: http://www.forbes.com/2008/10/27/pope-pius-jews-oped-cx_mk_1028kaylan.html  
quote:

In mid-September, the site ran a four-day symposium at the Vatican on the subject of Pius XII. (I was invited but, alas, couldn't make it.) The U.S. media has remained almost uniformly silent on the event. From the evidence presented there, and from what I've seen, it seems incontrovertible that Pius did all he could to save Jews and indeed saved countless thousands, some 860,000 lives according to one estimate.


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RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope - 3/19/2009 1:41:09 PM   
UPSG


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

The Pope can't stop anyone in Africa from doing what they want


why can't he encourage the catholics in Africa to use condoms?
 
isn't he the catholic mouthpiece of God?
 
whatever he decrees IS church doctrine, n'est-ce pas?
 
if he woke up tomorrow and made a declaration that God told him to encourage the world to use condoms if they can't keep it in their pants, doesn't that make it official dogma for the whole religion?
 
isn't that how the catholic church has gone about changing up the rules over the course of their history...councils of cardinals and papal decree?
 
"Nicean creed", "Friday the 13th" and "Inquisition" ring a bell?
 
please excuse this slave's ignorance on the workings of the catholic church, if somehow she is wrong in her perceptions...as this slave is merely an American-born pagan on the fastrack path to Catholic Hell and has only studied the religion from an outsider perspective...and rarely, if ever, has used condoms.


Your comments, and admitted ignorance, only makes Pagans look bad and not Catholics.

It is a Catholic virtue to seek to learn about others.

The Inquisition is exaggerated and I would refer you to Henry Kamen who is both ethnically Jewish and an historian of Spain. Kamen puts the Spanish Inquisition - regarded as the most notorious - at having put to death approximately 5,000 people over the course of several hundreds years.

Manning Marable in his book How Capitalism Underdeveloped Black America notes that about 5,000 Black-Americans soon after Reconstruction, were lynched in a period of 50 years or less throughout the South. (several hundred years > fifty years or less) And they were lynched in some of the most brutal ways - far more brutal at times than the Inquisition - including burning at stakes. In fact the jails for the office of the Inquisition were Diseny Land compared to the U.S. Southern prison camp from the late 1800's into the early 1900's. Southern camps have been compared to Nazi concentration camps, with Black men laying on boards, starving to death, nothing both a sack of bones, with vermin running over their faces.

So, if the Catholic world is to be portrayed in popular imagine - incorrectly - with people running around screaming in fear, then the Southern U.S. going into the 1930's ought damn well be imagined in that same way or worse. Nightmare for thousands of Blacks and poor White "crackas" it was.

Marable. p. 119
quote:

The lynchings committed against Blacks in the early twentieth century were designed specifically to evoke this special kind of terror. Walter White described these murders as being "executed with a bestiality unknown even in the most remote and uncivilized parts of the world."

quote:

Fingers, ears and other body parts of the Black victims were eagerly seized for souvenirs

quote:

...The blacks were forced to hold out their hands while one finger at a time was chopped off. The fingers were distriubuted as souvenirs. The ears of the murders were cut off. Holbert was beaten severly; his skull was fractured, and one of his eyes, knocked out with a stick, hung by a shred from the socket. The most excruciating form of punishment consisted in the use of a large corckscrew in the hands of some of the mob. This instrument was bored into the flesh of the man and woman, in the arms, legs and body, and then pulled out, the spirals tearing out big pieces of raw, quivering flesh every time it was withdrawn.


There are plenty of lynchings in U.S. history that make both White-American Protestants and agnostics (admittedly perhaps not pagans) look like some of the most savage people to ever walk the earth. I dare not type some of it up because even for me it is hard on my stomach.

Yet, I have not inferred in this thread that the United States is an evil empire, I'm well aware of some of the evils that have been commited by the United States. I'm aware of the evils that have been commited by Japanese and various Amerindian tribes and or empires - all of who I admire some things about. But that is a Catholic virtue.

Now go back off and rant about how the Democrats are destroying the country or how the Republicans are the evil force in the world. Do what you've been trained to do.

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