RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope (Full Version)

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rulemylife -> RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope (3/18/2009 8:55:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: UPSG

And what is your point with all that in blue and and red?


The blue was to highlight the information in the link and to distinguish it from my own comments.

The red should have been obvious.  It was to show the comment of yours that I was directly rebutting.
quote:




The doctrine of Papal Infallibility works in the negative and not in the positive. It is essentially reduced to the assertion or belief that the Pope can only teach what has already been taught. The Pope can not come out and teach Jesus was not the second person of the Trinity - God - but a fictional character or second to the Prophet Mohammed. If an issue arises with the Virgin Mary the Pope can speak ex cathedra to say what is orthodox Catholic belief, time immemorial, and to be considered dogma.


That was a very impressive sounding speech that meant absolutely nothing, and you are apparently counting on people who can't see through the bullshit.

Please, if you would be so kind, define this nonsensical sentence for me:


The doctrine of Papal Infallibility works in the negative and not in the positive.

Then help me out with this one too:

God - but a fictional character or second to the Prophet Mohammed. If an issue arises with the Virgin Mary the Pope can speak ex cathedra to say what is orthodox Catholic belief, time immemorial, and to be considered dogma.

I mean it really does sound impressive, I give you credit there, but it's pretty much meaningless drivel.






UPSG -> RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope (3/18/2009 10:32:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: winterlight

What is boils down to let all the sinners die a horrible death. Let the priests molest all the children and pay out our hard earned money defending them or paying for all the lawsuits.
We go to church and support these people living in luxury in europe. Wasn't there something on the news about nuns living in luxury somewhere? Time to go back to simple times...

Hmmmmm called compassion huh to let people die. What happened to forgiving? I don't get it...


You really don't know where much of the money in catholic parishes go do you? I can tell you don't. And "Use of condoms are sinful therefore Catholicism does not forgive" is one of those kinds of arguments that as counterexamples. Go figure out what confession is for before you deduce illogically. Sweet Jesus. If people aren't spoon fed information they'll never exercise their minds to retrieve it. [8|]



****

As and FYI to journalism, though I'm no real reader of the National Catholic Reporter (which I believe tends to be very "liberal" - but maybe I'm wrong) I found this quote by Bill Moyers offered under the "About Us" section of NCR.

http://ncronline.org/mission-and-values

quote:

TV journalist and author, Bill Moyers, wrote the following on the occasion of NCR’s 40th anniversary in 2004:

In Tom Stoppard’s play “Night and Day” one of the characters—a news photographer—says, “People do terrible things to each other, but it’s worse in places where everybody is kept in the dark.” Because a closed society cannot be a free society, the quality of journalism and the quality of democracy are inextricably bound. I believe this to be so in matters of religion, too; it is impossible for me to imagine that our Creator would find a closed mind compatible with seeking truth that sets us free.

Without the faculty of self-correction all political and religious institutions, given time, go bad. For decades now the National Catholic Reporter has been courageously committed to independent journalism whose only aim is real news—the news we need to keep our freedom. In a time when a handful of megamedia conglomerates control more and more of what we read, see and hear, NCR remains faithful to journalism as a moral calling, obliged to get as close a possible to the verifiable truth. I would, as a citizen, be poorer without it; so would American democracy.

NCR can and has exercised decisive influence on the 67 million Catholics in this country and it can help shape its democratic institutions. Religion should expand the dialogue, not contract it.



DomKen -> RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope (3/18/2009 10:36:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
If you abstain before marriage and are tested before marriage and faithful after marriage it will absolutely work to defeat Aids. He is right one more time.

This is of course incorrect and there are many thousands, millions?, of dead people as proof.



UPSG -> RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope (3/18/2009 10:51:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: UPSG

And what is your point with all that in blue and and red?


The blue was to highlight the information in the link and to distinguish it from my own comments.

The red should have been obvious.  It was to show the comment of yours that I was directly rebutting.
quote:




The doctrine of Papal Infallibility works in the negative and not in the positive. It is essentially reduced to the assertion or belief that the Pope can only teach what has already been taught. The Pope can not come out and teach Jesus was not the second person of the Trinity - God - but a fictional character or second to the Prophet Mohammed. If an issue arises with the Virgin Mary the Pope can speak ex cathedra to say what is orthodox Catholic belief, time immemorial, and to be considered dogma.


That was a very impressive sounding speech that meant absolutely nothing, and you are apparently counting on people who can't see through the bullshit.

Please, if you would be so kind, define this nonsensical sentence for me:


The doctrine of Papal Infallibility works in the negative and not in the positive.

Then help me out with this one too:

God - but a fictional character or second to the Prophet Mohammed. If an issue arises with the Virgin Mary the Pope can speak ex cathedra to say what is orthodox Catholic belief, time immemorial, and to be considered dogma.

I mean it really does sound impressive, I give you credit there, but it's pretty much meaningless drivel.


You keep making smartass comments, I suppose you think that buttresses your arguments. Let me tell you something, it behooves a person to know what they are talking about if they want to pontificate on that topic. And if a person makes a mistake or simply did not know something there is no shame in admitting either one.

Another thing, I love wikipedia, and I'll use it as easy reference, however, if I really want to attack someone's argument I would use another source (at least more than just wikipedia). Wikipedia is not regarded as a credible academic source. What I'm saying, is no professional or student could ever referrence it as a source.

Also, if I wanted to learn about Buddhism I would read Buddhist literature above and beyond wikipedia. Incredible I know. When I wanted to know the Islamic view on certain issues I went to Islamic sources. I have a book with Augustine, Aquinas, and sections of Buddhist and Hindu sacred scripture in it. Buddhist sacred writing on sex would surprise Western people who - to the annoyance of some Eastern world Buddhists - have fictionalized much of Buddhist belief. But then most people in the United States would be surprised to find out the rate or number of Buddhists monks (vowed celibate) dieing of AIDS.

I'll find another source outside of myself on the doctrine of Papal Infalibity since you want to make smart remarks and state I'm wrong.



rulemylife -> RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope (3/18/2009 11:07:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: UPSG


You keep making smartass comments, I suppose you think that buttresses your arguments. Let me tell you something, it behooves a person to know what they are talking about if they want to pontificate on that topic. And if a person makes a mistake or simply did not know something there is no shame in admitting either one.

Another thing, I love wikipedia, and I'll use it as easy reference, however, if I really want to attack someone's argument I would use another source (at least more than just wikipedia). Wikipedia is not regarded as a credible academic source. What I'm saying, is no professional or student could ever referrence it as a source.

Also, if I wanted to learn about Buddhism I would read Buddhist literature above and beyond wikipedia. Incredible I know. When I wanted to know the Islamic view on certain issues I went to Islamic sources. I have a book with Augustine, Aquinas, and sections of Buddhist and Hindu sacred scripture in it. Buddhist sacred writing on sex would surprise Western people who - to the annoyance of some Eastern world Buddhists - have fictionalized much of Buddhist belief. But then most people in the United States would be surprised to find out the rate or number of Buddhists monks (vowed celibate) dieing of AIDS.

I'll find another source outside of myself on the doctrine of Papal Infalibity since you want to make smart remarks and state I'm wrong.



Uh-huh.

First, you've never answered my previous questions.

Second, you are right, it was an easy reference.

There were far more available, should I post them or can I count on you to Google for yourself?

Which brings me to the question of why are we talking about Hinduism, Buddhism, and Islam?



UPSG -> RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope (3/18/2009 11:17:31 PM)

The person in source number two is better at explaining what I was trying to say by use of the word "negative." (largely because he understands it better than me, and probably refreshes himself on Catholic subjects, and or studies its theology far more than I do)

http://www.catholicfaithandreason.org/papal_infallibility.htm

http://papaltruth.blogspot.com/

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03588e.htm

quote:

Misconceptions?     Non-Catholics often confuse the pope’s gift of ‘infallibility’ with ‘impeccability’. They think the Catholic Church is claiming her Popes are sinless or that the Pope is claiming inspiration from God for every pronouncement he makes. This is not the case. In fact, infallibility is attached to his office, not his person. It is a protective gift, not a creative one introducing new revelation. Peter Kreeft observes that the Church should not be mistaken for a political body because it is an organic body and no organic body can be a democracy. It must have a head. Christ gave the Church a head


Black bold above my emphasis.

quote:

1) The charism of infallibly is a "negative charism". The word, "charism" means gift from God. Calling this a "negative charism" means that when the gift is invoked, the statement made by the Pope is WITHOUT error. It does not mean that the infallible truth is the whole truth or that the infallible teaching cannot be further developed and explored. It simply means that whatever was defined was free of theological error. For example, if I had the power of infallibility, and I say infallibly that "the earth orbits the sun", we can continue to ask questions such as "How many days does it take?" or "Does this imply the sun is the center of the universe."

2) The charism of infallibility can only be invoked on a matter of faith and morals. Thus, my last example could probably not actually be defined infallibility, because it is a matter of scientific inquiry, rather than a matter of faith and morals. The Pope must be speaking about an issue such as the divinity of Christ or the morality of abortion and so forth.

3) The charism of infallibility cannot be used to introduce a new doctrine. The charism is intended to develop, clarify, or define a position already held in the Church. For example, many Catholics are debating whether women have ever been priests or could be ordained today. The Pope could settle this issue infallibly by offering an interpretation of the Scriptures used on either side of a debate under the charism of infallibility. However, it is not the pope's job to introduce novel theories and speculation, or to seek out the latest scholarly findings in other fields to define an issue infallibly. Thus, even if the pope were to ordain women, he would need to show they were ordained in the past, or something Jesus said or did implied they could be ordained, and the principle was preserved in the tradition, even if not developed to its fullest. Typically, when infallibility is invoked, the Pope is expected to demonstrate that the teaching being defined has been present through the ages, even if in a seminal form.


quote:

The Greek term charisma denotes any good gift that flows from God's benevolent love (charis) unto man; any Divine grace or favour, ranging from redemption and life eternal to comfort in communing with brethren in the Faith (Romans 5:15, 16; 6:23; 11:29). The term has, however, a narrower meaning: the spiritual graces and qualifications granted to every Christian to perform his task in the Church: "Every one hath his proper gift [charisma] from God; one after this manner, and another after that" (1 Corinthians 7:7 etc.). Lastly, in its narrowest sense, charisma is the theological term for denoting extraordinary graces given to individual Christians for the good of others. These, or most of these, are enumerated by St. Paul (1 Corinthians 12:4, 9, 28, 30, 31), and form the subject-matter of the present article. They are: "The word of wisdom, the word of knowledge, faith, the grace of healing, the working of miracles, prophecy, the discerning of spirits, diverse kinds of tongues, interpretation of speeches" (1 Corinthians 12:8-10). To these are added the charismata of apostles, prophets, doctors, helps, governments (ibid., 28).



4u2spoil -> RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope (3/18/2009 11:33:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Unless I am mistaken he said condoms will not solve the Aids problem... he is right. He further said abstinence in premarital sex was an answer. He is right again.

If you abstain before marriage and are tested before marriage and faithful after marriage it will absolutely work to defeat Aids. He is right one more time.

So why get on him for a path that will work?


For the same reason teaching kids not to have sex doesn't reduce teen pregnancies. For the same reason selling guns only to responsible adults doesn't stop their kids from getting into the gun cabinet and shooting themselves or friends. What people should do and what they actually do are two different things. To completely ignore that people go down different paths in favor of telling them what they should be doing never solves the problem.

And the problem with overly simplistic answers is that the root is rarely simple. What do you do with a monogamous couple where one partner already has AIDS (quite possibly from birth in this case)? The fact is, condoms significantly reduce the spread of AIDS and STDs. You can disagree with people substituting them for monogamy and church approved sex, but the fact remains that when used properly they do reduce the spread of the disease. To allege that using them makes it worse in a country where there are already urban myths around condom usage is just plain irresponsible and not acknowledging the reality of the situation.

It also assumes that a monogamous couple has no communicable diseases, and that's not a constant either. Someone can be born with AIDS or any number of diseases. In that case piousness and abstinence until marriage wouldn't make a difference.




RainydayNE -> RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope (3/19/2009 1:47:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

Predictable, unconscionable and deadly in consequences.


TOTALLY agreed.

i can not stand catholicism.



tornaway -> RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope (3/19/2009 7:09:56 AM)

  I am a proud recovered Catholic .    I left the church as a young teen , as soon as I began asking questions that no one was willing to give me answers to . They were out of touch with the real world then - and now - more than ever .   The crime of this , is that people in Africa  ( and elsewhere ) will continue to have kids they can barely care for , and worse - will be condemned to die horrible deaths .   While Popey boy lives a life of oblivious luxury .   Gr-r-r    [:'(]



LaTigresse -> RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope (3/19/2009 7:20:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RainydayNE

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

Predictable, unconscionable and deadly in consequences.


TOTALLY agreed.

i can not stand catholicism.


Me either. I see the catholic church as one of the most evil superpowers in the world today.



kdsub -> RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope (3/19/2009 7:31:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
If you abstain before marriage and are tested before marriage and faithful after marriage it will absolutely work to defeat Aids. He is right one more time.

This is of course incorrect and there are many thousands, millions?, of dead people as proof.


Now you know that’s not right... you cannot get aids off the toilet or out of the air. But we all know people are not faithful…but if they were it is the perfect path.

Now how many married people use condoms? I’ll bet not many so condoms are not a defense for aids any more or less then abstinence.

Butch



kdsub -> RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope (3/19/2009 7:33:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 4u2spoil

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Unless I am mistaken he said condoms will not solve the Aids problem... he is right. He further said abstinence in premarital sex was an answer. He is right again.

If you abstain before marriage and are tested before marriage and faithful after marriage it will absolutely work to defeat Aids. He is right one more time.

So why get on him for a path that will work?


For the same reason teaching kids not to have sex doesn't reduce teen pregnancies. For the same reason selling guns only to responsible adults doesn't stop their kids from getting into the gun cabinet and shooting themselves or friends. What people should do and what they actually do are two different things. To completely ignore that people go down different paths in favor of telling them what they should be doing never solves the problem.

And the problem with overly simplistic answers is that the root is rarely simple. What do you do with a monogamous couple where one partner already has AIDS (quite possibly from birth in this case)? The fact is, condoms significantly reduce the spread of AIDS and STDs. You can disagree with people substituting them for monogamy and church approved sex, but the fact remains that when used properly they do reduce the spread of the disease. To allege that using them makes it worse in a country where there are already urban myths around condom usage is just plain irresponsible and not acknowledging the reality of the situation.

It also assumes that a monogamous couple has no communicable diseases, and that's not a constant either. Someone can be born with AIDS or any number of diseases. In that case piousness and abstinence until marriage wouldn't make a difference.




Why did you leave off the last line in my post... or did you read it... if so you would see I was agreeing with you.

Butch



kittinSol -> RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope (3/19/2009 7:37:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
If you abstain before marriage and are tested before marriage and faithful after marriage it will absolutely work to defeat Aids. He is right one more time.

This is of course incorrect and there are many thousands, millions?, of dead people as proof.


Now you know that’s not right... you cannot get aids off the toilet or out of the air. But we all know people are not faithful…but if they were it is the perfect path.

Now how many married people use condoms? I’ll bet not many so condoms are not a defense for aids any more or less then abstinence.

Butch


There are other ways to get HIV than through sex. http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/factsheets/transmission.htm



Lashra -> RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope (3/19/2009 7:39:25 AM)

The pope needs to shut his mouth and open his eyes and his mind. How many people die from HIV/AIDS every year? and a simple condom could help prevent these deaths and the spreading of this disease. Sometimes I think that these religious types do not really care about people, all they care about is their image and the spreading of lies.

~Lashra



kdsub -> RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope (3/19/2009 7:44:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
If you abstain before marriage and are tested before marriage and faithful after marriage it will absolutely work to defeat Aids. He is right one more time.

This is of course incorrect and there are many thousands, millions?, of dead people as proof.


Now you know that’s not right... you cannot get aids off the toilet or out of the air. But we all know people are not faithful…but if they were it is the perfect path.

Now how many married people use condoms? I’ll bet not many so condoms are not a defense for aids any more or less then abstinence.

Butch


There are other ways to get HIV than through sex. http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/factsheets/transmission.htm


Yes but that is not the path of the world wide epidemic… heterosexual intercourse is the problem.

Butch



Vendaval -> RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope (3/19/2009 7:53:11 AM)

"Most children born with HIV in Africa die before their fifth birthday. The few who receive antiretroviral treatment can expect to live longer, but it would be much better if they were never infected in the first place. The vast majority of the two million children living with HIV in Africa would have been born healthy had their mothers received the kind of preventive care found in Western countries. At present, most African women are not even tested for HIV, let alone offered the drugs, counselling and infant formula that would help protect their babies.

Although all African countries have facilities for screening blood for HIV, most cannot guarantee the degree of safety found in the developed world. Because voluntary donors are rare, blood is often collected from family members and paid donors, which increases the risk of transmitting HIV. Use of poor quality test kits, unreliable supplies of equipment, and lack of trained staff can all compound this risk. Thirty-three of forty African countries surveyed in 2004 reported that they did not have fully operational quality systems in the blood transfusion service, including HIV testing. These countries collected around 2.7 million units of blood during that year, of which 88.5% were not tested for HIV in a quality-assured manner. Nevertheless, the blood safety measures already in place avert an estimated 500,000 HIV infections each year.27"

http://www.avert.org/global-hiv-prevention.htm



UPSG -> RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope (3/19/2009 7:53:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: UPSG
Roberto Saviano pointed out something rather interesting in his book Gomorrah. He stated that the AK-47 has killed more people than the atomic bombs have, and I believe he even stated it has killed more people than HIV/AIDS. Now, for the record, the Catholic Bishops of the USA state all Catholics in the U.S. must vote for gun control. (gun violence is the leading cause of death for young black males - to bad the Catholic Church can't be blamed for that)


Even the Center for Disease Control (CDC) has spoken about gun violence. The impact is not small (might I add just here in the USA I know more male victims of gun violence, dead and surviving, than I do with HIV. I actually only know one man that has HIV and zero women. I've also been shot at myself on the streets of the United States)

Robert Saviano in his book Gomorrah has this to say in a chapter specifically dedicated to the Kalashnikov (some may be unaware it is the most popular weapon in the world, and is pictured on one or more flags of Black-African nation-states).

p. 176
quote:

Nothing in the world - organic or synthetic, metal or chemical - has produced more deaths than the AK-47.  It has killed more than the atom bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, more than HIV, more than the bubonic plague, more than malaria, more than all the attacks by Islamic fundamentalists, more than the total of all the earthquakes that have shaken the globe.  An exponential amount of human flesh, impossible to even imagine.  Only one image came anywhere close to a convincing description, an advertisement at a convention: fill a bottle with sugar by pouring the grains from a small hole in the corner of the bag.  Each grain of sugar is someone killed by a Kalashnikov.


In the United States among many in the Hip Hop community the AK-47 is typically referred to as the "Chopper."  Saviano born and bred in Southern Italy, a Neapolitan, is more astute than most Americans (United Statesians), other than the members of the respected CDC, in coorelating the medical and mortality impact of the AK-47 in his Neapolitan society.  Unlike many public high schools (secular institutions of learning) that only require their student body do multiple choice and fill-in-the-blank homework and exams, almost all of my homework and exams in Catholic high school required contrast and compareison essays - in otherwords utilizing the methodology of "critical thinking." So, this kind of thinking is nothing new to me and I instinctively use it even when I read newspapers, magazines, or books.

This is a Milwaukee Journal article dated 2006 (the year 2007 recorded the lowest homicide rate in Milwaukee in something like over 20 years) but it is still pertinent today I believe. http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/29192834.html



quote:

Troy is one of thousands of shooting victims walking the streets of Milwaukee. Each year, on average, about 600 people are struck by gunfire in the city and survive, according to a Journal Sentinel analysis of data obtained from police, hospital and fire officials.


quote:

Froedtert is on pace to treat 459 shooting patients in its trauma center by year's end, a 34% increase over last year. Through September, Children's Hospital was running 38% ahead of last year, when it treated 110 young gunshot victims.

Researchers say paramedics, doctors and nurses have become so good at preventing shootings from becoming deaths that the homicide rate is no longer an accurate barometer of violence.

These urban medics save thousands of people who are shot every year in cities around the country, using techniques that were honed in war zones from Vietnam to the Middle East.

Now their own innovations are helping their military counterparts save the lives of American soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan. Advances in emergency medical care over the last 40 years are responsible nationally for 30,000 to 50,000 fewer homicides annually, a study at the University of Massachusetts Amherst concluded in 2002.


Above in bold my emphasis.

In light of the numbers above about annual shooting victims in Milwaukee (not the most violent city in the U.S.) we might begin by using critical thought and asking how many days in a year are there?

From the continent of Africa with small arms weapons and landmines, to the streets of the United States the Catholic Bishops and the Vatican have consistently over the years been critical of U.S. and other world powers policy and economic relation to these things. Vatican and Clinton Administration diplomatic relations were heavily strained over U.S. involvement in pumping various weapons into war torn Africa where child soldiers were rampant. Never made the light of U.S. news though instead, U.S. news across the board determined informing the U.S. public about the Catholic cult of indulgences was more "news worthy." [8|]

Limitedly informed citizenry + limitedly skilled citizens in "critical thinking" = a limitedly fulfilled democracy.

Now, if one does not have equal or greater outrage over the gun violence issue, as they do about the Popes comments and or stance on condoms in light of HIV, then the word hypocrisy might potentially be applicable.



Aneirin -> RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope (3/19/2009 8:16:21 AM)

I am very sorry if anyone takes what I say as offensive, but it is my oppinion, the pope is an ass, he puts religious dogma before people's health and welfare. Sorry, my belief is people's health and welfare come first, as there is no point in believing in something that is not going to on a practical level help you or your family.

I grew up Roman Catholic, I was one until I became of the age to question and subsequently left catholicism due the answers being distasteful, I wanted to be no part of such a club. The club of the people[sm=discipline.gif]maybe, a religious club to beat the believer into submission and control, (my thoughts only).

So if I were the pope, I would advocate using  the vatican wealth, and aquiring a fleet of Hercules aircraft so that Africa could be flown across in a methodical mapping pattern and there be 'seeded' with millions of rubber  jonnies pushed out the back for everyone to find, so everyone can 'sin', but at least they can do it in safety. That to me, is perhaps an extreme action, but it is what I believe a church should be about, helping and healing the disadvantaged not feeding them with words of gobbldigook which is toss all help.

But Ratzinger, I have a bad feeling about that guy,



DomKen -> RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope (3/19/2009 8:19:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
If you abstain before marriage and are tested before marriage and faithful after marriage it will absolutely work to defeat Aids. He is right one more time.

This is of course incorrect and there are many thousands, millions?, of dead people as proof.


Now you know that’s not right... you cannot get aids off the toilet or out of the air. But we all know people are not faithful…but if they were it is the perfect path.

Now how many married people use condoms? I’ll bet not many so condoms are not a defense for aids any more or less then abstinence.

Butch

Never said anything about getting AIDs from anything but your sexual partner. Your original statement remains wrong. I'm trying to get across the fact that one person doing what you say does not guarantee they won't catch HIV from their partner who didn't obey the same rules.



kdsub -> RE: No Condoms In Africa, says the Pope (3/19/2009 8:24:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
If you abstain before marriage and are tested before marriage and faithful after marriage it will absolutely work to defeat Aids. He is right one more time.

This is of course incorrect and there are many thousands, millions?, of dead people as proof.


Now you know that’s not right... you cannot get aids off the toilet or out of the air. But we all know people are not faithful…but if they were it is the perfect path.

Now how many married people use condoms? I’ll bet not many so condoms are not a defense for aids any more or less then abstinence.

Butch

Never said anything about getting AIDs from anything but your sexual partner. Your original statement remains wrong. I'm trying to get across the fact that one person doing what you say does not guarantee they won't catch HIV from their partner who didn't obey the same rules.


You don't need to get that across... that was the point of my first post when I said if only people would be as pious as the Pope.  Maybe I should have been clearer... you know the third grade level. Now if I could only spell at the third grade level.

Butch



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