RE: Condoms in Africa, best you can do ?

RE: Condoms in Africa, best you can do ? (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid

Message

rulemylife -> RE: Condoms in Africa, best you can do ? (3/27/2009 9:16:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Vendaval I am going to paraphrase a quote from another site on this same topic- "Elderly cross-dressing virgin visits AIDS ravaged continent to promote methods that will lead to yet more deaths" Now, now, just because the Pope wears a dress doesn't mean he is a cross-dresser.

scarlethiney -> RE: Condoms in Africa, best you can do ?t's (3/28/2009 5:45:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: UPSG quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol quote: ORIGINAL: UPSG I don't know what you are referring to? Development of instincts would fall under nurture. Rofl!!! Do you actually READ the things that you write? Instincts are present at birth, they're inherited sets of behaviour, and as such the debate still rages as to whether human beings even have them anymore. They are not learnt, and they do not 'fall under nurture'. Dear oh dear [:(] ... Fine. I stand corrected. I was using the term as I understood it used in the everyday vernacular. If I was wrong I was wrong. It's a sign of character to be able to admit when you have been wrong about something, and I learned that in the Marine Corps if no where else. I won't hold my breath waiting for anyone else to do so. I have in fact - like all human beings - been wrong numerous times throughout the course of my life. The Corps, however, instilled in me the ability to readily admit error if I have convincingly discovered I've erred. For example, I voted for George Bush the first time (the first Republican I ever voted for) and I went along and supported his invasion of Iraq. When I became convinced I made an error I admitted it and did not attempt to excuse it or deny it to liberals and those that opposed the invasion. I was once a very ardent supporter of Israel but once I became convinced I was wrong about that I simply admitted and changed my position. I have not once in any of the threads seen anyone simply admit they were wrong about something - generally related to Catholicism - when I provided information to them showing they were wrong. I have not seen it once regarded the rather degrading stereotypes people have of Africans in this thread admit they were wrong. That aside, Time magazine, dated March 23, 2009, list as #6 of the 10 ideas changing the world, business investment in Africa. Some excerpts. quote: In Africa's case, the perception has long been... Africa is hopeless, a place of war and famine seemingly populated almost entirely by tyrants and children with flies in their eyes. According to this view, if Africa generates any kind of growth, it is in suffering... quote: Most Africans are not middle class, but most also no longer live in extreme poverty. quote: Chinese engineers are at work across the continent, mining copper in Zambia and cobalt in the Democratic Republic of Congo and tapping oil in Angola. Nor is this merely exploitative. China bought its access by agreeing to create a new infrastructure for Africa, building roads, railways, hospitals and schools across the continent. quote: Ecobank CEO Ekpe says part of the explanation for China's zeal for Africa is a new and way of looking at Africans. "[The Chinese] are not setting out to do good," he says. "They are setting out to do business. It's actually much less demeaning." Some of my new ways of looking at the world are actually not entirely of my own creation. Some of it has been influenced by a new swell of mulattoes attempting to think of things in new ways (quite a number of mulattoes in the U.S. seem to have German ancestry or Jewish ancestry). A mulatto of Jewish ancestry has influenced my thoughts about the Arab and Asian world for instance. Actually, he's influenced my views on a number of things. He's fairly educated guy also. But it's give and take I suppose, because I supposedly have influenced his views on Latinos and Africans, which have generally been closer to my heart and thoughts than Arabs and Asians. But my mind has really opened up toward the Arab and Asian world - not least of which helped by my fond memories in the UAE. That Brazilian college classes on Chinese culture and language are reoprted always filled has had an impact on my thoughts too. Basically the old tired U.S. view of Africa as child like creatures incapable of anything but starving and begging for charity, and that Israel and Europe are the only ones I'm supposed to support for military causes, are no longer a paradigm I hold to. It is fine if others do. I'm on no crusade to change American minds on anything. I'll argue my opinion to a point but that's it. Black male unemployment rate in Milwaukee - within the prime working age - is around 50% or so. One black social scientist sitting on a panel discussion at my university put the real figure more at around 70% (which is more what I figured because I was already aware how "unemployment" is calculated is some what deceptive). Throughout the "Frost Belt" cities the picture is really no better. Frankly, those figures are worth rioting and civil war. I'm afraid to say the situation is only likely to get worse for a number of reasons. Cleveland I thank to God I don't live in - it's a third world shit hole compared to Dubai. But then again one of my friends that [sm=lol.gif] lived through some very turbulant times in Guatamala with the death squads claims there are a number of third world areas in the U.S. Its a sign of "character" to know when to shut up! [8\|] unfortunately you haven't gotten that lesson.

scarlethiney -> RE: Condoms in Africa, best you can do ? (3/28/2009 5:57:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol quote: ORIGINAL: ArmoredOne Personally, I am all for dropping enough machetes and other chopping style weapons into Africa, then building a nice thick batch of barbed wire around the entire continent and let them sort it out themselves. I always wonder what kind of lunacy inspires people to write things like that. Do you realise what you're saying there, or are you just blinded by hate? Your being kind kittin lets call it what it really is. Ignorance and hate = racism. ArmoredOne I've gotten my hands slapped by the Mods for saying this once before but your certainly worth repeating it. My only hope for you with your thought process is that you never procreate. scarlet

UPSG -> RE: Condoms in Africa, best you can do ? (3/28/2009 9:32:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Vendaval You are leaving out historical facts of memorable events like say, oh the Crusades and the Inquisition. And the Catholic Church's position on women's rights, contraception, abortion and sexual abuse of unmentionables by clergy is deplorable. quote: ORIGINAL: UPSG This bigoted idea that all Catholics are this one narrow way inflicting suffering on all men comes from ingrained prejudice. The Inquisition has been described by historians as "a popular movement" and for good reason. It was directed at baptized Christians (Protestants and Catholics - and that is also to include "conversos") and the majority of Catholics seemed to have supported it. De La Casa (if I remember correctly that was his name - the great fighter for Amerindians in Latin America) for example would have gladly seen heretics be they Indian, mulatto, mestizo, or black or white burn at the stake. The office of the Inquisition never entirely went away - Pope Benedict XVI (this current Pope) once led the office which came down from the Inquisition in fact. Practicing Catholics still can suffer punishment under this office - mostly it is Priests and or theologians and teachers who recieve the punishments (e.g. not being allowed to teach at any Catholic universities). The Inquisition actually was derived - like many things in Catholicism (e.g. alter, tabernacle, candles, Torah etc.) - from ancient Judaism. It is rather evident in both the Old and New Testament (e.g. Moeses ordering the slaughter of thousands of Hebrews during the Exodus, the Jewish trial of Jesus on heresy). As a learned Jewish mulatto once pointed out to me and others (though I already realized this) Jesus accepted (perhaps respected) the authority of the Jewish Inquisition (which would lead to his death). That Jewish guy does not at all agree with Catholicism, like Protestants, the Dali Lama or anyone else who is not a Catholic. However, he is not anti-Catholic, in fact he acknowledges that educated Catholics move from a different starting point than he does on many issues (e.g. interpreting scripture). I suspect he would find - becauses he's very much into intellectualism and appreciates a number of things of Western Civilization - a number of the comments in this thread about Catholicism asinine. As for the Crusades I'm a great supporter of that historical epic. That you mention it to me as though I should immediately assume (through training) it was horrendous just evidences my point about people being trained to think a certain way. Because of Catholics and the Catholic Church everyone can thank they still have Western Civilization rather than some form of Turkish, Islamic civilization. Abortion? I'm against abortion by-and-large and believe in most cases it should be outlawed. If you are a woman and freely decide to have sex then you should be woman enough to accept the responsibility - of creating life - that comes with that. I feel the same way for men. I don't understand the Catholic Church to be against "women's rights." In fact there are quite a number of Catholic nuns who believe in female superiority within the scope of morality, yet in some of their views, they believe the roles between men and women should be different. It should be undertood that a person can disagree with something or a system of thought without being necessarily hateful. I don't agree with communism but I don't have an irrational hatred of communists. In fact on some points perhaps, I find agreement with communists. I can say the same with Buddhists, Protestants, capitalists and secularism et cetera. You will not convince me the Catholic Church (church means roughly "gather community" and the Catholic Church understand laity combined with the religiously vowed clergy to be "Church") is nor that it as some astonishingly wicked past. I'm not the most well read man on earth, but I have done enough reading, and have acquired enough "critical thinking" skills through contrast and comparison essays from high school on (I was largely educated by the Catholic Church and not the United States - my only secular education began recently via college, and it is possible I will eventually be educated in a Catholic university), that I know that if I should hate Catholicism for historical wrongs (especially directed at mulattoes and blacks) then it is only rational and logical for me to hate the United States of America.

NorthernGent -> RE: Condoms in Africa, best you can do ? (3/28/2009 9:40:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: UPSG As for the Crusades I'm a great supporter of that historical epic. That you mention it to me as though I should immediately assume (through training) it was horrendous just evidences my point about people being trained to think a certain way. Because of Catholics and the Catholic Church everyone can thank they still have Western Civilization rather than some form of Turkish, Islamic civilization. The above is of dubious proportions. The Crusades was an attempt by Europeans to break the Islamic strangehold over trade and trade routes. Europeans had a sea to the West and were encircled to the South and East; it failed.

NorthernGent -> RE: Condoms in Africa, best you can do ? (3/28/2009 9:43:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: UPSG As for the Crusades I'm a great supporter of that historical epic. That you mention it to me as though I should immediately assume (through training) it was horrendous just evidences my point about people being trained to think a certain way. Because of Catholics and the Catholic Church everyone can thank they still have Western Civilization rather than some form of Turkish, Islamic civilization. The above is of dubious proportions. 'The Crusades' was an attempt by Europeans to break the Islamic strangehold over trade and trade routes. Europeans had a sea to the West and were encircled to the South and East; it failed. Edited to add: in fact, it culminated in Europeans sacking and pillaging the pre-eminent city in Christendom (Constantinople), during their return journey.

FullCircle -> RE: Condoms in Africa, best you can do ? (3/28/2009 10:20:05 AM)
PON: I wouldn't sell the White House or Vatican in this climate: it is a buyer's market at the moment and you won't get a good price.

UPSG -> RE: Condoms in Africa, best you can do ? (3/28/2009 10:28:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent quote: ORIGINAL: UPSG As for the Crusades I'm a great supporter of that historical epic. That you mention it to me as though I should immediately assume (through training) it was horrendous just evidences my point about people being trained to think a certain way. Because of Catholics and the Catholic Church everyone can thank they still have Western Civilization rather than some form of Turkish, Islamic civilization. The above is of dubious proportions. 'The Crusades' was an attempt by Europeans to break the Islamic strangehold over trade and trade routes. Europeans had a sea to the West and were encircled to the South and East; it failed. Edited to add: in fact, it culminated in Europeans sacking and pillaging the pre-eminent city in Christendom (Constantinople), during their return journey. NG, I always enjoy your posts and or disagreements and discussion with you. You know well there are things you and I don't see eye to eye on, but you are a fair minded person, and I have to give you credit for always attempting to be objective (we all have biases). In my view the Crusades eventually resulted in the Turks only penetrating Europe so far. Dates and names are always something I have trouble remembering off the top of my head - especially as it relates to historical topics. So, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the Turks were stopped from penetrating into Austria, and collaborative resistance by Catholic monarchs (and their Catholic subjects who did the fighting) has to be factored in as essential to stopping the Turks. I will agree with you that the original objective of the Crusades were to win back the Holy Land territories. Nonetheless, objectives over can change over time. As one historian points out - I believe the ethnic Jewish Henry Kamen - the Reconquest of Spain was in fact part of the "Crusades" (that's not a term the "Crusaders" applied to themselves so the term itself carries some biased emotive charge). Do I agree with everything that occurred during the Crusades? No. Many war crimes took place. But I don't agree with everything that occurred during WWII either yet I think it was good the Allies fought the Axis. What happened to Constantinople (as well to Jerusalem) was horrible. Sometimes I wonder how some Catholics are even Catholic, the scale of their cruelty and crimes so outrageous. I think of the Belgium in the Congo (at least I think it was the Congo region?). I have no problem with violence for certain instances or causes, and Catholicism per its teachings is not a pacifist religion. I prefer to understand my own "catholicity" more in relation to Brazilian Catholicism or within the new historical people created (mixed-race very often), that we now term "Latinos."

UPSG -> RE: Condoms in Africa, best you can do ? (3/28/2009 10:31:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FullCircle PON: I wouldn't sell the White House or Vatican in this climate: it is a buyer's market at the moment and you won't get a good price. [sm=lol.gif] Ha ha ha... yes... this is very true. Although, Brazil supposed has the strongest economy out of the 30 major economies of the world at this time. The Brazilian economy has done better than any other nation through this global financial trouble, so, perhaps the real estate market is a little more profitable there?

NorthernGent -> RE: Condoms in Africa, best you can do ? (3/28/2009 11:23:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: UPSG Sometimes I wonder how some Catholics are even Catholic, the scale of their cruelty and crimes so outrageous. Religion is an idea; there are competing ideas and needs, and as such religion does not even begin to guarantee virtuoisty. I mean, by extension of its very essence (the false dichotomy of good and evil; add to this the belief in the one true path), religion is a cause for which many will die given certain circumstances: Catholic, Protestant, Islamic, Jewish, Hindu etc: the label pales into insignifance when compared with the human predisposition to need a cause/identity. The European population had risen sharply by the time of the Crusades, which meant Europeans needed land to conquer and wealth to steal. Added to this, Pope Urban II wished to reassert Papal authority in the East (Constantinople in particular). 'The Crusades' was much more than a religious disagreement. It's interesting that the Pope promised earthly forgiveness to all European soldiers willing to fight (which is not too dissimilar to the moral lectures by today's leaders intended to have people fight for their power).

UPSG -> RE: Condoms in Africa, best you can do ? (3/28/2009 11:27:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: philosophy quote: ORIGINAL: UPSG Catholics have every right - over the course of 2,000 years I might add - to acquire material properties. ...while preaching the spiritual benefits of poverty? Some may call that hypocritical. I view all this much differently, partly due to my Catholic background and shaping but equally due to my fairly good amount of reading on various Catholic subjects. First off all, let me say right away, from a Catholic theological stand point, especially as it relates to liturgical worship, I very much favor beautifully built churches. But more to your point, to become a Pope (highly improbable for any Catholic) in practical terms requires one to be a Catholic priest and by de fault a male of course (I might be wrong but seem to remember reading long ago, that officially a person does not have to be a priest to become Pope - I know one does not have to be Latin Rite and that there was at least one non-Latin Rite Pope in the past). Those termed "secular priests" do not take vows of poverty. Religious order priests take vows of poverty, however, I believe this "poverty" in understood more in terms of what economists would call "relative poverty" and not "absolute poverty." The later can result in death - not even Jesus died of hunger nor is there cause to believe he was malnutrioned. So, a Pope will start his religious life off as a lowly priest in some parish - at least most likely. Now, we might ask what is the life of a priest? Well, generally you have to have a college bachelor degree and 4 or 5 years seminary training at least to become a Catholic priest. Once you become a priest you will recieve a modest wage and likely work about 16 hours a day. Your reward? Spiritually aside (they await their reward for their sacrifice and service in heaven), you have to give up any hope of ever getting married, raising a family (priests are human too - and believe it or not it affects them emotionally as they age into their 40's onward to watch former friends or brothers reciving the fruits of marital life and children) or becoming "upwardly mobile" as that is understood by Catholic laity and secular world at large. So, it should come as no surprise most priestly vocations come from regions of the world where abject poverty is more pronounced. Very few young men in high-income-nations like the U.S., that are raised Catholic, aspire to the priesthood. And you can imagine being college educated puts Catholic priests above the U.S. mean (average) in educational attainment. I mention that because they could use their college education to try to obtain higher paying secular jobs. I'm a product of both the U.S. Marine Corps and U.S. Catholicism. And I can tell you I would have better chance of becoming a 4 star General in the Corps than I would of becoming a Bishop (little lone a "Cardinal" or more especially the Pope). You become a priest in Catholicism and there is slim chance in hell you'll ever be raised to a Bishop. Slim chance in hell. The Bishops take on a roll and position - like officers in the military or professionals and upper executives in corporations or like U.S. Senators as opposed to city level alderman - that puts them in meeting with the de facto "nobility" of the world. Popes meet with forgien dignitaries all the time. One of the greatest admires of Pope John Paul II was Gorbachev the former President of Russia (he claims no other man in the world so effected the fall of communism across the world). The upper-class world expects to deal with educated and refined men. In the Latin American tradition, as well as many Asian traditions, of the educated upper-class, much of the vulgar, hateful commentary found in this thread would be regarded as "low class" and the product of inadequate formation. Even Carhles V (head of the Holy Roman Empire) dealt with Martin Luther with more class than some on here have dealth with doctrinal disagreements with Catholicism. So, Bishops and Popes are expected to live and conduct themselves on a certain level. The Vatican itself belongs to the Catholic Church - for heritage and generations. That a Catholic priest eventually arises to live within the Vatican one day I would not regard as "hypocracy." This also delves into aestehtic philosophies (Marcel Proust viewed the cathredrals across Europe to be the only great works of art to still be functionally used) and issues of architecture. That london has some of the greatest old and post-modern architecture in the world, and that New York largely largely has much less attractive buildings, does not make London or it's people necessarily bad. Some of my favorite architecture can be found in the Western styled logged homes in Colorado, the post modern commerical facilities of London, and some of the incredible modern and post modern residential homes and gardens in Brazil. How one views beauty and art and it's place in the world or within the life of humans will affect in some measure how they view the old but beautiful Vatican city. Many of the homes built in the U.S. today are erected in a contemporary culture of disposability - and in my view and in the view of many others, these homes often lack the character, beauty, and solid structure of homes that were built over a century ago in the U.S. The Popes and Bishops live well in the Vatican. This is their due - I begrudge them not. Someone like John Paul II that spoke something like 7 or 13 different languages, highly educated, and by all measures an "intellectual" ought live good in my opinion as he leads a Catholic Church that is geographically world wide. - The Catholic Church views itself as a nation (not state not nation-state, although Vatican City is a sovergein country), in the scope that the ancient Israelites viewed themselves as a "nation" (the Israelites were not just made up of ethnic Hebrews and many Hebrews were pagans and not monotheists). In this sense the Catholic Church is a multiethnic global nation without boarders. It was "global" and "multicultural" before those became catch words today or thought essentially good concepts.

UPSG -> RE: Condoms in Africa, best you can do ? (3/28/2009 11:38:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent quote: ORIGINAL: UPSG Sometimes I wonder how some Catholics are even Catholic, the scale of their cruelty and crimes so outrageous. Religion is an idea; there are competing ideas and needs, and as such religion does not even begin to guarantee virtuoisty. I mean, by extension of its very essence (the false dichotomy of good and evil; add to this the belief in the one true path), religion is a cause for which many will die given certain circumstances: Catholic, Protestant, Islamic, Jewish, Hindu etc: the label pales into insignifance when compared with the human predisposition to need a cause/identity. The European population had risen sharply by the time of the Crusades, which meant Europeans needed land to conquer and wealth to steal. Added to this, Pope Urban II wished to reassert Papal authority in the East (Constantinople in particular). 'The Crusades' was much more than a religious disagreement. It's interesting that the Pope promised earthly forgiveness to all European soldiers willing to fight (which is not too dissimilar to the moral lectures by today's leaders intended to have people fight for their power). Well, it is true there were other motivations during the Crusades than simply religious. Be sure for many religious conviction was an overriding driving factor. From what I have read, contrary to popular belief, few of the European nobility made monetary profit off the Crusades (in fact it worked the opposite way often and Kings would finance Crusades with no return monetary value). However, merchants - especially Italian merchants (it seems few Italians were Crusaders) made lots of money off the Crusades by expanding their businesses into the Middle East. The Belgium were particularly cruel and inhumane in the Congo. I would tend to think that was more influenced by racial hatreds than by any religious animosities. I believe they were in the Congo by the time Europeans began to develop the concepts of "black" and "white" or "yellow man" and "red man" in the scope of their colonial efforts - making Europeans a once notoriously warring and ethnically divided people into "white people."

kittinSol -> RE: Condoms in Africa, best you can do ? (3/28/2009 11:47:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: UPSG As one historian points out - I believe the ethnic Jewish Henry Kamen - <snip><snip> (mixed-race very often), that we now term "Latinos." <snip> Do you always reference people's ethnic backgrounds, or is it a trait you reserve for when you're posting on forum boards? Because it's really a rather strange habit you've got there.

FullCircle -> RE: Condoms in Africa, best you can do ? (3/28/2009 11:58:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: UPSG [sm=lol.gif] Ha ha ha... yes... this is very true. Although, Brazil supposed has the strongest economy out of the 30 major economies of the world at this time. The Brazilian economy has done better than any other nation through this global financial trouble, so, perhaps the real estate market is a little more profitable there? Yeah I suspect you would have to have been living in Brazil for some time to benefit from that though. UPSG we have to spot the next big thing before it is the next big thing.

UPSG -> RE: Condoms in Africa, best you can do ? (3/28/2009 12:02:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: philosophy quote: ORIGINAL: UPSG Catholics have every right - over the course of 2,000 years I might add - to acquire material properties. ...while preaching the spiritual benefits of poverty? Some may call that hypocritical. Phil, I forgot to mention that most Catholic laity - at least in high-income-nations like the U.S. - and most Catholic priests and even Bishops expect to retire in old age. In the case of Popes, as we saw with John Paul II, they keep laboring until death. Michael J. Fox - and I don't blame him - retired from acting as his neurological problems worsened. Pope John Paul II was both an old man and a man suffering from neurological problems yet he kept laboring - often times very long hours - because he elevated a Pope and considered his "cross" to carry. The cross being laboring until his death. If you saw Pope John Paul II's televised visit to Israel, you may remember the Jewish woman who was one of the Israeli's to greet him, and she broke down into tears, saying that as a young priest he saved her life. She was starving and attempting to flee from the Nazi's when she fell, unable to move to get on the train because she lacked the energy. It was according to her, John Paul II, a young priest, who picked her up and carried her to the train. She asked the young priests name before he turned to leave. Was he an evil man? Not to Catrholics. To people that are "anti-Catholic" (not just in disagreement with the Catholic Church) they will probably percieve him as evil. The excuse about Vatican wealth and beauty is something these people often use like those that dislike Jews resort to always emphasizing Jewish involvments in banking. This actually provides an example to my point to Term earlier in this thread, that its impossible for Africans to be starving and laboring at the same time, because biologically humans require calories to function, because calories equal energy. Basic biology.

UPSG -> RE: Condoms in Africa, best you can do ? (3/28/2009 12:29:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol quote: ORIGINAL: UPSG As one historian points out - I believe the ethnic Jewish Henry Kamen - <snip><snip> (mixed-race very often), that we now term "Latinos." <snip> Do you always reference people's ethnic backgrounds, or is it a trait you reserve for when you're posting on forum boards? Because it's really a rather strange habit you've got there. That is actually a fair question. No, I typically don't. I will often do it when discussing certain issues in which I realize people are emotively moved around certain ethnic or racial aspects to the topic. A person can be Jewish and hate ethnic Jews equal or more than any Neo-Nazi. So, if I appeal to a person's or historian's "Jewishness" it really makes little since - at least it proves nothing. I like to mention Henry Kamen's "Jewishness" because emotively it might move people not necessarily to believe his position but to at least allow for the possibility that he attempted to reach his conclusions objectively. We all have biases. I have a bias against Protestantism. However, the object for a person if they attempt to be true to their academic "character formation", should be to try and be objective. In doing so, I acknowledge a number of positive triumphs in the history of Protestantism. I might not agree with Protestants on a number of things, but I try to give them credit where it is due. For example, I don't at all agree with this U.S. Protestant culture of "Black Church" and "White Church," but being cognitive of the reasons behind the development of the Black Church in the United States my criticism becomes tempered, and I bear in mind all the essentially good things they (the Black Church) have historically done throughout the Black-American communities. I try to do the same with Jews, but that is fairly easy because I've really never developed any antagonisms against Judaism or Jews per se, not anywhere near like I have with Protestants. My only real area of criticism with contemporary ethnic and or religious Jews revolves more around the area of "history" or certain (not all) polemics around the Holocaust, and the issues of modern Israel and the Palestinians When it comes to family traditions of merchant knowledge and craft, I thing I admire Jewish and Chinese traditions in this. Black-Americans have none of that tradition - they have the obedient working class tradition that sells its labor and fears the law. The Chinese - outside of China - have a collective economy probably large than many of the worlds nation-states. Black-Americans could learn from some of the Jewish and Chinese families where "business" and how to make money are discussed over the dinner table, rather than "This job is hiring" or "You need to get a job" as opposed to obtaining a profession. And contrary to those who believe the Africans are proving "unfit" (per inadequately understood evolutionary theory), in the United States Africans on average (the mean) are better educated than White-Americans. So, when provided the opportunities that the United States has, they typically excel better than White-Americans and Black-Americans or even Latino-Americans.

FullCircle -> RE: Condoms in Africa, best you can do ? (3/28/2009 12:32:27 PM)
I'm loving the quantity if I was the eye in the sky reporting this I'd be using terms such as "Sheer weight of words."

Vendaval -> RE: Condoms in Africa, best you can do ? (3/28/2009 3:39:43 PM)
Or in the immortal words of Seinfeld, '"Yadda, yadda, yadda!!!" [:D]

UPSG -> RE: Condoms in Africa, best you can do ? (3/28/2009 5:18:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent quote: ORIGINAL: UPSG Sometimes I wonder how some Catholics are even Catholic, the scale of their cruelty and crimes so outrageous. Religion is an idea; there are competing ideas and needs, and as such religion does not even begin to guarantee virtuoisty. I mean, by extension of its very essence (the false dichotomy of good and evil; add to this the belief in the one true path), religion is a cause for which many will die given certain circumstances: Catholic, Protestant, Islamic, Jewish, Hindu etc: the label pales into insignifance when compared with the human predisposition to need a cause/identity. The European population had risen sharply by the time of the Crusades, which meant Europeans needed land to conquer and wealth to steal. Added to this, Pope Urban II wished to reassert Papal authority in the East (Constantinople in particular). 'The Crusades' was much more than a religious disagreement. It's interesting that the Pope promised earthly forgiveness to all European soldiers willing to fight (which is not too dissimilar to the moral lectures by today's leaders intended to have people fight for their power). Hey, if you get the interest you might want to read Shift by Carlos Ghosn. I read the book a while ago and found his short biography pretty interesting. He - like Hugo Chavez - is one of the men I most admire in the world, but they are two very different men of course, Ghosn is every bit the capitalist. I don't know how he is rated today but he was at one time regarded as the top CEO in the world by some. The man ran two companies at the same time, flying between France and Japan. He's ethnically Arab and he's an Eastern Rite Catholic. Apparently both his Eastern Rite Catholicism (I got the impression Lebanese women are the guardians of it, within the family structure) and his French Jesuit teachers made a huge impact on him. He credits his Jesuit instructors partly for who he is today. What I didn't know till I read his book was that Lebanese Christians proudly recall and embrace their cultural historical connections to France, that go all the way back to the Crusades Ghosn notes. He has lived in France, Japan, Brazil, Lebanon, and the United States. According to him Rio de Janeiro is the place he still feels most at home. He has family members - sisters and his mother I believe, and maybe some others - still living in Brazil. You may or may not know Brazil has a connection to Lebanon due to so many Labenese Arabs living there (similar to the largest number of Japanese outside of Japan living in Brazil). The man is extremely refined (you can tell by his writing and things he says), and trained as an engineer if I remember correctly, but his professional life has been spent in Brazil. Some regard him as the wave of the future and I know Ghosn believes the 21st century will be Brazil's. (which may - hopefully at least - in the next two decades, eradicate 99% of its favelas, and I'm not 100% sure but I think Sao Paulo might have more auto industry plants, including from the U.S., than Detroit right now) You can read the Editorial Reviews on his book Shift on Amazon. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Ghosn quote: Carlos Ghosn, KBE (Arabic: كارلوس غصن‎; born 9 March 1954) is a Brazil-born Lebanese businessman. He is the current CEO and President of Renault of France and Nissan of Japan. He is largely credited with turning around Nissan. As an outsider in charge of one of Japan's largest companies, Ghosn has been extremely successful. He was voted Man of the Year 2003 by Fortune magazine's Asian edition and is also on the board of Alcoa, Sony, and IBM. Ghosn became CEO of Renault, in 2005, succeeding Louis Schweitzer, while remaining CEO of Nissan as well.

ArmoredOne -> RE: Condoms in Africa, best you can do ? (3/30/2009 12:14:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: scarlethiney quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol quote: ORIGINAL: ArmoredOne Personally, I am all for dropping enough machetes and other chopping style weapons into Africa, then building a nice thick batch of barbed wire around the entire continent and let them sort it out themselves. I always wonder what kind of lunacy inspires people to write things like that. Do you realise what you're saying there, or are you just blinded by hate? Your being kind kittin lets call it what it really is. Ignorance and hate = racism. ArmoredOne I've gotten my hands slapped by the Mods for saying this once before but your certainly worth repeating it. My only hope for you with your thought process is that you never procreate. scarlet Hmmm, where to start in this post. Ignorance. Yes, I will admit that I am in possession of a great amount of ignorance when it comes to dealing with peoples whose sole fascination is violence, either escaping it or inflicting it. I do know quite a bit about violence itself, but not with the insane bastages down there that think chopping of hands is a great way of playing tag with everyone else. I have also never lived in an actual war zone, either, so I suppose that can be tossed in the ignorance catagory as well. Have you lived in a war zone or had direct contact with people bent on genocide? If not, then, by direct correlation, you are just as ignorant as I am. Hatred. I have a great many hatreds in this life. Men that seem the only way they can win an argument with a female is with brute force. A lot of different hatreds for things done to, well, a segment of the population that is now a permissable topic of conversation around here. People that insist on trying to line dance to White Zombie, and yes I have seen it. The list is probably pretty long, truth be told. In regards to the Africa situation, well, I can't really get into that. Already did that once and got in trouble with the overseers around here, despite saying nothing that any sane person could refute. Kind of feel like a one legged man in a soccer game. It's hard to expound on a concept when 9/10 of your argument will get your argument deleted. Racist. Yes and no. Racist in terms of drooling over a white sale at Sears just so I can update my wardrobe, no. Racist in terms of have total apathy for the fate of those that perpetrate the crimes that occur in Africa? Yes. I don't care if you are white, black, orange or purple polka dotted on a background of lime green. These people serve no solid purpose in human society. So yes, I wholly and completely advocate their removal from the face of the planet by any means available. Are you saying that these people, and I use the term loosely, deserve the unalienable right to exist and continue with the things that they are doing? And yes, this is fully and completely on topic. If you put an end to the genocide, governments can regroup and try to rebuild their nations, which right now are no more than killing fields, by and large. A functioning government is one that can provide for it's people with things like medical care, food and work. Who cares that some moron who thinks a 2,000+ year old book is the basis for a good society? More to the point, why should he be given any more consideration than any other ruling monarch/president/(insert random governmental pissant)? He controls jack and squat and only has the power to command those that are unable to function without the thought that no matter what they do wrong, someone, somwhere will forgive them for the things that they do in this life, instead of coming to grips with it on their own. The Pope has been about as useful in world politics as the Queen Mother in England has been for the last few decades. In fact, at times, he tends to cause more trouble than he solves, simply because he can't seem to get with the time and realize the outdated and comical rules of life in the Bible are basically worthless. Once you get past the 10 Commandments, the rest is nothing more than a bunch of moral stories that anyone with half a functioning brain can grasp. Give them rubber, I.U.D.s and anything else they want. But first, shoot every damned warlord in the head and anyone else that comes to their defense. Until the violence itself is stopped, the rest of it is about as likely as Peter Pan joining the Air Force. You can think all the joy joy thoughts you want, but in the end, the only true way to end violence with with bigger, stronger and most importantly, more vicious violence. Again, graveyards don't break peace treaties. Never once have I advocated flat out killing every living person there. Just let the violent ones kill each other off in a contained enviroment and let the rest of the people there go about their lives they way they should be allowed to: in relative peace and on their own terms.

Page: << < prev 4 5 6 7 [8]

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.0625