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RE: The Power or " Right" - 3/25/2009 11:43:29 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		Here we go..Let's dig the hole a little deeper.

Beth, daddysprop are correct.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth


not to speak for daddysprop or anything, but, seriously, you are dead wrong on that point.  judging by the reception that no-limit slaves get around this message board, "virtually anyone" aren't lining up in droves to own one.
 
quite the opposite, actually.
 
for example, would you agree to take responsibility for her...or for a similar slave that felt the exact same way about you having the absolute power or right to do as you please?  anyone else on this thread extolling the virtues of having a slave that doesn't limit them in some way who would be just tickled pink to have one move in with them?  where is the outcry for someone to use that chainsaw on...that won't run in the other direction once you fire it up?
 
it has been this slave's experience that the overwhelming majority of folks engaging in M/s and D/s relationships have absolutely NO desire to own or be a no-limits slave and more often than not, disparage the practice.



This is exactly my point.What type of a "man" would really want anything to do with you?  You don't need a master you need a "sober companion" or perhaps some sort of a protective bubble.  Otherwise you obviously would go around enaging in unhealthy activities that would ulitmately lead to your demise.

I agree, no sane person should want to be around you.  You are not worth the trouble.  The fact that there are people who find value in you speaks volumes about them. Why wouldn't they choose to be around someone that is mentally healthy? That has dealt with the issues that have tormented them?  Probably they are incapable of dealing with a woman that is "whole." 

I want someone that places value on me.  Not someone that goes around submitting willy nilly to everyone...Because then they value no one.  Including themselves.

The more I analyze all of this shit that we do.  (or "aotstwd.")  I realize that so much of it is complete garbage.  It is a dumping ground for the abused and the socially and morally bankrupt.  Who in the fuck cares that you have no limits? Why should it ever be viewed as a virtue?  Where is the line of thought that would permit us to teach our daughters the nobility in that sort of an individual? 

This sucks.  You guys are smart.  But there are parts of this "thang" that are definitely fucked up...This is one of them.

I don't have the time to clean up your messes.  I don't have the time to get involved with a recovering alcoholic or drug addict or someone that has some serious unresolved issues from their past.  I can't fix you. 

Everyone that is a "no-limit sub" has found their lid.  I can't say which is creepier...The no limit sub or the individual that is willing to take them on.  Both are rather pathetic.

Heavy sir...Yes, but it had to be said.

< Message edited by domiguy -- 3/25/2009 12:23:25 PM >

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RE: The Power or " Right" - 3/25/2009 11:54:25 AM   
ShaktiSama


Posts: 1674
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslut

Your blatant insinuation that all subs / slaves that are hired out are disease ridden whores was ill informed and judgemental. All the one's i know that partake in this, partake in this safely and as risk free as possible. Now saying that of course there are going to be those who don't give a damn and just fuck without condoms, but i do believe they are in the minority.


Then we are clearly not talking about people with "no limits", are we?  We are talking about people who operate within VERY STRINGENT limits defined by safe sex procedures and mutually desired activity. 

I'm going to be a good little domme and try not to point out that you just used the phrase "hired out" and "whore" in the same sentence and didn't realize they are synoymous.

quote:

How do you know that the limit of using a condom for penetration is set by the sub? Is it not possible that the Dom insists on the condom being used therefore the slave has set no limit? Most people i know do not get involved with others who would put their health at risk in the first place. 


All I see here is another free admission that a real "no limits" slave either 1) does not exist or 2) is, as you so eloquently put it, by definition "a disease ridden whore". 

You argument here is that the SLAVE PLACES A LIMIT on the level of safety for her BDSM activities; she simply does so at a DIFFERENT STAGE of the negotiations.  She insists on being penetrated by condomized strangers not when specific activities are being commanded, but in her initial choice of a master--i.e., by choosing a person who would not risk her safety and health by forcing her to submit to her body being riddled with STD's.

Personally, I would agree that this is the case in most D/S relationships that I consider healthy and non-abusive.  I still don't "get" the kink in general and find it creepy and unsexy even when practiced in latex body armor, but I feel the same way about plenty of other kinks that are "not my cuppa".

This being said?  Some dominant men and women who DO subject their submissives to abusive and degrading "use" of this kind.  These doms DO exist, and they DO risk the health and safety of their property, and their submissives DO suffer real life consequences from it, including a variety of veneral diseases and mental health problems.  I'm afraid I don't need to consult haughty and self-righteous anonymous strangers on the Internet to be "informed" about this subject; I have personally seen it.  A few of the bottoms I knew when I was much younger in Seattle were dying horribly after the fun and games were over.  By the time they had full-blown AIDS, it was a little too late for anyone to say "Ooops".

If you don't like the ugliness of the facts--too bad.  My own limits and tastes are shaped by life experience.  There are some things that I *never* need to see again, much less be responsible for.  If you enjoy this particular form of degradation--bully for you.  I'd prefer to have nothing to do with any slave who has been used in this fashion, or any dominant who regards it as "fun".  For the record, I also prefer to avoid people who spend a lot of time frolicking with Ebola monkeys or breathing deeply in tuberculosis wards.  I'm weird that way.


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RE: The Power or " Right" - 3/25/2009 1:18:26 PM   
InTonguesslut


Posts: 401
Joined: 3/5/2009
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quote:

Then we are clearly not talking about people with "no limits", are we?  We are talking about people who operate within VERY STRINGENT limits defined by safe sex procedures and mutually desired activity. 


I'll repeat what i said earlier :-
 
As i see it a no limits slave is only limited by the limits of her Dom. Therefore she is just careful to pick someone who would not or hopefully not (as you never know) ask her to commit murder, a bank robbery etc etc.  

quote:

I'm going to be a good little domme and try not to point out that you just used the phrase "hired out" and "whore" in the same sentence and didn't realize they are synoymous


I'm perfectly aware that hiring out and whore go together very well. However hiring out and disease ridden whore don't necessarily equate.

quote:

You argument here is that the SLAVE PLACES A LIMIT on the level of safety for her BDSM activities; she simply does so at a DIFFERENT STAGE of the negotiations.  She insists on being penetrated by condomized strangers not when specific activities are being commanded, but in her initial choice of a master--i.e., by choosing a person who would not risk her safety and health by forcing her to submit to her body being riddled with STD's.


NO. What i said was :-
 
How do you know that the limit of using a condom for penetration is set by the sub? Is it not possible that the Dom insists on the condom being used therefore the slave has set no limit?
 
quote:

This being said?  Some dominant men and women who DO subject their submissives to abusive and degrading "use" of this kind.  These doms DO exist, and they DO risk the health and safety of their property, and their submissives DO suffer real life consequences from it, including a variety of veneral diseases and mental health problems.  I'm afraid I don't need to consult haughty and self-righteous anonymous strangers on the Internet to be "informed" about this subject; I have personally seen it.  A few of the bottoms I knew when I was much younger in Seattle were dying horribly after the fun and games were over.  By the time they had full-blown AIDS, it was a little too late for anyone to say "Ooops".


I never denied this i said :-
 
Now saying that of course there are going to be those who don't give a damn and just fuck without condoms, but i do believe they are in the minority.
 
 








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RE: The Power or " Right" - 3/25/2009 1:29:54 PM   
InTonguesslut


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quote:

I agree, no sane person should want to be around you.  You are not worth the trouble.  The fact that there are people who find value in you speaks volumes about them. Why wouldn't they choose to be around someone that is mentally healthy? That has dealt with the issues that have tormented them?  Probably they are incapable of dealing with a woman that is "whole." 


Wow i'm amazed. Are you a psychic? Because if you can state categorically from just reading the boards that all no limits slaves are mentally unhealthy you must be. After all you can't see their every day relationships, interactions with their Doms. I'm impressed Domi.
 
quote:

I want someone that places value on me.  Not someone that goes around submitting willy nilly to everyone...Because then they value no one.  Including themselves.

Assumption or can you back that up with factual evidence that no limit slaves submit to everyone and anyone? Can you back up that they do not value themselves or their Doms?
 
quote:

I don't have the time to clean up your messes.  I don't have the time to get involved with a recovering alcoholic or drug addict or someone that has some serious unresolved issues from their past.  I can't fix you.

I haven't seen anyone ask you to.
 
Plan on coming down from your ivory tower of domliness anytime soon?

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RE: The Power or " Right" - 3/25/2009 2:09:16 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

This is exactly my point.What type of a "man" would really want anything to do with you? 


with this slave?  there's been all kinds of men interested in her, over the years, but at this point, this slave would definitely not be attractive to a man who desires their female companion to control/limit them and/or birth their babies.
 
it has been this slave's experience that the #1 thing heterosexual men want from a woman is sex.  after that, they want a dominant female who, at times, will acquiesce to behaving submissively, if inspired correctly, under certain conditions, terms and circumstances.  nothing wrong with that, if that is your thing.
 
however, not everyone posesses a dominant personality,(those pathetic losers!!!!), just like not everybody "feels" submission or is "inspired" to submit to one very particular person and never to anyone else.
 
currently, the Man interested in this slave is a wonderful man and it is a pleasure to serve Him.  His dominant personality is expressed throughout the day...He's the boss, at work and at home.  not once in 6 years has he demanded an appendage be presented for removal or for this slave to jump off of a cliff.  as a matter of fact, he has specifically stated that this slave is NOT allowed to die before Him and she has to endure her pain-filled foot, instead of cutting it off.
 
he's the type of man that wants things HIS way.  He doesn't want to be bitched at or argued with regarding His decisions.  He wants HIS limits to be respected, and they are.  He asks for input, from time to time, but not as a way of making sure He hasn't crossed any lines that this slave has drawn for Him.
 
He wants a slave that is obedient, where submission is not thwarted by a constant struggle between the slave's dominant personality's desire to maintain control/authority over some aspect of sex or life.
 
He is the type of man that isn't interested in teaching an otherwise dominant individual how to "act" submissive for Him, but would prefer submission to be an inherent part of who the individual is to begin with.
 
He doesn't feel the need to inspire or earn anyone's submission, nor does He need to be the ONLY focus of this slave's submission---He often loans her out to others for various reasons, helping folks plan events, teaching folks how to sew, yes, occasionally even for wax-play or rope bondage.  the decision is His as to who, where, what, when and how this slave will serve.
 
quote:

I can't say which is creepier...The no limit sub or the individual that is willing to take them on.  Both are rather pathetic.

it is this slave's opinion that neither Master nor His slave are creepy and pathetic...but of course, you are entitled to your opinion, as well.
quote:

This is exactly my point.What type of a "man" would really want anything to do with you? 

This should be your opening line to anyone you contact so they are aware of your sentiments. As an honest man - I'm sure it is. 
quote:

Who in the fuck cares that you have no limits? Why should it ever be viewed as a virtue?  Where is the line of thought that would permit us to teach our daughters the nobility in that sort of an individual? This sucks.  You guys are smart.  But there are parts of this "thang" that are definitely fucked up...This is one of them.
Why do you care about what you can't understand? No one is teaching anything to anyone. Well maybe you and your "one true way". As a reference and guide for how that's working why not provide an alternative story about how successful that has been for you?
quote:

I don't have the time to clean up your messes.  I don't have the time to get involved with a recovering alcoholic or drug addict or someone that has some serious unresolved issues from their past. 

Don't recall any "mess" involving beth. she's actually much stronger than I in many regards. Do you value a submissive so little that it's necessary for you to assume anyone representing complete and total trust in their partner not to need limits or safe-words MUST be coming from a past of alcoholism or drug abuse? I know the 'do-me' dom types who's idea of of dominance is laying down on the bed and issuing a dominating 'do me!' (Of course within the pre-established written and notarized and witnessed limits.) That sets the bar pretty low for yourself don't you think? However I grant you that there are a shit-load of 'true' submissives to fill that 'dominate' need aren't' there? It gets boring after awhile - trust me.

With some confidence you can, and may want to, take on the responsibility for another. Exhibiting it, you may even attract a strong, self-aware, individual who would allow you to do so. But first you'd have to understand the basic concepts of trust, integrity, and confidence. That may be a bit more difficult. 
quote:

I can't fix you.

No doubt - but why and where to you assume anyone in such a relationship seeks or needs "fixing"?  
quote:

Everyone that is a "no-limit sub" has found their lid.

I doubt they were looking for any "lid" but glad you think so - I guess. 
quote:

I can't say which is creepier...The no limit sub or the individual that is willing to take them on.  Both are rather pathetic.

I don't have such a problem deciding. I think the weak just don't understand and are afraid of the strong; and in their expression of ignorance they use the basic tool of attack. Not creepy and not worth worrying about, but worth saying.
quote:

Heavy sir...Yes, but it had to be said.

Yeah - like helium and coming across like a juvenile voice who has inhaled it.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 3/25/2009 2:20:53 PM >

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RE: The Power or " Right" - 3/25/2009 4:06:31 PM   
Aynne88


Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
Status: offline 		thanks tazzy. I can relate. I had a hell week too and believe me I was agreeing with you, thanks for that.

I saw your thread in the Gorean section, I hope your surgery goes well, and you have a fast recovery.  


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

hell Aynne

i did misread you.  its a bitch of a day, my knee aches, workmans comp is jerking me around.. yadda yadda yadda... in general im having a bad life day... lol

could be why Master is laying low..lol


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RE: The Power or " Right" - 3/25/2009 6:12:36 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline 		Ouch!  Wow!  How did this turn into a no-limits discussion?
 
I am comfortable with my reality; I have limits. The dominants in my life want me to have limits.  Overall, that works out quite well for us! 
But I can understand the appeal of giving/taking at that level.  I can relate to the concept but at the same time I know that it is not possible for me. 
 
Maybe those who have a strong reaction to ‘no limits’ are so discomfited by the idea they believe everyone would/should feel the same.  
 
It is easy to believe someone is happy if they live their lives similar to the way we live.  It’s a bit tougher sometimes to accept someone can be blissful if they are, …….well, ya know…..different! 

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RE: The Power or " Right" - 3/25/2009 6:14:51 PM   
chicagoswitch


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Joined: 6/11/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: chamberqueen

Serving someone often means having your boundaries pushed which can be quite uncomfortable.  Personally, I was surprised at the depth of some of the emotions that can come with that.  We carry baggage from our past with us and what might be perfectly acceptable to one sub can be simply overwhelming to another.  Someone new to the lifestyle likely will never guess at some of the internal battles that can go on as you make the decision each time really difficult comes up on whether you would rather go through with the task or chance having to leave the relationship.



How very true.....I could handle most things my last Sir asked of me without trouble.....except one....I cannot bring myself to walk around a room naked.  For most, this would be the least of their issues.

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RE: The Power or " Right" - 3/27/2009 6:40:33 AM   
CelticPrince


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fantasien

I think in any situation, be that there is clear and abiding communication as to what the sub/slave would be willing to do and what their limits are.

I am all for BDSM behavior and lifestyles, But I feel that when another persons' boundaries are not considered and planned for, when another person is not respected, then it should end immediately!


Fantasien,

But that is the point, the newbe should know the difference tween a relationship with a Master as opposed to a Sir. So many do not understand.

CP

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RE: The Power or " Right" - 3/27/2009 7:08:48 AM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

You are 100% incorrect.  Dig you entirely, but you are truly out of your mind.  There is no such thing as slavery. It is fictional it doesn't exist, it is a non subject, it is the null set, invalid, doesn't compute, never never land, bubkiss, entirely bogus.

If you would discount one polar extreme of the continuum to impossibility because of the odds against finding matching values/desires, then you may as well ditch the entire D/s construct.

In poker, the odds of getting a royal flush are the same as getting a 3 & 8 of clubs a jack of diamonds and a 4 of spades. Just because the former has seemingly 'magical' value attached to it (when the latter doesn't) does not make it any less possible.

quote:


There are women out there that get their twats a tweakin' at the thought of being loaned out...Whoopdeefuckin'doo!  They dig it.  if their partner digs it then they can discuss how subly they are.  Hell to the fuck no! It is merely like minds connecting. There are subs out here that get all a juicy just thinking about being brutalized or completely humiliated, guzzling piss or diving head first into a long stay at the kennel.  If they meet the right partner that can make these things become reality they can stand atop sub mountain and plant down the flag of royal subness. There are the subs like yourself that are of the type that are willing to allow another to be 100% in charge. they allow their partner to be in charge of every decision even if it means personal peril.  So you found your match.....Again Whoopidyfuckingdooo!!!!  The pot found it's lid nothing more nothing less.  You are not more subbier than the next just because you don't possess the ability to make sound decisions.


Attempting to make someone out to be mentally unsound because they willingly decide to relinquish all control to a capable someone else is itself logically unsound.

There is a difference between "subbier" and "truer". Since the degree to which one relinquishes control of their lives in a range, someone can be "subbier" than another...in the same way that one person's skin can be darker or lighter than the next and it wouldn't mean they were any more "black" or "white".

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 3/27/2009 7:20:28 AM >

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RE: The Power or " Right" - 3/27/2009 7:12:18 AM   
NihilusZero


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

Fantasien,

But that is the point, the newbe should know the difference tween a relationship with a Master as opposed to a Sir. So many do not understand.

CP

That's just an argument about popular lifestyle semantics. A person can discover their dominance or submissiveness without ever being exposed to the terminologies that are commonly used in WIITWD.

So, quite the contrary...a newbie shouldn't know the difference between a relationship with a Master as opposed to a Sir. I certainly wouldn't expect that of someone just wetting their feet with the 'lifestyle'.

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 3/27/2009 7:15:36 AM >

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RE: The Power or " Right" - 3/27/2009 7:13:32 AM   
NihilusZero


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RE: The Power or " Right" - 3/27/2009 7:28:32 AM   
NihilusZero


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quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

Maybe those who have a strong reaction to ‘no limits’ are so discomfited by the idea they believe everyone would/should feel the same.


Those with strong reactions to no-limit sub/slaves are normally ill-equipped to dissociate independent competent thought from willful desired action. To many, social/personal independence is the last bastion for what is presumed to be common sense. Because of that, many automatically write off those who would forfeit it into the mentally challenged box, regardless of how lucidly the decision was made.

Ironically, the writing of the TPE slaves I've seen on the boards is normally more coherent and logical than that of the average poster.

Could this mean that being a no-limit slave doesn't directly lead to brain atrophy?

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 3/27/2009 7:30:27 AM >

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I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
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RE: The Power or " Right" - 3/27/2009 10:14:42 AM   
DavanKael


Posts: 3072
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Status: offline 		Welcome back, NZ!!!  < hugs > 
Just took a break from the mind-numbing work that is month-end reports and perused a bit on this thread. 
I gave the most attention to the posts on this page from Mercnbeth and Domiguy.  They're both really interesting posts with valid points in each.  I think you each have a great history of saying wise things on the boards. 
I don't know much of your life experience, Domiguy, as I haven't read specific tales from you yet.  I think that you're correct that most people who have enter 'no limits' relationships have pretty pervasive negative issues into which the dynamic feeds. 
That having been said, Mercnbeth, though I've not met them in person, seem a couple that functions in synergy.  One really can't argue with the success of that or the palpability here.  Is that rare: a couple functioning synergistically on a consistent basis: yeah.  Is it more rare still in a 'no limits' situation: can't say for sure but probably.  Can't argue with what is, though.  Merc or beth, please correct me if I am wrong on this recollection: beth, I think you mentioned itis your naturally inclination to submit, across the board.  If that is the case and that is who beth is, for whatever reasons, then having the good fortune to meet up with Merc, someone who cherishes and protects her is rather awesome.  Someone espousing the 'be all, end all' status of autonomy isn't going to 'get it' but noteveryone wants the same things and arelationship that is joyous and non-abusive is pretty unarguably successful, imo. 
Things are rarely black or white and far more often exist on a continuum.  I think that a level of 'no limits' health is possible, not probable in most instances, but possible under the right conditions with the right folks. 
  Davan

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RE: The Power or " Right" - 3/27/2009 10:16:30 AM   
domiguy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

You are 100% incorrect.  Dig you entirely, but you are truly out of your mind.  There is no such thing as slavery. It is fictional it doesn't exist, it is a non subject, it is the null set, invalid, doesn't compute, never never land, bubkiss, entirely bogus.

If you would discount one polar extreme of the continuum to impossibility because of the odds against finding matching values/desires, then you may as well ditch the entire D/s construct.

In poker, the odds of getting a royal flush are the same as getting a 3 & 8 of clubs a jack of diamonds and a 4 of spades. Just because the former has seemingly 'magical' value attached to it (when the latter doesn't) does not make it any less possible.

quote:


You are not more subbier than the next just because you don't possess the ability to make sound decisions.


Attempting to make someone out to be mentally unsound because they willingly decide to relinquish all control to a capable someone else is itself logically unsound.

There is a difference between "subbier" and "truer". Since the degree to which one relinquishes control of their lives in a range, someone can be "subbier" than another...in the same way that one person's skin can be darker or lighter than the next and it wouldn't mean they were any more "black" or "white".


Let's try and tackle this problem.  Then let's ditch the entire D/s construct.  It is foundation lies pretty much entirely on fiction and romance.  You really can't understand that?

Let me use your example.  We are playing poker, I deal you a 3 & 8 of clubs a jack of diamonds and a 4 of spades.  You say, "Wow, the odds of me getting these five cards is exactly the same as getting a royal flush." 

Then you say, "I am going to kidnap you and lock you in my cellar."  I say, "No, I don't want you to do that."  You hold a gun to my head and proceed to lock me in your cellar."  You forget that there is a phone in your cellar and  I call the cops. They arrive and take you off to jail. 

All the time that you are in the back of the cop car being toted off to the pokey you are continually screaming, "But I am holding the 3 & 8 of clubs a jack of diamonds and a 4 of spades." The cops tell you to shut the fuck up and that nobody gives a shit about some stupid card game that you might have been playing. 

Only in the game of poker does a royal flush mean anything....Only in the "game" of bdsm does slavery have any meaning whatsoever.

Go to the store and try to buy groceries with a straight flush.  Go to the judge and try to explain the logistics of slavery or or the legality of holding someone against their will.


quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero
Attempting to make someone out to be mentally unsound because they willingly decide to relinquish all control to a capable someone else is itself logically unsound.


Why?  What if it can be proven that people that are willing to give up control do have some fairly serious mental issues?

There is a correlation between people who have multiple tatoos and piercings and of them suffering some rather stressful life experiences. Predominately what they endured seems to focus on  abuse or the death or loss of a loved one at a young age. It is not unsound to research this nor is it unsound to understand that there is a correlation. In fact it is rather naive to suggest that no such correlation exists at all.

I would venture to guess that there is a similar trait among people that label themselves as being "no-limit." You see it demonstrated out here continually. Abuse, rape, neglect, incest and on down the list.  Sure there are some that have never endured any of this shit.  But I would guess to venture that those folks are not in the majority...Fuck, some people will smoke their whole lives and never run into cancer.  Therefore, by your logic, smoking is not a determining factor in whether one might contract lung cancer or any other ailment.  Also, why would you ever assume that these types have the necessary skills to actually find or recognize someone that is "capable?"

I dig what this thang is about...I just seem to put a more realistic face on it.

< Message edited by domiguy -- 3/27/2009 10:23:25 AM >

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RE: The Power or " Right" - 3/27/2009 10:36:58 AM   
InTonguesslave


Posts: 342
Joined: 2/6/2009
Status: offline 		Ironically, the writing of the TPE slaves I've seen on the boards is normally more coherent and logical than that of the average poster.

to be able to hand youreself over 'intoto' to someone you trust requires a great deal of inner strength and personal knowledge.   i believe that you have to have a foundation of inner resource and self awareness to walk into a TPE relationship - far from being a weak fruit loop, you need to be strong willed and focused.

for a D type to be described as 'creepy' when he has the faculty to engage a TPE submissive or slave, gain their trust and absolute submission is a total contradiciton of the D type involved.

in my opinion a D type capable of this has to be responsible, careful, intelligent, respectful and always in touch with the issues of trust.  he would not keep his TPE slave for very long if any of these things came under serious scrutiny.

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RE: The Power or " Right" - 3/27/2009 10:42:22 AM   
susie


Posts: 1699
Joined: 11/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fantasien

I think in any situation, be that there is clear and abiding communication as to what the sub/slave would be willing to do and what their limits are.

I am all for BDSM behavior and lifestyles, But I feel that when another persons' boundaries are not considered and planned for, when another person is not respected, then it should end immediately!


Fantasien,

But that is the point, the newbe should know the difference tween a relationship with a Master as opposed to a Sir. So many do not understand.

CP


So I have a Master, does that automatically make me a slave?

Nope. He choses to have me call him Master as he hates the title Sir. I am submissive to him. Who cares if some would think that I am a slave to him or a submissive. All that matters is that he is the dominant partner in our relationship.

As to the no limits argument, as has been said before a submissive who claims to be no limits is actually limited only by the limits of the dominant partner in the relationship. Any submissive with half a brain ensures compatability with their dominant before entering a relationship.

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Profile   Post #: 177
RE: The Power or " Right" - 3/27/2009 11:05:22 AM   
CelticPrince


Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: susie

quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fantasien

I think in any situation, be that there is clear and abiding communication as to what the sub/slave would be willing to do and what their limits are.

I am all for BDSM behavior and lifestyles, But I feel that when another persons' boundaries are not considered and planned for, when another person is not respected, then it should end immediately!


Fantasien,

But that is the point, the newbe should know the difference tween a relationship with a Master as opposed to a Sir. So many do not understand.

CP


So I have a Master, does that automatically make me a slave?

Nope. He choses to have me call him Master as he hates the title Sir. I am submissive to him. Who cares if some would think that I am a slave to him or a submissive. All that matters is that he is the dominant partner in our relationship.

As to the no limits argument, as has been said before a submissive who claims to be no limits is actually limited only by the limits of the dominant partner in the relationship. Any submissive with half a brain ensures compatability with their dominant before entering a relationship.


susie,

There are variations on every theme, perhaps you fall outside the 3rd Standard Diviation!

CP

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Profile   Post #: 178
RE: The Power or " Right" - 3/27/2009 11:09:24 AM   
Jeptha


Posts: 780
Joined: 9/18/2008
From: Portland, Oregon
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama
Excuse me while I get my Hazmat suit to continue this conversation...

...It's also that polyamory and swinger crap are NOT everyone's cup of tea.

ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama

... A few of the bottoms I knew when I was much younger in Seattle were dying horribly after the fun and games were over. By the time they had full-blown AIDS, it was a little too late for anyone to say "Ooops".

If you don't like the ugliness of the facts--too bad. My own limits and tastes are shaped by life experience. There are some things that I *never* need to see again, much less be responsible for. If you enjoy this particular form of degradation--bully for you. I'd prefer to have nothing to do with any slave who has been used in this fashion, or any dominant who regards it as "fun". For the record, I also prefer to avoid people who spend a lot of time frolicking with Ebola monkeys or breathing deeply in tuberculosis wards. I'm weird that way.

There's a few things that I find curious about these posts; one is that it seems kind of low on compassion for its subject, two is it's lack of grounding in reality in that it seems to lump every behavior that isn't strict monogamy into the trash bin.
Yes; promiscuous behavior is risky.
I've known people who have died as a consequence, also.
Yet this particular "kink" has no corner on that market.
Go to any "meat market" bar in my city and you will see people are still hooking up right and left.
So, while safety consciousness is up somewhat, the behavior has not changed much. And that's because it is human behavior. Not necessarily restricted to D/s.
If anyone's a whore, we're all whores.

Another point; if you sleep with two people in one night, or two people in six months, you've still slept with two people.
Presumably that isn't such outlandishly whorish behavior that you need to don your hazmat suit. If it is, you needn't take it off, as I think that's about within the normal range of human behavior. Like that of your friends and neighbors. Maybe it even describes you.
Perhaps you can get leopard print hazmat pajamas and an oxygen breather for if you ever have to venture out of the house.

_____________________________

...YOU KNOW HOW I LIKE MY PORK CHOPS!
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"....(somewhere) therein lies the truthiness..."
~*~*~*~*
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Profile   Post #: 179
RE: The Power or " Right" - 3/27/2009 11:18:56 AM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Let's try and tackle this problem.  Then let's ditch the entire D/s construct.  It is foundation lies pretty much entirely on fiction and romance.  You really can't understand that?


The entirety of all relationships qualifies for this also. Perhaps to you there are no happy marriages of longer than 20 years either.

You are, it seems, fixated (in a jaded sort of way, which is an odd comment coming from me...) on the concept of idealistic 'love' because of how silly/imaginary it is without having taken into consideration of what it is anthropologically and psychologically.

All it takes is a matching set of top-tier desires/needs/wants and a willing commitment to make a relationship work, no matter what the details are within it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Go to the judge and try to explain the logistics of slavery or or the legality of holding someone against their will.


So all you've really been arguing is the age-old linguistic/epistemological question of whether willing slavery can exist?



quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Why?  What if it can be proven that people that are willing to give up control do have some fairly serious mental issues?

Then you'd be turning the entirety of the psychological sciences upside down.

You let me drive your car home when you are drunk one night. You've relinquished control to me. Mental issue? No? Then how much more till it is? What's the threshold for determining mental competence?

It can't be "proven".

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

There is a correlation between people who have multiple tattoos and piercings and of them suffering some rather stressful life experiences. Predominately what they endured seems to focus on  abuse or the death or loss of a loved one at a young age. It is not unsound to research this nor is it unsound to understand that there is a correlation. In fact it is rather naive to suggest that no such correlation exists at all.


If you were seriously doing research, you would be unsound coming to any studied populace with a mere 'correlation' to support a misguided hypothesis.

Or were you trying to say tattoos are evidence of mental problems?

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

I would venture to guess that there is a similar trait among people that label themselves as being "no-limit." You see it demonstrated out here continually. Abuse, rape, neglect, incest and on down the list. Sure there are some that have never endured any of this shit.  But I would guess to venture that those folks are not in the majority...


But you would knee-jerk what category you'd put them in straight away, wouldn't you? Do you even have alternate means by which to assess whether their decisions are sound or not? Do you even have a base idea of what constitutes a "sound" decision (as if every action we take is not subject to some form of indirect coercion or alternate stimulus...)?

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Fuck, some people will smoke their whole lives and never run into cancer.  Therefore, by your logic, smoking is not a determining factor in whether one might contract lung cancer or any other ailment.


You're compariing reverse examples (nevermind totally different ones....biological versus psychological...but I'll let that go for the sake of the discussion here):

In your smoking example, you've determined the catalyst (smoking) and then determined to what percentage it leads to the result (cancer).

Your logic works backwards with D/s. You've isolated the result (chossing a no-limits lifestyle) and are then trying to attach catalysts afterwards (Abuse, rape, neglect, incest).

So a person who has not been raped, abused (an odd choice of example for a D/s forum, but...) neglected or the been the victim of incest who chooses no-limits...they're okay? And no one who has been exposed to such trauma and still decides for a no-limits relationship could be of sound mind?

That's the problem...you're taking it a step further and trying to assign mental capacity after presumed causality. Are people who smoke knowing it can lead to cancer also exhibiting mental problems?

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Also, why would you ever assume that these types have the necessary skills to actually find or recognize someone that is "capable?"


You have no solid underpininng for you myopic assessment of "these types". It's really just a thinly veiled for of prejudice. Let's try again...why are they not capable? Because they've been raped? Because they've been raped and chosen no-limits? Or just because they've chosen no-limits and you can't separate that from intellectual competence?

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

I dig what this thang is about...I just seem to put a more realistic face on it.

I don't think so...at least not from the point of view you've been expressing here. At the foundation, it seems a misunderstanding of the difference between kink and lifestyle first, and then an emotionally triggered misimplementation of psychological analysis.

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 3/27/2009 11:21:22 AM >

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

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Profile   Post #: 180
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