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The Enforcer - 3/22/2009 11:10:03 PM   
pinnipedster


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One concept I've had as a component of a D/s relationship is the role of the Dominant as enforcing goals and standards on the submissive -- both the Dominant's own goals, and perhaps some of those of the sub.

For example: I know many have a problem with the notion of forced feminization.  As a sometimes-crossdresser, it is certainly true that no one has to use force to get me to dress up.  On the other hand, I admit that I don't always do so as often or as well as I would like, out of a combination of circumstances, laziness, and fear. 

Something that would appeal to me would be to have a Dominant woman who required me to crossdress on certain occasions, and to maintain proper standards of appearance and behavior when doing so.  She would push me to overcome some of my current limitations and apprehension about doing so.   This is not to say that she could not derive some benefit herself form it -- for instance, part of the process might be a requirement that when in femme mode, I will be doing far more than my share of the housework, and perhaps being held to a higher quality standard in that area.  She might also require me to maintain certain attitudes that don't come entirely naturally to me.

Now, I realize that to many this would sound like topping from the bottom.  Again I would say that I would expect it to be only one component of the over-all D/s realtionship -- frankly, I would be wary of a relationship that seemed to be based only around my own needs, wonderful though it might seem in the short term. :)  It would make me feel rather insecure.  On the other hand, I have to admit that I would not stay in a D/s relationship where none of my own needs or fantasies were ever addressed.  The hope is to find someone where our respective needs and desires overlap enough to keep us both happy, but one doubts a perfect fit is likely to be found -- I would expect each of us would be catering to the other to some extent (and hopefully coming to enjoy it). 

Obviously, the situation could apply to areas far removed from such things as feminization.  I could imagine a Dominant enforcing a more healthy diet and exercise regieme on the sub, at the sub's request -- it's hardly uncommon for people to find it all too easy to skip the workout or cheat on the diet.  Some Dominants, of course, might instigate such a program themselves, but in many cases I can imagine a sub (female subs in particular) wanting to lose weight even though their Dominant may be perfectly satisfied with the sub's body as it is. 

I'm just curious how others, Dominant Women in particular, react to this kind of a suggestion.  I would expect some would frown upon it, as it is a case of catering to the needs/wants of the sub rather than the other way around.  On the other hand, I've found many Dominants seem to be more interested in the power dynamic itself than what it is used for, so they might well find ways to use that kind of situation to their liking; or they might at least be willing to accept it as part of their role in exchange for the sevice and loyalty they recieve.

Thoughts? 

< Message edited by pinnipedster -- 3/22/2009 11:11:16 PM >
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RE: The Enforcer - 3/22/2009 11:22:47 PM   
YoursMistress


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I don't believe that you expressing your wants and desires, and the incorporation of the satisfaction of those into your goals and play with your Domme constitutes topping from the bottom, or even a dreaded "do me" attitude.  I believe that this should be a part of the dommunication ( I misspelled that but liked it better misspelled)  as you enter and define your relationship with her. 

yours


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As a rule, I don't like to make general statements.

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RE: The Enforcer - 3/23/2009 2:48:39 AM   
MaamJay


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A healthy relationship is one in which both parties are finding a majority of their needs met. So you are not TFTB in the way you have expressed yourself pinnipedster. I would call this good communication.

As far as holding a sub to certain standards ... oh yes! Whatever the task I set, I expect it to be done and I will check that it is done to My standards once the sub has been adequately trained as to what those standards are. That goes with the territory in My book.

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

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RE: The Enforcer - 3/23/2009 4:51:18 AM   
chamberqueen


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One of my most pleasant memories as a Domme was going online with a sub, each from our own home, and me helping him to pick out his first pair of panties.  This was something that he wanted.  My joy was in the teaching.  We both benefited.  I continued to work with him for another week or so, giving exercises to make him feel more feminine.  He needed someone to get him started along the path.

Most Dom/mes are very interested in helping their subs to better themselves.  In turn, it brings a form of glory to the Dom/me.  Feeling like you have made a difference in the life of another is a very heady sensation.  There is nothing at all wrong with working together on goals even if the sub suggests it.  Of course, the Domme would always have the right to refuse.

I always had my sub's best interests in mind, and knew that if they were not fulfilled through their service to me that there would be no reason for them to keep coming back to me.  There is nothing wrong with saying, "I would like to do .... more often but I know that I will need a little push.  Would you please work with me on this?".  That is true whether the wish is for cross dressing, more healthy living, wanting to try out a new toy, or any other area.  It is only topping from the bottom if you insist instead of ask, or act poorly in the hopes that they will change their mind.


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RE: The Enforcer - 3/23/2009 5:54:57 AM   
CatdeMedici


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quote:

Something that would appeal to me would be to have a Dominant woman who required me to crossdress on certain occasions, and to maintain proper standards of appearance and behavior when doing so.  She would push me to overcome some of my current limitations and apprehension about doing so. 


In this context, there is no "enforcement" that happens, you are in a trusting mode, you know She gets and accepts you, so you are more than happy to comply-She is simply catering to your defined needs. What pushing happens? Its simply a happy acceptance to mutual benefit.
 
People seem to miss the fact that if you WANT to be forced, there is no forcing, for the mere act of want removes barriers and restrictions--you just want it to be someone else's idea so you can say, "oop I am being "forced" to do this, so its ok"--it's a mind game.  Because I guarantee, if you didn't really WANT, you'd be out the door in a NY second.
 
 
 
 

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RE: The Enforcer - 3/23/2009 7:27:21 AM   
GoodgirlFind


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^^^ now THAT is funny! C'mon dude it's obvious you are unclear on the concepts of submission. Try speaking for yourself, when I subbed as a sub, I did things I really didn't WANT and that was what I was most proud of. As subs, we don't submit to our own will, we submit to the other person's will. Submission isn't about doing what we want, submission is about giving over power to the dom, [-yes-] even in situations we don't want. God forbid a sub has to do something she doesn't want to do. God forbid we actually sacrifice.


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RE: The Enforcer - 3/23/2009 3:28:49 PM   
Lockit


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GoodgirlFind, I don't think you understood what Cat was saying.  I do believe she understands submission very well... as a matter of fact... dominance too. lol

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RE: The Enforcer - 3/23/2009 3:29:42 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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I think she was replying to Pinnipedster!

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RE: The Enforcer - 3/23/2009 3:33:11 PM   
Lockit


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LOL... could be... if so... I still believe what I said about Cat... just shouldn't have said the rest!

I need a nap...

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RE: The Enforcer - 3/23/2009 3:36:06 PM   
Lockit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GoodgirlFind

^^^ now THAT is funny! C'mon dude it's obvious you are unclear on the concepts of submission. Try speaking for yourself, when I subbed as a sub, I did things I really didn't WANT and that was what I was most proud of. As subs, we don't submit to our own will, we submit to the other person's will. Submission isn't about doing what we want, submission is about giving over power to the dom, [-yes-] even in situations we don't want. God forbid a sub has to do something she doesn't want to do. God forbid we actually sacrifice.




I'm sorry if I misunderstood who you were talking to!

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RE: The Enforcer - 3/23/2009 3:42:39 PM   
LovingMistress45


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I think what you are expressing is the need for good solid communication before entering a relationship. There are many Dommes that enjoy a male CD or femme.  Personally it is not my thing. I am with Cat if you (general you) desire something it is not forced.  But I can understand the desire to be ordered to do something even if it is something you actually want. 

It is important to find someone that has compatible desires with your needs. 

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RE: The Enforcer - 3/23/2009 5:01:11 PM   
ShaktiSama


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pinnipedster

I'm just curious how others, Dominant Women in particular, react to this kind of a suggestion. 
Thoughts? 


I think the dividing line on this issue is the difference between people who enjoy domination as a fantasy of victimizing others and those who enjoy domination as a fantasy of redeeming others.  Both fantasies are just that, of course--fantasies!--but your Redemption Domme is going to get some kind of satisfaction out of controlling her partner in a way that she imagines is empowering, healing, or positive--that she is "improving" and "molding" her submissive with her control.  By contrast, your Victimizing Domme gets most of her pleasure from imagining that she is making her partner suffer, that she is threatening real harm and destruction, that she is degrading and humiliating and putting him in his place--etc..

I'm not saying that either one of these stereotypes will fit any real person perfectly in real life, of course.  Most of us have got some of Column A and some of Column B going on.  I find that if you're polarized in one direction or the other, though, it tends to affect the kind of relationships you seek out and how you want to interact with your submissives.  Redemption Dommes tend to get into long-term relationships and regard their submissives as a long-term investment, so helping their submissives to achieve personal goals and improve their lot in various ways is appealing--not to mention wise.  It's much easier to be a happy, fulfilled person if the people around you are also happy and fulfilled.  And it's much easier to live with a person in your household who has a good job, a good credit rating, and good health.     Women who want to victimize their partners, on the other hand, tend to seek more disposable relationships and have no real need or desire to "build up" their submissives--if anything, that could be a turn-off.  The fantasy is that she is harming, not helping.


< Message edited by ShaktiSama -- 3/23/2009 5:03:48 PM >


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RE: The Enforcer - 3/23/2009 7:38:46 PM   
SlaveBlutarsky


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For me, I'd like any domme I'd be with to play a similar role. Kind of a loving drill sargent to keep me on the right track on certain things I have set out for myself and tend to easily get off track on. As previously stated, as long as it's from a loving/caring place and communicated well, why not?

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RE: The Enforcer - 3/23/2009 8:39:23 PM   
chezzy71


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sort of a fine line between forced,desire,needs and wants isn't it??i don't look at my submission as being forced to do anything...it is who i am and accept that part of me as willingly as i accpet Mistress's rules and pay attention to her needs and desires.i do not believe forced is even in the equation.

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RE: The Enforcer - 3/24/2009 4:25:52 AM   
beeble


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quote:

GoodgirlFind wrote:  ^^^ now THAT is funny!
Lockit wrote: I'm sorry if I misunderstood who you were talking to!

It would be helpful if people made it explicit who they were replying to.  You never know if somebody else is going to post before you so you can't guarantee that your post will appear immediately below the one you're replying to.

And if GoodgirlFind was addressing pinnipedster, she appears to have missed his point.  He didn't say that he wanted all of his submission to be of this sort: he was just asking if Dommes are open to it being a part of their relationship with their subs.

beeble.


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RE: The Enforcer - 3/24/2009 7:31:41 AM   
GoodgirlFind


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^^Oye^^^, yes, refer back to the post, my response was aimed at you for what you said about "Because I guarantee, if you didn't really WANT, you'd be out the door in a NY second."

Making blanket statements that discount the subs who continue to surrender under circumstances they really don't WANT is pretty narrow minded.

Any person who writes subs don't do things which they vehemently oppose is a misinformed ignorant ass.


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RE: The Enforcer - 3/24/2009 8:33:08 AM   
beeble


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quote:

GoodgirlFind wrote:  ^^Oye^^^, yes, refer back to the post, my response was aimed at you for what you said about "Because I guarantee, if you didn't really WANT, you'd be out the door in a NY second."

I wrote no such thing.  In fact, I hadn't written anything in this thread when you made the post we're discussing.  So you certainly weren't aiming your response at me!

Referring back to your post doesn't help.  This whole discussion arose because nobody could tell who you were addressing those remarks to.  Now, it seems that even you don't know.

Please, if you want people to follow what you're saying, it's essential that you're explicit about who you're addressing your remarks to.  If you don't want to quote the text, at least give the username of the person you're talking about -- but even that can be vague if they've written more than one post.

beeble.


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RE: The Enforcer - 3/24/2009 8:34:34 AM   
YoungLust


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GoodgirlFind

Any person who writes subs don't do things which they vehemently oppose is a misinformed ignorant ass.


I'm probably stepping outside of the bounds of the consensus D/s opinion when I say I don't think anyone should do anything they VEHEMENTLY oppose. Maybe you're using hyperbole to try and talk down to the person you were referring to even more... not sure. But, if you vehemently oppose something, to perform such an action would most likely either compromise your morals or your vision of yourself. Just sounds unhealthy to me.



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RE: The Enforcer - 3/24/2009 8:49:03 AM   
GoodgirlFind


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Whether my views are that of a very narrow minority and don't really fly in the face of the norm around here, your still wrong if you assume that everyone is submitting on the same levels. Some of us do like to climb those sacrificial hurdles and submit under extreme circumstances even if you think it's unhealthy or not. Sorry for the inconvenient truth.


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RE: The Enforcer - 3/24/2009 9:03:46 AM   
YoungLust


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GoodgirlFind

Whether my views are that of a very narrow minority and don't really fly in the face of the norm around here, your still wrong if you assume that everyone is submitting on the same levels. Some of us do like to climb those sacrificial hurdles and submit under extreme circumstances even if you think it's unhealthy or not. Sorry for the inconvenient truth.


Perhaps you should brush up on your reading comprehension. I never stated that there weren't different degrees of submission and expressed that I felt my opinion was in the minority. Either way, if you're doing things you vehemently oppose to "climb sacrificial hurdles" I would say you have a poor sense of self-identification and probably put who you are as a "submissive" before who you are as a person.

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