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RE: Gaza - the facts emerge - 3/23/2009 3:55:36 PM   
KaineD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Semantics. You call it guerilla warfare I call it hiding behind civilians. My answer is at least in English.


If you don't understand what guerilla warfare is, that's not my problem.

Back here in the real world, the IDF were caught on video dragging a kid door to door, using him as a human shield.  In another case, the link for it is on page 1, the IDF used an 11 year old boy to walk in front of soldiers being fired on.  THAT is using human shields.

Can you explain that to me?

quote:

I saw video of medical personel in a combat zone. I saw nothing indicative that they were intentional targets. The fact that they weren't killed seems telling considering they were out in the open when the shooting started. Beyond that I saw claims without presented evidence.


Are you sure you watched the video?  One of them got hit in the leg, as they were trying to carry a wounded person.

< Message edited by KaineD -- 3/23/2009 4:02:09 PM >

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Gaza - the facts emerge - 3/23/2009 4:00:05 PM   
KaineD


Posts: 497
Joined: 2/14/2006
Status: offline 		And from one of the links you posted...

Fred Abrahams, a senior researcher at Human Rights Watch, who has studied both the Kosovo and Lebanon conflicts, said he was concerned that Israel was not paying enough attention to international legal requirements for “distinction and proportionality — first, to distinguish between combatants and civilians, and second, whether an attack will have a disproportionate effect on the civilians in the area.”

“A violation by Hamas shooting from a mosque or school doesn’t give the Israeli Army carte blanche to return fire in the name of force protection with everything and anything it has,” he added.

< Message edited by KaineD -- 3/23/2009 4:01:21 PM >

(in reply to KaineD)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Gaza - the facts emerge - 3/23/2009 4:05:46 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KaineD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Semantics. You call it guerilla warfare I call it hiding behind civilians. My answer is at least in English.


If you don't understand what guerilla warfare is, that's not my problem.

I read Spanish just fine. Guerilla means small war. Hamas isn't fighting a war they are terrorists hiding among civilians and attacking civilians.
quote:

quote:

I saw video of medical personel in a combat zone. I saw nothing indicative that they were intentional targets. The fact that they weren't killed seems telling considering they were out in the open when the shooting started. Beyond that I saw claims without presented evidence.


Are you sure you watched the video?  One of them got hit in the leg, as they were trying to carry a wounded person.

Being hit in the leg means it was an accident. Trained soldiers don't aim that low nor do they miss as much as what we saw in that video. I guarantee that the video failed to show the Hamas troops between the medics and the IDF. The medics were not under fire since they were not hit multiple times each which is what happens if people with automatic or semiautomatic rifles are shooting at you when you have no cover.

(in reply to KaineD)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Gaza - the facts emerge - 3/23/2009 4:10:02 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KaineD

That comparison doesn't even make sense.

Rest assured I was never under the impression that you would think it did.
 
K.
 
 

(in reply to KaineD)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Gaza - the facts emerge - 3/23/2009 4:12:25 PM   
UBsincere


Posts: 15
Joined: 7/7/2006
Status: offline 		Kained:

Do me a favor, see if you can solve the problems in Ireland where you reside, then when you get it all together, go make peace in the Middleeast? Then go to North Korea and "do your magic", then onto Africa.

If you really believe and try hard enough, I am sure you can do it?

Otherwise it's just so much retoric and personal feelings, likes and dislikes.




(in reply to KaineD)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Gaza - the facts emerge - 3/23/2009 4:16:44 PM   
piratecommander


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quote:

ORIGINAL: UBsincere

What did the boy win?

He lived to "ride again" on the jeep another day I hope.

If it wasn't for the "Texas T, AKA Black Gold" would anyone really care about the Mideast and it's problems? 



Without FUEL this debate would not exist in the USA. (tongue firmly planted in cheek)

Pirate

(in reply to UBsincere)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Gaza - the facts emerge - 3/23/2009 4:23:32 PM   
piratecommander


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

The medics were not under fire since they were not hit multiple times each which is what happens if people with automatic or semiautomatic rifles are shooting at you when you have no cover.



So are saying the Israeli marksperson/s are just ... really bad shots ... ?

Pirate

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Gaza - the facts emerge - 3/23/2009 4:29:35 PM   
piratecommander


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

The medics were not under fire since they were not hit multiple times each which is what happens if people with automatic or semiautomatic rifles are shooting at you when you have no cover.



Or that the Israeli military do NOT do sniper training?

Pirate

(in reply to piratecommander)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Gaza - the facts emerge - 3/23/2009 4:33:13 PM   
piratecommander


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

The medics were not under fire since they were not hit multiple times each which is what happens if people with automatic or semiautomatic rifles are shooting at you when you have no cover.



Or that medics only get shot at with automatic or semi automatic weapons?

Pirate

(in reply to piratecommander)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Gaza - the facts emerge - 3/23/2009 4:36:46 PM   
piratecommander


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

The medics were not under fire since they were not hit multiple times each which is what happens if people with automatic or semiautomatic rifles are shooting at you when you have no cover.



Define "under fire" ? I struggle to understand how anyone NOT "under fire" can be bullet wounded.

Pirate

(in reply to piratecommander)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Gaza - the facts emerge - 3/23/2009 4:43:33 PM   
KaineD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: UBsincere

Kained:

Do me a favor, see if you can solve the problems in Ireland where you reside, then when you get it all together, go make peace in the Middleeast? Then go to North Korea and "do your magic", then onto Africa.

If you really believe and try hard enough, I am sure you can do it?

Otherwise it's just so much retoric and personal feelings, likes and dislikes.


Ireland's doing good, thanks.

(in reply to UBsincere)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Gaza - the facts emerge - 3/23/2009 4:44:52 PM   
KaineD


Posts: 497
Joined: 2/14/2006
Status: offline 		DomKen, you're continually ignoring the issue of Israeli forces using human shields.

< Message edited by KaineD -- 3/23/2009 4:54:30 PM >

(in reply to piratecommander)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Gaza - the facts emerge - 3/23/2009 4:47:12 PM   
piratecommander


Posts: 895
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

shooting at you when you have no cover.



Medics need cover? In who's book? I'm going to take a look in my bathroom mirror and reflect.

Pirate

(in reply to piratecommander)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Gaza - the facts emerge - 3/23/2009 5:01:18 PM   
MadAxeman


Posts: 4171
Joined: 8/28/2008
From: UK
Status: offline 		Israeli soldiers have already admitted all this.
One day denying this might be akin to denying the holocaust.


_____________________________

Hitman for the Subby Mafia

(in reply to piratecommander)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Gaza - the facts emerge - 3/23/2009 5:02:59 PM   
piratecommander


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadAxeman

Israeli soldiers have already admitted all this.
One day denying this might be akin to denying the holocaust.



It might just be ...

Pirate

(in reply to MadAxeman)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Gaza - the facts emerge - 3/23/2009 5:12:41 PM   
piratecommander


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadAxeman


One day denying this might be akin to denying the holocaust.



Axe, I had half expected this to be a "rampant" thread ......... until you said that. (edited to express admiration of one of the truly honest people on this messaging system and ...... ) "One day" is today.

Pirate

< Message edited by piratecommander -- 3/23/2009 5:17:38 PM >

(in reply to MadAxeman)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Gaza - the facts emerge - 3/23/2009 5:35:52 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: UBsincere

If the boy, tied to the jeep, keeps it from being hit by terrorist fire, seems to me everybody wins?



Probably the most scornful comment I have read for a while.

(in reply to UBsincere)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Gaza - the facts emerge - 3/23/2009 8:22:32 PM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: piratecommander

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

shooting at you when you have no cover.



Medics need cover? In who's book? I'm going to take a look in my bathroom mirror and reflect.

Pirate


I am telling you that despite your attempt at flooding the fact remains when well trained soldiers, as the IDF inarguably is, shoot intentionally at 3 men out in the open with military small arms the result is not one hit in the leg just before getting under cover. The result is all 3 hit multiple times.

(in reply to piratecommander)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Gaza - the facts emerge - 3/23/2009 8:46:42 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

Guardian Video: Gaza - human shields
Guardian Video: Gaza - war crimes
Guardian Video: Gaza - attacks on medics                                                               

To follow up on last month's exchanges concerning the Israeli incursion into Gaza, I thought I'd post these videos.  Taken together with last week's admissions from troops that they did fire on civilians, a picture is emerging that completely supports the critics of the IDF.


I'll admit that I only watched the first 2 minutes of the first video that you posted.

After that much, I saw no reason to waste any more of my time on this utter bullshit.  Unless you would care to point out which of the three videos actually gives any kind of proof, rather than blatant propaganda?

If the other two links are anything like the first one, then the only way someone could believe that this tripe is any kind of "proof" of IDF war crimes is that they are a partisan, or so tied up in their own ideological position and confirmation bias that no amount of information and data could convince them that their position is mistaken, and that simple accusations is tantamout to a conviction.

Firm

PS.  I find myself utterly flummoxed that DomKen and I are on the same side in this topic.  Hell musta frozen over sometime today. 


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to RealityLicks)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Gaza - the facts emerge - 3/23/2009 9:22:56 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I think it is tragic but I also find it ironic that the Palestinians are complaining about human shields when they constantly fired rockets under cover of civilian shields.

I also find it ironic they are complaining about medics and hospitals coming under fire when they light the tail of a rocket with a high explosive warhead and did not give a shit where it landed or who it killed.

If you are going to pull the tail of a tiger then expect to get bit.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 3/23/2009 9:24:08 PM >

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 40
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