Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? (Full Version)

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[Poll]

Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these?


Husky
  9% (4)
American Staffordshire/english Staffordshire terrier
  2% (1)
American pit bull terrier
  17% (7)
Rottweiler
  9% (4)
Doberman Pinscher
  2% (1)
ChowChow
  4% (2)
Great Dane
  7% (3)
Shar Pei
  0% (0)
Mix of any of the above
  17% (7)
none
  29% (12)


Total Votes : 41
(last vote on : 3/28/2009 7:21:32 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )


Message


Mellissande -> Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? (3/23/2009 11:15:20 AM)

Please help me stop Breed Specific Legislation, Use this thread to help spread awareness of the issue and if you like, Debate about the problems with BSL. This petition is mine, I wrote and put it together. If you could please sign it and pass it on to anybody you know who would be willing to sign it as well.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/Stop-The-Holocaust

help stop the needless killing of thousands of family pets. It is just a petition, You don't need to sign up for anything, You will not get any e-mails except for a confirmation that you signed. Maybe you don't have a bully breed now, But if you don't stand up now, Who's going to stand up for you when your dog is being banned?




Mellissande -> RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? (3/23/2009 11:17:00 AM)

I have a wealth of information on this issue and am willing to talk with anyone and debate with those who think that Breed Specific Legislation is the way to go.




Mellissande -> RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? (3/23/2009 11:23:40 AM)

Why in the hell can't I have an off topic discussion that happens to have a poll? that's a very odd rule. And btw why would this be "and other random Stupidity" When this is an extremely Serious issue?!




LaTigresse -> RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? (3/23/2009 11:25:29 AM)

Polls AND other random stupidity.

Fairly self explanatory I think.

And before I sign up for anything I want to see specific facts, not just a bunch of over emotional drama.




Mellissande -> RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? (3/23/2009 11:47:18 AM)

http://www.forpitssake.org/legislation.html

This is taken from Stopbsl.com I have a page full of links to information freely available to anyone with a computer and a search engine. And I am sorry laTigresse if I am overly emotional about the fact that My dog is now banned because Somebody thinks he's going to be mean just because he's a quarter pit bull. My husky mix is in the process of being banned and places all over this country are passing legislation to ban all of the breeds listed in the poll and many more breeds.

BSL has not been effective in decreasing dog bites or increasing public safety. Just a few examples… The Netherlands In June 2008, the Dutch government announced the repeal of their 15-year-long ban on pit bulls due to its failure to ensure public safety. Dog bites continued to rise in spite of the ban. The government is now looking into behavior-based, rather than breed-based, legislation. (Note that the article says the ban lasted 25 years; this is obviously incorrect if the ban passed in 1993.) The United Kingdom The United Kingdom’s Dangerous Dog Act (updated 1997) bans the American Pit Bull Terrier and three other breeds of dogs and their crossbreeds. Yet recent reports from the U.K. indicate that dog bite incidents have increased by 50% percent between the years of 1997 and 2007. They have also had numerous dog bite fatalities. The Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals says that the Dangerous Dog Act has never worked. They believe that banned types of dogs are actually increasing in number despite the ban, and to make matters worse, thugs are intentionally crossbreeding and training vicious mongrels that cannot be obviously classified as one of the banned breeds. The RSPCA notes that the Dangerous Dog Act is a failure because it does not address the ownership and management issues that lead to the creation of dangerous dogs. Aragon, Spain Spain passed the Dangerous Animals Act in 2000, placing restrictions on nine breeds of dogs and dogs possessing “characteristics” of those breeds. A scientific study analyzing dog bites reported to the Aragon health department during a five year period before the Act was passed (1995 to 1999) and the five year period after passage (2000 to 2004) found that there was no significant difference in the number of dog bites in Spain before or after the Dangerous Animals Act passed. Furthermore, the study found that the most popular breeds (none of which were targeted by the legislation) were responsible for the most bites both before and after passage of the BSL. The targeted breeds accounted for a very small portion of bites both before and after passage of the BSL. The scientists concluded that there was no rational basis for Spain’s BSL. Prince George’s County, MD In 1996, Prince George’s County, Maryland, instituted a pit bull ban. In 2003, a task force set out to determine whether the ban was having the desired effect in a number of areas, including public safety. The task force found that
  • The “public safety benefit is unmeasurable.”
  • Across the board, dog bites had decreased among all breeds at about the same rate. The ban did not appear to have had any noticeable effect on public safety.
  • What’s more, the task force expressed concern that the ban might actually be having a negative effect on public safety; animal control facilities and workers were stretched thin because they were constantly having to respond to “pit bull” complaints and house alleged pit bulls. The task force felt that this had a negative effect on animal control’s ability to respond to other types of violations.
The task force urged Prince George’s County to rescind the ban and institute non-breed-specific dangerous dog laws. Denver, CO Denver’s ban on “pit bulls” has been in place since 1989, and has long been touted as a success by a handful of Denver officials, but it turns out that the results of the ban have been unclear. Since the ban, there has been… But… No fatal attack by a pit bull Fatal attack by a chow mix Fewer bites by pit bulls Dog bites by all types of dogs have declined Fewer pit bull-related complaints Pit bull population is not believed to have decreased in Denver   Thousands of “pit bull”-looking dogs have been killed by animal control for no reason other than appearance.   Bites by other types of dogs now exceed the number of bites by pit bull types Aurora, CO Several cities in Colorado, including Aurora, passed breed bans (or breed restrictions) on pit bulls and a few rarer breeds (i.e. Dogo Argentinos) effective 2006. And though pit bull bites fluxuate from year to year (they decreased initially, but this can be easily linked to the expected decline in pit bull population post-ban), the annual total of bites by other breeds of dogs have stayed the same or increased. Perplexingly, after passing their ban, Aurora changed the way they tally dog bites—allowing the city to subsequently “compare apples to oranges,” so to speak, when evaluating their dog bite statistics pre- and post-ban. For 2006 and 2007, Aurora has broken down bites by severity. Tellingly, over 90% of severe bites were committed by non-restricted breeds in Aurora both years. Surely someone has had success with BSL? The effects of BSL on public safety are seriously understudied, especially by the scientific community. The few scientific studies that exist have indicated that BSL has little to no effect on public safety. In some cases, as in the U.K., dog bites appear to be a growing problem in spite of BSL. To date, there are no scientific studies anywhere that confirm BSL or breed bans have had a significant positive effect on public safety. (Check out this interview with Dr. Alan Beck and Marjorie Darby.) The reasons for this lack of data are numerous:
  • Some cities that pass BSL fail to collect bite data after passage of the legislation. They assume that the problem is solved, and do not look into the issue again.
  • Or, as with Aurora, the city changes its method of bite data collection so that it becomes difficult if not impossible to compare pre- and post-BSL dog bites.
  • Sometimes the city only tracks bites by “pit bulls” and not other breeds, so it is not possible to discern whether another breed is causing more problems after passage of BSL.
  • Often, the city does not make its dog bite data freely and easily available upon request. The reasons why are unclear. One could surmise that this may be because of improper or outdated methods of record-keeping, overburdened office workers, or embarrassment over unfavorable statistics.
  • Breed identification and many other issues raise questions as to the accuracy and validity of many dog bite statistics.
  • There is no uniform method for collecting dog bite information, nor is there a primary organization to which all dog bites are reported.
In the few cases where sufficient data has been scientifically gathered and analyzed, BSL has not been shown to reduce dog bites or improve public safety. What does happen under breed-specific legislation?
  • Innocent people continue to be threatened, bitten, traumatized, disfigured, and killed—by non-targeted breeds and types of dogs.
  • Innocent dogs are killed because they look a certain way.
  • Millions of dollars are wasted and animal control resources stretched thin in order to kill dogs and not save people.
  • Abusive and irresponsible owners carry on with “business as usual.”
  • Good owners and their families are outcasts (if they keep their targeted dog) or devastated (if they give up their targeted dog).
  • Reason, science, and expertise gets ignored or, even worse, scoffed at.
  • Nobody learns anything about the real reasons why dogs bite and attack, safety around dogs, or responsible dog ownership.
Breed-specific legislation makes victims of us all. Sources and Resources Associated Press. “Dutch government to lift 25-year ban on pit bulls.” June 10, 2008. Aurora City Council Meeting, Presentation regarding results of ban , June 27, 2008. Collier, Stephen. “Breed-specific legislation and the pit bull terrier: Are the laws justified?” Journal of Veterinary Behavior (2006) 1, 17-22. Johansson, Brandon. “Council wants to sink its teeth into dog bite data.” Aurora Sentinel Online, Feb. 11, 2008. Lakhani, Nina. “Dog bite victims up by 50 per cent in 10 years.” The Independent Online, Dec. 30, 2007. Prince George’s County Task Force Report, 2003. Rosado et. al. “Spanish dangerous animals act: Effect on the epidemiology of dog bites.” Journal of Veterinary Behavior (2007) 2, 166-174. Sorenson, Dan. “‘Dangerous breed’ ban in Denver yields few clear results.” Arizona Daily Star, Dec. 3, 2006. Watson, Linda. “Does Breed Specific Legislation reduce dog aggression on humans and other animals? A review paper.” From the Endangered Dog Breeds Association of Australia.




Mellissande -> RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? (3/23/2009 11:58:20 AM)

Here is a list of all of the links I have currently and the list is still growing. If I use anything from these websites, I will be sure to cite which one I use feel free to look through the sites though, There is a huge amount of information and also One of the links tells you how to write a letter in to your local lawmakers if BSL is a problem in your area.

in Just the first two links you get the myths and facts about Pit bulls and On the second link you will see just how hard it is to determine whether a dog is a "pit bull" or not.
Unfortunately I do not have many links that are not mainly about Pit bulls, But You have to understand also they are the main breeds being persecuted right now, alongside Rottweilers as a close second.


http://www.mabbr.org/legislation2.html
http://www.mabbr.org/legislation4.html
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/ban.htm
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/articles/breedbanslabradormistake.htm
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/articles/breedbanspersecutionontariostyle.htm
http://stopbsl.com/journalist-resources/scientific-studies/
http://stopbsl.com/journalist-resources/scientific-studies/
http://stopbsl.com/bsloverview/the-failure-to-improve-safety/
http://stopbsl.com/bsloverview/the-injustice-to-victims/
http://stopbsl.com/bsloverview/expensive/
http://stopbsl.com/bsloverview/impossibleid/
http://stopbsl.com/bsloverview/dangerously-attractive/
http://stopbsl.com/bsloverview/irresponsibility/
http://stopbsl.com/bsloverview/the-punishment-of-the-innocent/
http://stopbsl.com/bsloverview/the-lack-of-professional-support/
http://stopbsl.com/alternatives-to-bsl/

http://www.atts.org/stats1.html
http://www.pbrc.net/poppysplace/heroicpitbulls.html
http://www.forpitssake.org/legislation.html
http://www.inalbum.com/ia20/display.php?username=blessthebullys&back=1&filename=Fight_the_good_fight___&pagenum=1&btn=1&bgcolor=282951

http://www.blessthebullys.com/id26.html
http://www.blessthebullys.com/id1.html


http://www.aspca.org/fight-animal-cruelty/dog-fighting/breed-specific-legislation.html
http://www.aspca.org/fight-animal-cruelty/dog-fighting/pit-bull-cruelty.html





LinnaeaBorealis -> RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? (3/23/2009 12:10:25 PM)

A beautiful sweet older female pit bull was abandoned at my apartment & the complex had a pit bull ban.  I was told that I had to get rid of her.  I spent days trying to find someone who could take her.  All of the rescue organizations turned me down.  The humane society told me they would euthanize her.  Now mind you, this dog had no teeth in front, so at some time in her life, I believe that her teeth were pulled to prevent her biting anybody.  She played with my 12 lb chihuahua cross & slept in bed with us.  She never even barked or growled at anyone.  I finally found a woman who ran a rescue who knew of a man in South Dakota who might want her.  I live in Oregon.  She contacted him & sure enough, he did want her.  I packed the dogs into the car & drove for 2 long days to get her to her new home.  He had another pit & lives on acreage where they both could run.  The last time I spoke to her new owner, he told me that she & his cat were best buds & played & slept together.  Vicious, eh?  




Mellissande -> RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? (3/23/2009 12:20:24 PM)

My pit Snuggles with my kittens, I know what you mean though. My husband is in the Army and I've been landed smack in the middle of a BSL war. Not only has most of Kansas enacted BSL, The posts in Kansas have as well, I believe the Army is trying to Ban anything over 50 lbs right now. They told me that my pit is a dangerous breed and he has to wear a muzzle. I went to the dog park and got bitten by a lab, How's that for fair? My dog's never bitten or threatened to bite anyone. I trained him well enough that he knows better. 




beargonewild -> RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? (3/23/2009 12:20:37 PM)

Seems to me that it'll make logical sense and be more effective to educate people on the proper training of any breed of dog. That'll cut out all this need to petition. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that any breed of dog has the potential to be vicious, when you see a vicious dog then take a long hard look at the owner. Dogs learn most of their behavior from their human owners. You treat a dog with kindness and you get it back a thousand fold. You abuse a dog, it will attack. Too many uneducated people forget that a dog is a pack animal by nature and still retains many of it's wild ancestral instinct and the prime instinct in any and all animals is to defend itself.
   I had helped many animal control officers and yes it does sicken me seeing a dog being put down because it attacked a human, what really makes me sick is seeing the owner who doesn't give a damn about the proper care and ethical treatment of their dog or any other pet they may own. Those are the people who need to be legislated from owning pets and educated in humanitarian treatment of pets.




BKSir -> RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? (3/23/2009 12:25:21 PM)

Now, I don't like dogs, in fact, to be honest, I'm scared of dogs that are shorter than my knee, it's a phobia, I'm not even going to try to explain.  However, that being said, I am fully against this kind of legislation.  Pitbulls are not dangerous animals, unless raised improperly.  No dog is dangerous if brought up properly.  Hell, some of the biggest, stupidest, most lovable lap sponges of a hair covered lump I've ever seen are pit bulls and others on that list.  An old employer of mine had a great dane that hung out in the office, and about the biggest danger it would be capable of is suffoccating you by knocking you over and sleeping on your chest.  I've even had friends that have had wolves as pets (there's some things I just don't even ask about), and dangerous is the last thing I'd call them, unless you tried to harm their owner.  And even roughhousing a bit was fine by them, they seemed that they could tell intent very easily.  At worst, they'd usually wake up, grumble a bit and wander off to the food dish.

What I guess I'm saying is that, much like humans, dogs are greatly a product of their environment.  If raised right, they'll be wonderful and successful.  If raised improperly, of course they'll be trouble.  If you train a dog or human or any creature to be viscious  from a young age, that's exactly how it will be.

If anything, I would think that laws to ban and/or euthanise bad owners would be a more logical plan.  That's just me though.




BOUNTYHUNTER -> RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? (3/23/2009 12:34:53 PM)

Its not the breed of dog that needs regulated its the freakin; owners..Why in the world one would buy a pit or large breed dog if they can't control them..I am a hunter,I have hounds, pits and my pits are some of the sweets dog alive.They are raised with love and taught to do what I need from them, yes they will fight a bear or hogg to the death if need be but are regular lap dogs around the house..One female loves to ride in the truck with me every where I go and is a people dog..B




purepleasure -> RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? (3/23/2009 12:35:41 PM)

There are a few other breeds that should be included, as being "known aggressive breeds", including collies, akitas, and labrador retrievers.

Personally, I don't believe these particular breeds should be banned, but I do believe the animals need to be registered with the local animal control office when living at any particular address.

My cousin had a beautiful female akita, and one of the sweetest dogs you could have ever wanted to meet.  The dog was treated like royalty.  One day when the family was in the yard, just enjoying the fresh air, a neighbor was walking a smaller dog.  I believe it was a bischon frise, or maltese.  The akita jumped the fence and attacked the small dog for NO reason, and killed it.  My cousin is a firefighter, and a pretty strong guy, and he could not pull his akita off the smaller dog.  At the time his daughter was just a toddler, and for her safety, he had the akita destroyed, since it had "turned bad" for no apparent reason.







BigBeauty51 -> RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? (3/23/2009 12:43:34 PM)

i've had two rottweilers, Damien who unfortunately had to be put down because of cancer, and now i have Heidi.  Both were socialized heavily and trained properly.  Protective? yes.  Aggressive? no.  Protective only to the extent that if i am threatened.  The only thing Damien was aggressive with was the butterflies he tried to keep out of the yard.  And Heidi is a big sweetheart.  i know we've heard this a lot, but it depends on the training and socializing of the dog.  i pay through the nose for home insurance because of this BSL.  But you know what?  Damien and Heidi are worth every penny.




LaTigresse -> RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? (3/23/2009 12:46:19 PM)

I adore dogs, work with rescue organizations and rehabilitate dogs with aggression problems. My son has a pit that is a sweetheart. Yet......I do believe that there are SOME instances that breed/size exclusion is warranted.

No large breed dogs in apartments I can understand.

No more than two dogs per household in town I can understand.

I also would have no problem supporting a city registration of specific breeds, and.....requiring owners of specific breeds to undergo a training programme with their dog/s. If the dog and owner did not pass the class, the dog cannot stay in town.




Gwynvyd -> RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? (3/23/2009 1:00:00 PM)

 See that is one of the reasons why we love you.

*hugs*


Gwyn




LinnaeaBorealis -> RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? (3/23/2009 2:13:47 PM)

Up until Friday, I had a 13 lb chihuahua/terrier cross who came to me feral.  I worked with him diligently until he was the sweetest tamest dog ever.  But when people met him for the first time, many of them would ask if he bit before reaching out to him.  I had a stock answer:  He hasn't bitten anyone yet, but he is a dog, after all.  Dogs of all breeds, sizes, temperaments & upbringing are capable of biting given the proper circumstances. 




Lynnxz -> RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? (3/23/2009 2:22:49 PM)

You know, I've never actually met an aggressive pit/rottie/chow that wasn't poorly trained or abused. Now- aggressive labs? Holy crap- C owns a couple of maneaters that have sent more than one person to the ER- and they've had several training classes. They've finally calmed down... I think. 




FelineFae -> RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? (3/23/2009 3:05:07 PM)

~FR~
Master owned a dog that was 3/4 wolf  1/4 siberian husky. Amazing creature! Great inside a house, so well trained. Gentle with children, he loved people attention. Oh that boy thought he was hot stuff when we'd take him walking and everyone came up to pet him... But the army wouldn't let us keep him. So now he is happy to live with his human grandparents out in the country where he can roam freely.

i saw a bumper sticker that read, "Outlaw Stupid People NOT DOGS", i want one.


edited cuz i keeping leaving letters out of words.




LaTigresse -> RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? (3/23/2009 3:19:56 PM)

That is something I am strongly against. I don't believe in people owning wild animals or hybrids of such. I do believe it should be illegal. Especially the domestic/wild animal hybrid.




FelineFae -> RE: Breed Specific Legislation Own any of these? (3/23/2009 3:24:31 PM)

Our pet came to us through a husky rescue program. Wolves are bred into that breed. Our pet was born out of so called "breeding stock". He was part of an acidental litter of puppies and no one wanted those puppies because they didn't fall into the breeding standard, thats why the litter went to the rescue program.




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