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RE: How to train a sub to be a good male wife in real l... - 3/26/2009 8:51:46 PM   
littlesarbonn


Posts: 1710
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From: Stockton, California
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I think a lot of the responses in this thread are about whether or not a woman would want to train a submissive to be a good cleaner. Some invoked the idea that military training means they need little training.

None of that really works for me. I'm a lifestyle submissive and a service submissive for the most part. I would do all the cleaning and housework because I realize it would make her happy, not because of other complications that seem to get in the way here. It would make me happy to know that she is happy with my service, and at the same time she'd have more time to focus on other things that are important to her, which hopefully involve me. I think when it gets stuck up in "will she keep me in women's clothing" and stuff like that, it kind of loses its meaning. I'm really not into the whole feminization thing; I'm proud of being a man, so that's not really my thing. At the same time, I don't have a dominant gene in my body when it comes to mutual relationships between a man and a woman. In ownership relationships of the past, I took great pleasure in devoting an entire day to trimming her garden or doing something that might make her smile when she discovered what I did that day. The whole carrot and stick thing never really appealed to me; it's nice as fantasy and can be introduced as such, but I'd do it because it is a cool thing to do rather than it was the thing that got her attention.


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RE: How to train a sub to be a good male wife in real l... - 3/27/2009 1:52:27 AM   
chezzy71


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Miss Lockit is right.....i love to cook and i love to keep a clean house...it is all inside you.Some have bigger hearts than others and even more are willing to learn without punishment or use that as a way to get their jollies off.

(in reply to MzMia)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: How to train a sub to be a good male wife in real l... - 3/27/2009 2:00:40 AM   
subboi3382


Posts: 379
Joined: 8/4/2005
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Yes, I agree with her too
quote:

ORIGINAL: chezzy71

Miss Lockit is right.....i love to cook and i love to keep a clean house...it is all inside you.Some have bigger hearts than others and even more are willing to learn without punishment or use that as a way to get their jollies off.

(in reply to chezzy71)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: How to train a sub to be a good male wife in real l... - 3/27/2009 6:41:44 AM   
ShaktiSama


Posts: 1674
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I think Lockit has some good points in general; my only major disagreement with her is the same disagreement I have with many dommes who expect to meet a perfect person who knows everything in advance.  I do not think it fair to condemn people because they had "bad parents"-I completely disagree with her position that bad, neglectful, or too-femme-submissive-traditional parenting automatically produce a person who is permanently worthless.

Why?  Because I have yet to run into any human being who was Mary Freakin' Poppins and Practically Perfect In Every Way from the first moment we met.  Housework, cooking and hygiene are skills that have to be learned from experience and with guidance.  The fact that no one has provided a person with training and guidance in this area before doesn't mean that they are incapable of learning. A human being is capable of learning and doing anything they set their minds to.  If a submissive understands that a clean and orderly environment is important, he or she can learn.  It may never be their greatest talent, but minimum standards can be met.

The same is true of meeting other needs--sexual, emotional, nutritional, whatever.  Training a man to be a good male wife is not that much different than training a woman to be a good female wife.  It isn't about punishment; it's about patience, communication and mutual love and respect.  Sometimes the emphasis is going to be on the patience part, as you stubbornly but firmly lay the groundwork for the sort of home you want to live in, in the future.  Sometimes the communication takes over, as you clearly and calmly explain what it is that you want, why it is important, etc..  And sometimes you simply have to laugh, forgive, turn off the smoke alarm, and order out.





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RE: How to train a sub to be a good male wife in real l... - 3/27/2009 7:55:12 AM   
AAkasha


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

I think a lot of this is about what a person is willing to do in life period.  If they don't value something, they won't put themselves out to do it.  If one values someone else and that something is important to them... they will do what it takes to learn whatever.. with or without instruction.  A willingness of heart to do something is what I look for.

Someone can know how to cook and clean and not wish to do it and resent doing it.  Someone can know basic's only and go out of their way to learn more because it is a value to the one they value.  A lot of this is attitude.

Someone who needs punishment to do what I ask... well.. the heart is lacking... the kink or head games are not.


Great points.  But also what will "make or break" a "service submissive" and his value is his motivation for his role. If his motivation is purely about:

* How he will be "treated" and stimulated
* What he will be "forced" or "required" to do (ie, rule-mongers)
* What the "packaging" of his service will be (what he wears, etc)

...then I think you are with a submissive who is more about the fantasy than the act.  Anything else can be learned, and should be learned, refined and mastered as part of his skillset.  A "male wife" should take his job as seriously as a paying full time job.  A valuable employee is not one that needs constant direction and handholding, but one who can intuitively pick up the skills needed with very little micromanaging and essentially make the life of the boss easier.

Akasha


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(in reply to Lockit)
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RE: How to train a sub to be a good male wife in real l... - 3/27/2009 10:35:48 AM   
Lockit


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My grandmother was an amazing teacher and taught younger people and was well respected by most and asked to teach in the best of schools, but chose to go where she was needed most.  As an adult I was amazed at how many of her students remembered her and contacted her to thank her for changing their lives and giving them direction that led to fulfilling careers and lives.  They even sent her gifts and some from all over the world.  I learned from that woman and wanted to follow in her footsteps and would have had I not been ill.

I have been teaching in my own ways most of my life.

While I state things in such a way as it might seem I believe someone should be all put together... I have yet to meet many who were.  Everyone can learn something.  I learn something new almost every day.  I just happen to forget a lot of it! lol

I look at things very simply but that doesn't mean that I have no tolerance and expect far too much.  I think the way I say things sometimes is coming more from an irritation for lack of a better word... in seeing something I find distasteful... which often is an unrealistic fantasy that really makes little common sense to me or my life and a fifty year old man with few abilities... makes no sense to me! lol

I look for a teachable spirit.  Someone who looks at life as a lesson to be learned or something to be experienced and thirst for more.  Someone who can listen to other's and consider different aspects of people, life.. or any situation.  If you have in a sense a bull in a china shop, who doesn't know anything but his way... who cannot readily accept a different view... or cannot or will not be open for change or advancement and stubbornly acts out in past wounds or one way is true or an unbalanced view or lifestyle (all sexual or me, me, me/whatever) I don't have much tolerance.

Be willing to embrace change and welcome learning like it is the gift it is and that will inspire me to know you far more.  I don't expect perfection... not even in myself.  I am loving and understanding and I love teaching just as my grandmother did and it comes so naturally to me that I can't even think of myself as a person who wouldn't be willing to teach.  I do think sometimes my teaching attitude can turn people off!  Just the way I talk or say things sometimes.  But if one knows me, they see me as judgemental on few things... very understanding, patient and always ready to help, support and learn and teach whatever the situation brings about.

As a person, woman and dominant I am not lazy and I will put my all into whatever I take on in life.  So there is no way I would not be willing to put the effort into anyone or to teach/train/whatever isn't something I can even imagine.  I just typically don't write a chapter in a book in a post that explains all my thoughts on a subject.

If I am unwilling to work with someone, I would be a very poor human being, woman, mother, mate or dominant.  Basic's in cleaning or cooking or life in general are all I expect.  Like I said, we do what we find valuable.  If one doesn't like cleaning or cooking... but does like other things and has other talents, it is all well and fine. lol  If I met someone who was different than I, I would hope that we each took an interest in one another enough to try to at least understand those differences and be able to manage some basic knowledge or abilities in what we don't know to please one another.  Yes, I did say one another.  For it is my place to value and learn just as much as it is whoever I am with.  If either of us isn't able to place importance on the other and do a bit of learning or work... someone isn't doing things right in my opinion.

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RE: How to train a sub to be a good male wife in real l... - 3/28/2009 12:32:18 AM   
atypicalsub


Posts: 284
Joined: 4/11/2008
From: an atypical sub
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
A "male wife" should take his job as seriously as a paying full time job.  A valuable employee is not one that needs constant direction and handholding, but one who can intuitively pick up the skills needed with very little micromanaging and essentially make the life of the boss easier.

Akasha


That is my purpose here.  To improve my Mistress's home, and her life.  Living with a woman who treats me well, and encourages me, it has really turned out to be a lot easier than I expected.

btw: When I lived alone and never had visitors there seemed little point in keeping my apartment clean; it was always cluttered.  Here it is different.  When Mistress's best friend visited she said that she had never seen the place so clean.


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RE: How to train a sub to be a good male wife in real l... - 3/28/2009 3:24:52 AM   
houseboy001


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MsLockit has a wonderful working knowledge of the 'male wife' or domestic submissive.  All of Her posts have been not only informative but also very direct.  

(in reply to atypicalsub)
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RE: How to train a sub to be a good male wife in real l... - 3/28/2009 7:50:58 AM   
LovingMistress45


Posts: 271
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullfigRIMAAM1

I understand that while most folks may believe that submission is about tit for tat/exchange (no pun intended), it really isn't what works for me.   I'm very generous to people who give freely of themeselves, in terms of caring about their joy/enjoyment.     However, I shut down if anyone comes at me with a list of things I need to do in order for him to submit or serve.    M


I am in agreement with you on this. I so hate being told if I do "such & such" it will bring out his submissiveness.  Really how about someone that is just submissive and doesn't need to be "turned on" first.

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RE: How to train a sub to be a good male wife in real l... - 3/28/2009 8:01:42 AM   
iwearpanties


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good point

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RE: How to train a sub to be a good male wife in real l... - 3/28/2009 10:29:13 AM   
LovingMistress45


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Thank you

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: How to train a sub to be a good male wife in real l... - 3/28/2009 11:00:44 AM   
lilsubrt


Posts: 41
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Hello All,

  Yes the first introduction here was from the 'Rents. Your pen got the bathroom , the tub, the sinks, the mirrors, the toilet, and the floors. While most cleaning is simple , see the Dirt, get rid of the Dirt. It was as an adult while working a as a pro for a Restoration/Cleaning company that the Finer points and Skills were Taught. You'll find a few of those Finer Points listed below,

1).   Never let Your Nose Fool Your Eyes. American cleaning product companies ( and perhaps worldwide wouldn't know as having never left the country for an extended stay) bombard us with the concept that, Smell Equals Clean, " The Smell of Clean, Spring Fresh Clean ", etc, etc. Lies, Lies, Lies, Not True. The area can be both Dirty and smell Great and Clean and have Very Little Smell. We were told to place a pleasant, Cherry Smelling Fragrance Additive, to our cleaning solution to help sooth the client, Gotta Love It, Foolin' With the Mind !!!!! We Did Have to, however, do the whole white glove treatment before we left the home to prove to the client that the job was done and done Right.

2).   Better Living Through Chemistry, aka. Right Product for the Right Job. Never and It Is A Hard and Fast Rule Never, use Too Harsh a Chemical to Move the Dirt. It Really Sucks to have a Nice, Clean Area only to find out the Surface ( fabric, wallpaper, paint, wood finish ), Is Destroyed.  Trust on this one Everybody, done it personally, so yup, speaking from Experience here, and Damn It Sucked, you're looking at replacement or repair bills.

3).   Never rinse the dirt into Your cleaning solution. Most people get one bucket fill it with whatever they are going to use to clean and wring out the dirty rag, cloth diaper ( recommended as they can be washed and resued over and over and they are very forgiving to just about any surface, and very little lint ), into the solution. This tends to spread the dirt that is suspened in the solution everywhere else. The best way is to use two buckets one full of rags/diapers in the cleaning product and one where you place the dirty rags until they can be laundered. Likewise for floors, execpt there you rinse the mop out in the sink so when it gets put back in the cleaner it isn't full of dirt that gets spread around.

4).  With Alot of Places ( walls, Furniture) make sure there is a wet rag in one hand and a dry one Just After in the other. You may remember and yes here is a date range for You, The Karate Kid, Wax On Wax Off line. If not, You're Gonna' end up with a Nice Clean, " Racing Stripe ". We came in after oil based heater malfunctions mostly, so this was a necessity and drilled into our heads.

5).   Bath and Kicthen fixtures, Use Windex or a window cleaner after you've used whatever you got the nasty stuff off with to erase any streaks and leave them Nice and Shiney. It is also a Pleasant Fragrance That Just Wreeks of Clean, LOL. One Note Of Caution here, Make sure you don't use an Ammonia product Immediatly after a Cholorine product, Never, and Serious One Here boys, Never Do That. Should you, Dilute ( one old guy once said the Solution to Polution Is Dilution ), and open the windows and Leave the room, you've created Chlorine Gas, they Use that In Gas Chambers, It Can Kill.

6).   Carpets, Shampooing makes a carpet look beter, as the cleaner, much like clothes detergent will have color brighteners. Steam Cleaning ( a misnomer, as actual steam will Melt most carpet fibers ), will get the carpet Much Cleaner. The Optimum is to have them shampooed them steam cleaned, we Used to Call that a " Show Case ".

7).   Always clean from Top To Bottom, Except Walls as They Are Opposite, ( see # 4 the, " Racing Stripe " ), that way you are Not Cleaning the Same Dirt Twice. It will become airborne and land right in your way a second time, if you let it.

    So as You can see, just in the one area of cleaning, there are parts of being a " Good male-Wife " that Should be inherent from a sub's upbringing  and therefore should have been relayed by his parents. There are also However, Many, Many, Learned Aspects and Skills that raise that level a notch or twelve.

    The concentration of this disertation has been on cleaning and of course there Are many Other Aspects of being a " Good male-Wife ", that involve many other Skills that Each have their own Diversity as well. The Real Key, ( and Yes It Has Been a Prevailing Sentiment on this Thread ), being for him to Find Those Particulars and to be Willing and Accpeting of Anything She may Need, Like, Want  and Adjusting his Beliefs to What She Prescribes for Each.

    Thank You All for Your Time and Consideration,

    Hope All Are Well,

    lilsubrt

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RE: How to train a sub to be a good male wife in real l... - 3/28/2009 11:21:07 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
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There have been some good points brought up.  I have to say that I'm still with the crowd that says any adult should have some minimum housekeeping skills.  I do understand that, even in this day and age there are some people who do not know how to cook.  I'm ok with that, as long as the person is either willing to learn or accepts the fact that they will have to get really comfortable with ordering and paying for take out.  I'm pretty easy to please in both of these areas.  The house doesn't have to be perfect.  Just keep the dishes done up and the mated socks in the drawer.  On the food, as long as you're not making Me sick (that's literal, as I have a particular food allergy), we'll get along fine.

The thing that does bother Me a bit about the male wife idea is that it seems it's automatically assumed that some kind of feminization goes hand in hand with it.  I can promise that the vacuum cleaner really doesn't care what kind of underwear a person has on when it's being run and the dishwasher doesn't refuse to start unless the person is wearing a french maid's outfit.  I'm also not interested in the scenario where I have to come home wondering if dinner is in the works or the sub is more interested in being punished.  I'm more the type that I want My house in order so play time can be fun.

I realize some of the above are some people's kinks, and I'm not knocking you for them.  They just don't happen to be Mine.  There are some concepts of what it means to be a male wife that would make Me wanting a divorce.


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(in reply to LovingMistress45)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: How to train a sub to be a good male wife in real l... - 3/28/2009 11:21:08 AM   
ShaktiSama


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Nice post, lilsubrt.


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"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea."
-- Robert A. Heinlein

(in reply to lilsubrt)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: How to train a sub to be a good male wife in real l... - 3/29/2009 12:25:57 AM   
FullfigRIMAAM1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LovingMistress45
I so hate being told if I do "such & such" it will bring out his submissiveness.  Really how about someone that is just submissive and doesn't need to be "turned on" first.
Exactly!    If he isn't turned on by the idea of submitting to and serving me, he isn't going to be turned on period.
Than there are the boys that get it, and may actually inspire some dominas to seek out their list of kinks, and toy with them... 
quote:

littlesarbonn
I'm a lifestyle submissive and a service submissive for the most part. I would do all the cleaning and housework because I realize it would make her happy, not because of other complications that seem to get in the way here. It would make me happy to know that she is happy with my service, and at the same time she'd have more time to focus on other things that are important to her, which hopefully involve me.
 

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The place to improve the world is first in one's own heart and head and hands.-Robert M. Persig

Love is the only sane and satisfactory answer to the problem of human existence Erich Fromm

(in reply to LovingMistress45)
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RE: How to train a sub to be a good male wife in real l... - 3/29/2009 9:53:25 AM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
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Oh god... I re-read some of this... and just woke up.  My first question was if one must be turned on to clean or cook, what the hell does their house look like?  Then of course I just had to take it futher!  Damn it!  Not something I want to see in 'my' early morning fog.  A guy naked... inspiring himself to clean his home... beating off constantly because he can't do dishes until he has.

Sounds silly... but really... if someone can't do things because they need to be done and must make a kink out of it... well... I guess I am just becoming very old and cranky and boring in my old age!  I will not be used like that! lol

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RE: How to train a sub to be a good male wife in real l... - 3/29/2009 9:59:53 AM   
YoursMistress


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Wow lilsubrt, thanks for some wonderful tips. 

yours


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May your service of love a beautiful thing; want nothing else, fear nothing else and let love be free to become what love truly is. -- Hadewijch of Antwerp

As a rule, I don't like to make general statements.

(in reply to lilsubrt)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: How to train a sub to be a good male wife in real l... - 3/29/2009 10:14:07 AM   
lilsubrt


Posts: 41
Joined: 5/17/2008
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ShaktiSama,

   Thank You So Much for the Kind Words, They Are Greatly Appreciated.

   While being back here there is another point. Gotta' agree with LadyPact that the Role of male-Wife doesn't have a Gender, Or More Appropriately stated, Gender-Bending Feature Automatically Associated with it. That Should Be Thought Of on a Case By Case Basis and is for Each Couple To Decide on Their Own.

   Yes It is true that yours truly Does Wear Only Panties now, Goddess has a Completely Different Reason for that. She Wants to make Sure It Is Well Understood That It Is Her Cock, Period, and Uses that As Her Little Reminder. Adjustment to the change, which happened nearly 4 years ago, was Really easy all in all. No Big Deal Here, It Is Her Choice, She Discussed Her Reasons With him and he Agreed With Her Decision Completely. She Is Very Thoughtful That Way, She Will Always Explain Why She Has Made a Specific Decision and Listen to Any Rebuttal he may Have, Prior To It's Implementation 

   Thank You All For Your time and Consideration,  

   Hope All Are Well,

   lilsubrt


< Message edited by lilsubrt -- 3/29/2009 10:20:20 AM >

(in reply to FullfigRIMAAM1)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: How to train a sub to be a good male wife in real l... - 3/29/2009 10:24:37 AM   
lilsubrt


Posts: 41
Joined: 5/17/2008
Status: offline
YoursMistress,

    You Are Quite Welcome, Anything To Help Out Where Possible. As Always,  Thank You For the Kind Words, They Are Appreciated. 

    Hope All Are Well,

    lilsubrt

(in reply to lilsubrt)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: How to train a sub to be a good male wife in real l... - 3/29/2009 2:31:56 PM   
lilsubrt


Posts: 41
Joined: 5/17/2008
Status: offline
Lilsubrts Mistress here.
If a man isn't submissive in his being you can't beat him into it.
A sub doesn't have to wear femme clothes to be submissive. I like my subs to look like men.
I think that some subs see being a male wife as being at home 24/7. Well , that means he would work & take care of things like a wife in a vanilla relationship.
If he can't keep house to my standard I can explain how I want it done. There is no "training".
Lilsubrt did report correctly that he wears panties as a reminder that he has my cock on his body . For no other reason.

(in reply to lilsubrt)
Profile   Post #: 40
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