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G20 summit protests in London - 4/1/2009 8:18:14 PM

Vendaval

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For those CM members in London, let's be careful out there.

Thursday, 2 April 2009 02:02 UK

"More G20 summit protests expected"

A second day of protests are expected as world leaders gather for the G20 summit at the ExCel Centre in London.

From 0700 BST there are plans to disrupt traders at the London Stock Exchange, and from 1100 BST anti-war protests are planned near the summit.

On Wednesday, largely peaceful protests in the City financial district were punctuated by flashes of violence.

Police reported 87 arrests and said they would track down troublemakers. Most people had dispersed by midnight.
Stop the war Coalition, the British Muslim Initiative, CND and others said they were planning anti-war protests in the vicinity of the ExCel centre in east London's Docklands.

They are being allowed in one area just outside the security fence erected around the conference hall. "

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7978105.stm

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Post #: 1

RE: G20 summit protests in London - 4/1/2009 9:23:20 PM

Marc2b

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Self absorbed, self indulgent, ignoramuses.

“Look at me! I smash glass windows! I taunt police! And I have a placard with a pat slogan on it! I care!”

Cripes you dimbulbs! If you need to show off while getting an adrenaline rush, take up skydiving.

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Post #: 2

RE: G20 summit protests in London - 4/1/2009 9:43:59 PM

awmslave

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I would like to see better organization but it is the right time for serious protest. The current global corporatism has weakened itself substantially and alternative views should raise their voice.

(in reply to Vendaval)

Post #: 3

RE: G20 summit protests in London - 4/1/2009 10:56:17 PM

MissMorrigan

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What constitutes a serious protest, drunken yobs wreaking havoc and preventing a collapsed man from receiving much-needed medical attention by pelting paramedics/police with bottles? Not in my name. I do not need someone to die for my voice to be heard.

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RE: G20 summit protests in London - 4/1/2009 11:53:57 PM

TheUtopian

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It looks to me--from what I've been reading--- like the London revellers are having lots of clean, honest fun. Woulda been an ideal holiday in the UK to see it all, up close and personal.

- R

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RE: G20 summit protests in London - 4/2/2009 6:20:48 AM

kittinSol

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It's healthy. People should be protesting. It worries me more when apathy reigns.

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RE: G20 summit protests in London - 4/2/2009 6:47:29 AM

pahunkboy

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Just stop paying anything that has to do with a bank.

problem solved.

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RE: G20 summit protests in London - 4/2/2009 6:56:25 AM

shannie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan

What constitutes a serious protest, drunken yobs wreaking havoc and preventing a collapsed man from receiving much-needed medical attention by pelting paramedics/police with bottles? Not in my name. I do not need someone to die for my voice to be heard.

I keep hearing in the news, over and over, about one idiot who said, "Abolish money!!" -- as if there was nothing intelligent said by any of the tens of thousand of people who protested. This is an obvious spin by the mainstream press.

And wherever there is a just cause, and a true need for uprising, protest, war, etc. -- there are (unfortunately) always a certain number of idiots, and a certain amount of gratuitous violence. But does that render the cause unjust, or laughable?

(in reply to MissMorrigan)

Post #: 8

RE: G20 summit protests in London - 4/2/2009 7:08:34 AM

pahunkboy

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when the masses flip out- it wont work.    Why? Because everyone will trend for a different unrelated and unfocused goal. I see it in the Ron Paul crowd. A group who did quite well for a while.

then on states passing sovereignty laws, 24 so far; I dont see that working.   Why? Because- no state can go too long with out some type of cash infusion. Which will come with strings. IE- answer to centralized power.

There was a tad of encouragement in Obamas gift to the Queen.   The Ipod had camelot as one of the items. Camelot = kennedy = end the fed.   I doubt the hint was even noticed. Unsure if the slam was even intentional.

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Post #: 9

RE: G20 summit protests in London - 4/2/2009 7:39:16 AM

MissMorrigan

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I have three of the most powerful people in the world whose legacies have brought about positive change:

Dr. Martin Luther King
Mohandas Karamchand Ghandiji
Henry David Thoreau

Non violent methods are shown to work for a common cause. More can be accomplished through working as a body without violence than it ever can through intimidation, brutality and disorder. How people behave determine the outcome, the moment people resort to intimidation and violence their position is weakened.

The choice is clear, would I want a group of people working consistently and intelligently to bring about a change, or a body of people that lack a clear understanding of how to bring about change and whose actions show disorganisation and a loss of self control... The latter I would never want to be associated with.

< Message edited by MissMorrigan -- 4/2/2009 7:43:33 AM >

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Post #: 10

RE: G20 summit protests in London - 4/2/2009 8:19:45 AM

shannie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan

I have three of the most powerful people in the world whose legacies have brought about positive change:

Dr. Martin Luther King
Mohandas Karamchand Ghandiji
Henry David Thoreau

Non violent methods are shown to work for a common cause. More can be accomplished through working as a body without violence than it ever can through intimidation, brutality and disorder. How people behave determine the outcome, the moment people resort to intimidation and violence their position is weakened.

The choice is clear, would I want a group of people working consistently and intelligently to bring about a change, or a body of people that lack a clear understanding of how to bring about change and whose actions show disorganisation and a loss of self control... The latter I would never want to be associated with.

Yes, but amongst supporters of these very people, there was often violence.

The media successfully lures us into discounting the grounds for protest because of the behavior of some individuals (which the media chooses to emphasize disproportionately).

The thing is, if Ghandi advocated for Indian liberation from British colonization, and that was a just cause -- then one couldn't discount the cause because some of his supporters acted like idiots, or engaged in violence.

The real question is whether there a primary cause behind the protests that is just. If so, then shouldn't we support the protests, even while calling for non-violence (if that is your philosophy)?

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Post #: 11

RE: G20 summit protests in London - 4/2/2009 8:41:21 AM

shannie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan

I have three of the most powerful people in the world whose legacies have brought about positive change:

Dr. Martin Luther King
Mohandas Karamchand Ghandiji
Henry David Thoreau

These people also went out and joined the protests (amidst the chaos and violence) and from that position, advocated non-violence. And they risked violence and incarceration (and their very lives) themselves.

To sit at home, doing nothing (but ridiculing protesters), under the guise of non-violence, is antithetical to what these people taught and practiced.

(I'm not saying you're doing that, but many are.)

(in reply to MissMorrigan)

Post #: 12

RE: G20 summit protests in London - 4/2/2009 8:55:51 AM

InTonguesslut

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We Brits love to protest but for varying reasons.

About :-

30% of the protesters will be there for genuine reasons.
30% will be there for a fight.
20% will be at any protest.
10% won't know why they are there.
10% will be there trying to get their five minutes of fame.

Personally i'd be in a pub protesting about the crappy flat beer with no head that southerners serve - yak !!

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Post #: 13

RE: G20 summit protests in London - 4/2/2009 8:56:24 AM

HalloweenWhite

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quote:

ORIGINAL: shannie

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan

What constitutes a serious protest, drunken yobs wreaking havoc and preventing a collapsed man from receiving much-needed medical attention by pelting paramedics/police with bottles? Not in my name. I do not need someone to die for my voice to be heard.

I keep hearing in the news, over and over, about one idiot who said, "Abolish money!!" -- as if there was nothing intelligent said by any of the tens of thousand of people who protested. This is an obvious spin by the mainstream press.

And wherever there is a just cause, and a true need for uprising, protest, war, etc. -- there are (unfortunately) always a certain number of idiots, and a certain amount of gratuitous violence. But does that render the cause unjust, or laughable?

True. I think you have a point.

(in reply to shannie)

Post #: 14

RE: G20 summit protests in London - 4/2/2009 8:57:11 AM

RacerJim

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan

I have three of the most powerful people in the world whose legacies have brought about positive change:

Dr. Martin Luther King
Mohandas Karamchand Ghandiji
Henry David Thoreau

Non violent methods are shown to work for a common cause. More can be accomplished through working as a body without violence than it ever can through intimidation, brutality and disorder. How people behave determine the outcome, the moment people resort to intimidation and violence their position is weakened.

The choice is clear, would I want a group of people working consistently and intelligently to bring about a change, or a body of people that lack a clear understanding of how to bring about change and whose actions show disorganisation and a loss of self control... The latter I would never want to be associated with.

Here are my three most powerful people in the world whose legacies have brought about positive change:
Jesus Christ
Christopher Columbus
Albert Einstein

Non-violent methods have indeed been shown to have worked for a common cause, but only when the mainstream-media has given them proper coverage.

With regard to the Subject of this thread, there have already been numerous non-violent "Tea Party" protests (essentially against NObama's outlandish tax and spend policies) in major cities across the USA with thousands more participants at each of them than at the G20 protests in London, but the mainstream-media has ignored them for the most part.

The reason couldn't be clearer. The mainstream-media is still in the tank for NObama.

(in reply to MissMorrigan)

Post #: 15

RE: G20 summit protests in London - 4/2/2009 9:01:02 AM

kidwithknife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan
Non violent methods are shown to work for a common cause. More can be accomplished through working as a body without violence than it ever can through intimidation, brutality and disorder. How people behave determine the outcome, the moment people resort to intimidation and violence their position is weakened.

The counterexample to the people you give would be the Suffragettes. While it can be debated whether women would have got the right to vote in the UK without the tactics they used, the fact they used violence isn't in dispute. (And significant amounts of violence. Including tactics that would be considered terrorist).

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RE: G20 summit protests in London - 4/2/2009 9:08:27 AM

stella41b

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I unfortunately was caught up in the City protests and was almost arrested as the police stopped and searched me and found a screwdriver in my possession. I was travelling from Old Street in the City towards home and then onto a technical rehearsal at the venue in Battersea. The police suggested I change my plans and go home 'if I didn't want to get myself into trouble'.

As a result I'm at home today, all rehearsals for my forthcoming play are cancelled until Sunday and thanks to what happened I have to fit into two rehearsals what I wanted to do over six or seven.

This is all unnecessary - and it doesn't matter here whether it's the heavy-handed attitude of the police, the violence and vandalism of some of the protestors (yeah right, as if the people responsible for all this are really going to be travelling to work in the rush hour) the biased reporting of the media (what about the perfectly peaceful protests in Trafalgar Square which also took place?) or the taunting and provocation of some of the City workers towards the protestors.

All it shows, and it shows it to the world, in London at least, that our society is divided, bitterly so among class lines, and that people are divided, bitter, angry, filled with hatred towards each other, that there is very little respect not just towards law and the property of other but also to one's fellow man. It shows up the lack of solidarity among people in this country, that people have their own agendas, that people aren't bothered about listening to the other side of the argument and coming together.

That opportunity for revolution has come and gone, and hate-filled protests and mindless violence isn't the solution, because the authorities are more than well equipped to deal with confrontation and as you can see it won't win you many friends among the media or people.

Once again the media was used to set the people against each other and once again the protestors fell for it, completely missing the point. And the point is most of those City workers are not, as the media claims, bankers, but people who work for banks - secretaries, financial analysts, computer and IT specialists, cleaners, caterers and agency workers - people who just like some of the protestors are exploited and yes, some of those City workers can be poor - a high degree of personal debt can make anyone poor.

G20 will come and go, but the problems won't and the problems will remain for as long as people remain entrenched in their respective positions and nor daring or wanting to overcome the divisions which keep them divided.

Change will only come when those barriers and divisions are broken down and overcome and people start showing some solidarity and cooperation and coming together. It won't come with a Labour government, it won't come with a Conservative one either, nor a government formed of BNP or the Respect Coalition or whoever our longstanding leader Rupert Murdoch decides should form the puppet government.

It will only come when people stop blaming each other and start working with each other to overcome the differences.

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Post #: 17

RE: G20 summit protests in London - 4/2/2009 9:13:42 AM

MrRodgers

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

Self absorbed, self indulgent, ignoramuses.

“Look at me! I smash glass windows! I taunt police! And I have a placard with a pat slogan on it! I care!”

Cripes you dimbulbs! If you need to show off while getting an adrenaline rush, take up skydiving.

Especially when it might upset the plutocracy. The only 'peacable assembly for a redress of our grievances' allowed now...is lobbying.

(in reply to Marc2b)

Post #: 18

RE: G20 summit protests in London - 4/2/2009 9:25:15 AM

shannie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b
Once again the media was used to set the people against each other and once again the protestors fell for it, completely missing the point. And the point is most of those City workers are not, as the media claims, bankers, but people who work for banks - secretaries, financial analysts, computer and IT specialists, cleaners, caterers and agency workers - people who just like some of the protestors are exploited and yes, some of those City workers can be poor - a high degree of personal debt can make anyone poor.

So true. It seems the masses always turn on each other (with encouragement from those in power, of course) before they, if ever, turn on the true source of oppression.

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Post #: 19

RE: G20 summit protests in London - 4/2/2009 9:48:28 AM

Marc2b

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quote:

It's healthy. People should be protesting. It worries me more when apathy reigns.

There are other ways of demonstrating a lack of apathy besides prancing around the street like a drunken idiot, vandalizing property, and hurling invective (or worse) at people you don’t even know. I wonder how much a better place the world would be if these conceited assholes would put down the signs and devote their energies to actually helping those around them?

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Post #: 20

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