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Torn About Fluid Transfer - 4/3/2009 3:13:59 AM

HeavansKeeper

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I have a very strong fear of STD's. Yeah - Some are curable, but I don't care. I like being D&D Free. (Not judging people who aren't)

My problem is resentment. This life choice of mine excludes me from potentially amazing things in life, which makes me resent my choice. Orgies and gangbangs and casual play partners... The main reason I don't engage is not the relational/trust/love/sacred sex aspects. It's purely biological. But I've grown bitter about this. Today I was watching a video about... How can I explain this? Imagine a bachelorette party where the girls fucked male stippers. That. I watched that. And it made me queasy. Queasy and resentful and judgmental and jealous and unsatisfied and proud. It was a very twisted feeling.

The cost of living a life minimizing risk is minimizing fun which is linked to risks. That's fine. But then I see/meet a woman and learn about her wild sexual past. And the saying "When you sleep with her, you've slept with everyone she's slept with" rings in my head. And I think "Great... What the fuck do I do? If I take her into my life, I might as well have been a slut myself for 20 years."

I don't know... I feel I'm making the responsible choice. I also feel like I'm missing out in a big way. There are a few ways to reconcile this discrepancy, but the thought of what I'm skipping makes me... curious and angry. I've never really had such strong emotional swings before. It's a special feeling.

Anyone else struggling with similar choices?

tl;dr: fluid family plz, kthnx.

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Post #: 1

RE: Torn About Fluid Transfer - 4/3/2009 3:18:16 AM

simpleplan2

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Joined: 7/5/2008
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So wear a condom. I mean, I know it's not a perfect solution, but it's something. You've gotta decide what's going to bother you more.

(in reply to HeavansKeeper)

Post #: 2

RE: Torn About Fluid Transfer - 4/3/2009 3:27:05 AM

ranja

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Joined: 11/1/2007
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I would like to go to a club sometime...just recently i saw a program 'sexcetera' and they had a report on the club Wasteland in Amsterdam and this girl that was interviewed said that you had to take care not to touch the walls on account of all the spunk sticking to it...
that put me off enormously...what a pity...
but now I think i would be ok if i wear my long black silky gloves and refrain from liking the wallpaper...

(in reply to HeavansKeeper)

Post #: 3

RE: Torn About Fluid Transfer - 4/3/2009 4:04:12 AM

RumpusParable

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeavansKeeper

Honestly, it sounds like you're working yourself up for nothing... blowing it out of proportion. Nothing you mentioned there couldn't be overcome by simply doing it by A) not exchanging fluids (condom) and/or B) getting STD testing done before losing the condoms.

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Post #: 4

RE: Torn About Fluid Transfer - 4/3/2009 6:08:29 AM

YoursMistress

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I understand what you mean. In a similar way, I am fascinated by the sensations of sex for women, and have had many conversations trying to learn just how it feels for them. One of the things that frustrates me is hearing about how much some have enjoyed the sensation of the male orgasm inside of them. It makes me wish to be able to provide that sensation, but I struggle with not only the STD aspect but the possibility of pregnancy also. Certainly my fears regarding pregnancy are somewhat irrational, given the effectiveness of birth control methods. The only certain method of preventing both risks is abstinence, which I have been practicing. As a result, I feel the same resentments, disappointment and sense of lost opportunity that you described. I'm sorry that you feel it, for it's a persistent and frustrating ache.

yours

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As a rule, I don't like to make general statements.

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Post #: 5

RE: Torn About Fluid Transfer - 4/3/2009 6:43:39 AM

DomImus

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I feel I'm making the responsible choice. I also feel like I'm missing out in a big way.

You are and you are.

And the saying "When you sleep with her, you've slept with everyone she's slept with" rings in my head. And I think "Great... What the fuck do I do? If I take her into my life, I might as well have been a slut myself for 20 years."

The problem with that saying is that it assumes that everyone with a vibrant sexual history is a walking petri dish of STDs and that's just not the case. Promiscuous sex - particularly promiscuous unprotected sex - surely does involve some risks but I have never felt that those risks were as pronounced as we are often led to believe. If the "you've slept with everyone" adage paid off as often as we are led to believe I'd have surely dropped dead from some really nasty shit years ago yet I am still clean and green.

We all make choices out of fear for the consequences of our actions. I guess you just have to learn to buy into the choice.

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Post #: 6

RE: Torn About Fluid Transfer - 4/3/2009 6:48:33 AM

LadyPact

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HK, I'm very tired and can't get this out right. If you would like to speak on the subject, I will be more than happy to talk with you in private.

My best to you and yours.

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Post #: 7

RE: Torn About Fluid Transfer - 4/3/2009 6:59:19 AM

subangi

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The risks of STD's are a reality. The stats dont lie. I counsel people when they are positive for STD's.

(in reply to DomImus)

Post #: 8

RE: Torn About Fluid Transfer - 4/3/2009 7:02:56 AM

cantilena

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I agree with the other posters so far in the thread, fwiw, but I'd just like to add something relative to the feelings your expressing.

Yes, we make healthier choices all the time for ourselves, and sometimes those choices are a real drag.

Consider a giant hunk of quadruple-chocolate cake with whipped cream. (work with me.. lol) Now, you could choose to eat it, enjoy it, and such is life. The downside is that you've consumed something less healthy for yourself, consumed a bazillion calories and artery-busting saturated fat. If you choose to pass it up, or eat just a small bite, you've drastically reduced both the enjoyment and also the associated problems. It's counterproductive to be bitter about the chocolate cake you didn't eat because you want to be healthy.... it's just a choice.

I'd think about how to reduce the feelings you have about it rather than re-evaluate the choice itself. At least until you have a better understanding of what's really driving that degree of negativity.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 9

RE: Torn About Fluid Transfer - 4/3/2009 7:14:32 AM

chamberqueen

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Joined: 10/25/2007
From: Kalamazoo, MI
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I, too, have a fear of STDs and I can understand your point completely. Having sex with any new partner involves some risk. Do they have a disease? Will they suddenly turn on you and do something to hurt you? Will they blab to everyone they know about it, purposely distorting facts as they go? If you are already in a committed relationship, will the new partner become jealous and try to undermine that? There are many things that could go wrong besides sharing an STD.

I think it is easier for a man than for a woman because it is so easy just to put a condom on. A woman has to worry about whether he will actually keep the condom on the whole time (many men don't want to wear it when receiving head), if they will actually withdraw when they say that they are going to, etc. While taking on multiple partners in the movies may look very hot the woman's body experiences more trauma during sex along with the chance of minuscule broken blood vessels which let disease in more rapidly. Depending upon how she is used for the sex this could easily be in three main entrance places.

As with anything in life, you need to balance the risk against the desire. What may seem like a lot of fun in fantasy can have long lasting results in real life. I took a friend in once to help her get some birth control and only then did I learn that she'd had unprotected sex. The counselor looked at her and asked if removing the condom so that they could both feel things a little more intensely was really worth a death sentence. I was shocked at the harshness of the statement, but realized just how many STDs this woman must have seen. Sure, some people are very careful even with multiple partners and keep themselves very clean but all it takes is one person lying about being a carrier, or not yet knowing, and you can wind up in a big mess. Instead of allowing that to make you feel angry or frustrated I have found it easier just to accept it as a fact of life and to take the proper precautions when the situation comes up or to know that while it may be a fun fantasy that it is not always safe or healthy to live out all of our fantasies.

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Post #: 10

RE: Torn About Fluid Transfer - 4/3/2009 8:56:21 AM

Andalusite

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Keep in mind, condoms don't protect against Human Papilloma Virus (which causes genital warts and cervical dysplasia) or herpes as effectively as they do against HIV, Hepatitis, etc. It's better than nothing, but both are spread through skin-to-skin contact, they are not blood-borne. Also, there is no routinely available or inexpensive test for men for HPV, only the polymerase chain reaction blood test, which very expensive, most labs can't perform it, and is not usually covered by health insurance. The Digene Captive DNA Test is available for women (it is not approved for men), but has a fairly high rate of false negatives. Women under age 26 can be innoculated against some of the common strains of HPV, with Gardasil, but it doesn't protect against all strains, and is not approved for or available for older women or men.

(in reply to chamberqueen)

Post #: 11

RE: Torn About Fluid Transfer - 4/3/2009 10:43:48 AM

porcelain26

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Here's my question...are you resentful because you wish you had the 'care-free' attitude it takes to engage in casual sex, or are you resentful because you feel like you're not getting enough sex?

Will condoms protect from everything...nope, they sure won't. They, like anything else, are not 100%. However, the alternative creates a much higher risk factor, so they're still a good idea. I like the person who said to get tested for STD's prior to having sex, too...that's always a great idea. You can have wild-crazy-monkey sex with a monogamous partner that will mimick or outshine even the best orgies. And, you and said partner can go to clubs and stuff and screw your brains out, without ever having to be involved with anyone else, and still get the rush of having sex in front of an audience.

You haven't automatically choosen a 'sexually free' lifestyle...you've choosen a lifestyle which thrives on responsibility, awareness, and consent. Consider that when you're thinking about who you want to have sex with, how you want to do it, and what kinds of protection you want to use. Be responsible, make sure you're both open and honest enough that you're aware of potential risks, and make sure both of you are okay with those risks....and then have fun!

(in reply to Andalusite)

Post #: 12

RE: Torn About Fluid Transfer - 4/3/2009 11:02:01 AM

Kaiel

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Joined: 4/17/2007
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I too have a HUGE fear of std's... but that being said, I live a pretty "fun" life. My priority though in living that life is to 1. have all partners tested for all std's and HIV and in return I do the same for them. 2. Use condoms and dental dam etc.... when engaging in sexual activities. 3. Also as a licensed addiction counselor... drugs and alcoholism are deal breakers... so I make sure I get to know my partners and their behaviors as much as possible.

I enjoy having fun, but I have never had any D*ck worth dying for! Be safe, be aware and have fun.

(in reply to porcelain26)

Post #: 13

RE: Torn About Fluid Transfer - 4/3/2009 12:00:58 PM

YourhandMyAss

Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
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Birthcontrol can and does fail all the time, a friend of mine his wife got pregnant THREE TIMES ON BIRTHCONTROL. so I would not say your fears are irrational.

quote:

ORIGINAL: YoursMistress
, but I struggle with not only the STD aspect but the possibility of pregnancy also. Certainly my fears regarding pregnancy are somewhat irrational, given the effectiveness of birth control methods.

yours

(in reply to YoursMistress)

Post #: 14

RE: Torn About Fluid Transfer - 4/3/2009 12:26:13 PM

DavanKael

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HK,
I understand the quandry you are having.
I am very knowledgable and paranoid about STI's/STD's (Not all, just the particularly serious incurables, though I'd not like acquire any, if possible). Some of this is biological but, for me, it is also psychological/emotional.
I have been with fewer people than most folks that I know. The reverence within which I hold sexual union actually works well with not being particularly prolific. 'Course, after becoming separated and not having the ready access I always have had to sex with someone I love (Since I was 16 and with the exception of when my ex- was deployed) and not being someone who's just going to go out (Of, for that matter, simply make a phone call or drop a text) and get laid because I'm (sometimes wall-clawingly) horny sometimes presents a quite uncomfortable, displeasing mental and physical scenario. Taking care of business one's self just isn't the same. Willing to endure discomfort to retain closely and highly held ideals, however. Not judging others who make different choices. Still, it isn't easy when chastity reigns.
I make choices sometimes based on an amalgamation of those biological and psychological facets. The more connected I feel with a person, the fewer boundaries I wish to have between they and myself and rationality is minimized there. If the relationship is going poorly and I have made that choice, I notice I become more paranoid about such acquired illnesses. The relationship I was just in was with a person who's had fewer partners than have I and we did not use condoms with consistency. Is that what I wanted emotionally and phsyically with him? Yep. He seemed to enjoy himself as well. :> Now that that relationship is through, am I, somewhat disproportionally, paranoid about any issues that could have been transmissted? Sure am. Lack of logic reigns.
Anyway, I empathize but sometimes walking the hard road is precisely the right thing to do even when we know we are taking a path that causes some discomforts for ourselves.
Davan

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Post #: 15

RE: Torn About Fluid Transfer - 4/3/2009 12:34:49 PM

DemonKia

Posts: 5521
Joined: 10/13/2007
From: Chico, Nor-Cali
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Great thread, thanks for asking . . .. .

First off, BDSM play parties tend to have relatively minimal amounts of sex activity; in some venues sex isn't allowed under the rules . . . . . . & when it is allowed it's almost always required to be 'safer sex' -- usually with condoms & dams & such provided by the dungeon (& yes, those rules apply to those in monogamous & / or fluid-bound partnerships) . . . . . . .

Sexual activities do not necessarily equate to exchanging body fluids, especially when it comes to BDSM . . . . .

Personally, I find body fluids mostly pretty yucky & it enhances sex for me to know that they'll be controlled / contained . ... . lol

I have noticed that for some 'sex = body fluid exchange', it's just not the same for them without (the almost fetish-y desire for) body fluids . . . . . . In which case, they're stuck . .. *shrugs shoulders*

Intercourse (in whichever orifice) is only one of the sex offerings available from the menu . . .. .

Masturbation, mutual masturbation, dildos, vibrators -- none of those require fluid exchange . . . ..

So, as is often the case, part of this depends on how one defines 'sex' . .....

Oh, & there are such things as 'safer sex' orgies . .. . . lol

Best,
The Demon, Kia

(in reply to HeavansKeeper)

Post #: 16

RE: Torn About Fluid Transfer - 4/3/2009 12:44:58 PM

HeavansKeeper

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I've gotten a lot of helpful feedback, and I thank you for that. I was expecting more dismissive behavior. Even a few people who feel as I do, which is comforting, but I feel (obviously) for your state as well.

Like I said, I know there are alternatives which help meld the two lifestyles. I don't have unprotected sex with anyone who hasn't received all their tests. My Pet included. Maybe it's more than that. I may have understated the psychological effects of casual sex. It feels dirty, which isn't always a bad thing. It's a very powerful taboo, and very exciting.

The truth is, billions of people are having sex, and condoms are reducing rates of most STD's by drastic figures... But I don't want sex - I want sexuality. I've never had good oral sex with any sort of protection (dental dams being, by far, the most useless thing ever invented... Unless you're going down on a midget Asian girl.)

I suppose fantasy has glamm'd the thing up. When thinking about it, I see demons and succubi (in a good "red is sexy" sort of way). The truth is often not so wondrous... Just lots of people fucking.

I like the cake analogy. It helps put things in a spectrum for me. One the one side, confining myself from the human race. On the other, (to put it mildly) a thoughtless slut. The "healthier" options are closer to the center. Point is, I could move more left and right as I felt prudent. It helps explain the situation nicely, but its more objective measurement of "what is" than "why". Both are good, but I'm more concerned with why, right now.

Andalusite brings up a good point. While no one's doubting HIV is the worst of the STD's, there are others to consider. It also reminds me of my irrationality (which I hate). I KNOW that the transfusion rate of HIV through kissing is nil. Would I knowingly kiss someone with HIV? No. I'd feel a little clammy after shaking their hand. I know... I am 100% aware that I will not get HIV by shaking that person's hand, but the response is automatic. I'm ashamed of it, and the discord between brain and mind bothers me immensely. I feel bad that I discriminate in that regard =/. I was once petting a friends cat and said "Your cat looks kind of sick.." I was told "Oh, he has FIV... It's like AIDS, for cats.... But don't worry, it doesn't transmit to humans." You know how people kind of chew their tongues when in complete disbelieve of the situation. Yeah, that. I was worried enough to call my vet and get her professional opinion on the matter. Turns out my friend was right, by the way. But I worried... After every exposure I worry. I worry in the back of my mind until I get objective results. I would not enjoy the three months wait after an orgy to get an HIV test. That alone is prohibitive.

Porcelain is 100% correct. Having a trusted, fluid-bonded partner(s) is wonderful. Especially with the M/s dynamic, in which I can have whatever I please, whenever I please. I'm in a long distance relationship now... So maybe I am just resentful of not having enough sex. That could be tipping the scales into "being torn". But even so, this is an issue I play with at length. I love cuckoldry fantasies for my girl, also lending/renting her. Very hot... In theory. This thread is also helping me firm up my stance on those issues. a large part of me does wish I had a care free attitude about sex, yes. The part of me which is overly understanding about sexual wants. I don't judge on kink. Not bragging, but I would be surprised to meet someone more understanding of others ethical sexual wants. (Although, here on an informed BDSM community board, I'm probably close to the average =P). Anyway - That part, the understanding part, clashes with the not-care-free attitude about sex. You also suggest a possibility I didn't really consider... Public sex, but in our fluid family. That's a good meeting point.

I've written a lot here, mostly response. My question is: For those who engage in more open sexuality than me, how do you do it? How do you justify it? (That one sounds mean, but it's not... I mean "how do you satisfy both urges, safety and numbers?"

I'm ok with hearing "I just don't care." That's a life choice similar to mine, just on the other side of the spectrum.

_____________________________

The Loving Owner of HisHeavan

... You've waited your whole life for this moment...

(in reply to HeavansKeeper)

Post #: 17

RE: Torn About Fluid Transfer - 4/3/2009 2:50:05 PM

Vanityfull

Posts: 196
Joined: 3/6/2009
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a night of unprotected promiscuos sex and hard drugs is crazy fun! but waking up with a crack addiction or hepC would really suck, its all about how much risk you want and feel confortable with, being safe and abstaining from everything is great but if that bugs you and you feel it doesnt let you have as much fun as you want you might want to take a few risks, alot of people have gone threw a "slut phase" and may or maynot be desiese free becuase of it, i personally dont care if someone has been down the block a few times or not, if i trust them when they say they are clean then i will sleep with them, if i get a bad vibe of somesort i will back off, STDs are pretty taboo by our society and if someone shady wants to have sex they will act more on lust rather then rightfully stating their health, and when booze or drugs are involved its even more risky as someone will be way more into sex rather than meantioning that little hiv thing they have as being fucked up can blur morality and increase the sexdrive,

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Post #: 18

RE: Torn About Fluid Transfer - 4/3/2009 3:09:32 PM

kiwisub12

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OP - if you are worrying about multiple diseases, from multiple partners - including animals, then it sounds to me that your worrying is counterproductive. It isn't accomplishing anything other than making you miserable. To be so worried about catching something from petting a cat that you called your own vet is a bit out there.

And worrying about catching AIDS from shaking someones hand isn't an automatic thing - its a learned behaviour - and as such can be broken.

Might it be possible that your discontent with your fluid transfers is more of discontent with something else - partners, life direction etc etc. I had a very wise man once tell me that worrying about something you can't change is your subconscious misdirecting you from something else that you should be looking at. And you have to admit , your worrying seems a bit out of control. It seems to be making you miserable in general.

(in reply to Vanityfull)

Post #: 19

RE: Torn About Fluid Transfer - 4/3/2009 4:17:13 PM

LovingMistress45

Posts: 271
Joined: 2/7/2009
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I think it depends on how you define sex. I don't engage in intercourse with casual partners. However there are alot of things that can be enjoyed. And being the rather selfish dominant that I am, I don't feel a need to reciprocate. Actually if I am meeting with a malesub for a scene, I tell them up front they are not getting sex and that includes oral. Now, under those conditions I have numerous men wish to give me oral - and I don't turn it down, but I still don't give in return. If they are lucky I will let them masturbate, and if I am really generous I may give them a hand job or do anal play. As someone else mentioned toys are great and don't require fluid exchange.

I have had a very full sex/bdsm life with very few that I exchanged fluids with. It is how you define what you want.

(in reply to kiwisub12)

Post #: 20

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