Is it time to care?

Is it time to care? (Full Version)

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TheHeretic -> Is it time to care? (4/4/2009 8:37:10 AM)
Compared to some of the acts of extremism by Islamic Crazy People in recent years, this is a bit of fluff, but it made the LA and NY Times. Are the human rights abuses of the Taliban and such going to start mattering to people who have mostly been ignoring them? Pakistan Flogging Video Gets Noticed

CruelNUnsual -> RE: Is it time to care? (4/4/2009 8:42:51 AM)
You must have missed the press release. they are no longer referred to as "human rights abuses", they are "Overseas Cultural Enforcement Procedures".

FullCircle -> RE: Is it time to care? (4/4/2009 11:12:57 AM)
Well the benefit of when something is done out in the open is that you can criticise it.

Vendaval -> RE: Is it time to care? (4/4/2009 11:15:28 AM)
The Taliban is a destructive, dangerous force no argument in that.

CruelNUnsual -> RE: Is it time to care? (4/4/2009 11:39:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FullCircle Well the benefit of when something is done out in the open is that you can criticise it. Try criticizing it there.

FullCircle -> RE: Is it time to care? (4/4/2009 11:43:34 AM)
Actually you'll find many in Pakistan do just that.

CruelNUnsual -> RE: Is it time to care? (4/4/2009 11:48:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FullCircle Actually you'll find many in Pakistan do just that. And you'll not find many of those you'll find.

FullCircle -> RE: Is it time to care? (4/4/2009 12:07:36 PM)
.....Biscuits? Rumour has it they play the occasional game of cricket how more civilised can a nation be I ask? You know what they say.... 'You can't change the world by preaching to the converted.'

TheHeretic -> RE: Is it time to care? (4/4/2009 1:19:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FullCircle Well the benefit of when something is done out in the open is that you can criticise it. What a crock of poppycock, Full. There have been a number of far more brutal atrocities that came into the open in the last five-ish years without catching a bit of front page attention in the US media. Now that a Democrat is back in the White House, the left, who should have cared all along, are willing to acknowledge it. That is my opinion, anyway. If others have a better theory on why it has been shrugged at, please let me know.

kdsub -> RE: Is it time to care? (4/4/2009 1:44:01 PM)
OK...what is the alternative?...The only way is by force..not withholding money in aid. Same with the rape law in Afghanistan. So we either call up the reserves...reinstall the draft... invade that part of the world with the aid of India and wipe them out and start over with the children...OR...give a little ...and hope we can beat them piecemeal. If we take the first alternative then we will also need to enlist Israel and take Iran then Syria...all the time keeping our eyes on Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Indonesia. It is the only way... otherwise stop complaining and live with reality. Butch

DomKen -> RE: Is it time to care? (4/4/2009 1:44:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: FullCircle Well the benefit of when something is done out in the open is that you can criticise it. What a crock of poppycock, Full. There have been a number of far more brutal atrocities that came into the open in the last five-ish years without catching a bit of front page attention in the US media. Now that a Democrat is back in the White House, the left, who should have cared all along, are willing to acknowledge it. That is my opinion, anyway. If others have a better theory on why it has been shrugged at, please let me know. Actually its confirmation bias. You believe that leftists ignored what was happening the last 8 years therefore you weigh more heavily things that confirm your bias but discount or don't recall contradictory evidence. On this matter for instance you can easily search this forum for my posts of disgust and outrage about religous extremists of all stripes long before 1/20/09. You could also of course check out the archives of the media outlets you consider leftists for articles on human rights abuses outside the US prior to 1/20/09.

TheHeretic -> RE: Is it time to care? (4/4/2009 4:01:27 PM)
Don't be ridiculous, Ken. Of course there have been voices in the wilderness on this, and I'm not suggesting otherwise, but they have fizzled out, time and again. I've raised the subject in these forums more couple times, so if you really want to go hunting through the archives, do feel free. Maybe go find the thread about the Iraqi village massacre by Al-Qaeda, or something on videotaped beheadings. Being concerned about these things might have been interpreted as supporting the Bush Administration, and we couldn't have that now could we? Besides, this is a long way from confirming what I think we will see. I'm just asking the question. Do you think these stories will become more widely exposed, Ken? Do you think a celebrity will pick up the cause? Will the offspring of some prominent leftist go make a hack documentary for HBO about how awful it is for women in these places? Will there a be certain color of ribbon to wear?

slvemike4u -> RE: Is it time to care? (4/4/2009 4:07:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual quote: ORIGINAL: FullCircle Actually you'll find many in Pakistan do just that. And you'll not find many of those you'll find. Really.....would you care to take the time to explain to the rest of us just what you mean here.....logic dictates that if you have found them....you have found them.....whatever the number might be.

FullCircle -> RE: Is it time to care? (4/4/2009 4:22:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: FullCircle Well the benefit of when something is done out in the open is that you can criticise it. What a crock of poppycock, Full. There have been a number of far more brutal atrocities that came into the open in the last five-ish years without catching a bit of front page attention in the US media. Now that a Democrat is back in the White House, the left, who should have cared all along, are willing to acknowledge it. That is my opinion, anyway. If others have a better theory on why it has been shrugged at, please let me know. So your argument is the leftist LA times are now highlighting the grim reality to show the Taliban as something that doesn't have moderate elements that can be reasoned with? Remind me how that squares up against the new policy of seeking out moderate Taliban? A bit strange perhaps if the LA Times is contradicting the democratic policy? How does this political bias reporting thing work again? The last thing on the previous administrations mind was atrocities by the Taliban let us be honest about the past and confirm that ousting the Taliban was just a welcome side effect of the main aim of removing training camps for terrorists and poppy fields from that part of the world.

popeye1250 -> RE: Is it time to care? (4/4/2009 4:39:48 PM)
If Hillary and President Obama think they can reason with those people they might as well try playing poker with a rattlesnake; they're going to get bit. They should know better, they're supposed to be educated people. More likely another "foreign aid" scam will be foisted upon them and the U.S. Taxpayer will get ripped off (again). East is East and West is West.

FullCircle -> RE: Is it time to care? (4/4/2009 4:50:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u quote: ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual quote: ORIGINAL: FullCircle Actually you'll find many in Pakistan do just that. And you'll not find many of those you'll find. Really.....would you care to take the time to explain to the rest of us just what you mean here.....logic dictates that if you have found them....you have found them.....whatever the number might be. He only need look in the original report to see people in Pakistan have the capacity for protest against things such as this. Sadly the moderate elements within Pakistan are not the ones that make headlines because they inspire no fear in the extreme right, opere citato.... ""This is intolerable," prominent human rights activist Asma Jahangir told journalists in the eastern city of Lahore."

FullCircle -> RE: Is it time to care? (4/4/2009 5:03:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 If Hillary and President Obama think they can reason with those people they might as well try playing poker with a rattlesnake; they're going to get bit. They should know better, they're supposed to be educated people. More likely another "foreign aid" scam will be foisted upon them and the U.S. Taxpayer will get ripped off (again). East is East and West is West. If you go east far enough you'll find yourself right back in the west. This way we divide up the world linking politics and geography is very antiquated. Like I said to the other poster the other month, most likely some members of the Taliban are people with no other options to explore. Talking to these people to undermine the movement from within is something worth trying and it wouldn't be the first attempt at divide and conquer. If we treat people as their stereotypes rather than as individuals we'll always assume they are all as extreme as one another which is probably not the reality.

CruelNUnsual -> RE: Is it time to care? (4/4/2009 5:17:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u quote: ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual quote: ORIGINAL: FullCircle Actually you'll find many in Pakistan do just that. And you'll not find many of those you'll find. Really.....would you care to take the time to explain to the rest of us just what you mean here.....logic dictates that if you have found them....you have found them.....whatever the number might be. Im not surprised I need to, it takes careful reading. "You'll find" as originally posted refers to recognizing that many Pakistanis protest not to actually "finding" them. And my reference was to the fact that many of those who do protest are never seen again.

FullCircle -> RE: Is it time to care? (4/4/2009 5:26:23 PM)
How many? Do you have a figure for that I mean are we saying people should be getting more than fifteen minutes of fame to confirm they are not being brutalised and disappeared by the democratically elected government of Pakistan. It's ignorant to think your part of the world is the only part that accepts legitimate protest against government policy and this isn't even government policy. I can't fathom where you are coming from on this one, do enlighten me.

CruelNUnsual -> RE: Is it time to care? (4/4/2009 5:33:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FullCircle How many? Do you have a figure for that I mean are we saying people should be getting more than fifteen minutes of fame to confirm they are not being brutalised and disappeared by the democratically elected government of Pakistan. It's ignorant to think your part of the world is the only part that accepts legitimate protest against government policy and this isn't even government policy. I can't fathom where you are coming from on this one, do enlighten me. Start with the assassination of Benazir Bhutto and persecution of Christians. You'll find paths to hundreds if not thousands of political murders.

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