RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP (Full Version)

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Jeptha -> RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP (4/4/2009 9:26:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LostandUnhappy

I need your help. I need to be guided in the right direction. What actions should I take? How can I win her back when she has no hope or interest?


Damn, that's tough!
I don't know if there is a quick fix.
It's taken me a long time to get my head around what it is that I want (and the fact that I can actually have it.)
Then - her desire for a dom may be someone who is very different from you in style and content.

Unfortunately, sometimes we all just have to learn from experience, and this may be one of those times.

That said, though, my only advice would be to think positive: hope for the best but don't have too many expectations.

I'd say, just be honest with yourself about what you do want from this, and then go for it. It's ok to enjoy whatever it is that you enjoy *(usual caveats about consenting adults, etc., apply) You have as much right to happiness as any other person. And the responsibility resides with you. Now how are you going to get there? Make a plan. Keep it simple! Simpler, goddamit! Be yourself...no, cancel that; be better than yourself. Try to be your best self. For example: don't make up any bullshit punishments unless you are really into that, or if it serves some actual purpose in your mind.

Ok, now how does she fit into that scenario?

Anyway, that's all I got.


* - edit to add; it's also ok to be unsure, or to want to try something without being sure if it is for you or not; to go slow and experiment. Meditation, keeping the right frame of mind, are all good and important, but experience is probably the best teacher.




LovingDom86 -> RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP (4/5/2009 7:35:39 AM)

I would be more than happy to talk with you (or both of you) in a more private setting.  I agree with the majority of ideas posted here, some are right on the spot!  If you can ignore the closed-minded ageists, you will be on the right track.

However, my two cents: Posting in a public forum such as this will produce a large quantity of responses, often varying dramatically in opinion.  You cannot, nor should not, attempt to take every one into action, though there is little harm in considering others' points of views.  My honest opinion is that it would be best for you to find a more singular source of input, a mentor as some may see it, to rescue you from getting lost in a sea of drastically varying responses.  I feel that you do have good intentions, and am glad to see that your girlfriend is somehow with you through all of this. 

Again, if you are interested in listening with an open mind, I would be more than happy to talk with you and/or your girlfriend about the situation.  There are a few things I think are still incredibly unclear for you, and I only hope to shed some light on the truth if it is out there. 

Regardless, I wish you both the very best. 




kiwisub12 -> RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP (4/5/2009 7:55:25 AM)

Seems to me your best bet as far as cultivating your domly spark is to get involved on a local level with the "BDSM scene", find someone whose opinion and style you respect and ask to be mentored. And take it from there.

As far as your long distance relationship - drop all pretenses of D/s, talk to her as a "real"  person, and develop a relationship that has more to it than D/s. If there is any interest in D/s on both parts, negotiate a contract, have both parties spell out what they want and need  - and STICK TO IT!!!!!!
Use your newfound insight, and be more than a fuckbuddy with fringe benefits.

and if your friend isn't interested in a D/s relationship - your're screwed. You can't dom someone who doesn't want that sort of relationship.




VeryNastyDom -> RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP (4/5/2009 8:00:17 AM)

She is obviously looking for something you are not, but may yet become.  At this point you may be competing with a fantasy, which is a bit unfair to you, but that is where her head is at.  She obviously needs/wants a certain level of control that you are not providing, and either you are comfortable turning it up a notch or not.  Ask any of the very experienced Masters on here and they will tell you that the person they are today is not the one they were when they first started into the lifestyle.

You can learn and you can grow into a different person if you are wired properly in your head; unfortunately only you can evaluate that.  However, even if you are ready and willing to take that step both you and she must realize that it is not an overnight transition and she must be willing to hang in there for the length of time it takes.  It is not clear from reading your posts that she is and that is the threshold question that you must address first.  You seem motivated on some level to do what it takes, but is she?  You need to get that issue out on the table and resolve it, and you need to move from a mostly on-line relationship to one that is face-to-face and highly interactive.  Only then will you figure out if this was meant to be. 




chamberqueen -> RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP (4/5/2009 8:35:32 AM)

OP, you can start with some good books like The Loving Dominant and Different Loving.  Feeling that you have dominant tendencies is much different than knowing how to be a Dominant that can cultivate fulfillment in the life of their sub.  Yes, part of it is about you being pleased, but if her needs aren't getting me then she has no reason to stay.  If they are only being met part of the time then she will be hurt and confused.

If her need is to have a variety of punishments, look for new ways.  Or, take time to figure out why she needs to be punished at all.  Is she acting out for some reason?  Cultivate open conversation between the two of you, and really learn her fears and desires. 

Get out to a local scene and talk with other subs about the things that they like most and least about their roles.  You will learn a lot.  Sometimes very small things that Doms do can make an incredible impact on a sub, especially if a sub is in a position where they don't know which choice to make to finish a task completely.  If they are doing their absolute best yet it does not get recognized, and sometimes even punished, then it can be devastating for them.

Don't allow arguments any more. Allow calm conversations.  There is no reason for the escalation unless you are not in control of yourself.

Just enjoying giving orders does not make one a dominant.  A good Dom will truly care about what is going on in the mind of their sub, will enjoy training her, and will be able to get the best from her.  It goes a lot deeper than just enjoying being in charge.




sublace -> RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP (4/5/2009 9:30:21 AM)

simply   {{{ HUGS}}}




antipode -> RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP (4/5/2009 10:27:05 AM)

quote:

I said in my post that if you have nothing helpful to say, dont bother


Your little sentence, in response to a completely innocuous question, should give you a mirror as to where you need to look to "better yourself". Had you simply answered the question, sincerely, you might have had some advice to look at. But from your uncouth response it is clear you only want to hear what you want to hear. That means your mind is closed, and that means you're not going anywhere, in your quest.

I should add, as well, that respect appears to not be in your vocabulary. This is an open forum, and anybody can say what they like, it is not your decision. What you did there is highly manipulative, and perhaps that is another area you might look at. Rolling off your personal problems on your sexual orientation is not an unheard of escape mechanism.




DavanKael -> RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP (4/5/2009 10:27:58 AM)

I thought there was a lot of self-insight in the OP but also saw some impatience and passive aggression in reply posts. 
I think that looking at interactonal dyanmics and your relational skill-set is really, really important.  People have fabulous ideas about what relationships entail and they often haven't got the tiniest thing to do with reality.  People also tend to over-complicate the parts of relationships that don't need them. 
I'd say real-time, real-work.  I think individual and couple work needs to be done, probably with a professional. 
Best wishes,
  Davan




antipode -> RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP (4/5/2009 10:28:51 AM)

quote:

Speaking of mentors, could someone enlighten me on them?


Like therapists, mentors are the people who tell you what you don't want to hear.




RealSub58 -> RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP (4/5/2009 12:09:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LostandUnhappy

The fact that most of this takes place online doesn't help either -

I know its a lot to read, but its imperative that you fully understand my situation before you offer your advice.


I have not read through this thread and do not apologize for it.
I am willing to bet there will be some caustic remarks and some constructive material.
 
I feel your pain.  I am also going to assume you created this screen name for this particular need.  I will not question your need for confidentiality.
 
I see that you are 20? and this "relationship" started 2 years ago at the tender age of 18.  How old is the female?
I am going to say she is older than you?
 
I guess I feel your pain the most because I tried a long distance (1000 miles) "relationship" with a man who had just gone through (I found out later) a rocky load with an experienced submissive, bottom, very opinionated and strong woman.
 
What he had "failed" in, according to her, he thought he fixed.  I can say this now, he never fixed himself and I was too "eager" to recognize it.  I met him online, met him within 2 weeks and we then were online, in person and on phone. 
 
Age is no discriminator of persons but life experience is a good thing.   
 
I want to say that the fact that you have not cast the female in a bad light is a very mature thing.  Blame is usually always pointed toward the other.  You have taken responsibility.  But still as imperative as it was for you to share all the facts, there are still facts unshared and there is no reason to give information you cannot. 

Submissives as well as dominants can help shed some light on your situation. But no one can help unless she is also willing to be helped. 
Holding onto something that died is like walking about with a ball and chain upon your neck or the monkey scratching at your back.

Online is where this all gets muddy. Some/many will disagree with me, but I will say, just from the content of your plea, you need to drop online and develop something healthy about yourself in real time.
 
After my LDR, online, on phone, in text "relationship; I swore off any chatroom, online, messenger chatting. It has been almost 3 years and I am healthier for it.  Online does not equip us for our daily real time lives.
 
We seem to develop a "second life" with online relationships and develop them very differently than we would if in real time.  Mingling your real time personality with your online personality makes for a third personality.  I believe those who are deeply involved with "second life" might agree. 
 
My Sir has mentored many a dominant in different issues, problems and concerns through his many years in WIITWD.  He might be willing to share a few suggestions.  If you wish me to ask it of him, leave me cmail. OK?
 
You cannot have peace until you have all the pieces.




InTonguesslave -> RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP (4/5/2009 12:55:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: LostandUnhappy

it seems I failed to deliver... I would try to be more... I tried to convince her that I had finally seen the light...


Just my opinion, but, uuh, the whole dynamic here seems to be backwards. Your portrayal is of a "slave" who knows how to keep a "Master" in his place, at her feet, groveling and trying to please her.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: LostandUnhappy

 
I have the dominating spark of a Master inside me

Do you really? Not to dispute it, but...
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: LostandUnhappy

 
but she cant see it, and I don't know what I can do to show her. Every time I attempt, she is either unphased or questions my motives - claiming my feelings aren't genuine and I'm only doing them for her and not for myself.

Well unh, isn't she right? I mean, you obviously enjoyed the "role" of Master and want to have it again, but you're dancing to her tune, which pretty much precludes it being anything but a fantasy.
 
Okay, so, you asked for advice. You need to get the hook out of your gut. I don't mean turn hard and cold and stop caring. But damn, you can't let yourself be danced around at the end of a string like this. Where is your self-respect?
 
You have allowed yourself to cross a serious line here. You need to step back, state clearly both the depth of your caring for her and also your terms, being fully prepared to lose the relationship if necessary. Because if you are unwilling to risk losing her, you will surely lose yourself.

 
Easier said than done, I know. But mastery starts with you mastering you. Good luck.

 
K.
 
 
 
 



i think you need to read this again and take note. 

If youre sub is leading the relationship through her emotional reactions to you then you need to take a hold.  if she is feeling that she can manipulate you emotionally then she will make herself unhappy, a sub does not want to lead the relationship but she will, even though it is against her desire to do so.

i made myself unhappy last week, i spun away from Sir and convinced myself that i wasnt where i wanted to be.  he told me that i had a choice, to either accept how things were or find myself another Master (boiled down version). i told him that i didnt want to find myself another Master.  we have spent the weekend rebuilding, reestablishing and reinforcing.

the point of telling you that is that you possibly need to face her with the option of - 'its over or we work this through'.

she cant keep pushing you and you cant keep getting pushed, it will unravel everything.

she doesnt want to push you, its against her nature to do so = it makes her unhappy.

you dont want her to push you = it makes you unhappy.

solution - read the above.




xxblushesxx -> RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP (4/5/2009 1:08:30 PM)

I think both the op and his girl should explore other aspects of bdsm. Perhaps she could try being the one in charge for a while, and he could try the other side of the whip.
I only say this because I sense strong submissive tendencies in the op.
There is nothing wrong with being submissive. It's just another side of the same coin.
I do appreciate the fact that you acknowledge that at first you thought being a master would be "relationship made easy".  It's totally the opposite, isn't it?

Good luck to you guys!




kirby104 -> RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP (4/5/2009 1:17:58 PM)

This is the most eloquent intelligent response ever; and it's so true!




DesFIP -> RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP (4/5/2009 2:47:09 PM)

Waves to blushy. Where you been for so long?

I think the OP needs to stop focusing their chats on sex, and start helping her get control of her life. Meaning focusing on her working on her school work, getting enough sleep, eating right, etc. And he needs to be able to lead by example.

So when he says he expects her to turn off the tv and study from 7-11, he better be doing the same. If he demands she gets B's, then his grades need to be B+ or higher. Put them on the same team, by studying at the same hours, with the same goals, signing back on to say good night and both go to sleep.

It can't be do as I say, not as I do. Nor can it all be fun and games. If he hasn't been keeping his word, then she's right not to submit to him.




LovingDom86 -> RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP (4/5/2009 3:27:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: antipode

Like therapists, mentors are the people who tell you what you don't want to hear.



Very wise, and very true words.

An open mind (and ears) is the first step to any sort of growth. 




LostandUnhappy -> RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP (4/5/2009 4:28:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LovingDom86

I would be more than happy to talk with you (or both of you) in a more private setting.  I agree with the majority of ideas posted here, some are right on the spot!  If you can ignore the closed-minded ageists, you will be on the right track.



That would be wonderful! Thanks alot! :) I will send you my email address, and we can work it out from there.

quote:

simply   {{{ HUGS}}} 


Thanks! [&:] 

 
quote:


I have not read through this thread and do not apologize for it.
I am willing to bet there will be some caustic remarks and some constructive material.
 
I feel your pain.  I am also going to assume you created this screen name for this particular need.  I will not question your need for confidentiality.
 
I see that you are 20? and this "relationship" started 2 years ago at the tender age of 18.  How old is the female?
I am going to say she is older than you?
 
I guess I feel your pain the most because I tried a long distance (1000 miles) "relationship" with a man who had just gone through (I found out later) a rocky load with an experienced submissive, bottom, very opinionated and strong woman.
 
What he had "failed" in, according to her, he thought he fixed.  I can say this now, he never fixed himself and I was too "eager" to recognize it.  I met him online, met him within 2 weeks and we then were online, in person and on phone. 
 
Age is no discriminator of persons but life experience is a good thing.   
 
I want to say that the fact that you have not cast the female in a bad light is a very mature thing.  Blame is usually always pointed toward the other.  You have taken responsibility.  But still as imperative as it was for you to share all the facts, there are still facts unshared and there is no reason to give information you cannot. 

Submissives as well as dominants can help shed some light on your situation. But no one can help unless she is also willing to be helped. 
Holding onto something that died is like walking about with a ball and chain upon your neck or the monkey scratching at your back.

Online is where this all gets muddy. Some/many will disagree with me, but I will say, just from the content of your plea, you need to drop online and develop something healthy about yourself in real time.
 
After my LDR, online, on phone, in text "relationship; I swore off any chatroom, online, messenger chatting. It has been almost 3 years and I am healthier for it.  Online does not equip us for our daily real time lives.
 
We seem to develop a "second life" with online relationships and develop them very differently than we would if in real time.  Mingling your real time personality with your online personality makes for a third personality.  I believe those who are deeply involved with "second life" might agree. 
 
My Sir has mentored many a dominant in different issues, problems and concerns through his many years in WIITWD.  He might be willing to share a few suggestions.  If you wish me to ask it of him, leave me cmail. OK?
 
You cannot have peace until you have all the pieces.



Your words are kind and leave an imprint. You've definitely hit close to home.
Now that I think about it, things are alot different in real life, especially between us. They are definitely better.
I find myself confused and lost online, and it's easy for her to misunderstand me when she can't hear the inflection in my voice or read the expressions on my face. I think that we've sucked all the tolerance we had out of this online relationship and we're both ready to be together permanently. She agrees with me on this.

We've stretched our online relationship so thin, and everyday is the same routine. This smiley actually comes in handy here...

 
[sm=beatdeadhorse.gif]

Your advice rings so true, and its definitely a huge part of the solution. I think once we're together physically, and with the proper guidance (in relation to LovingDom's offer as well as the other suggestions of books and munches), I think we could fix this.

Thanks for your encouraging words and your wisdom. [:)]




LadyPact -> RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP (4/6/2009 1:13:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LovingDom86

I would be more than happy to talk with you (or both of you) in a more private setting.  I agree with the majority of ideas posted here, some are right on the spot!  If you can ignore the closed-minded ageists, you will be on the right track.



Ah, so automatically anyone who points out the OP's age and the immature way the relationship has been handled over the past two years is an ageist.  Got it.  Thanks for clearing that up.

So, if the OP was older, and he was being called on the pathetic way he handled this dynamic, what would you say then?




LovingDom86 -> RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP (4/6/2009 7:06:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Ah, so automatically anyone who points out the OP's age and the immature way the relationship has been handled over the past two years is an ageist.  Got it.  Thanks for clearing that up.

So, if the OP was older, and he was being called on the pathetic way he handled this dynamic, what would you say then?



I am certainly not immature enough to reduce myself to sarcastic, tongue-in-cheek comments and personal squabbles on other people's threads.  The OP was mature and insightful enough to post here in the first place instead of blindly continuing said "pathetic" behavior, and I am choosing to see the good in the situation and making an effort to help, rather than make snide comments to further break him down. 




OsideGirl -> RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP (4/6/2009 7:31:28 AM)

My first thought while reading the OPs post was "This isn't BDSM problem, it's a relationship problem".

I saw these in you original post:

quote:

I could tell her to do anything and she would do it for me, every guy's dream right?

I just continued along for the ride and the whole Dom/sub thing just seemed like a "relationship-made-easy" to me.

However, once again seeking the easy way out, most of these resolutions were promises of a better tomorrow that I never delivered.

and I just kept putting it off


Relationships require effort and need to be constantly maintained, sounds like you didn't.

Next:

quote:

Hurtful things we would have never said to each other in the early days became a regular part of our arguments.
Something to remember is that you can apologize for saying terrible things, but you can't ever make them "unsaid". Once said, they never go away. So, perhaps keeping a handle on your tongues would be a good place to start. (Sounds like you're both guilty of this)

quote:

She began to question whether or not I ever actually wanted to be her dom, and that my shortcomings were evident in my lack of creativity and spontaneity when it came to my Masterly duties.
Has she ever been in a full time D/s relationship? Have you ever sat down and discussed her expectations? Because it sounds like she might be a little unrealistic. Seriously, a full time D/s relationship is made up of 95% vanilla activities. I don't expect Master to be in Dominant Mode 24/7, it would be impossible.

quote:

How can I possibly express myself as a Master to someone who isn't interested in being my slave?
You can't. Only she can decide if you're her "Master". All you can do is pull your shit together and be yourself. Either she'll come around or she won't. Understand that actions always speak louder than words. You've been all words and no action.

quote:

underneath all of this messiness our bond is still there and I know we'll always be together. But being together isn't enough, I want us to be together AND be happy (go figure huh?). [&:]
The two of you have done so much damage to this relationship, I tend to doubt it. (That's coming from someone with a background in relationship counseling) Neither one of you has put in the effort, the communication or taken responsibility for what is happening.






dreamerdreaming -> RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP (4/6/2009 7:45:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

My first thought while reading the OPs post was "This isn't BDSM problem, it's a relationship problem".

I saw these in you original post:

quote:

I could tell her to do anything and she would do it for me, every guy's dream right?

I just continued along for the ride and the whole Dom/sub thing just seemed like a "relationship-made-easy" to me.

However, once again seeking the easy way out, most of these resolutions were promises of a better tomorrow that I never delivered.

and I just kept putting it off


Relationships require effort and need to be constantly maintained, sounds like you didn't.

Next:

quote:

Hurtful things we would have never said to each other in the early days became a regular part of our arguments.
Something to remember is that you can apologize for saying terrible things, but you can't ever make them "unsaid". Once said, they never go away. So, perhaps keeping a handle on your tongues would be a good place to start. (Sounds like you're both guilty of this)

quote:

She began to question whether or not I ever actually wanted to be her dom, and that my shortcomings were evident in my lack of creativity and spontaneity when it came to my Masterly duties.
Has she ever been in a full time D/s relationship? Have you ever sat down and discussed her expectations? Because it sounds like she might be a little unrealistic. Seriously, a full time D/s relationship is made up of 95% vanilla activities. I don't expect Master to be in Dominant Mode 24/7, it would be impossible.

quote:

How can I possibly express myself as a Master to someone who isn't interested in being my slave?
You can't. Only she can decide if you're her "Master". All you can do is pull your shit together and be yourself. Either she'll come around or she won't. Understand that actions always speak louder than words. You've been all words and no action.

quote:

underneath all of this messiness our bond is still there and I know we'll always be together. But being together isn't enough, I want us to be together AND be happy (go figure huh?). [&:]
The two of you have done so much damage to this relationship, I tend to doubt it. (That's coming from someone with a background in relationship counseling) Neither one of you has put in the effort, the communication or taken responsibility for what is happening.





[sm=goodpost.gif][sm=agree.gif]

Edited to add: I also agree with Kirata, and others here. Who's domming who?

As it stands, she's domming you-   which would be fine if that's what both of you wanted.

OP: you may not want to hear the "negative" comments but paradoxically those are the ones that may be more constructive, or positive- if you would just open up your heart and mind to receive them. We have all been there, done that. Stick a fork in this D/s relationship, its done. Just learn what you can from it, and move forward.

If you do not learn better, you'll continue to make the same mistakes and fuck up your next relationship, and the one after that, etc. and on and on...

If I can think of anything better to say I'll come back to this thread, but bottom line:
Sometimes love, and/or whatever else you've got going for you, just isn't enough.

You can keep on going for years if you both want to, with a relationship that has already been ruined. But whatever you both can do to try to fix things may not be enough, so that you end up soldiering on for years in a deeply unfullfilling relationship that sucks the life out of both of you.

Sometimes ending it really is the best, most loving thing you can do for your partner and/or yourself.

Everyone should have maximum opportunity for self-realization or self-actualization, IMHO. Would you deny her the opportunity for true happiness and fulfillment? And how about your own? The two of you may not be able to find it with each other.
 
Quitting can be a good thing, sometimes. A way to learn and move forward.




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