RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP

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LadyPact -> RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP (4/6/2009 7:51:40 AM)
I don't consider this a personal squabble. I would have said the same to any so-called 'master' who was lazy for two years and lacked initiative in the dynamic. Let's look at this from another angle. I noticed on your profile that you happen to like gardening. I happen to like that, too, so let's run with that. If you plant a garden, there are certain things that you have to do in order for it to thrive. There's the weeding, the watering, in some climates the feeding of the plants. The learning how to keep small, furry creatures out of it in certain areas. Doing all of these things is most likely going to ensure that the garden does well. What happens when you don't? You could get lucky for a while that there will be enough rain to water it and enough nutrients in the soil to encourage growth. It may survive for a while, but it won't flourish the way it could have had you tended it. The vegetables will be smaller or there will be fewer blossoms on the flowers. There's also the possibility that nature won't be so kind and without lending it a hand, the garden dies. So, now the gardener comes along and complains about his wilted plants. He asks other gardeners why his garden failed. As another gardener, wouldn't you point out the fact that he did nothing to make it grow? Believe it or not, the same principle applies in D/s. Instead of watering and feeding (ok, yes, you have to do that for a submissive, too) there's some actual work to cultivating a dynamic. For that matter, there's some actual work to becoming a master as well.

manxcat -> RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP (4/6/2009 8:57:16 AM)
Lovingdom63, you did indeed begin the personal attack of ageism. And as LadyPact noted, it is indeed a factor. I have rarely, if ever seen her respond snidely, unless perhaps when unfairly attacked. Her advice is sound. edited to add: as is yours. Age is most definitely a factor in relationships. When we are young we (most of us) have little clue as to how simple words and actions can hurt our partner. I have looked hard at my own relationships when i was young and am appalled at my behavior on some occasions, though i was certain at the time i was being fair, honest, and all the things i should have been. I was not. Do i feel shame over it? Not at all. Why? Because i was young and had all the baggage of my upbringing and experiences. Have i grown since then? I truly hope and believe i have, through personal examination and advice from mentors of all kinds. Was it an easy journey? No, and it is not over yet, as i am still human. That said, OP, you have gotten good advice and best wishes from all the responders. Only time will tell if you can salvage the relationship, and make it grow. Mentors can be a good thing, but you must also sift through their advice carefully to apply it best to your (both of you) situation. Should you take some time on the other side of the kneel - perhaps that would do you well, as it did me. Is it viable to take the relationship to totally in person, without undue hardship? Financial or other stresses involved in that, can add to the stress of building a new foundation. And as many have said, building a foundation is what you need to do first, as people. I have seen many marriages and relationships fail because the people involved did not take the time to consider simple ( simple - not unimportant) things such as what each ones expectations were. Did they both want children. Would ones' career take precedence over the others'. Large expensive wedding or use that money for a down payment on a home. Who will control the finances. For me, i want to set the budget while he implements it day to day. Eat out or home cooked. Lots of social activity or little. There are so many variables that must be looked at and worked out. One suggestion i have often made to those who were considering splitting: Both of you make 3 lists. One for non-negotiables. Another for like and dislikes. And one for negotiable items. Then exchange these lists, and see where you can compromise, and find out whether the non-negotiables mesh or do not. Since you are shouldering the blame, it is up to you to take the first step, whatever that may be for you. Perhaps other questions should be: Why do you want this relationship to continue? Is it ego, familiarity, fear of being alone or not finding something like it again, fear of failure, or is it really love? Only you can answer that, and only after looking at all of it honestly. I wish for you both, that which is best for you both, whatever that may be. manxcat ________________ I would rather be vilified for doing the right thing than be praised for doing the wrong thing.

velvetears -> RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP (4/6/2009 9:29:47 AM)
i haven't read through all the posts so this may have been suggested before. Owning someone, being a Master, a dom is more than just enjoying having a devoted submissive doing everything you desire, eager to please you on demand, etc. Heck if that were true i would convert in a heart beat lol! imo it is a part of someones personality when they feel they are a "Master", it doesn't come from having a relationship with someone who behaves submissively towards them and they suddenly realize how wonderful and cool it is to be catered to and "discover" themselves. While they do look forward to their submissives pleasing them they also realize they need to cultivate and interact with their submissives on an M/s D/s level, they invest time and effort into them and also understand that their submissives need something back from them, it is reciprocal. A submissive who gives of herself, not having her own needs attended to will feel undervalued and loose heart pretty quickly. Good luck with resolving this issue, but my gut tells me it's more of a fun and games kind of exchange for you that brings you fringe benefits you enjoy rather than a way you want a relationship to function. Not saying thats wrong, just saying your needs are different from your subs and you simply can't fake it for her.

fantasy69maker -> RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP (4/6/2009 10:00:18 AM)
Just because she wants a Dom doesnt make you a Dom. Just because you enjoy the "easy ride" dosent make you a Dom in fact it nearly proves you are not. There is no disgrace in not being a Dom there is a LOT of disgrace in pretending to be what you are not.

Jeptha -> RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP (4/6/2009 11:29:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: antipode quote: I said in my post that if you have nothing helpful to say, dont bother Your little sentence, in response to a completely innocuous question, should give you a mirror as to where you need to look to "better yourself". Had you simply answered the question, sincerely, you might have had some advice to look at. But from your uncouth response it is clear you only want to hear what you want to hear. That means your mind is closed, and that means you're not going anywhere, in your quest. I should add, as well, that respect appears to not be in your vocabulary. This is an open forum, and anybody can say what they like, it is not your decision. What you did there is highly manipulative, and perhaps that is another area you might look at. ... quote: ORIGINAL: DavanKael I thought there was a lot of self-insight in the OP but also saw some impatience and passive aggression in reply posts. I think these comments may be very astute. I picked up on what they suggest also, but couldn't put it into words as well as they did. It's important to be able to take criticism. Even if you can only deal with it by giving yourself a "time out" so that you can consider it effectively and return to it later. If you don't happen to have that particular skill, it's not an easy one to acquire. It requires a lot of patience and practice (in my experience, at least.) It's something I feel like I've gotten better at, but am still working on.

LordShadow -> RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP (4/6/2009 11:47:48 AM)
It seems to me that the mistake made here is one that is quite common. I have to agree with those who have pointed out the reversal of the roles...that is what it looks like to me, no surprise. But, why is there a reversal of roles? Often times people take a look at the BDSM/TPE ways of life and its all very appealing. What is not understood in the beginning is the amount of work it takes to maintain such a relationship. The first thing that must occur is self reflection, and understanding onesself. If you are not in control of yourself and your life, you have a snowballs chance in hell of controlling someone else. Ever looked back and reviewed the events of your life and how you have come to be who you are? What kind of person are you? What kind of improvements would you like to make in yourself? Can you see yourself as others see you? Do you like what you see? These are questions you must ask and answer for yourself....BEFORE you wander into the world of sub/slave ownership.

Cdub2U -> RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP (4/6/2009 5:33:50 PM)
IMHO.... On-Line anything is a joke The Internet is a great place for like minds to meet... but an on-line relationship is NOT REAL. Get involved with a local group in your area and talk to Doms and subs to see what make a D/s or M/s relationship work.

Siouxzie3333 -> RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP (4/6/2009 8:48:38 PM)
We are not all cut out to be masters or submissives. I don't know that this has much to do with the problem though honestly. It sounds to me like this relationship is suffering to the point of no return. It doesn't really seem relevant to me that you're D/S or not, what is relevant is that you've both obviously hurt each other, yourselves, and your relationship greatly. I am a firm believer in working things out, but I do not believe it has to be done in the same way you trashed your relationship....together. It sounds like you both have lots to work on, if nothing more than learning about how to prevent your emotions from taking over and then ending up doing stupid things. By all means, stay away from each other for a while if not for good. Work out your issues. It's not even a D/S thing at this point but just a very dysfunctional relationship that I can assure you from my work with family relationships, will not work at this time. Stop being afraid to feel the pain and take the step toward a better way. Work out your issues separately, and if you're meant to be, then you will be. If not, then there are a million other subs out there....[&o]

sailorfrank -> RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP (4/8/2009 8:11:46 AM)
Lot of good advice here take what you will but choose wisely. A Master is work...keeping things fresh for himself and his slave as well. Training, going places, spending time together any way that is fun and refreshing. Go to munches sit in and listen to real people in the style and ask questions! That will help fill in a lot of points you are missing. And like others said..."Get Real" Real Life that is, you can never ever understand how nice it is to feel your hand spanking a bare ass and watching it turn red....Fun Stuff! You both met on-line and for your relationship to keep going you need it real. Real contact with another person!

masterlink65 -> RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP (4/12/2009 9:30:06 PM)
sounds like it didnt fully manifest from role play to lifestyle. if you two fight, that is not good. and other arrangements may have to be made.

Fitznicely -> RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP (4/16/2009 10:37:54 PM)
First off, I haven't read everything, so apologies for any reiteration. Second off, I've not been here for ages and it's good to see the same old names cropping up in this thread, as when I was last here. Advice: Mr OP.... We'll take as read the obvious regret that You wasted two years, accepting this girl's submission and using her for your gratification without bothering to explore the Dominant side of Your personality fully. There's plenty of good advice here, as well as plenty of the bickering I've missed so much, having been away for so long. What I'd say, is that unless You are in control of Yourself, You will never manage to control someone else. It's not about how hard You hit her, or how much You threaten her, it's about the trust and respect You command in her. You pissed that away. You say you're desperate to get that back. Good on You. What needs to happen is that Y/you need to meet up. You then have to show her that You are the one in charge...of Yourself. Don't try and be in charge of her. That won't work at this juncture. You need to work on Your own self-confidence, self-worth and have faith in Your ability to guide, protect and nurture this girl. No more arguing, no more pissing and moaning, no more self-pity. Suck it up, take a breath and just tell her You're starting over. Not BOTH of Y/you, just You. Your new attitude will (hopefully) gradually prove to her that she can once again put her trust in You. she wants to give You the gift of her freedom. Treat that with the deep respect it deserves. You haven't up to now, and it's COMPLETELY up to You to fix that. Arrange to meet regularly, if at all possible. Be more positive and firm in your communication online. There will doubtless be topics and conversation cues that You know will lead to an argument. Work on having the self-awareness to catch Yourself before it becomes an issue. There's more I could say, but I'll save it. Do let us know how it all pans out.

Leonidas -> RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP (4/17/2009 6:57:06 AM)
My Grandfather used to say you can't deliver from an empty wagon. Your problem is that your wagon is pretty empty right now. Look, anyone (well, just about anyone) can strap on some leather and head down to a play party and be Sir Lord Master Domly Dom for a few hours. That's just acting out a role. No different from cops and robbers or dungeons and dragons or your role-playing game of choice. It's sexy, and fun, and gets folks off. No harm, no foul. Living an every day life in a household where the expectation is that you are dominant, and one or more others are submissive to you is a different proposition entirely. In order to pull that off, you actually have to BE the dominant member of the household. If you aren't, it'll show, as you are finding out. Good place for you to start is to consider whether you really want to be the head of your household; to "wear the pants" as they used to say, and have other members of the household be subservient to you. In reading what you wrote, I didn't get that. What I got was that you were presented with a girlfriend who came predisposed to wait on you, and you just went along for the ride. If the answer is yes, your expectation is that you are going to be the master in your own house, start being the master in your own house. You don't need anyone's permission. Forget about the girl for a minute and take stock yourself, and your fitness to lead. Are you making good decisions? Are you confident in who you are, and what you're doing in life? If not, why would you expect that someone's going to submit to you, and follow your lead? They'd be an idiot. What you're encountering is very common. People often play up the "danger" of 24/7 D/s. In reality the biggest danger is probably disappointment when the new wears off.

RavenMuse -> RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP (4/17/2009 8:37:03 AM)
"Barking up the wrong tree"is a phrase that comes to mind. Actions speak louder than words and I don't care what the OP says he wants to be his actions clearly show he isn't. Two years he could see it going wrong and only when he is on the verge of loosing her does he finaly get off his ass and try to do anything constructive... or so he says. I see more of the same, stopgap measures His concern isn't to learn more because it is who he is... his concern is to learn more so she won't leave.... only going to happen if it isn't who he is but that 'being a Dom' is just a straw he is clutching at to save the relationship that he has systematicaly screwed up. Further shown by the fact he seeks someone to 'shape him'... nobody can make you into anything (unless it involves a bottle of chianti and some fava beans). They can only point you in the right direction, you have to do the work yourself. That includes looking at the negative responces rather than putting your fingers in your ears and singing la la la very loudly because those negative responces often hold constructive critisism about what you are doing wrong.... so you can work out what you need to do RIGHT! Yes I consider the OP a 'lost cause', someone who probably holds no potential to ever be a Dominant (A Top maybe, but you could train a monkey to be a Top!) so why am I wasting My time writing this post? Because he isn't the only one who reads these boards and hopefully others, maybe who aren't even posting, can learn from his fubar'ed situation.

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