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Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP - 4/4/2009 7:13:58 PM   
LostandUnhappy


Posts: 6
Joined: 4/4/2009
Status: offline 		Hey everyone.

Please forgive the emo-sounding name, but I truly am lost and unhappy right now.

My girlfriend and sub of two years and I have been having some issues lately, issues that have been bottled up for a long time and are now finally boiling to the surface. I'm in need of help from experienced doms who can help me better understand the mentality of my sub and to help me refine my own mentality so that I can be a better Master.

When I first met her online, she introduced me to the world of BDSM and I realized that its something in my life I greatly needed, but had been missing. Slowly, we developed a simple but loving dom/sub relationship. Those were the happier days. As time went on, she naturally began to expect more of me as a Master, and it seems I failed to deliver on a regular basis. At first, this whole Master thing was so comfortable to me - I would barely have to lift a finger and everything would be in check. I could tell her to do anything and she would do it for me, every guy's dream right?

Even when she came to first visit me physically, things we're wonderful. She was so into me and interested in exploring the world of BDSM with me, and yet being the stupid guy I was, I just continued along for the ride and the whole Dom/sub thing just seemed like a "relationship-made-easy" to me.

Time went on and we began to fight more frequently. Hurtful things we would have never said to each other in the early days became a regular part of our arguments. Typically we would be mad at each other for an evening or so, and resolve it before we went to sleep. However, once again seeking the easy way out, most of these resolutions were promises of a better tomorrow that I never delivered. They were temporary solutions, not permanent ones. I would tell her I would try to be more mature and open-minded, try to employ Masterly techniques in daily life more often... and I just kept putting it off.

We soon meet the end of our 2 years, and my once bright and eager slave had become bitter to me. Understandably she was becoming impatient with me failing to deliver. My punishments were boring and unimaginative, my orders and tasks ultimately meaningless and only used to re-affirm my Master position when I feared it was slipping. The weeks on end of constant temporary solutions and my failure to fully indulge in dominance while it was still ripe turned our relationship upside down.

Finally, after some research and introspection, I realized what things I needed to work on to better myself - at least to some degree. But it was too late for my sweet sub... she had given up on me being a Master, and had become very very unhappy with the entire relationship in general. She began to question whether or not I ever actually wanted to be her dom, and that my shortcomings were evident in my lack of creativity and spontaneity when it came to my Masterly duties. As hard as I tried to convince her that I had finally seen the light and was ready to fully take on the responsibility of being her Master, she didn't believe me and her unhappiness only grew.

Due to my own depression and weaknesses, my confidence and desires shrank with hers. It became harder and harder to try and express myself as a Master as she became less and less interested in the notion. Soon, it got ugly. We both began to adopt self-destructive habits in order to cope with our situation, which only made things worse for both of us. Now, its gotten so bad that she has lost all hope in me - and I cannot for the life of me think of ways to actively show how I'm improving when she doesn't even give me a second glance.

I just feel so caged and desperate. How can I possibly express myself as a Master to someone who isn't interested in being my slave? The fact that most of this takes place online doesn't help either - the lack of physical contact really makes it hard for me to intimidate or regulate disciplinary action. My orders fall on deaf ears, and my words - whether they express love, anger, or sadness - seem empty to her.



I need your help. I need to be guided in the right direction. What actions should I take? How can I win her back when she has no hope or interest?

I implore you, take this amateur dom and shape him into someone better. I have the dominating spark of a Master inside me, but she cant see it, and I don't know what I can do to show her. Every time I attempt, she is either unphased or questions my motives - claiming my feelings aren't genuine and I'm only doing them for her and not for myself. Well, I want to do this for myself AND her. I cannot be happy if she is unhappy, so I suppose this endeavor is both selfish and unselfish in nature.

I know its a lot to read, but its imperative that you fully understand my situation before you offer your advice. Feel free to ask me to elaborate on certain points, I will do my best to put my situation in perspective for you so you can lend me better aid.

Also, to those of you who are just going to tell me to give up or to look for a new sub - don't bother posting. Thats not the answer I'm looking for and I know with enough work on my part I can show enough improvement to win her back.

She and I have been through a lot together, both moments of pain and happiness - and underneath all of this messiness our bond is still there and I know we'll always be together. But being together isn't enough, I want us to be together AND be happy (go figure huh?).

I will be eternally grateful to all of you that help me with this. My biggest regret is that I didn't ask for the help I needed ages ago... but things are at the absolute worst and I am reaching out to all of you who can offer me solutions.


Thank you so much, and I hope this conversation to be long, in-depth, and very enlightening! 
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP - 4/4/2009 7:20:01 PM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline 		Ok, let me get this straight... you go on at length to describe a dysfunctional relationship, mutual unhappiness, your own issues and shortcomings... and your question is how to get her back?
 
Dude, you have bigger fish to fry.
 
John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to LostandUnhappy)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP - 4/4/2009 7:28:32 PM   
LostandUnhappy


Posts: 6
Joined: 4/4/2009
Status: offline 		I dont need to "get her back" perse. I never lost her. She still wants to be with me, but she's just highly unimpressed with my efforts so far. Anyway, I said in my post that if you have nothing helpful to say, dont bother.

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP - 4/4/2009 7:32:00 PM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		It sounds to me that she has already given up on your being her Master. If your orders fall on deaf ears and she won't give you a second glance, she has already released herself from your Dominance.

My suggestion is this, let her go and if you still want a D/s relationship start reading some books, attend munches and find yourself a mentor. D/s relationships are not every guys dream, they are not easy, they are not one sided. They are just like vanilla relationships and require that both parties get their needs met and that both people have a deep trust in one another.

It takes time to learn to be a good Dominant, it is not something that happens over night. It takes YEARS. She knew you were fresh when she got involved with you and she should not be shocked that only after a few years your having some rough spots.  Hell I've been doing this since I was 19 years old (I am 40 ish now) and I still run into things that I have not dealt with before.

Good luck,
~Lashra


_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”






(in reply to LostandUnhappy)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP - 4/4/2009 7:32:57 PM   
AngelGeena


Posts: 1324
Joined: 10/17/2008
Status: offline 		If it doesnt come natural to some extent, then maybe you shouldnt be in the role.  It also sounds like she's dictating quite a bit of it.

Also, don't post your problems on a public board if you don't want to get people's opinions.

_____________________________

Owned heart and soul, bound to MZ forever.

(in reply to LostandUnhappy)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP - 4/4/2009 7:32:59 PM   
smartalex


Posts: 50
Joined: 5/29/2008
Status: offline 		Focus on you first. You get healthy, then your relationships can be healthy. Doesn't really happen the other way around. 

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP - 4/4/2009 7:34:58 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		"The fact that most of this takes place online doesn't help either - the lack of physical contact really makes it hard for me to intimidate or regulate disciplinary action. My orders fall on deaf ears, and my words - whether they express love, anger, or sadness - seem empty to her."

Do you really want her back?

If so, you need to change the dynamic.  There is no way you can be a Master to her online at this point.  Is it worth it to you to simply take her somewhere for a weekend, and spend time where each of you is the other's focus? 

You need some time together to rediscover each other.  Online won't cut it.


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to LostandUnhappy)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP - 4/4/2009 7:39:10 PM   
LostandUnhappy


Posts: 6
Joined: 4/4/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: smartalex

Focus on you first. You get healthy, then your relationships can be healthy. Doesn't really happen the other way around. 


I am healthy. I've long since broken the chain of self-destructive habits and I actually pride myself on being the mature one out of the two of us. I've pointed out to her that I could make it with or without her, but I'd much rather it be with her. I haven't completely lost her - If I thought that I wouldn't have bothered posting this. There are still shreds of this relationship left, but I need some techniques and/or mentorship to salvage them.

Speaking of mentors, could someone enlighten me on them?

quote:

Do you really want her back?

If so, you need to change the dynamic.  There is no way you can be a Master to her online at this point.  Is it worth it to you to simply take her somewhere for a weekend, and spend time where each of you is the other's focus? 

You need some time together to rediscover each other.  Online won't cut it.


That actually makes alot of sense to me. Thanks for the help

Yeah, its highly evident that online doesn't cut for either of us. I would love nothing more than for us to just be together for good, our physical relationship seems so much better by default. Unfortunately, due to certain financial complications as well as other factors - its not really an option right now. I just wish there was a better way to go about this then just trying to hold her off until the next physical visitation.


< Message edited by LostandUnhappy -- 4/4/2009 7:42:37 PM >

(in reply to smartalex)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP - 4/4/2009 7:41:04 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Dude, you are twenty years old.  Let Me tell you what I read in your post.

You met a sub girl, on the net.  The whole Dom thing you decided was cool, especially when she did everything you said, worked hard to be a good girl for you, and tried to please you.  In the meantime, you did nothing but sit back and enjoy the fruits of someone else's investment. 

As time went on, the other person in this wanted to see you give something back.  A little imagination, a little creativity.  Maybe a little growth in your personal path for wanting to live this way.  During the two years, her resentment grew and grew because she saw no results from you.  In fact, in all of that lengthy post, not once did I see you mention anything that showed you made any investment of yourself.  Tell Me exactly what you did to be a Master that deserved such a girl?

Now, only after you've lost her, are you willing to make an effort.  Frankly, you pissed away two years of opportunity.  You seem to obviously know it, and I'm willing to bet she knows it, too.

Here's what you do.  Start being the Master she deserved in the first place.  Not in the attempt to try and win her back, but because you have a dedication to being one.  Get off your ass and do something that makes you an active participant on this path. 

(By the way, the next time someone calls Me an ageist, I'm directing them immediately to this thread.)


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP - 4/4/2009 7:44:07 PM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LostandUnhappy

I dont need to "get her back" perse. I never lost her. She still wants to be with me, but she's just highly unimpressed with my efforts so far. Anyway, I said in my post that if you have nothing helpful to say, dont bother.


The fact that you do not find anything helpful in my post is indicative of your problem.  The obvious eludes you.
 
John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to LostandUnhappy)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP - 4/4/2009 7:47:55 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		Feelings of caged-ness and desperation are not signs of emotional health.

Calm isn't necessarily a good sign either.  Sometimes the most healthy response to a situation is to fight like hell.

It seems to me as though you sunk a lot of your self-identity into this other person, and the two of you ground the relationship you had into little pieces.  This leaves you, having to reconstruct yourself, without this other person as your everything.  I am sure it hurts... a lot.  It seems like your only course of action, though.  You're not getting her back, and maybe you never had her, not really.

Congratulations on all the successful work on yourself you have already done.  Please continue doing it.


_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to LostandUnhappy)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP - 4/4/2009 7:54:44 PM   
LostandUnhappy


Posts: 6
Joined: 4/4/2009
Status: offline 		Apparently some of you aren't getting the message, and I apologize for I guess what was the fault of poor wording on my part in the initial post.

I haven't lost her, in fact we've been talking throughout the entire duration of this post and we're both observing your responses with great interest. She wants nothing more than to be happy with me, but she also wants me to prove myself. What I'm chiefly looking for is someone that can help me in the right direction and show me how to take both my creative energy and my dominant spark and express it. I have both, but I'm having alot of trouble expressing myself.

quote:

Congratulations on all the successful work on yourself you have already done.  Please continue doing it.


And thank you

< Message edited by LostandUnhappy -- 4/4/2009 7:55:30 PM >

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP - 4/4/2009 7:57:23 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		I guess i am reading something different than the others but it seems she wants to change you to be someone she imagines in her head with regard to the master she created in her mind. This isn't saying you don't have growth to do, but from what i am hearing, she is upset because you aren't doing what she wants you to do to be her Master.

Perhaps what you need to do is remove all traces of the relationship as a D/s concept and see if you two can exist as people in a relationship. As you grow into yourself and your understanding of what you want from women who you claim, you will begin to understand how to create the environment wherein you rule the roost, not the woman dictating to you what you should do to be a Master to her.

To me, a woman who is a Man's slave or submissive cannot teach a Man to be a Master or teach him how to do it "right."

Since you are so new to it all, you need to become your own Man within the concept of what you want in this type of relationship, and then you need to grow into the Man you want to become and you will be on to me better footing wherein the woman you claim isn't feeling off balance in a bad way.

However, i also think, based on what you have described, she needs to stop attempting to create the perfect master in her head but instead realize that there is a human factor involved. Finally, if you allow her to control you by guilt and anger and upsetness and recentment, then you have already lost the concept of being the Master.

Figure out what all of this means to you and more importantly where your needs, wants, desires AND capabilities are as a Man who is a Master of another -- WITHOUT her influence of determinations for you guiding you. You may find becoming your own Master, does so much more for you both.

angel

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP - 4/4/2009 7:58:51 PM   
KneelforAnne


Posts: 1011
Joined: 6/14/2006
Status: offline
I had all sorts of good advice that was rendered irrelevant by a later post by the OP...*grins*

So...I'll just send you good luck waves!

< Message edited by KneelforAnne -- 4/4/2009 8:05:52 PM >

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP - 4/4/2009 8:04:56 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LostandUnhappy

it seems I failed to deliver... I would try to be more... I tried to convince her that I had finally seen the light...

Just my opinion, but, uuh, the whole dynamic here seems to be backwards. Your portrayal is of a "slave" who knows how to keep a "Master" in his place, at her feet, groveling and trying to please her.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: LostandUnhappy
 
I have the dominating spark of a Master inside me

Do you really? Not to dispute it, but...
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: LostandUnhappy
 
but she cant see it, and I don't know what I can do to show her. Every time I attempt, she is either unphased or questions my motives - claiming my feelings aren't genuine and I'm only doing them for her and not for myself.

Well unh, isn't she right? I mean, you obviously enjoyed the "role" of Master and want to have it again, but you're dancing to her tune, which pretty much precludes it being anything but a fantasy.
 
Okay, so, you asked for advice. You need to get the hook out of your gut. I don't mean turn hard and cold and stop caring. But damn, you can't let yourself be danced around at the end of a string like this. Where is your self-respect?
 
You have allowed yourself to cross a serious line here. You need to step back, state clearly both the depth of your caring for her and also your terms, being fully prepared to lose the relationship if necessary. Because if you are unwilling to risk losing her, you will surely lose yourself.
 
Easier said than done, I know. But mastery starts with you mastering you. Good luck.

 
K.
 
 
 
 

< Message edited by Kirata -- 4/4/2009 8:26:47 PM >

(in reply to LostandUnhappy)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP - 4/4/2009 8:07:22 PM   
LostandUnhappy


Posts: 6
Joined: 4/4/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KneelforAnne


I had all sorts of good advice that was rendered irrelevant by a later post by the OP...*grins*

So...I'll just send you good luck waves!


Aw well I liked your post anyway  Thanks for being kind and helpful!

(in reply to KneelforAnne)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP - 4/4/2009 8:30:57 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LostandUnhappy

Apparently some of you aren't getting the message,

Yeah, we are.  You're sub to her, and she's sub to a figment of her own imagination.  That is why I said you never had her in the first place.  I talk to people all the time.  That doesn't mean they are mine.

If the two of you want any chance together, throw the Master/slave stuff out the window, and go on a date as human beings.  See what progresses from there.


_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to LostandUnhappy)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP - 4/4/2009 8:31:12 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline 		Well without input from her who knows how helpful peoples advice will be. After 2 years maybe she feels that she needs more than an E-relationship, or maybe she just needs to get laid. Knowing how often you physically see her might help people get a better picture. As for learning more about BDSM, when has education ever been a bad thing, hopefully there are munches and classes in your area that can help you.

(in reply to LostandUnhappy)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP - 4/4/2009 8:47:07 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		On-line and real-time have one thing in common; sometimes reality doesn't live up to fantasy. The excitement of finding a partner, the idea of doing something 'forbidden' and 'kinky'. Masturbatory fantasy always has a happy ending; a relationship with another human being, either at the other end of the flogger or the internet, often doesn't. Compromises of compatibility are easy to sacrifice for the chance of experiencing something new. Many times the desire wanes with the newness.

There is also the ongoing compatibility issue. One partner needs more intensity, and wants to go deeper into a D/s relationship. The other is content to limit the dynamic to the entry level of sensation. There is no guarantee that initial compatibility continues. Peoples needs evolve and the oft referenced 'frenzy', dom or sub, is real. Relationship frenzy or sensation frenzy blur the reality of basic fundamental long term compatibility; and yes - age of the individuals does come into play. Experience and the ability to have reference points to draw upon, provide benchmarks that make it easier to deal with the arising issues. At 20 it's rare, if not damn near impossible, to know yourself enough to have the confidence you need to live within a power exchanging relationship regardless of the flogger side preferred. It's not a minor factor that hormones are rampant and raging.

The modifier 'true' is considered taboo to apply; but reality is some people are more into the newness and forbidden sexually associated with BDSM or D/s than they are interested in a long term relationship based upon a power exchange, full-time, internet, or 'week-end warrior'. Sometimes that newness is represented by a sensation; other times it's people, still others - it's people who can provide a different sensation. Everyone is 'real'; but really sometimes you LOVE something out of the gate that you've never tried before. You're just as 'real' when you decide; "gee that was fun and nice but I don't need to do that anymore." Some things for one partner are a matter of 'Did it-Done it!; even when for the other partner it's "Did it - Do it AGAIN!" 

To the OP, you won't find any answers here. You may find some questions to ask of your partner or yourself; but even in the worst case, you've learned something about yourself.
quote:

How can I possibly express myself as a Master to someone who isn't interested in being my slave?
You can't. As real as any relationship represents themselves as 'Master' & 'slave' the terms are meaningless outside the context of CONSENSUAL commitment to the underlying relationship. You wear the appropriate label as a reference for others. Reality is, both the Master and slave serve the relationship. Unilateral slavery, or Mastery; isn't possible.

This may not be a dead end, but it is a crossroad. Use it to learn more about each other but don't dismiss the possibility that what you had was the best possible experience generating the best possible outcome.

Good Luck!

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Unhappy Sub and Master in need of HELP - 4/4/2009 9:03:11 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Can you be a real friend? Someone who keeps his word and thinks before he gives it?

So far you've lied to her repeatedly and now you swear you're telling the truth. Stop promising and start growing up.

Be a man of your word, no more and no less. Be someone that you can look up to.

Maybe if you maintain a friendship you can build a new relationship, much better than the old one. Doubtful, but whether with her or alone, in a BDSM relationship or a vanilla one, you'll do much better to be honorable. To have integrity. To be trustworthy. So make yourself into someone worth trusting.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 20
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