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Finding your limits - 4/5/2009 3:35:37 PM

curiousINct

Posts: 85
Joined: 8/18/2008
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A question for the many of you who have been traveling this path longer than I.....

You have a hard limit. It becomes a soft limit as you start to trust, and realize everything isn't as scary as it once sounded. You give it a shot. Perhaps not the most committed attempt to like something you've ever made, but you have started the basics none the less. He mentions taking it a step further, you push back. He says if you really don't like it that much, we don't have to do it. He seems to really mean it....it's ok.

Relief should come flooding in here, but the bit that does is mixed with a whole lot of guilt. Is it really something worth having complained so much about? Can't you just get past yourself if it's something he enjoys?

What do you do?

< Message edited by curiousINct -- 4/5/2009 3:36:25 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: Finding your limits - 4/5/2009 3:50:56 PM

Mishna

Posts: 70
Joined: 11/1/2008
Status: offline

I have the same questions about that, so I'm gonna keep watching the thread and reading the answers. Thanks for posting it. :)

(in reply to curiousINct)

Post #: 2

RE: Finding your limits - 4/5/2009 4:16:34 PM

catize

Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline

We want to please; so despite the fact our dominant says “It’s okay, no biggie” we guilt trip ourselves.
I find it helpful to ask myself some questions.
Is it something that scares me, does it make me think ‘yuck’ or is it really a limit?
Is it something I can manage to do for him?
Can I do it and not feel resentful?
If I feel resentment can I talk it through with him?
What will make me feel better; doing it or not doing it?
Will it make me feel bad about myself? Why?
Is it something I ‘just don’t like’ or would it truly be harmful?
What makes it harmful and can I change that?

Introspection and being honest with myself is the key, I think.

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to curiousINct)

Post #: 3

RE: Finding your limits - 4/5/2009 4:41:20 PM

pinkwind

Posts: 367
Joined: 1/9/2005
Status: offline

i came to Andy with a small number of hard limits that neither of us would want to go near, let alone push. Anything else i hadn't done and found pleasurable or at least tolerable was looked upon as a limitation, and between us we have worked through a whole repertoire of things that i either liked immensely, felt nothing much either way, or didn't much care for.

Of the latter we have kept in our arsenal of BDSM activities those that gave Andy pleasure over and above my discomfort, but only after assuring himself that doing certain things would not impact adversely on our continued interaction, short term and beyond.

i am thankful that i have in Andy a Master who enjoys my pleasure in WIITWD as much as his own, whose tastes match my own too, so that there is little conflict, internal for the most part, about expectation. i am happy to try anything and do so with an open mind, knowing that whatever feelings it leaves me with will be taken into account before we might repeat the experience.

There is so much that is encompassed in BDSM activity, and very few people will want to try everything possible, like a kid trapped in a candy store! What i see happening time after time is people forming relationships with those who share particular avenues of pleasure/pain or whatever, which makes for the least amount of hard limits set between folk.

As for feeling guilty, or resentful, i think that comes early on in a compatible relationship, before both parties have learnt the parameters of each others kink, and willingness to explore together. As time goes on the avenues we travel become more concentrated on the more pleasurable, so limits fall away, as do negative feelings.

_____________________________

pink...
Master Andy's emotion...

From Each According To His Abilities, To Each According To His Needs.

(in reply to curiousINct)

Post #: 4

RE: Finding your limits - 4/5/2009 5:07:05 PM

OsideGirl

Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

My hard limits are things that I consider morally wrong or would damage me either mentally or physically. They're never going to become soft limits. The number of hard limits that I have can be listed on less than two hands. Everything else already is a soft limit.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to pinkwind)

Post #: 5

RE: Finding your limits - 4/5/2009 5:26:33 PM

crazyredhead1957

Posts: 189
Joined: 12/10/2008
Status: offline

For the most part, my Hard Limits are things that are either against the law and/or health hazards.....and i include both physical and mental in that classification. Otherwise, i do have some soft limits.

(in reply to curiousINct)

Post #: 6

RE: Finding your limits - 4/5/2009 5:27:21 PM

kuriouswitch

Posts: 325
Joined: 6/17/2008
Status: offline

I'm really good about beating myself up if I think I'm being a "wimp" and should just shut up and do it, lets not talk about the time Master unintentionally hit a trigger and I ended up curled in a ball. He apologized and I was the one furious at myself for ruining the scene.. go figure. I came to Master with two very hard limits beyond the usual illegal/harmful ones. As a kajira I'm not usually allowed limits but when I explained why I had those two particular ones he understood and allowed them. Now one of those limits we have worked on and I've found it's no longer a limit, but the other I've asked him to hold off on trying for a good long while it scares me too much. Being a newbie, I have several things I've never tried that Master enjoys, some worry me, make me wonder how will i react? will i like it? will i hate it? will i have to do it again? Some I hate the idea of doing but I also promised him that I would try to attempt to try everything he brings up at least once unless I think it may harm me in some way. I remember the day I broke through that trigger finally after months of begging Master to that scene again, he kept saying i wasn't ready and i was determined to break through it. I think i was prouder of myself than he was, and I shocked him, he did it because I had asked him one more time to try, he thought i still wasn't ready but i did it.

You may feel guilt about saying you don't want to, that you aren't comfortable with it or you didn't enjoy it the first time, but maybe you can compromise and give him greater pleasure by finding something that he enjoys more than that limit and that you enjoy as well and explore that one deeper. I've done things that Master enjoys that i don't but they don't harm me in anyway except to make me uncomfortable or nervous and he's always in charge, always there to stop things if they go too far and that makes me feel better as well as the "good girl i'm proud of you" i get at the end during after care.

(in reply to curiousINct)

Post #: 7

RE: Finding your limits - 4/5/2009 5:34:44 PM

AngelGeena

Posts: 1324
Joined: 10/17/2008
Status: offline

I initially thought of my hard limits, or any limit really, would be something physical or some type of activity and my list of things I would never do was very small. I would be willing to at least try with the right person. I never thought of all the emotional aspects of it. I then had some hard limits in that area. Like you, when I said I wouldnt or couldnt do something, I felt extreme guilt. I got to the point I asked myself, is this really going to hurt me if I do at least try? If I could answer no, as hard as it may have been, I have been willing to have Him push those and see what I could do. Overcoming some of those is almost like a high for me. Although I hate when He brings something up I don't want to do, I also like the challenge set before me. I still have true hard limits, disgusting things that are non negotiable. If He, or anyone, ever tried to force those on me, I doubt I'd be sticking around.

_____________________________

Owned heart and soul, bound to MZ forever.

(in reply to crazyredhead1957)

Post #: 8

RE: Finding your limits - 4/5/2009 6:13:00 PM

curiousINct

Posts: 85
Joined: 8/18/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

We want to please; so despite the fact our dominant says “It’s okay, no biggie” we guilt trip ourselves.
I find it helpful to ask myself some questions.
Is it something that scares me, does it make me think ‘yuck’ or is it really a limit?
Is it something I can manage to do for him?
Can I do it and not feel resentful?
If I feel resentment can I talk it through with him?
What will make me feel better; doing it or not doing it?
Will it make me feel bad about myself? Why?
Is it something I ‘just don’t like’ or would it truly be harmful?
What makes it harmful and can I change that?

Introspection and being honest with myself is the key, I think.

Thanks, catize. For the past few days, my mind has been stuck on the 2nd question that I turned bold, because right now it doesn't feel so good. Time to redirect my thoughts towards that first question, and start at the base of it all.

Have you found it useful to give it some time to think over? Or does dwelling on it just turn it into a bigger issue for you than it needs to be? My gut reaction is to say it's fine, but want to make sure it really is before I do so that we don't end up back here again.

(in reply to catize)

Post #: 9

RE: Finding your limits - 4/5/2009 6:23:02 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

It doesn't have to be a final decision. Don't think of it as something you will never do, but as something you may do someday if everything is okay. And then table it.

I find that usually if given six months to think it over, somewhere by the end of that I will have figured out what is the troubling part of it, and he'll try to change things around so it's easier on me, especially the first few times. If it goes well, great, and if it doesn't it gets tabled for another six months.

Of course it did take three years to discover that the reason I had a panic attack every time he tied me to a pole was because he was tying my head. If he doesn't tie my head, I don't panic. I don't get aroused but that's because I feel off balance. If tied to a fence with legs apart and head free, everything's great. The pole in the garage however is never going to be my favorite.

We would table it, talk about it after six months, try it again, and repeat.

But if it's a moral line he's crossing, then I'm not going there. I'm also not going to feel guilty because if I were made to cross a moral line, I know I would dislike him for it, feel that he didn't care about me, and in general it would cause major damage to the relationship.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to curiousINct)

Post #: 10

RE: Finding your limits - 4/5/2009 6:28:24 PM

curiousINct

Posts: 85
Joined: 8/18/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pinkwind

There is so much that is encompassed in BDSM activity, and very few people will want to try everything possible, like a kid trapped in a candy store! What i see happening time after time is people forming relationships with those who share particular avenues of pleasure/pain or whatever, which makes for the least amount of hard limits set between folk.

As for feeling guilty, or resentful, i think that comes early on in a compatible relationship, before both parties have learnt the parameters of each others kink, and willingness to explore together. As time goes on the avenues we travel become more concentrated on the more pleasurable, so limits fall away, as do negative feelings.

Thanks for your insight, pink. I usually feel like a kid in a candy store, which is one of the reasons this is bothering me so much. I want to try everything (that's legal/ethical), and figured that if there was something that wasn't great - so be it, there's so much other stuff. That theory worked a lot better before finding something that went into the 'not for me' category, because of the uck feelings associated with it.

(in reply to pinkwind)

Post #: 11

RE: Finding your limits - 4/5/2009 6:35:20 PM

curiousINct

Posts: 85
Joined: 8/18/2008
Status: offline

Thanks OsideGirl and crazyredhead. I don't have very many limits now, but when I first stumbled onto this world last summer, pretty much everything on the checklist scared or grossed me out, and was labelled a hard limit. :)

(in reply to curiousINct)

Post #: 12

RE: Finding your limits - 4/5/2009 6:44:14 PM

curiousINct

Posts: 85
Joined: 8/18/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kuriouswitch
I've done things that Master enjoys that i don't but they don't harm me in anyway except to make me uncomfortable or nervous

quote:

ORIGINAL: AngelGeena
Like you, when I said I wouldnt or couldnt do something, I felt extreme guilt. I got to the point I asked myself, is this really going to hurt me if I do at least try? If I could answer no, as hard as it may have been, I have been willing to have Him push those and see what I could do.

kurious and Angel, you both said nearly the same thing, and it seems like the key. Thank you both, it's helpful to look at it from this perspective.

(in reply to kuriouswitch)

Post #: 13

RE: Finding your limits - 4/5/2009 6:46:14 PM

curiousINct

Posts: 85
Joined: 8/18/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

It doesn't have to be a final decision. Don't think of it as something you will never do, but as something you may do someday if everything is okay. And then table it.

This is a much healthier way to look at it than my 'now now now' attitude.

Thanks for the reminder, Des.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 14

RE: Finding your limits - 4/5/2009 6:53:48 PM

marysdream

Posts: 126
Joined: 5/31/2008
Status: offline

i believe if he is a good kind caring Master..and he told you he was ok with it believe him! you are fortunate that he recognizes your wants needs and desires. i would just constantly tell him that you feel fortunate in this regard!
good luck
ree

(in reply to curiousINct)

Post #: 15

RE: Finding your limits - 4/5/2009 7:23:01 PM

RealSub58

Posts: 1073
Status: offline

~~FR~~

Hard limits are related to fear of the unknown; ie what one has experienced or heard about.

Keep an open mind always...the faster and tighter you shut the door to being open, the less happy and regretful you will be.

(in reply to curiousINct)

Post #: 16

RE: Finding your limits - 4/5/2009 7:33:39 PM

peppermint

Posts: 5170
Joined: 10/18/2005
From: Montana
Status: offline

My hard limits are hard limits for a reason. They are activities I will never engage in. Soft limits, on the other hand, can be pushed. It's great if a sub and Dom's hard limits match closely.

As time passes and I discover more strange things someone will think of doing to another, my hard limits list becomes longer. Rainbow showers and gun play are activities that went on my hard limits list long after I got involved in WIITWD.

(in reply to curiousINct)

Post #: 17

RE: Finding your limits - 4/5/2009 7:40:24 PM

ExKat

Posts: 300
Joined: 8/25/2008
Status: offline

You and your dominant go past whatever limit you were previously comfortable with. Maybe it hurts you, maybe you cuddle and cry a bit and get past it. Then, two months later, you and your dominant break up for some reason. Once you get past the feelings of sadness and hurt, of betrayal, and all those other nasty things associated with break-ups, how will you feel about going past your limit? Will you remember it as a pleasant time? Will you think...hey, that wasn't really my thing, but it was fun at the time and I liked it? Will it make you feel dirty and nasty?

Do the things that won't make you hate yourself later. Only you can draw those limits.

_____________________________

~*~ The amalgam of Exquemelin and Katie978~*~
In the forums, it'll usually be Katie you're speaking to.
testing
"That's the plan/ Rule the world/ You and me/ Anyday ::wink::"

(in reply to peppermint)

Post #: 18

RE: Finding your limits - 4/6/2009 4:09:47 AM

eyesopened

Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline

I figured out pretty early on that if I were going to call something a limit then it had better be a limit. I also learned early on that lines drawn in sand will errode so best to look at what limit really means to me.

To me, a limit is a consequence of an action not the action itself. My limits include a prison sentence for either me or somebody else, death for me or somebody else, permanent physical or psychological damage for me or somebody else as a result of my/Our actions.

For example, a bj is a pretty vanilla activity and would hardly be a limit but a bj at the McDonald's play place on a Saturday afternoon is a hard as diamonds limit.

While I know it's way more cool to be "no limits" but by shifting my focus away from activity-specific to consequence-specific, and by choosing a partner with the same moral code as myself, I don't have to be concerned about lists or what activities are hard or soft limits. Our relationship does not have to be cluttered with useless emotions of guilt, regret or remorse.

_____________________________

Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

(in reply to curiousINct)

Post #: 19

RE: Finding your limits - 4/6/2009 5:58:22 AM

catize

Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline

quote:

Have you found it useful to give it some time to think over? Or does dwelling on it just turn it into a bigger issue for you than it needs to be? My gut reaction is to say it's fine, but want to make sure it really is before I do so that we don't end up back here again.

Thinking it through and discussing your feelings is helpful, but as DesFIP suggests, it might be good to set it aside for awhile and then come back to it. Discussing it when it’s right there on the table can confuse the issue because of all the emotions attached. Time can let you step away from those emotions and help you see it more clearly.

There are several things that I submit to R. and to S. that are big “yuck” factors for me. But I can feel good about them because it pleases them so much. It is the submission that fulfills me, not the action.

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to curiousINct)

Post #: 20

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