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Topping fron the bottom - 1/29/2006 11:34:43 AM   
Alan101


Posts: 3
Joined: 12/7/2005
Status: offline 		Some advice, please. How do you stop a bottom from trying to top?
Thanks.
Alan



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RE: Topping fron the bottom - 1/29/2006 11:39:59 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I think we need more specific information regarding your situation.

Have you discussed this with your sub? Have you punished your sub for the infraction(s)?
Do you set aside time when your sub is free to talk to you about things without the threat that she is trying to "top" you?


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(in reply to Alan101)
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RE: Topping from the bottom - 1/29/2006 11:58:13 AM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alan101

Some advice, please. How do you stop a bottom from trying to top?
Thanks.
Alan




You simply don't allow it. People repeat behaviors that are successful. If the success rate is zero, the behavior quickly vanishes.

If a submissive does something that displeases me, I explain that I am displeased and why. If the behavior continues, I reevaluate the relationship.

< Message edited by JohnWarren -- 1/29/2006 12:00:42 PM >

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(in reply to Alan101)
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RE: Topping from the bottom - 1/29/2006 12:13:26 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alan101

Some advice, please. How do you stop a bottom from trying to top?
Thanks.
Alan




You simply don't allow it. People repeat behaviors that are successful. If the success rate is zero, the behavior quickly vanishes.

If a submissive does something that displeases me, I explain that I am displeased and why. If the behavior continues, I reevaluate the relationship.


i ditto that, i also think you need to look at yourself your style and abilities and what form of authority figure your bottom respects that is if your bottom is even a bottom or submissive at all. i am not saying this to put anything on you but there are many levels of af aggression/passivity if you will in domination and some people are totally nonagressive dominants. For example if you are a nonagressive dominant, and your sub needs to be tossed around to feel controlled you may not be a proper match for each other or negotiation would be in order. i think you may want to consider talking with your sub to see what it takes to control them, and hope it is within your style to do so. Last recourse is reevaluate the play and possibly even the relationship as john pointed out.

(in reply to JohnWarren)
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RE: Topping from the bottom - 1/30/2006 1:29:53 AM   
Alan101


Posts: 3
Joined: 12/7/2005
Status: offline 		These are really helpful comments. Some examples are: when I tell her to sit on her hands becuse she's been fiddling, she sticks her tongue out; when I send her to face the wall before, during or after a spenking session, she refuses to keep still but wiggles her bottom. I feel that if I punish her harder, I may do more damage than I really want to - I'm not a sadist !
Cheers
Alan

_____________________________

Spanking is best. It beats all the rest.

(in reply to Real0ne)
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RE: Topping from the bottom - 1/30/2006 2:12:51 AM   
CuriousPuppy


Posts: 120
Joined: 6/20/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alan101

These are really helpful comments. Some examples are: when I tell her to sit on her hands becuse she's been fiddling, she sticks her tongue out; when I send her to face the wall before, during or after a spenking session, she refuses to keep still but wiggles her bottom. I feel that if I punish her harder, I may do more damage than I really want to - I'm not a sadist !
Cheers
Alan


Have her open her mouth wide, (loosely) tie a bow/ribbon around her tongue, and state that her tongue has to stay touching her top lip and possibly that the bow has to stay dry even. If she can't lower her tongue back down, the insides of her mouth will start to become rather uncomfortable as it dries out within the first 5-10 minutes... eventually drooling perhaps as well since it's rather difficult to swallow without the help of your tongue. I've no idea how healthy it is for someone to do that regularly, but my dentist didn't seem to find it as something I should worry about while I was having my root canal a while back. Stick out your tongue, that's the punishment.

Wiggles her bottom after a spanking? let her, but start out by going to a hobby/autoparts shop and get some of the super-fine sandpaper and support it on something so it's pressed against the freshly spanked area. A hinge, a couple boards, a bit of padding, a bungee cord to keep it pressed against her backside, could be done pretty cheaply or very in depth if need be. The superfine sandpapers go all the way from about as rough as a sheet of paper to something like a rather rough nail file it seems, lots of room to grow in there before needing to move into something that could really cause damage.

Of course these are just sleepy attempts to think of uncomfortable punishments involving the activities you mentioned without actually causing any damage. Now that my laundry is ready to go into the dryer I can go to sleep :)

(in reply to Alan101)
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RE: Topping from the bottom - 1/30/2006 5:19:26 AM   
MstrssPassion


Posts: 2444
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: West Palm Beach, FL
Status: offline 		The small amount of information you provided does not paint a clear picture as to what is going on or as to the type of relationship you have with her. She is obviously getting something she wants out of the situation or this behavior would not continue. Maybe she thinks her bratty behavior is cute. There really is no way to determine whether this is failure on your part or blatant defiance on her part.

I would suggest a very long sit down with her. Place all of your expectations on both sides down on paper. If you came to a decision that neither of your expectations are going to be met then it is time to dissolve this element of your involvement since you two would obviously have a different thought as to how your D/s relationship should work.

The simple fact of one person identifying as a dominant & one person identifying as a submissive isn't enough to form a relationship. Some dominants seek out bratty subs, some don't. Some submissives seek out dominants that will enforce structure & behavior modification & some don't.




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RE: Topping from the bottom - 1/30/2006 7:06:22 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alan101

These are really helpful comments. Some examples are: when I tell her to sit on her hands becuse she's been fiddling, she sticks her tongue out; when I send her to face the wall before, during or after a spenking session, she refuses to keep still but wiggles her bottom. I feel that if I punish her harder, I may do more damage than I really want to - I'm not a sadist !
Cheers
Alan


Hhmmmm.... reads to me like your "punishments" are what she wants.

You may need to change what you do in response. If she doesn't do something you've ordered, walk away and ignore her until she does it. If she doesn't live with you, get her coat or her purse or whatever, take her collar off and tell her to leave until she decides she actually wants to be your submissive.

She reads like the "brat" category of bottom to me and it reads like you aren't interested in having that dynamic. It could be that frankly your style or needs don't match. It could be that she just doesn't realize how annoyed you are because you feed her by punishing her in the ways you mention.

You can try talking to her but it seems that physical reaction is not working. The attitude is the problem and attitude, in my experience, is best dealt with by being ignored or separated for a time if talking doesn't help.

My advice may not be very good because the first time someone disobeyed me as you've written, that's the second to last time they'd do it. If after I explained that I expect their best behavior and obedience and they acted up again, the door would be opened, they'd be told to leave, and that would be the end.

I find this sort of behavior to be emotionally draining.

What do you find the behavior to be, Alan101? When you answer that, I think you'll have a much clearer idea of what to do.


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TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

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(in reply to Alan101)
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RE: Topping from the bottom - 1/30/2006 8:49:17 AM   
yourMissTress


Posts: 1665
Joined: 6/14/2005
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alan101

Some advice, please. How do you stop a bottom from trying to top?
Thanks.
Alan




You simply don't allow it. People repeat behaviors that are successful. If the success rate is zero, the behavior quickly vanishes.

If a submissive does something that displeases me, I explain that I am displeased and why. If the behavior continues, I reevaluate the relationship.


Again, John is right on the money. You are the Dom, you set the boundaries and expectations of behavior.

From the sounds of it, she's trying to be cute/bratty and maybe is trying to "earn" more punishment. The more you play into her hands the worse it's going to get. Find a punishment for these behaviors that she will not like...AT ALL, and then enforce it. Each and every sub has different buttons, what's punishment to one is exactly what another craves.

< Message edited by yourMissTress -- 1/30/2006 8:51:05 AM >

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"If you have to tell people that you are a lady, you are not." My Grandmother


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RE: Topping from the bottom - 1/30/2006 1:59:47 PM   
LthrdWolf


Posts: 92
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

You simply don't allow it. People repeat behaviors that are successful. If the success rate is zero, the behavior quickly vanishes.

If a submissive does something that displeases me, I explain that I am displeased and why. If the behavior continues, I reevaluate the relationship.


Well put John I also agree -totally.

LthrdWolf

(in reply to JohnWarren)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Topping from the bottom - 1/30/2006 4:46:19 PM   
MistressDREAD


Posts: 2943
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

during or after a spenking session, she refuses to keep still but wiggles her bottom.


After such a scene Alan a cooldown period needs to be expected and established. putting a sub especially
a bratty sub in a corner after a scene with out a cool down period is next to cruel. she is still comming down
and needs your Dominant attention at this point. bratty subs need more attention then the normal sub but
I do agree with John, establish Your bounderies and if they are not followed a new assessment might be needed.


(in reply to LthrdWolf)
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RE: Topping from the bottom - 11/29/2006 7:01:31 PM   
LthrdWolf


Posts: 92
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren




You simply don't allow it. People repeat behaviors that are successful. If the success rate is zero, the behavior quickly vanishes.

If a submissive does something that displeases me, I explain that I am displeased and why. If the behavior continues, I reevaluate the relationship.


Exactly

Mz Wolf

(in reply to JohnWarren)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Topping from the bottom - 11/29/2006 7:06:40 PM   
LthrdWolf


Posts: 92
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline 		Obviously I feel strongly about this,as I have apparently replied twice ...& can't seem to delete my second response ...which was much later ie/note the posting dates.

Sorry for the repeat folks.

Mz Wolf


< Message edited by LthrdWolf -- 11/29/2006 7:08:05 PM >

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RE: Topping fron the bottom - 11/30/2006 4:54:49 AM   
MisPandora


Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alan101

How do you stop a bottom from trying to top?

Ignore them.
Don't engage them at all.

_____________________________

Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to Alan101)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Topping fron the bottom - 11/30/2006 5:10:54 AM   
LeatherBentOne


Posts: 469
Joined: 9/27/2005
Status: offline 		When my sub wants "more," I give her less and never give into anything that resembles topping from the bottom.  Somewhere down the line though, when she least expects it, I give her what she hints about but it's in my time and in my way just to make sure that I didn't misinterpret her need instead of her want.  I like to cover as many bases at once if possible.  Conserves energy on my part and makes us both happy.  If she directly asks for what she wants, the answer is always the same, "NO."  I stare her dead in the eye and watch her shrink.  What a glorious sight.

(in reply to MisPandora)
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RE: Topping fron the bottom - 11/30/2006 7:38:31 AM   
pinkkeith


Posts: 605
Joined: 11/26/2006
From: Illinois
Status: offline 		I always thought the term "topping from the bottom" meant the sub will tell the dom/me what to do to them. I don't know if your situation really fits within what my interpretation is of the term. It seems like to me she is just being bratty to see how much she can get away with. She's being disobident rather then trying to take control of the relationship.

< Message edited by pinkkeith -- 11/30/2006 8:19:25 AM >

(in reply to LeatherBentOne)
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RE: Topping from the bottom - 11/30/2006 8:04:17 AM   
Morrigel


Posts: 492
Joined: 10/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alan101

These are really helpful comments. Some examples are: when I tell her to sit on her hands becuse she's been fiddling, she sticks her tongue out; when I send her to face the wall before, during or after a spenking session, she refuses to keep still but wiggles her bottom. I feel that if I punish her harder, I may do more damage than I really want to - I'm not a sadist !
Cheers
Alan


Sounds like a sadist is what she's looking for, to be honest.  Or at the very least, someone who enjoys escalating punishment.

From my point of view, this submissive is a "brat".  Whether this style of submission really qualifies as "topping from the bottom" is open to debate, but some dominants do like brats, and others do not.

I am not much of a brat-tamer myself.  I love people who have a good personality and a great sense of humor, and it can be fun for a one-time thing to do some sort of adversarial scene...but in an ongoing relationship, bratty behavior is just tiresome.  I don't have the time and energy to devote to someone who doesn't want to please me, or who doesn't know how to get his/her needs met with open communication.

If you want specific suggestions, I would say that this sub's behavior is very much about wanting more attention focused on her:  the only way to teach her not to do these things is to give her less and less attention.  If she is told to sit on her hands becuse she's been fiddling, and she sticks her tongue out--put an ugly, featureless sack over her head and turn her face toward the wall.  Paper grocery bag should do fine.

Engage your attention with some other task while she is being punished.  Make it clear that she has "lost" you and that she is no longer exciting or interesting when she behaves this way.

Similarly, if a girl is made to sit in the corner and wiggles her bum--make her sit in the closet, alone.  The point is, with each infraction of the rules, she gets less contact and less attention from you.  In the end, if she can't learn, you simply get rid of her.

--M

(in reply to Alan101)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Topping fron the bottom - 11/30/2006 8:28:31 AM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		Nothing works as well as just stopping the activity in it's tracks... then  let HIM/'HER tell you why it was stopped by you.  Discipline without  a lesson learned is useless.  Just be sure to follow through. 

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


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Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Topping from the bottom - 11/30/2006 8:31:31 AM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alan101

These are really helpful comments. Some examples are: when I tell her to sit on her hands becuse she's been fiddling, she sticks her tongue out; when I send her to face the wall before, during or after a spenking session, she refuses to keep still but wiggles her bottom. I feel that if I punish her harder, I may do more damage than I really want to - I'm not a sadist !
Cheers
Alan
This reminds me of a joke:
 
Masochist:  "Master..hurt me PLEASE!"
Sadist:         "....no"
 
The worst thing to do to a masochist is to refuse to cave to their desires... unless you wish to.

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


(in reply to Alan101)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Topping fron the bottom - 12/1/2006 4:54:12 AM   
LeatherBentOne


Posts: 469
Joined: 9/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pinkkeith

I always thought the term "topping from the bottom" meant the sub will tell the dom/me what to do to them. I don't know if your situation really fits within what my interpretation is of the term. It seems like to me she is just being bratty to see how much she can get away with. She's being disobident rather then trying to take control of the relationship.


I see it as trying to control the relationship when she is the one to initiate through direct/indirect means what she wants to happen, when and how she wants it to happen.  Is this not the same as telling me what to do, in your opinion?  I think so but your views are most welcome if you care to expound in more detail.

LBO

(in reply to pinkkeith)
Profile   Post #: 20
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