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RE: Topping fron the bottom - 12/1/2006 5:56:12 AM

pixelslave

Posts: 1444
Joined: 8/19/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LeatherBentOne

quote:

ORIGINAL: pinkkeith

I always thought the term "topping from the bottom" meant the sub will tell the dom/me what to do to them. I don't know if your situation really fits within what my interpretation is of the term. It seems like to me she is just being bratty to see how much she can get away with. She's being disobident rather then trying to take control of the relationship.

I see it as trying to control the relationship when she is the one to initiate through direct/indirect means what she wants to happen, when and how she wants it to happen. Is this not the same as telling me what to do, in your opinion? I think so but your views are most welcome if you care to expound in more detail.

LBO

LBO,
I can't speak for pinkkeith, but if as a sub, I communicate to you directly what my desires or wishes are, I do not see that as topping from the bottom, but simply making an honest and sincere request which is up to you to decide to accept or reject at that particular moment, or save for another time. IMO, when one is topping from the bottom, one is manipulating to get what they want. When communicating directly, I don't see any kind of manipulation that is going on; simply one partner/sub/slave (you decide the name) asking the other for what they want. To me, that is the distinction, and a very huge distinction between them in my mind.

What you described, doesn't seem to encourage your sub to be open and honest with you about their desires. If that works for the both of you, then obviously who am I to criticise? OTOH, at some time later, you could find yourself looking for another sub because your current one wasn't getting what they needed from the relationship despite their best efforts to let you know what they needed and finding themselves feeling uneccessarily humiliated for doing so. That may just be a matter of style of what works for you and yours that wouldn't work for me with the one I'd eventually like to be with.

- pixel

_____________________________

Chivalry isn't dead! It's for those who have it in their hearts & are willing to be taught. It's a way of life, a code of honor; this one's armor still needs some polishing!

(in reply to LeatherBentOne)

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RE: Topping fron the bottom - 12/1/2006 7:40:06 AM

pinkkeith

Posts: 605
Joined: 11/26/2006
From: Illinois
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LeatherBentOne

quote:

ORIGINAL: pinkkeith

I always thought the term "topping from the bottom" meant the sub will tell the dom/me what to do to them. I don't know if your situation really fits within what my interpretation is of the term. It seems like to me she is just being bratty to see how much she can get away with. She's being disobident rather then trying to take control of the relationship.

I see it as trying to control the relationship when she is the one to initiate through direct/indirect means what she wants to happen, when and how she wants it to happen. Is this not the same as telling me what to do, in your opinion? I think so but your views are most welcome if you care to expound in more detail.

LBO

As a submissive I would think that "topping from the bottom" would be something that is very direct, trying to tell the top what to do and how to do. I usually find this type of behavior in myself to come out with interacting with novice dominates. There isn't really anything wrong or right with "topping from the bottom" but, as a submissive, it does make the experience less rewarding.

I also think that the submissive really is in more control then the dominate when it comes to a D/s relationship. There really has to be a lot of trust between the two partners in order to have an enjoyable relationship. The sub needs the dom to know what his/her limits are and the dom has to respect these limits. Of course, the good dom will also try to push it one step further. I compare the situation to that of an athlete, the althlete knows what her/his limits are, but in order to be a better athlete she/he needs to push it just a little bit more. As a sub, I like a dom that can push me and test my limits; it helps me grow. Yet, once this point is reached the dom really has to read the verbal and/or non-verbal cues that the sub can't take any more. This to me isn't "topping from the bottom" but is rather communicating what the limits are.

Then there is the question of the sub wanting some needs met and how to communicate them to the dom. We are all human and we all have our own needs, but these needs are different between the dom and the sub. Speaking as a submissive how I communicate my needs/desires will be different based on my experience of how the dom will react. I also would expect a dom not to want to "do things with me" (whatever that might be) when I don't feel up to it. When I am really sick and under the weather, I would expect my dom to respect that I can't do everything they order me to do based on this situation.

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RE: Topping fron the bottom - 12/3/2006 10:01:39 AM

LeatherBentOne

Posts: 469
Joined: 9/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LeatherBentOne

When my sub wants "more," I give her less and never give into anything that resembles topping from the bottom. Somewhere down the line though, when she least expects it, I give her what she hints about but it's in my time and in my way just to make sure that I didn't misinterpret her need instead of her want. I like to cover as many bases at once if possible. Conserves energy on my part and makes us both happy. If she directly asks for what she wants, the answer is always the same, "NO." I stare her dead in the eye and watch her shrink. What a glorious sight.

1. "hints" meaning I like to take the initiate after an indirect cue.
2. "misinterpret her need," meaning I want to fulfill, not overlook them.
3. "Conserves energy" meaning if I intitate based on her cues, including her needs
and her wants, it "makes us both happy".

Sorry if my post was unclear. I was just trying to "conserve energy."

LBO

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Post #: 23

RE: Topping from the bottom - 12/3/2006 10:56:21 PM

adaddysgirl

Posts: 1093
Joined: 3/2/2004
From: Syracuse, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alan101

These are really helpful comments. Some examples are: when I tell her to sit on her hands becuse she's been fiddling, she sticks her tongue out; when I send her to face the wall before, during or after a spenking session, she refuses to keep still but wiggles her bottom. I feel that if I punish her harder, I may do more damage than I really want to - I'm not a sadist !
Cheers
Alan

Alan,

my first daddy dom was very strict and gave very severe spankings. i never, ever, entertained the notion of being 'bratty' with him. i hated the spankings and am definitely not a masochist.....so in short, i behaved as expected.

A couple of years later, i became involved with a dom who, although he had no direct experience as a daddy dom, was interested in it, and assured me he had no problems administering discipline spankings as needed. (His profile even said he had a sub in tears after 5 hard hand swats.)

So to make a long story short, he gave me about 10 swats as a first spanking....then stood me up. As i said, i am not a masochist....but that had no effect on me whatsoever. That then happened a second time....same result.

i tried to talk to him about it (talk about feeling like i was topping from the bottom! my trying to tell him he really had to spank me harder to get his point across was just not right to me....but what else could i do?)

Well, it still didn't make a difference so then, quite out of character for me, i started bratting. i honestly hated it but was hoping something would work. i did awful things. Your girl sticks her tongue out? i used to give him the finger! Your girl wiggles her ass when in the corner? i used to walk away from the corner and go about my business as usual.

He didn't do a damn thing about it. As it turned out, he would rather have me brat than be able to spank me to the degree i needed. Needless to say, the whole thing turned very ugly.

He was not a sadist...nor i a masochist....but he still could not deliver the harsher punishment i needed to 'get my shit together'. And i needed that. And i lost respect for him and then felt free to do whatever i wanted to him.

i really am not a brat....do not want to be....and hope never to be in that position again. Now either your girl is a brat and needs some serious discipline....or she's really not, but still needs some serious discipline....lol. Or maybe she's just a masochist who really needs to be whipped to feel respect toward you. i really don't know.

Sorry if that sounds confusing but it does sound like you two need to explore more of why she does such things. Unless, of course, you are like the dom i referred to above and prefer that type of behavior rather than taking matters in hand, so to speak....then that's a different story.

Good luck with figuring it all out

DG

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RE: Topping from the bottom - 12/4/2006 4:07:03 PM

Celeste43

Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
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It sounds as though she needs heavier play than you are comfortable with. More than that, it sounds as though the only time she gets any play is when she misbehaves. Turn it around, don't spank her for punishment but as a reward. "You made a great dinner, now get the paddle and lie across my lap". Send her off by herself to write an essay for punishment.

If the only way she can get her needs met is by misbehaving, then it's the dominant's fault for setting this up. Is she allowed to ask for a spanking? If so, is she likely to get it? Separate play and punishment and trust her to tell you when it's getting too painful for her. You can spank hard and long without doing damage, if she has any padding in that area. If you normally give 20 spanks, then next time give 25 and see what the result is.

(in reply to adaddysgirl)

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