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High Protocol Practices - 4/10/2009 9:34:15 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		This could just be the way I'm reading some posts and the following responses to the same.  I could be way off base here, but I thought it might make for interesting discussion.

Lately, I've been kind of getting this vibe that there are at least a few folks out there who have a certain stereotype in their head when they hear people mention that they enjoy high protocol or might be leather.  I tend to get the impression that people make the assumption that the additional formality comes across as rude, unsociable, or other unpleasant traits. 

I wanted to put a word in to let people know that those stereotypes aren't necessarily true for everyone.  (Isn't that true of most stereotypes?)  Just because those of us who are a bit more formal conduct our affairs in a different way doesn't mean we aren't happy to talk to you, or aren't willing to help you feel comfortable in one of our settings, or be willing to teach you about them if you're willing to learn.  In fact, there are some of us who absolutely love these opportunities, because as you get the chance to learn our ways, you also get the chance to know about us.  We also get the chance to learn about you, which some of us get a real kick out of.

One of the things that I hear a lot that makes people want to avoid protocol type situations is, "I wouldn't know what to do, what to say, or how to act."  OK.  I get that.  It's not that we don't know there are some folks out there who haven't had the opportunity to have any kind of protocol exposure.  Some of us actually try rather hard to help in this area.  We create protocol 'cheat sheets' before events or have learned to adopt certain phrases for introductions or conversations to lend a hand.  We don't want you to feel like you're outside looking in.  If anything, it's more the opposite.  We'll like your company and hope you'll join us again.

As usual, I've rambled too long before asking a question or putting something up to discuss.  I'll get to that now.

Does your perception of high protocol practices fit the stereotype that I mentioned above?  What experiences have you had that led you to that conclusion?  Are you interested in protocol type settings or events and just haven't had the chance to attend something like that yet?  Have you had fears about doing so?  What do you think you as person would make you feel more welcome? 


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RE: High Protocol Practices - 4/10/2009 9:41:07 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		Although my experience with high protocol is VERY VERY limited, I have always associated it more with the Geisha kind of thing.  No rudeness, etc at all.

(unless it intrudes on what is going on with MY dynamic.. I hope that makes sense..?)


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RE: High Protocol Practices - 4/10/2009 11:30:32 AM   
ChainedExistence


Posts: 507
Joined: 2/5/2005
Status: offline 		I think the issues about high protocol are also what keeps most people out of clubs- what do I wear, will other people want to touch me, will I be expected to participate, can I participate if I want to and not be ridiculed or judged, how will I know what I can and can't do, what behaviors will offend others, what behaviors would be "normal" for the situation...you get the idea. It's all about the unknown. The more you can coach someone along, give them a guide, walk them through the process ahead of time,  be super clear about rules and expectations, and so on, the more comfortable they will be.

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RE: High Protocol Practices - 4/10/2009 11:42:28 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I've never been invited to a high protocol event or gathering (as far as I know...) so I don't know whether or not I would feel comfortable. I rarely feel uncomfortable so I assume I wouldn't be bothered.

BUT.......there is a very strong possibility that others around me might be offended or uncomfortable.

Unless a submissive or slave is MY submissive or slave, to me, they are simply, another human being. Unless a dominant has gained my personal respect, they are simply, another human being.

I do not enjoy social situations where I have to tightly temper my personality to avoid offending pompous fools. When I meet people I enjoy visiting with, I don't want to walk on eggshells while I try to visit with them because my nature is to do things like...put a hand on someone's arm, shoulder or back, or, if I am very comfortable with them, an arm around their shoulders or waist. I don't want to worry about some neurotic uber dom/me freaking out because that person is their own property, and OMG I .........gasp.......touched them! This is how I am with family and close friends. If I cannot behave with BDSM friends the same way I do with other friends, then I don't need them as friends.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 4/10/2009 11:43:53 AM >

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RE: High Protocol Practices - 4/10/2009 11:47:16 AM   
justgemmie


Posts: 246
Joined: 8/24/2008
Status: offline 		greetings LadyPact

i don't thing Your stereotype is off at all.  speaking only for myself, i had for a very long time a fear of attending events that have noticeable protocols because i don't like looking like a rube or being impolite or being yelled at or whatever the fear(s) are depending on the event. 

what broke me of that fear was attending a gathering.  last summer i was invited by donnaamarie (who i met here on CM btw :) ) to a Gorean Gathering.  i would be considered a slave at said gathering, i would be donna's Master's slave as a matter of fact, and holy cow was i nervous!!!!  but donna and i had become friends on line, and i trusted her as my friend, and well, i just decided to do it!

so i went to their home the night before ,,,,, became enamoured and terrified of her Master  *grinz, He's quite the Man* and met a couple other folks going to the Gathering.  so i spent the weekend as a Gorean slave and although i messed up some, the folks, Masters, Mistresses and slaves, understood and helped me.  Prior to going, Ubar had told me things i was expected to do or how to act appropriately, how things would be generally, and everyone there helped me along.

it took that experience for me to realize, first and foremost, that every single person there was a person, not the made-up fantasy type whomever i had thought they would be.  and they didn't want to abuse me, or hurt my feelings, or make me have a horrible time ..... they are Gorean and helped me be a good slave ,,,, and i wanted to be a good slave and tried my best.  it was a wonderful, terrifying, fantastic Gathering.  i'd do it again in a heartbeat.

now, i think i could go to any type of event with a little encouragement and some help from those attending.  it just took that first time.  i think the biggest thing to remember is that everyone there are people, not fantasies.  just try your honest-to-goodness best and it'll be ok in the end.

well wishe to You and Yours,
gemmie

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RE: High Protocol Practices - 4/10/2009 11:54:53 AM   
subtlebutterfly


Posts: 2230
Joined: 6/15/2008
From: Not your hood
Status: offline 		(never been to one) but ..high protocol is actually my idea of those lifestyle clubs..I have the feeling that if you go there, you can't be yourself. (I'm probably wrong but still..)
When it comes to my friends and people I'm comfortable with I could be considered a friggin sexual harrassment..sometimes I have even excused myself when I get a certain look from a friend whooops herm I'm not hitting on ya boyfriend
so..high protocol thing.......it'd not be a suitable thing for me therefore..I don't think I'll ever step into such a club..well I could pull it of..if I would go alone and wouldn't know anyone at all...but that's not likely to happen sooooo..nopes...
I just wouldn't risk it, since some many seem to be considering themselves way too dommely dommie...even though there may be others not considering themselves that way.

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RE: High Protocol Practices - 4/10/2009 12:02:19 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		God help the club that suffered the two of us at the same time!!

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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: High Protocol Practices - 4/10/2009 12:02:37 PM   
Domin8tingUrDrmz


Posts: 1269
Joined: 4/8/2006
From: Portland Metro, Oregon
Status: offline 		I agree with most of what LaT has to say.  I prefer to be myself wherever I go.  However, I also enjoy learning how others do things.  So, if a High Protocol gathering of people were not offended by the fact that I'm NOT High Protocol, and they did not mind me behaving as I typically behave (I am polite for the most part), then I would enjoy learning about how they do things and I would participate in such events.  If I found some of their protocols enjoyable, I may even adopt them for myself. 

I would not however put myself in a situation where I were 'required or expected' to follow their protocols.  Not because I do not respect them, but simply because I'm me and I'd likely forget most of the protocols or find them too stifling for me to adopt.  I don't want to offend those who practice them, and I do not want to feel eyes on me for my mishaps.

< Message edited by Domin8tingUrDrmz -- 4/10/2009 12:12:31 PM >

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RE: High Protocol Practices - 4/10/2009 12:22:06 PM   
angel4hopew8ting


Posts: 5
Joined: 3/8/2009
Status: offline 		Have not attended a Gorean gathering, except online, where i attended quite a few ceremonies.. Not the same i know. i have although attended a few high/med protocal events, in homes and at the local BDSM club.. i honestly feel more in my element at those functions, as i know what is expected of me.. i am the submissive, and even if i am "overly" polite i can never go wrong with that.. it makes me more relaxed in my role.. Of course i am nervous because of the newness of the surroundings, and the people i do not know, but in the end it always turns out, that most lifestylers have a lot more respect than the average person.. (not always).. i would much prefer to go to a munch or a high protocal event than to a bar or club where there was lots of drinking and hitting on me..

Nice topic, thank You for bringing it up

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RE: High Protocol Practices - 4/10/2009 12:26:24 PM   
subtlebutterfly


Posts: 2230
Joined: 6/15/2008
From: Not your hood
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

God help the club that suffered the two of us at the same time!!

It would be AWESOME hilarious fosho!

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RE: High Protocol Practices - 4/10/2009 1:14:58 PM   
HeavansKeeper


Posts: 1254
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

]Does your perception of high protocol practices fit the stereotype that I mentioned above?  What experiences have you had that led you to that conclusion?  Are you interested in protocol type settings or events and just haven't had the chance to attend something like that yet?  Have you had fears about doing so?  What do you think you as person would make you feel more welcome? 


I've always been intimidated by entering a game in which I don't know the rules. (Of course, I'm not calling Lady Pact's preference for protocol a game, it's merely slightly analogous.) This extends to different cultures, homes, lifestyles, and literal games.

I liken high protocol to meticulous homes. Every object has a place, every command has a response. I know "high" is subjective, as most of us have some sort of protocol. I don't have the exposure to comprehend a firm understanding of "high". I'm not saying I think Lady Pact has her boy walk certain paths through the house, but I assume (a dangerous move) activities and occurrences have order. Not going to blurt out a whole fantasy here, but maybe some kneeling when she walks in the door, tea offered, specific responses to receiving gifts (possibly inclusive of strikes). The familiarity in this order is attractive and comforting. Any dog owner knows this pleasure, when they see a furry face at the window when they pull into the driveway.

Then I consider my relationship, and my level of protocol. It's more fluid, less dependable. Daily, I receive the opportunity to discuss my day, a report of hers, she's continuing to learn to respond in full sentences, when "yes" or "no" are too vague. She also kneels when receiving or giving gifts.

I would love to introduce a little more order to the home, but I have to want it. If it's a chore for both of us, it's not worth the effort. Meeting people who have found pleasure with protocol may inspire me. Frankly, flat out stealing some of their good ideas might be good for us. I'm always interested in learning.

That said, I would love to have a guide. I'm normally a very calm person, but entering such new territory alone makes me nervous. I think that's prohibitive to me. I always forget people are people first, and are just as normal as me, by in large.

-time-

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RE: High Protocol Practices - 4/10/2009 1:17:04 PM   
MissJanice2


Posts: 178
Joined: 3/4/2009
Status: offline 		I don't see how one can judge protocol or compare it to anything at all because it is a simple way of order.  Each Dom/me has their own way of doing things.
For myself, I am high protocol due to the fact I have a military background and like rules.  That does not mean that I carry a tight reign either. My slave has been trained by me and knows what to expect.  We really have a lot of fun together.
When I was training in my early days of BDSM, I was trained by people who were high protocol.  They were Vietnam vets.  I appreciate their training. 
I hope that helps with that observation.
 
Best Wishes,
 
MJ

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RE: High Protocol Practices - 4/10/2009 1:48:35 PM   
crazyredhead1957


Posts: 189
Joined: 12/10/2008
Status: offline 		LadyPact, my respects to You.  i've never been in a BDSM gathering of any kind as of yet, and i know that i would be very nervous when that time comes.  i'm pretty new in the lifestyle as i write this, and  i am hoping that Sir would clue me in ahead of time as to what i'm supposed to do and how i'm supposed to act so i don't offend A/anyone unintentionally.  Most social situations have accepted rules of conduct and i think they would be good to experience.  i'd like to learn the proper way to act and not appear an ill-mannered clod.  Being respectful to E/everyone i'm thinking would be a good start.

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RE: High Protocol Practices - 4/10/2009 2:02:45 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		If it isn't something you do normally, either you are uncomfortable the entire time trying not to make mistakes, thinking more about the protocol than about doing things you enjoy or else you have to be comfortable messing up and making a fool of yourself. I'm not comfortable with the second and I have no desire to do the first.

It's like attending a dinner at an embassy, you simply have to be on best behavior all the time, worrying about stuff. I love my cousin and her husband's a great guy, but I don't want to go to a formal dinner. I'd rather see them for a family gathering than go to the embassy.

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RE: High Protocol Practices - 4/10/2009 2:10:34 PM   
chiaThePet


Posts: 2694
Joined: 2/4/2007
Status: offline
I simply can't stand that whole "Look at me, I've got the key chain everybody"

What's up with the fancy, smancy key chain thing anyway?

I suppose there is always room for formality within the differing areas of our lives.

We just need be mindful that those pressed against the glass and laughing, are simply beneath us.

chia* (the pet)


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RE: High Protocol Practices - 4/10/2009 2:31:30 PM   
HeavansKeeper


Posts: 1254
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline 		Wow, purple. Formatting issue obviously, but I can see the allure...

I wanted to add, before I became over run with distraction, that I have experienced so much outcasting by groups who are resilient to new comers that I expect it. It doesn't stop me, but I always expect to have to be overly acquainted to fit in. I would be pleasantly surprised to find a warm welcome, and genuine patience while I found my footing in new terrain.

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... You've waited your whole life for this moment...

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RE: High Protocol Practices - 4/10/2009 2:47:22 PM   
silkncarol


Posts: 318
Status: offline 		I've had a little experience with high protocol in the past.  It's not really that scary..after all, if you mess up they're not gonna stone you to death!  I did find i needed to rein myself in and be more aware of my manners and D/s protocols.....ie....not hugging friends, no touching anything that doesn't belong to you without permission (that applies to both sides of the slash),  waiting to speak or enter a conversation, where to stand, how to serve a refreshment, etc. Even if all these practices are not the protocol in your relationship, you respect they might be for someone else and observe the "rules". 

I'm not sure i'd want to do it all the time.... but i did find it reinforced my submissive headspace. 


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RE: High Protocol Practices - 4/10/2009 2:54:42 PM   
subtlebutterfly


Posts: 2230
Joined: 6/15/2008
From: Not your hood
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: silkncarol

I've had a little experience with high protocol in the past.  It's not really that scary..after all, if you mess up they're not gonna stone you to death!  I did find i needed to rein myself in and be more aware of my manners and D/s protocols.....ie....not hugging friends, no touching anything that doesn't belong to you without permission (that applies to both sides of the slash),  waiting to speak or enter a conversation, where to stand, how to serve a refreshment, etc. Even if all these practices are not the protocol in your relationship, you respect they might be for someone else and observe the "rules". 

I'm not sure i'd want to do it all the time.... but i did find it reinforced my submissive headspace. 


I will never even be able to enter

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RE: High Protocol Practices - 4/10/2009 3:06:31 PM   
DarkFury


Posts: 264
Joined: 4/1/2009
Status: offline 		I know I count myself in with the ones who've had little experience with high protocol. Yes I did have some training when I was collared and chances are I'd have been taught much more if I still was owned. What I found with myself is being around a group of people who I know are kinksters, entering in that submissive mindset is quite easy and smooth. Basically I will tend to be more subdued ( yes that is possible!!!) and I'll observe the interactions of others and use that as a guideline to my own behavior and the protocol I will use in my interactions with the people surrounding me. 

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RE: High Protocol Practices - 4/10/2009 3:44:57 PM   
FullfigRIMAAM1


Posts: 1160
Joined: 11/20/2008
Status: offline 		I've always wanted to learn more than the little I know about high protocol, but I've never wanted to phony myself up to fit in or attract someone.
When I first began learning about this, a couple of men rejected me for not being about high protocol...  Obviously, I need that pomposity/affectation like I need a hole in the head, but I enjoy learning for my own satisfaction.   I don't like to reject an idea just because some fools enjoy it.
Is there a "high protocol book for the simple" out there LadyPact?    M

< Message edited by FullfigRIMAAM1 -- 4/10/2009 3:45:47 PM >

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