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RE: High Protocol Practices - 4/21/2009 12:36:41 AM

porcelaine

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i'm not put off by high protocol at all. i was raised in a conservative environment where etiquette was taken seriously and taught to each of us. i suppose this is where my love for various eras that highlight this manner of relating really stems from. while i can understand how it can be a little overwhelming to some, i see it as an opportunity to try something new. with the understanding of course that mistakes will occur. i believe when things are taken seriously to the point where it is no longer fun for the newcomer, a negative associate can develop and stereotypes are formed.

i think it would be a wonderful idea if along with the suggestions you've mentioned, you could provide a few resources for those seeking to learn more. it is possible that some communities do not host the events you speak of, and the other options would provide a nice snapshot into the world you appreciate and have graciously shared with us all.

porcelaine

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His will; my fate.

(in reply to Andalusite)

Post #: 61

RE: High Protocol Practices - 4/22/2009 4:27:43 AM

ElizabethAnne

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Hello Andalusite,

I just now saw your question to me, my apologies.

quote:

ElizabethAnne, do you ever invite non-Goreans to your parties (if you know them, and know that they are into D/s and/or BDSM), or do you prefer to only invite people who are already involved in that lifestyle?

We have a Leather family that attends every year, and my dearest friend and her guy, they are vanilla, but very much aware of our lifestyle. We really don't have many "vanilla" friends, most of our friends are in the lifestyle.

I wish you well,

Elizabeth

(in reply to Andalusite)

Post #: 62

RE: High Protocol Practices - 4/22/2009 4:39:05 AM

ElizabethAnne

Posts: 1751
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Hello DesFIP,

quote:

However if it's invitation only, doesn't that wind up being a version of 'preaching to the choir'? You only invite those who you know will enjoy it, and others don't get a chance to experience it.

Perhaps, but why would we invite people into our home for a private party that we don't know? Or that wouldn't enjoy it? (edited to add) This is an afterthought, and I believe vital in this discussion. To put on a high protocol dinner, I like people to not only enjoy the meal, and also appreciate all the work that is involved. It takes far more planning the throwing hot dogs and burgers on the grill.

As far as Doms harrassing unattached slaves, that just doesn't happen. Nor would it. We have been doing this for so long, the folks that are invited are more like family. The girls are here to serve food and drink only, there are no BDSM scenes; I recall one year we invited a BDSM Dom, and he was so surprised at what a good time he had, even without any BDSM activities.

I wish you well,

Elizabeth

< Message edited by ElizabethAnne -- 4/22/2009 4:50:36 AM >

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 63

RE: High Protocol Practices - 4/22/2009 7:35:04 AM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite

IronBear, I'm fine with high protocol vanilla events, and am reasonably familiar with the manners that would be expected of me. I don't have a definite BDSM role unless I have a partner who I have a D/s relationship with. When I'm dating someone new, I can react to them on a D/s basis, either as a dominant or as a submissive, depending on my chemistry/etc. with the individual person.

ElizabethAnne, do you ever invite non-Goreans to your parties (if you know them, and know that they are into D/s and/or BDSM), or do you prefer to only invite people who are already involved in that lifestyle?

I have no issues with that, were you in my area when I was hosting a High Profikle Victorian Dinner you'd probably fit in nicely.

ElizabethAnne, I understand what you are saying having attended several Gorean only parties whilst I was within the Gorean Lifestyle. I also have attend even more Gorean Parties where some non Goreans were also invited because of their acceptance of our ways and being in M/s relationships with attitudes similar to ours. It is for this reason I will happily invote Gorean Lifestylers I know or who are know by close friends to a Victorian Party (Especially as I train slaves using the same methodology I used when I was a Gorean Master)

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Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

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(in reply to Andalusite)

Post #: 64

RE: High Protocol Practices - 4/22/2009 7:46:54 AM

Andalusite

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Thank you, IronBear!

I've actually read quite a bit about Victorian manners and culture and such, as I have an interest in it.

I *am* actually interested in learning some more about the higher protocol and more formal rituals - obviously, if I'm submissive, I can't dictate that type of thing, but it's interesting to learn more about. I'm not particularly formal as a Domme, but if I do find a submissive, I'd love to have him learn more about tea ceremonies (both Asian and British), service, and so forth. If nothing else, it's nice to have a wider background to be *capable* of drawing from, whether or not I choose to do so in my personal relationships.

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 65

RE: High Protocol Practices - 5/21/2009 7:39:44 PM

MasterBenedict

Posts: 309
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So what DO you know about 'High Protocol Practises?

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Post #: 66

RE: High Protocol Practices - 10/24/2009 4:07:52 PM

AislynLass

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Joined: 7/5/2009
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duplicate post edited

< Message edited by AislynLass -- 10/24/2009 4:12:40 PM >

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 67

RE: High Protocol Practices - 10/24/2009 4:11:58 PM

AislynLass

Posts: 56
Joined: 7/5/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

Those who know the Gorean Lifestyle irrespective if they have been part of it or just seen it in action in reality, will see, at a formal occasion where Gorean Lifestylers have gathered, one form of high protocol. The formalities of address, slave positions and movements or serving methods and language. As far as the protocols of the Victorian Lifestyle, just rent out a movie based on that period especially something like "Sense and Sensibility" and "Pride and Prejudice".. That will give for thiose interested somethinmg of the lifestyle I live and the protocols I use daily, also the sort of home I grew up in.

Sorry to interject here, but those movies depict the Regency period (1811-1820) and not Victorian (1837-1901). Manners, fashion, customs, etc. were actually rather different from the later Victorian period. While there were some commonalities, the Regency period was less formal overall, in my opinion. For example, ladies' fashion was less restrictive than the heavily-boned corsets of the Victorian period. I am certainly not saying that there was no protocol, as part of what I've always enjoyed in reading Jane Austen and watching the film adaptations of her work, are the charming manners and forms of address, just that the Regency was a distinct era to the Victorian with its own mores and social customs.

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Post #: 68

RE: High Protocol Practices - 10/24/2009 4:33:32 PM

AnnaOfAramis

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Greetings Andalusite,

You might enjoy the BBC series "Upstairs/Downstairs" (generally orderable through your library) if you are looking to see the protocol of interactions between servants and Masters. It is Edwardian era rather than Victorian, but similar.

Well wishes,
anna

(in reply to Andalusite)

Post #: 69

RE: High Protocol Practices - 10/24/2009 4:47:37 PM

IronBear

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From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
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I agree Aislyn however I think you may also find that the Mannerisms and to some degree the protocols of the Regency Period lingered longer in the higher realms of Victorian Society too and of course the demarcation zone is more blurred in European Society too (depending which country you happen to be in). SAtill such films as Pride and Predjuice are of value to give a generalised setting. For that matter the film "Brahm Stoker's Dracula" is set within the Victorian Period and shows something of the era too regarding protocols.

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Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to AnnaOfAramis)

Post #: 70

RE: High Protocol Practices - 10/24/2009 8:10:58 PM

Hierodule

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Joined: 9/22/2009
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I grew up in a really relaxed Californian household with very little discipline. I ended up running away. I have never been to a formal tea or dinner or had any exposer to high protocol at all. But it sounds interesting. I think having rules to follow would make socializing easier and more comfortable for me actually. I wouldn't have to worry about what to do or how to act if it was layed out for me before hand in black and white.

I think I would enjoy a formal tea party. I love tea esp when it is brewed correctly. Does anyone know any good books or web sites about Victorian etiquette? I am really curious now.

found this : http://www.erasofelegance.com/etiquette/tea.html

any other good ones?

(in reply to Andalusite)

Post #: 71

RE: High Protocol Practices - 10/24/2009 8:30:25 PM

porcelaine

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Joined: 7/24/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AnnaOfAramis

Greetings Andalusite,

You might enjoy the BBC series "Upstairs/Downstairs" (generally orderable through your library) if you are looking to see the protocol of interactions between servants and Masters. It is Edwardian era rather than Victorian, but similar.

Well wishes,
anna

i love this show!! i'm also aware that pbs lists a few films on their website that were masterpiece productions that have appeared over the years on television. much of this is replicated in some form through the newly produced masterpiece classics that air periodically.

porcelaine

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His will; my fate.

(in reply to AnnaOfAramis)

Post #: 72

RE: High Protocol Practices - 10/24/2009 8:46:39 PM

porcelaine

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Joined: 7/24/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hierodule

I think I would enjoy a formal tea party. I love tea esp when it is brewed correctly. Does anyone know any good books or web sites about Victorian etiquette? I am really curious now.

check your local public library or used book store for:

the london ritz book of afternoon tea: helen simpson (they cover the period you're looking for)
find old junior league cookbooks. most are filled with recipes that cover tea and similar entertaining.

you can find ideas for modern day or themed parties which are very fun in these books:

afternoon tea parties: susannah blake
tea party: tracy stern

for the best representation of this in person i recommend patronizing a hotel that offers afternoon tea service. most will have the menu online along with the prices as well. it is usually a flat rate. we have a local venue that features a live harpist and the ambiance is spectacular. i'm aware that the ritz, four seasons, and peninsula offer this in their properties. you may wish to see what else is available in your area.

porcelaine

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to Hierodule)

Post #: 73

RE: High Protocol Practices - 10/26/2009 5:15:45 PM

masterlink65

Posts: 683
Joined: 11/3/2007
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dang, who doesnt get nervous when getting ready for a parade? HP situations make my slave sweat bullets.

as the vast majority of my master/slavery has been within the confines of my own home, and the secret lifestyle kept within my own. i tend to observe more than i interject myself at such events. in the end it seems i have made a friend or two without even trying.

sometimes it is hard NOT to feel like a social retard. i sure many people feel awkward in these situations.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 74

RE: High Protocol Practices - 11/20/2009 4:47:26 AM

MissMasterwants

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Joined: 11/20/2009
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Personally I would not mind being called Ma'am and have slaves lower thie eyes etc at such events. To me it just is a reflection of your status either as a Mistress or slave. Not much point in being interested in this lifestyle if you cannot accept your roles in a non equal society such as BDSM

(in reply to Andalusite)

Post #: 75

RE: High Protocol Practices - 11/21/2009 4:12:33 AM

Santoro

Posts: 58
Joined: 9/16/2009
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quote:

I don't see how one can judge protocol or compare it to anything at all because it is a simple way of order. Each Dom/me has their own way of doing things.
For myself, I am high protocol due to the fact I have a military background and like rules. That does not mean that I carry a tight reign either. My slave has been trained by me and knows what to expect. We really have a lot of fun together.
When I was training in my early days of BDSM, I was trained by people who were high protocol. They were Vietnam vets. I appreciate their training.
I hope that helps with that observation

MissJanice2: I relate to your comments, share your beliefs, have a military background and adhere strongly to principles policies and procedures many disagree with. Even in everyday living I follow a very ridged predetermined schedule.

(in reply to MissJanice2)

Post #: 76

RE: High Protocol Practices - 11/21/2009 4:52:37 PM

submissiveboy76

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Joined: 2/9/2008
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I don't think that protocol is rude at all. In fact, I really like the rules and regulations that serve as controlling mechanisms for the sub. Prescribed ways of doing things and behaving help with training. Protocol also helps both the Domme and sub be more comfortable. It can take away any awkwardness or bewilderment in how to act or what each party should be doing. It can also be used to help a sub please a Domme in EXACTLY the ways she wants to be pleased. For instance, there are certain ways a Domme might want her sub to clean her apartment, enter the room, prepare dinner, do the laundry, etc. Protocol can be used as a way to properly define all these activities.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 77

RE: High Protocol Practices - 11/22/2009 12:21:47 AM

Elisabella

Posts: 3939
Status: offline

-FR-

I'm a switch - I'd consider attending a high protocol evening *with* a submissive, but not *as* a submissive. I would be nervous, and I probably wouldn't go if I didn't have a friend who was familiar with the protocols who would coach me beforehand and attend with me, because I'm not into the 'fish out of water' type feeling...but then again only if I were attending as the dominant party.

I know there are some submissives who would thrive in a high protocol environment, but I think there are plenty of others like me who simply have no desire to act submissively to anyone other than their partner, and so for myself at least it's less of a "will I do something wrong" thing, and more like "I have no desire to apply these protocols to myself, so if protocol is required I'd rather not go."

< Message edited by Elisabella -- 11/22/2009 12:22:36 AM >

(in reply to submissiveboy76)

Post #: 78

RE: High Protocol Practices - 11/22/2009 2:42:35 AM

Vendaval

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Fast Reply -

I enjoy high protocol events so long as the expectations are explained before hand and there is preparation time for the event.

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So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
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(in reply to Andalusite)

Post #: 79

RE: High Protocol Practices - 11/22/2009 4:31:46 PM

mbes

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella
I know there are some submissives who would thrive in a high protocol environment, but I think there are plenty of others like me who simply have no desire to act submissively to anyone other than their partner, and so for myself at least it's less of a "will I do something wrong" thing, and more like "I have no desire to apply these protocols to myself, so if protocol is required I'd rather not go."

I agree wholeheartedly, and I'm not a switch. Yes, I'd go if my other half wished to, but it's entirely a ykinmk kind of thing.
As for "status" as mentioned in an earlier post, my status with my other half is defined. My status with anyone else begins as equals, and is defined otherwise exactly as in every other venue of life; it is not defined by self-determination as dom or sub.

(in reply to Elisabella)

Post #: 80

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