RE: whats the thought process here

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Knite064 -> RE: whats the thought process here (4/10/2009 6:06:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: InTonguesslave ive got the impression a few times on here from Dominants that, having to repeatedly request their sub/slave to do something gets tiresome, even to the point of considering releasing them. im wondering what the feelings/emotions/thoughts are when you have probably spent time and energy on the sub/slave in question to bring you to that dreaded conclusion that release is a real option. im wondering because most subs/slaves have a vested interest in their D. they are there because they are happy to be there and if failing at a task repeatedly becomes such a big issue maybe those of us who do fail need to understand the psyche of this. i know i do. im not necessarily talking about bdsm stuff, its more the pragmatic side of things. for instance: there is a task that Sir has repeatedly asked me to do. i have a dread of forms, a big, irrational dread of them. i havent said 'no i wont do that' i will go ahead and do it, but its a matter of overcoming this dread. its a major block - and before anyone says, why doesnt he help you with it, he's offered and i chose to do it for myself he said today that he cant be bothered to keep asking me. that made me feel terrible. so is it that it just gets exhausting, tiresome, irritating is it that refusing or failing to do a task questions the dynamic does it put into question the sincerity of the sub/slave and is there other stuff going on in there. Is nt able to complete a task? = its neither tiresome nor failing...I offer support where possible Refuses to complete a task? = discussion takes place and any points raised are reflected on Doesnt really want to ? = as above Agreement to complete but never getting round to it?=Now thats irritating and requires resolve (thats not just D/s i dislike that from anyone ...myself included) Could ultimately the failure to complete result in release?Highly unlikely over one task but patterns of similiar behaviour could yes but only after an open discussion.

Knite064 -> RE: whats the thought process here (4/10/2009 6:08:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hopeful68 good question.. I will be watching.. I would also like to ask additionally.. is it hard for Dominants to release a sub/slave.. does it affect them emotionally.. because.. every really truly Dominant man I have ever known in person.. they seem.. almost without emotion. I understand control.. but emotionless..? I can only answer for myself but ....i could not be involved in a D/s dynamic if i did nt care ...so release can be very hard yes.(Dont confuse the lack of emotion with dominance)

Padriag -> RE: whats the thought process here (4/10/2009 8:38:08 PM)
Steel did an excellent job of capturing the sorts of things that go through my mind when dealing with these types of situations. Generally, I'm very patient... particularly if I feel the submissive is making a genuine effort. But there is a limit to everything and a submissive who doesn't put forth much effort will find they quickly reach that limit. Last year saw the end of a relationship with a slave with whom I had this sort of problem quite a bit. It seemed like I was constantly having to push her to do things I considered to be ordinary or common tasks. Baking was a major endeavor for her, as was giving the house a thorough cleaning. There were also some "kinky" activities that she struggled with. Her inability to carry out various tasks as instructed became a major issue and ultimately resulted in the end of the relationship. While there is a part of me that was sad to see the relationship end, after all I'd spent more than 2 years developing that relationship... there was another part of me at the end that felt relieved. To this day I still have very mixed feelings about her and about the time I spent on her. For me, yes, it became exhausting and emotionally draining to deal with on a frequent basis. Had it just been one thing, perhaps it wouldn't have been a problem, but in my case there were a number "problem" areas and that became increasingly frustrating. There were times I snapped at her and told her she was a "heachache" out of irritation, which of course just made things worse. The fact that at the time I could find no way to break the cycle, no way to motivate her sufficiently, added to my frustration. I'm used to aggressively attacking problems, and often coming up with solutions very quickly... so this situation gradually became intolerable and caused a widening rift. Unconsciously I began to withdraw emotionally which probably left her feeling isolated and abandoned. Communication broke down and... the rest is history. Since then I've done a lot of analysis of what happened and why... how I handled things, my mistakes... her reactions and the reasons for them. I knew her well enough to know a lot about her childhood and past, her parents, school, how she was raised. One of the problems was she had a LOT of insecurity. Growing up she had learned to put some crushing expectations on herself which severely handicapped her ability to deal with new situations, and especially with failure. If she failed at something she tended to give up on it entirely and was very reluctant to try again. One of my mistakes was not fully understanding that about her. My conclusion has been that some submissives just aren't capable of overcoming that fear fully. Its so deeply ingrained that it will likely always be there, always limiting them. In those cases, I need to adjust some of my expectations accordingly, and at the same time try a more systematic, scaled down, approach to introducing new tasks and reinforcement.

MasterRaid -> RE: whats the thought process here (4/10/2009 9:31:31 PM)
It seems Steel answered intoungeslaves' question better than I could so I will no waste time on that question only to repeat his eloquence. quote: ORIGINAL: hopeful68 good question.. I will be watching.. I would also like to ask additionally.. is it hard for Dominants to release a sub/slave.. does it affect them emotionally.. because.. every really truly Dominant man I have ever known in person.. they seem.. almost without emotion. I understand control.. but emotionless..? I would like to respond to this one. Yes it is hard to release. I try to wait till I feel there is no other choice. The time where I have tried all that can be done. Given all the instruction, patience, care, and sometimes even a bit of dissapointment. When it comes to releasing a sub/slave I try to be objective, calm, and direct. A release is something that I feel should not be drug out. Lets face it when you release a sub/slave you are not doing it as a good thing (sometimes but for the most part No) You want it to be quick and done. So it can at times be seen as cold and unemotional. It is never intended but it can seem that way.

hopeful68 -> RE: whats the thought process here (4/10/2009 9:44:44 PM)
MasterRaid - thankyou for your input, it feels good to me to just hear words like that.. [:)]. I am a very emotionally centered person, probably to a fault, but I try and am learning how to keep my emotions from clouding my vision. I am always amazed at the strength and will of a Dominant.

manxcat -> RE: whats the thought process here (4/10/2009 9:50:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dreamerdreaming quote: ORIGINAL: hopeful68 good question.. I will be watching.. I would also like to ask additionally.. is it hard for Dominants to release a sub/slave.. does it affect them emotionally.. because.. every really truly Dominant man I have ever known in person.. they seem.. almost without emotion. I understand control.. but emotionless..? They have emotions, just as much as anybody else. They just hide them. From you, and maybe even from themselves. Don't settle for someone like this, it'll just cause you heartache. Especially if the person is not even letting himself feel his own feelings. Or even if they know how they feel but are just hiding it from significant others, this tells you they are very insecure. Very afraid. Run far away, because you can't help these kinds of people. They've got to help themselves. They've got to recognize the problem, and want to change. You cannot be the catalyst. They themselves must be, due the the nature of their problem. steps down from soap box I don't hide my emotions and know quite a few dominants who are also quite openly emotional. And i am not speaking of anger or displeasure either. manxcat

SteelofUtah -> RE: whats the thought process here (4/10/2009 10:01:11 PM)
hopeful68 on your subtopic of emotions. Although this is somewhat embarassing and always has been I feel it is important to share based on that you feel Dominants can be emotionless. I wish you to know that I cannot do what I do without emotion. Joy, Pleasure, Pride, Happiness, Sorrow, Misery, and the Gambit of what it is that some have called the "Human Condition" I happen to be a Cry'er. Yes I cry. A Lot actually, I am so tied into the Emotion of amazing joy and tortured sorrow that a commercial, a sad movie, a touching afterschool special about a father and son and I am all soppy. There are some men who would have you think that to cry is to be weak and showing signs of weakness at any time can be your ruin. My Father was like that..... God he hated when I'd cry. I was only ever ashamed of it because I was taught I was supposed to be. I cry without Blubbering and sobbing I just get choked up and the tears come and the nose gets runny. I call my Mom 3 to 4 times a week if not daily and we are close friends today. We cry over movies together. Movies such as 7 Pounds and Fireproof are hard not to cry over, hell I got about 5 minutes into August Rush before I got wispy. Now take all that I have just said and realize that when I end something that is as strong a Commitment as "Responsibility of a Human Life" I put dismissing a submissive right up there with putting a family member out on the street. I may not like it, but it may need to be done and for everyones good myself and the subs. I feel in situations like that it is best not to show emotion, not because I want to come off as cold hearted, but because I NEED the sub to know that it is OVER, there is no coming back and this is not a Test this is the actual End. I'm Shit for company for about a Month after that and I tend to Isolate so as not to be a Cancer on other people but Yes, to answer your question dismissing a submissive is VERY hard at least on this Dom. Steel

hopeful68 -> RE: whats the thought process here (4/10/2009 10:26:52 PM)
Steel - Thank you so much for that very open and sincere response. Literally it fills my heart with joy knowing that there is depth behind the coolness of a Dominant. And I for one appreciate a man that shows emotion, but I also understand the 'basic' make up of a man and know they are fundamentally different then woman. (please dont jump my shit everybody.. [:)]) I love the drastic differences in the sexes.

InTonguesslave -> RE: whats the thought process here (4/11/2009 3:14:30 AM)
hopeful - been thinking about this a little bit more. ive been coming to terms a little with the intense attention Sir gives to me and then the contrast of him not really paying me much attention atall. he has a life and my poly sis and there are times when im not going to be the center of his attention. i glow and shine when i am and the rest of the time i have to understand that i must wait my turn. he says that it isnt a question of priority, nothing and noone has priority over anything or anyone else, its simply that im not the only fish in his pond. what he seems to get bored with is the assumption on my part that when he isnt paying me any attention i automatically assume he's lost interest. thats my insecurities at work, i know, and im working hard to curb them. in the end we are all very complicated people and im realising that Sir is more than just the man i see and perceive to be, he has alot going on in his head, he goes at a speeed most people find hard to keep up with. i realise that it isnt all about me when im alone in my head. im trying to focus away from what i feel i need and realise that to have this man in my life i have to go with it, whatever 'it' is. sometimes its nothing atall, sometimes i miss him and then his gaze falls on me and im the center of the universe again. its about adapting to the polarities because the men we have chosen to tangle up with are complicated too.

Focus50 -> RE: whats the thought process here (4/11/2009 4:51:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: InTonguesslave ive got the impression a few times on here from Dominants that, having to repeatedly request their sub/slave to do something gets tiresome, even to the point of considering releasing them. im wondering what the feelings/emotions/thoughts are when you have probably spent time and energy on the sub/slave in question to bring you to that dreaded conclusion that release is a real option. im wondering because most subs/slaves have a vested interest in their D. they are there because they are happy to be there and if failing at a task repeatedly becomes such a big issue maybe those of us who do fail need to understand the psyche of this. i know i do. im not necessarily talking about bdsm stuff, its more the pragmatic side of things. for instance: there is a task that Sir has repeatedly asked me to do. i have a dread of forms, a big, irrational dread of them. i havent said 'no i wont do that' i will go ahead and do it, but its a matter of overcoming this dread. its a major block - and before anyone says, why doesnt he help you with it, he's offered and i chose to do it for myself he said today that he cant be bothered to keep asking me. that made me feel terrible. so is it that it just gets exhausting, tiresome, irritating is it that refusing or failing to do a task questions the dynamic does it put into question the sincerity of the sub/slave and is there other stuff going on in there. It's a much worse feeling than merely this.... It's the realisation you're no longer in a position of leadership when it's apparent no-one is following. Which makes one question why I'm even bothering (with this relationship). If it's more than a relationship glitch or the result of some temporary outside/distractive influence etc, then it's likely to become terminal. And let's be clear, I utterly loathe the sound of my own voice repeating itself adnauseum - been there; done that in previous vanilla relationships and that's why I won't go there again. And for the record, failing to achieve a given task isn't an issue to me - failing to do her best at it IS...! Focus.

LaTigresse -> RE: whats the thought process here (4/11/2009 6:54:20 AM)
Lally, I want to thank you for this thread. It made me think of all of this from a submissive/slave perspective. Something I sometimes struggle with. If I request someone do something that seems easy to me and it doesn't get done, I do withdraw emotionally because I do take it personally. "If you cannot do this for me, you do not want to belong to me, you don't care about me, you do not respect me or my dominance...etc"

agirl -> RE: whats the thought process here (4/11/2009 7:28:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: InTonguesslave there is a task that Sir has repeatedly asked me to do. i have a dread of forms, a big, irrational dread of them. i havent said 'no i wont do that' i will go ahead and do it, but its a matter of overcoming this dread. its a major block - and before anyone says, why doesnt he help you with it, he's offered and i chose to do it for myself he said today that he cant be bothered to keep asking me. that made me feel terrible. If the form is something to do with your own life and for your own benefit, there is a point when you have to either DO it or take the help offered, to do it. I can't expect to have constant effort put in on my behalf, if I'm not putting effort in and I've been told that categorically. I've been in a similar position and told almost the same thing and it made the point rather well. It's not just that it's tiresome but it's wasted time and effort on his part. If I'm going to choose to do it myself, he not only expects me to, he'll expect it done in a time-frame which he'll make me choose myself. If I keep chucking his effort and interest in his face, then yes, he will leave it to me to sink or swim and suffer the alternative..which in your case, would be, an unfilled-in form and the withdrawal of interest in it. If his interest isn't aiding you, I can see why he'd stop bothering asking..because perhaps realising that he is going to stop bothering WILL. agirl

hopeful68 -> RE: whats the thought process here (4/11/2009 9:09:53 AM)
quote: ive been coming to terms a little with the intense attention Sir gives to me and then the contrast of him not really paying me much attention atall. Yes.. quote: what he seems to get bored with is the assumption on my part that when he isnt paying me any attention i automatically assume he's lost interest. This is true for me as well. For me this falls directly under, insecurities and doubt on my part, and I know it. I have made a very direct effort to change my thinking is this matter. We are not poly, but it feels very much the same or as if we are. The main difference is that his time is being taken by work and his everyday life. I am not collared or owned by him, I am single (basically..lol) and want it that way right now. I enjoy my life and my 'freedoms'. But desire to one day be 24/7. quote: he goes at a speeed most people find hard to keep up with This is true in my case as well. Smart, educated, funny, and busy. quote: i realise that it isnt all about me when im alone in my head. im trying to focus away from what i feel i need and realise that to have this man in my life i have to go with it, whatever 'it' is. sometimes its nothing atall, sometimes i miss him and then his gaze falls on me and im the center of the universe again. its about adapting to the polarities because the men we have chosen to tangle up with are complicated too. Very well put indeed Lally

InTonguesslave -> RE: whats the thought process here (4/11/2009 10:00:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: agirl quote: ORIGINAL: InTonguesslave there is a task that Sir has repeatedly asked me to do. i have a dread of forms, a big, irrational dread of them. i havent said 'no i wont do that' i will go ahead and do it, but its a matter of overcoming this dread. its a major block - and before anyone says, why doesnt he help you with it, he's offered and i chose to do it for myself he said today that he cant be bothered to keep asking me. that made me feel terrible. If the form is something to do with your own life and for your own benefit, there is a point when you have to either DO it or take the help offered, to do it. I can't expect to have constant effort put in on my behalf, if I'm not putting effort in and I've been told that categorically. I've been in a similar position and told almost the same thing and it made the point rather well. It's not just that it's tiresome but it's wasted time and effort on his part. If I'm going to choose to do it myself, he not only expects me to, he'll expect it done in a time-frame which he'll make me choose myself. If I keep chucking his effort and interest in his face, then yes, he will leave it to me to sink or swim and suffer the alternative..which in your case, would be, an unfilled-in form and the withdrawal of interest in it. If his interest isn't aiding you, I can see why he'd stop bothering asking..because perhaps realising that he is going to stop bothering WILL. agirl withdrawal of interest is like a slap in the face youre right. actually D's - its a very powerful tool when its something that has to be done no matter what and youre sick of beefing on about it. and often if something is removed (like his interest/help) it creates a vaccum i feel compelled to fill/follow, im guessing thats the same for lots of people - certainly is for my cat ive noticed [:)]. you open a door, any damn door and she blows through it for no other reason than its open and she can. OMG!, ive just been talking about squeezy and she's been dead for months - isnt that odd. anyhoo, yes - another angle i hadnt thought about. sneaky of them though, thats very sneaky [:D]

InTonguesslave -> RE: whats the thought process here (4/11/2009 10:18:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse Lally, I want to thank you for this thread. It made me think of all of this from a submissive/slave perspective. Something I sometimes struggle with. If I request someone do something that seems easy to me and it doesn't get done, I do withdraw emotionally because I do take it personally. "If you cannot do this for me, you do not want to belong to me, you don't care about me, you do not respect me or my dominance...etc" youre so incredibly welcome. its helped me to realise that nothing is cut and dried or ruthless - it might sometimes feel that way but actually the emotions going on inside of you guys are just as strong, only hidden. the highlighted part: that isnt how it is atall, for me anyway. i never ever thought of it as my rejection of Sir or of me in any way devaluing his time and energy. its horrible to discover that is what ive been doing tho. because i believe i give him pleasure in lots of other ways, a stupid form comes along and i really dont see it as a big deal - i understand that he does, (now). that because he has made the request, its as important to him for me do that thing, as it is for me to be kneeling infront of him naked and open to him. that was me putting a higher value on one thing and no value on other things and that isnt my place to do - throw in the whole confusing independence/codependence thingy. 'is this mine to do when i can get around to it/can be bothered/absolutely have to or ill go to prison' type of thing when, though it is on one level, on another level it isnt, the choice was taken away the moment Sir sidled up to it and said 'Oi, whats this!' he did say once i probably should be lobotomised - i think he was joking tho [&:]

agirl -> RE: whats the thought process here (4/11/2009 10:26:10 AM)
Perhaps that's a difference......I don't get to beef on. If I grumble about something , I'll get his willing and happy help. If I ignore his help, it's not a bright idea to raise the subject again unless it's to say that I've done it.....lol agirl

Padriag -> RE: whats the thought process here (4/11/2009 10:46:32 AM)
Two statements I wanted to put together because between them they spell out something I personally very much relate to. quote: ORIGINAL: InTonguesslave in the end we are all very complicated people and im realising that Sir is more than just the man i see and perceive to be, he has alot going on in his head, he goes at a speeed most people find hard to keep up with. and... quote: ORIGINAL: agirl I can't expect to have constant effort put in on my behalf, if I'm not putting effort in and I've been told that categorically. I've been in a similar position and told almost the same thing and it made the point rather well. It's not just that it's tiresome but it's wasted time and effort on his part. If I'm going to choose to do it myself, he not only expects me to, he'll expect it done in a time-frame which he'll make me choose myself. If I keep chucking his effort and interest in his face, then yes, he will leave it to me to sink or swim and suffer the alternative..which in your case, would be, an unfilled-in form and the withdrawal of interest in it. If his interest isn't aiding you, I can see why he'd stop bothering asking..because perhaps realising that he is going to stop bothering WILL. I have a LOT going on in my life... and usually even more going on in my head. I'm a very goal oriented person, always making various plans and pursuing various ideas, and I tend to be very demanding of myself. Most people take a look at my schedule, my endeavors, the various organizations and groups I'm part of, etc.... and choke, they wonder where I find the time. I find the time by being organized and by being efficient. One of the results of this is that it becomes very annoying to me to see a slave who can't accomplish what I consider to be simple and ordinary tasks, requiring me to take even more time out of my schedule to coach them through it. For example, the slave I mentioned previously had a hard time with house work. She'd never been taught very much about it growing up, so she knew very little of the particulars... what sorts of cleaners to be used where, how best to clean this or that, etc. I've cleaned up after myself most of my life and tend to take that knowledge for granted (I was taught to help with laundry, clean house, cook, etc. at an early age). My expectation, which turned out to be less than realistic, was to tell her to clean the house while I was working and for her to get it done and if she didn't know how to do something to find out or figure it out on her own. So one day I come home and she very proudly announced she'd managed to do the dishes and mop the downstairs floors. She was proud of herself... I was disappointed. From her perspective she'd done more than she'd managed before on her own, from mine it was a good deal less than what I expected. For me, its normal to take one day a week to clean the house top to bottom... mop the floors, dust the furniture, clean the dishes, clean the stove, organize the frig, etc. It was at some point after that I realized I was going to have to spend a lot of time working with her to teach her to do that... and at the same time battle with her feelings of failure, which overwhelmed her anytime she didn't succeed at something on the first try. And that this process would have to be repeated for the list of tasks I expected of her, with which she seemed to be challenged. I felt depressed. Part of the irony is that one of the things that brought me to this lifestyle, to desire a slave, was a desire to have someone who would fit herself into my life (instead of making huge demands like most women I'd known who wanted to be pampered and catered too), and help save me some time... in addition to a relationship and companionship. Instead, I've found most slaves to require more effort and time from me, at least for the first year or two. And because of that realization, and realizing what an investment of my already limited time a training a new slave is... I've gotten very, very, very picky. But I've also resigned myself to the reality that I do not and will not have time for a new slave until I can slow my life down some... which I'm currently working on doing.

InTonguesslave -> RE: whats the thought process here (4/11/2009 11:46:34 AM)
Part of the irony is that one of the things that brought me to this lifestyle, to desire a slave, was a desire to have someone who would fit herself into my life (instead of making huge demands like most women I'd known who wanted to be pampered and catered too), and help save me some time... in addition to a relationship and companionship. Instead, I've found most slaves to require more effort and time from me, at least for the first year or two. quote padriag the pampered bit stings..., Sir said today he pampers misst and i too much. personally i dont see it [:D] anyhoo, im thinking about other relationships, family, friends - the little struggles they had were different, more power struggles really and whose turn was it to take out the rubbish, underpants left on a wet bathroom floor was one thing my sis in law was forever lamenting over. my younger bro has been struggling with a wife who loves to spend money they dont have, a really good girl friend of mine has been struggling for a while with lost trust. my point: it would be wonderful to find someone you deeply fancy, who makes you laugh, makes youre coffee how you like it, gives great head, takes all of youre bdsm needs in her stride and steps up to youre standards in an instant. but we're talking unlikely here - discharging our 'ways' to adopt anothers means learning all over again, or in the case of the slave youre talking about, learning for the first time to do something she has no knowledge of. i can really relate to her. my housework efforts are functional at best. i have a friend who is skilled in housework, brilliant, she turns a home into something a magazine would take pictures of, she's talented that way - she's also a stubborn pain in the arse ( i love her deeply, but she is and she knows it). we come to you with our imperfections, we all have them and it takes time to adopt to another persons ways. alot of it is mental reprocessing and i do think that sometimes that isnt always seen for the major gear grinding exercise that it is at times. Sir goes at a pace i find breathtaking to be honest, you sound the same. trying to keep up with him whilst also trying to remember to be everything else, do everything else, remember everything else, change old habits for new - and still bob up smiling when he's strapped nine shades of hades into my bum - well, i mean, cut us some slack here!!![:D] just cos we're submissive doesnt make us automatically primed for perfection.

allthatjaz -> RE: whats the thought process here (4/11/2009 12:13:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dreamerdreaming quote: ORIGINAL: hopeful68 good question.. I will be watching.. I would also like to ask additionally.. is it hard for Dominants to release a sub/slave.. does it affect them emotionally.. because.. every really truly Dominant man I have ever known in person.. they seem.. almost without emotion. I understand control.. but emotionless..? They have emotions, just as much as anybody else. They just hide them. From you, and maybe even from themselves. Don't settle for someone like this, it'll just cause you heartache. Especially if the person is not even letting himself feel his own feelings. Or even if they know how they feel but are just hiding it from significant others, this tells you they are very insecure. Very afraid. Run far away, because you can't help these kinds of people. They've got to help themselves. They've got to recognize the problem, and want to change. You cannot be the catalyst. They themselves must be, due the the nature of their problem. steps down from soap box Oh I agree with this. If a dominant man can show no emotion then its for one of two reasons. Either he couldn't give a darn about you or he's trying too hard to be a dominant. A real dominant is just another person with real emotions. They love, they adore, they get there hearts broken just like the vanilla man/woman. Maria

Interesdom -> RE: whats the thought process here (4/11/2009 1:14:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: InTonguesslave ive got the impression a few times on here from Dominants that, having to repeatedly request their sub/slave to do something gets tiresome, even to the point of considering releasing them. im wondering what the feelings/emotions/thoughts are when you have probably spent time and energy on the sub/slave in question to bring you to that dreaded conclusion that release is a real option. Release - or transfer - is an option I must consider when a sub/slave is refusing to get over some issue that is important to me. I can handle inability; emotional backlash; mental blockages etc. and can normally (certainly not always) find a resolution to such things. But if I encounter outright dig-the-heels-in obstinacy, I start wondering whether I want her. Regardless of the effort put in up until that point. quote: ORIGINAL: InTonguesslave im wondering because most subs/slaves have a vested interest in their D. they are there because they are happy to be there and if failing at a task repeatedly becomes such a big issue maybe those of us who do fail need to understand the psyche of this. i know i do. im not necessarily talking about bdsm stuff, its more the pragmatic side of things. for instance: there is a task that Sir has repeatedly asked me to do. i have a dread of forms, a big, irrational dread of them. i havent said 'no i wont do that' i will go ahead and do it, but its a matter of overcoming this dread. its a major block - and before anyone says, why doesnt he help you with it, he's offered and i chose to do it for myself he said today that he cant be bothered to keep asking me. that made me feel terrible. I think that it would have been appropriate if you had already been feeling terrible. You failed on a task, you turned down his assistance, you continued to fail on a task: how did you feel about this? quote: ORIGINAL: InTonguesslave so is it that it just gets exhausting, tiresome, irritating is it that refusing or failing to do a task questions the dynamic does it put into question the sincerity of the sub/slave and is there other stuff going on in there. Continuous refusals are very tiring. If I wanted a bunch of refusals, I'd approach the local homeless and ask for a million pounds. If I want an obedient, worthwhile, woman who lightens my load at least as much as she burdens it, I look for a sub/slave. There's always more stuff going on. Often the best way through difficult times is by extremities of whatever the dynamic; for you, this would mean: put in extreme effort, extreme submission, extreme openness, extreme acceptance. quote: ORIGINAL: hopeful68 .. is it hard for Dominants to release a sub/slave.. does it affect them emotionally.. because.. every really truly Dominant man I have ever known in person.. they seem.. almost without emotion. I understand control.. but emotionless..? I am certainly not emotionless but if I determine that I need to release (or pass on in to another) a sub/slave then I have the strength to get on and do it. I might very well hurt but I am the ultimate source of that pain, so it's something I deal with and I suppose externally it might therefore appear as though I am emotionless. A dominant has to be able to override their own desires at times, or they will be hostage to emotion - and therefore to someone else. [Edited typo]

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