RE: whats the thought process here (Full Version)

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DesFIP -> RE: whats the thought process here (4/11/2009 2:32:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

If I request someone do something that seems easy to me and it doesn't get done, I do withdraw emotionally because I do take it personally.



The problem here lies in the fact that just because it is easy for you, it will be easy for everyone. If I have a problem with something, and am impatiently told that there is no reason for me to have a problem, because it's a very simple task then my self doubt cuts in. If it's so easy, and I can't do it, then it can't be that it really isn't easy. What's going on here is that obviously I'm a failure, and a stupid one at that. Because otherwise I'd be able to do this very easy task.

So now I'm not only a failure, I'm a stupid person as well, stupid, incompetent, useless etc. And none of this is going to help me in dealing with a task that was overwhelming to me in the first place.



MasterDarkSadist -> RE: whats the thought process here (4/11/2009 5:24:42 PM)

To answer the first question, yes, most of the time, if we have taken the time and effort and gotten to a point of collaring a girl (different perspectives, but this is from My experience), the it is difficult to do. 

HOWEVER

Being dominant is not just about having fun, it is also about making tough decisions.  Once a slave has shown that they have no regard for what I ask of them, then they are no longer being a slave to me (no longer desire it).  If that point has come, then the relationship is over.  I would have tried everything I could to change that fact before I released her, but in the end if I could not remedy that situation, she would be released for both of our good.

Also, this reply is in regards to tasks that are routine, etc...not out of the ordinary, or difficult tasks which may require help from myself. 

There is a difference in being unable, and unwilling.  My post is about the unwilling aspect, not the unable side of it.

I teach my girls to come to me with their concerns before it becomes a problem.  I address them in a manner that will resolve the situation.  I do not expect perfection, in all reality, I expect a certain amount of failure (human nature).  As I said, there is a difference between unwilling and unable.  Hell, I would rather they try, fail, and come to me for guidance, then to fail before even trying.




littlewonder -> RE: whats the thought process here (4/11/2009 8:31:09 PM)

I haven't read through all the responses but if you have this huge a fear of filling out a form, have you thought about talking to a therapist? Maybe there's some kind of learning disability or just a mental block that therapy can help you deal with?

I'm not a Domme but I have this same problem with my "little one" where I keep repeating for her to do something and she keeps saying she will but yet it never ever gets done. I'm currently in the process of getting her to go for a passport..not a hard task at all but she keeps putting it off.

I'm now to the point where I've told her "alright..it's on your head then. I'm no longer going to tell you again. It's no longer my responsibility in any way. It's all in your hands now. Either go and get it or don't and then you face the consequences of not going overseas this summer and losing out on a ton of cash already paid by you."

Yup, let them face the consequences of their actions.

In the end that's what will happen with you. He'll stop talking to himself, he'll get fed up, you will lose out on whatever the forms are for and he'll no longer ask you to do anything anymore if he does decide to keep you.

I know for me if Master did that to me I'd feel like the biggest loser in the entire world and it would kill me. I couldn't live with that impact.

So who has control of you? Master or the form?



Padriag -> RE: whats the thought process here (4/11/2009 9:28:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

The problem here lies in the fact that just because it is easy for you, it will be easy for everyone.
 
True enough, and a perspective dominants should keep in mind.  I think for some of us dominants, and definitely for myself, we take some things for granted because our own personalities "blind" us to some extent.  Using myself for example, as I've already made clear cleaning house is something I consider a very common task, same for doing the dishes or laundry, or cooking, or writing a letter.  Over the years I've learned how daunting all those various things can be to others, and each time it was surprising to me.  Take writing a letter, for me writing is effortless and common place... I've been writing letters and essays and fiction almost since I was old enough to read and write.  That made it difficult to relate to friends in HS who had a great deal of trouble writing a simple letter or composing a short essay or story... and an easy way for me to make some extra cash... but I digress.  Likewise, submissives should keep in mind that if they are having trouble with something they need to explain that to their dominant, because otherwise the dominant may simply not understand.  I'm not saying make excuses, if you are told to do something, do it.  But while working at doing it, explain what is giving you trouble with the task.  

quote:

If I have a problem with something, and am impatiently told that there is no reason for me to have a problem, because it's a very simple task then my self doubt cuts in.  If it's so easy, and I can't do it, then it can't be that it really isn't easy. What's going on here is that obviously I'm a failure, and a stupid one at that. Because otherwise I'd be able to do this very easy task.

I can't begin to count how often I've witnessed something like this.  It presents a few problems.  First, its still no excuse for not putting forth every effort at whatever the assigned task is.  Doubt, fear, insecurity, uncertainty, etc. are no excuse for a submissive not to try and to do their personal best.   Letting that self doubt and insecurity take over is very destructive and will often drive a submissive to sabotage themselves.  As I said above, the submissive needs to express these fears to their dominant.  Let the dominant know about the self doubts, the fear of failure, rejection, or whatever else may be involved.  Ask for more detailed instructions, ask for help, ask for guidance... communicate.

Yet I've often seen submissives who won't.  Sometimes out of fear of being told they are a "headache" again, or fear of disappointing the dominant again.  Get over it, because if you don't communicate you're almost certainly going to disappoint again anyway.  Some won't because they don't want too look foolish, they don't want to appear stupid, etc.  That's ego... and that's a luxury a submissive can ill afford.  If you can kneel naked in front of your dominant, why can't you look stupid in front of your dominant?  Heh... maybe us dominants ought to put submissives through a few "looking stupid" exercises... just to get you over that fear of appearing silly in front of us.  Its not as big of a deal to us as you might imagine.  I can deal with dumb questions a whole lot better than I can a submissive who keeps failing to carry out a simple task.



Padriag -> RE: whats the thought process here (4/11/2009 10:03:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslave

the pampered bit stings..., Sir said today he pampers misst and i too much.  personally i dont see it [image]http://www.collarchat.com/image/s2.gif[/image]

Can't really address this, as its a subjective opinion... I have no idea if you are pampered or not compared to what I consider pampered.  But just for some perspective... compared to some other dominants I've known, how I typically treat a slave would be considered pampering by them.  By others, I'm considered a hard ass.  It's all relative. 
 
quote:

anyhoo, im thinking about other relationships, family, friends - the little struggles they had were different, more power struggles really and whose turn was it to take out the rubbish, underpants left on a wet bathroom floor was one thing my sis in law was forever lamenting over.  my younger bro has been struggling with a wife who loves to spend money they dont have, a really good girl friend of mine has been struggling for a while with lost trust. 
 
my point:  it would be wonderful to find someone you deeply fancy, who makes you laugh, makes youre coffee how you like it, gives great head, takes all of youre bdsm needs in her stride and steps up to youre standards in an instant.  but we're talking unlikely here -

Oh don't I know it!  I freely admit to being a picky bastard.  But more seriously, it truly is and always has been a problem for me.  I've realized that among other things, I was simply raised very differently than most people I know.  I grew up in a home that was happy, my parents loved each other very much and showed it (and still do).  I had a mother who kept a very clean, organized house.  She taught me to cook, clean, sew, care for my clothes, etc.  My father taught me to read, taught me to find answers to my endless questions on my own (my mother has joked my first word was "Why?" an I have shut up since).  They weren't perfect, mom was over protective, dad was emotionally distant... but not uncommon problems.  The end result was I grew up with a set of skills and expectations I've found a minority of people share.  That does make it difficult for me to find common ground with others... at least when it comes to personal relationships.

So yeah, I can make a great breakfast, mend socks, fix the kitchen sink, and my house if generally spotless... but finding a woman who can live with that has proven remarkably tough.  Everything has it's price.

quote:

discharging our 'ways' to adopt anothers means learning all over again, or in the case of the slave youre talking about, learning for the first time to do something she has no knowledge of.  i can really relate to her.  my housework efforts are functional at best.  i have a friend who is skilled in housework, brilliant, she turns a home into something a magazine would take pictures of, she's talented that way - she's also a stubborn pain in the arse ( i love her deeply, but she is and she knows it).

we come to you with our imperfections, we all have them and it takes time to adopt to another persons ways.  alot of it is mental reprocessing and i do think that sometimes that isnt always seen for the major gear grinding exercise that it is at times.

I've given that more thought than you can imagine... and more than she'll ever know.  I've looked back at different situations and noted the difference in how I handled them.  For example, I taught her to use a tile saw... something she'd never done and was terrified of.  I was very patient with her about it... though firm.  And she did it.  She cut almost every piece of tile I put in the downstairs bathroom of my house, and it turned out great.  The only cuts I did were a couple that were really complicated and just not something I would ask of any beginner.  Then I compared that to how I handled her "performance" when it came to house work... I was markedly less patient.  I've since realized that part of that came from my own internal expectations... house work is something I expect anyone to pick up quickly because its something I consider pretty simple and common.  Operating a tile saw is something I recognized was entirely out of her and most people's realm of experience, and thus something that needed extra guidance and patience.  Was that unfair of me... perhaps... but also very human.  Its something I'll keep in mind for the future.  But, none-the-less, she should have been more communicative about what she didn't understand, what her fears were, etc.  I'd known this girl for over two years, she'd lived in my home full time for about a year of that...by that time I expected her to have picked up more and I don't believe those expectations were at all unreasonable.

quote:

Sir goes at a pace i find breathtaking to be honest, you sound the same.  trying to keep up with him whilst also trying to remember to be everything else, do everything else, remember everything else, change old habits for new - and still bob up smiling when he's strapped nine shades of hades into my bum - well, i mean, cut us some slack here!!![image]http://www.collarchat.com/image/s2.gif[/image]

Sure, I agree some understanding and patience it required.  I don't expect anyone to keep up with the pace I set for myself... I realize that for you mere mortals (that's a joke folks) that's asking too much. [image]http://www.collarchat.com/image/s4.gif[/image]  But I do expect steady progress in some areas.  I have realized that in the future I need to be more aware of the difficulties others may have with things I think are very basic... for some, baking cookies is just as far out of their realm of experience as operating a tile saw... and one will take just as much guidance and patience on my part as the other.  I don't expect to find anyone who fits neatly into my life, but I have become more aware of what I qualities I look for with a mind towards finding someone who is a better fit than my last slave.  Not to put her down (I may be very disappointed with her, but on some level there's a part of me that still cares about her, I spent a bit over two years on her after all... that emotional connection just doesn't disappear, regardless of how things turn out), but she and I turned out not to be a very good match for each other... even had I been more patient in some areas, I'm not sure how well it would have worked in the long run.  Leason learned. 



SailingBum -> RE: whats the thought process here (4/11/2009 11:32:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslave

ive got the impression a few times on here from Dominants that, having to repeatedly request their sub/slave to do something gets tiresome, even to the point of considering releasing them. 



Hey babeee, 

If I had to constantly keep telling/nagging my bitch to do as I told her to do like a "teenager"  She would be gone it's really that simple.  Which means I expect to a like a adult.  I get pretty irritated if I have to tell her twice.  With that said I don't have a laundry list of stuff she has to do.  But when I tell her to do sometime I expect it done. 

I've been lucky in my relationships, rarely in any of them have I had to repeat myself.  They know what is expected of them and acted accordingly.

Hope that helps.  Lustfully BadOne



agirl -> RE: whats the thought process here (4/12/2009 3:34:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Lally, I want to thank you for this thread. It made me think of all of this from a submissive/slave perspective. Something I sometimes struggle with.

If I request someone do something that seems easy to me and it doesn't get done, I do withdraw emotionally because I do take it personally.

"If you cannot do this for me, you do not want to belong to me, you don't care about me, you do not respect me or my dominance...etc"


If I was asked to do something *for him* it would be a different kettle of fish. If I repeatedly agreed to do something *for* someone and repeatedly didn't do it, I'd expect them to feel the way you mentioned above.

There's a difference between being asked to do something FOR your dom, and being offered help to do something for YOURSELF.

agirl







agirl -> RE: whats the thought process here (4/12/2009 3:54:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

If I request someone do something that seems easy to me and it doesn't get done, I do withdraw emotionally because I do take it personally.



The problem here lies in the fact that just because it is easy for you, it will be easy for everyone. If I have a problem with something, and am impatiently told that there is no reason for me to have a problem, because it's a very simple task then my self doubt cuts in. If it's so easy, and I can't do it, then it can't be that it really isn't easy. What's going on here is that obviously I'm a failure, and a stupid one at that. Because otherwise I'd be able to do this very easy task.

So now I'm not only a failure, I'm a stupid person as well, stupid, incompetent, useless etc. And none of this is going to help me in dealing with a task that was overwhelming to me in the first place.


Yes, I would feel similarly if it was assumed that I should be able to *do* things simply because it's not a problem for someone else. I can feel useless all by myself, I don't need it highlighted and re-enforced....lol

agirl









agirl -> RE: whats the thought process here (4/12/2009 4:25:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslave


we come to you with our imperfections, we all have them and it takes time to adopt to another persons ways.  alot of it is mental reprocessing and i do think that sometimes that isnt always seen for the major gear grinding exercise that it is at times.

Sir goes at a pace i find breathtaking to be honest, you sound the same.  trying to keep up with him whilst also trying to remember to be everything else, do everything else, remember everything else, change old habits for new - and still bob up smiling when he's strapped nine shades of hades into my bum - well, i mean, cut us some slack here!!![:D]

just cos we're submissive doesnt make us automatically primed for perfection.


I haven't been asked to, or expected to adopt M's ways .........I've been offered tools and guidance to make my OWN ways effective.

These things aren't about *submission* for me unless I've actually handed the problem to him. If I ask for his help then by GOD I will get it and it will get done by his method, in the way of his choosing. I *submit* to getting what I asked for, basically.

It's not about perfection at all. I'm not living up to something HE wants. I already AM that. I don't go at his pace, I concentrate on going at my own pace and so does he. There only needs to be forward motion and sincerity.

agirl







DotarSojat -> RE: whats the thought process here (4/12/2009 4:30:28 AM)

My nickles worth for what it is worth in all these well written opinions and essays is to do what I always tell my subs. Do what you can first then go back to the hard stuff. You don't swallow an elephant whole, you take small bites till it is done. Don't look at the size of this form. Look at one question at a time. I scanned through these replies and I don't think I am repeating anyone. I apologize if I am. [sm=2cents.gif]



N4SDChastity -> RE: whats the thought process here (4/15/2009 11:27:14 AM)

I read thru some, but not ALL of the responses.  I will not try to answer anything specific, as, from what I see, others had done that more than adequately.  Instead, I will address (as others have also done) the overall dynamic, as *I* see it...

D/s is very much like a parent/child relationship, in many aspects.  With children (in general, not just YOUR children) you try to teach/lead them to a point where they can function on their own.  To be able to know not to open the door to just any olde stranger, for instance, even if they claim they are inspecting the internet lines for blockages.  To know that they can think their way through a problem without always resorting to "Hey MOM!!!," or "Hey DAD!!!"  To dress, feed, and function for themselves.  Unless, of course, you are a Dom(me) in search/posession  of an abuse-sponge, that is.

So, to that end, you try, as best as you know how (just like ANY parent does) to facilitate that growth, understanding, and selfreliance, to some degree.  As someone mentioned, some degree of failure is expected.  No one is perfect (not even <GASP!!!> Dom(me)s).  But, to throw up your hands in defeat, without giving it your best, will generate exasperation in anyone attempting to teach/lead you.

My intended sub, and I, have established a manner of communicating whereby she can convey her level of compliance without incurring my wrath:
"Yes, my Prince," shows that she will.
"Only if it pleases you, my Prince," conveys her reluctance, but compliance.  At this point it is incumbent upon ME to either address her reluctant compliance, or risk losing her respect for me.  If I cannot convince her that my rational is sound, and she does comply; should something go wrong, I may lose my most precious commodity.
"Not unless it pleases you, my Prince," means this COULD be a deal-breaker, for her.  If I continue to insist, without taking her needs/feelings/wants/desires into account as both an individual AND a woman, she just may walk away, forever.

We both understand the implications and ramifications of our actions; we are BOTH adults, after all.  Her agreeing to submit to my personality does not erase her humanity, right?  Hopefully, we also have enough trust in each other to discuss, rationally, any difficulties either of us may have with the other.  Adults in an adult relationship.  Consentual.  Inherent in that consent is communications.  The more we do it, the more we each understand the others needs, both as thinking/reasoning beings, and within our D/s covennant.

To the OP:
You should seek to communicate, more effectively, your reluctances, when they crop up.  Both THAT they exist, and what the potential drivers may be.
To the poster with concerns about Dom(me)s walking away from their subs:
It is a relationship.  As simple as that.  When one party perceives tha it has ended, it is not as though they do not retain some remnant of feelings for the other, or lack the capacity to show remorse, but ONE of you HAS to be strong enough to sever the ties so that BOTH of you can move on.  Being in a D/s relationship does not obviate that necessity.  In fact, in some ways, it amplifies it.

<turns off microphone, steps back from the podium, faces left and exits stage right... a smattering of applause is heard from waaaaaaay in back>



hopeful68 -> RE: whats the thought process here (4/15/2009 11:35:37 AM)

quote:


D/s is very much like a parent/child relationship, in many aspects.  With children (in general, not just YOUR children) you try to teach/lead them to a point where they can function on their own.  To be able to know not to open the door to just any olde stranger, for instance, even if they claim they are inspecting the internet lines for blockages.  To know that they can think their way through a problem without always resorting to "Hey MOM!!!," or "Hey DAD!!!"  To dress, feed, and function for themselves.  Unless, of course, you are a Dom(me) in search/posession  of an abuse-sponge, that is.

So, to that end, you try, as best as you know how (just like ANY parent does) to facilitate that growth, understanding, and selfreliance, to some degree.  As someone mentioned, some degree of failure is expected.  No one is perfect (not even <GASP!!!> Dom(me)s).  But, to throw up your hands in defeat, without giving it your best, will generate exasperation in anyone attempting to teach/lead you.

My intended sub, and I, have established a manner of communicating whereby she can convey her level of compliance without incurring my wrath:
"Yes, my Prince," shows that she will.
"Only if it pleases you, my Prince," conveys her reluctance, but compliance.  At this point it is incumbent upon ME to either address her reluctant compliance, or risk losing her respect for me.  If I cannot convince her that my rational is sound, and she does comply; should something go wrong, I may lose my most precious commodity.
"Not unless it pleases you, my Prince," means this COULD be a deal-breaker, for her.  If I continue to insist, without taking her needs/feelings/wants/desires into account as both an individual AND a woman, she just may walk away, forever.

We both understand the implications and ramifications of our actions; we are BOTH adults, after all.  Her agreeing to submit to my personality does not erase her humanity, right?  Hopefully, we also have enough trust in each other to discuss, rationally, any difficulties either of us may have with the other.  Adults in an adult relationship.  Consentual.  Inherent in that consent is communications.  The more we do it, the more we each understand the others needs, both as thinking/reasoning beings, and within our D/s covennant.


wonderfully said Sir.

quote:

  <turns off microphone, steps back from the podium, faces left and exits stage right... a smattering of applause is heard from waaaaaaay in back>


~grins~



heartfeltsub -> RE: whats the thought process here (4/15/2009 1:17:00 PM)

There was an expression that i learned while taking classes to become an elementary school teacher which has been one of the best things that i have ever learned and that is EIK, which stands for Easy If Known. Everything is easy if one already knows how to do it, nothing is easy if one doesn't. Depending upon a person's makeup, etc. somethings are easier to pick up than others, but as has already been mentioned previously, to be told that something is easy when it is something that you personally are struggling with simply compounds one's inability to "get it".

heartfelt



DesFIP -> RE: whats the thought process here (4/15/2009 8:18:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

I can't begin to count how often I've witnessed something like this.  It presents a few problems.  First, its still no excuse for not putting forth every effort at whatever the assigned task is.  Doubt, fear, insecurity, uncertainty, etc. are no excuse for a submissive not to try and to do their personal best.   Letting that self doubt and insecurity take over is very destructive and will often drive a submissive to sabotage themselves.  As I said above, the submissive needs to express these fears to their dominant.  Let the dominant know about the self doubts, the fear of failure, rejection, or whatever else may be involved.  Ask for more detailed instructions, ask for help, ask for guidance... communicate.

Yet I've often seen submissives who won't.  Sometimes out of fear of being told they are a "headache" again, or fear of disappointing the dominant again. 


What you're missing here is that if the first time the sub tries to tell the dominant about his/her problem, he/she doesn't get understanding but instead gets an impatient reply, then he/she isn't likely to ever speak of their feelings again.

And since so many of us have come out of bad past relationships where we were constantly put down, we are hesitant to reveal our difficulties, to open ourselves up to more ridicule and verbal abuse. So that when we attempt to communicate, we  have difficulty expressing the problem. If the dominant is impatient, not paying attention to our difficulty, then we give up trying to talk.

I don't know anyone who doesn't tell a prospective dominant about the pitfalls from the past, and all the dominants promise to be patient, but once the relationship starts they forget those promises and expect that a month or two of a new relationship should suddenly wipe out fears of many years standing. The ability on a dominant's part to remember where the sub is coming from and give her the time and nurturing needed to solve the problem, which is a lot more than a couple of months, seems to be rare. Most dominants appear to be impatient more than patient.

And I'm in awe that you can write fiction with realistic dialogue. I am so not capable of that. But essays are easy; research, analyse, organize, write. Simple for me and difficult for my teen who is facing his first 10 page paper.



Padriag -> RE: whats the thought process here (4/15/2009 10:18:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

What you're missing here is that if the first time the sub tries to tell the dominant about his/her problem, he/she doesn't get understanding but instead gets an impatient reply, then he/she isn't likely to ever speak of their feelings again.

Nope, didn't miss it.  Nor did I imply such a situation.  Most people give up if things don't go well the first time... which it kinda sad really... I watch a lot of people miss out on opportunities because of that.

quote:

And since so many of us have come out of bad past relationships where we were constantly put down, we are hesitant to reveal our difficulties, to open ourselves up to more ridicule and verbal abuse. So that when we attempt to communicate, we  have difficulty expressing the problem. If the dominant is impatient, not paying attention to our difficulty, then we give up trying to talk.

Thing is, thats also expecting the dominant to deal with a lot... and too often with minimal information and probably zero training in counseling.  If a submissive has that much emotional baggage, they probably ought to deal with at least some of it before plunging into another relationship (not that most will, they'll plunge away).  The dominant is then left to face a variety of expectations which aren't entirely fair, not to mention spending even more time cleaning up a mess someone else made.

Ironically, if the situation were reversed, and it was the dominant struggling to deal with past issues I doubt very much any mercy or understanding would be shown.  Its a double standard.  Dominants by and large are not camp counselors, most have no training in dealing with these kinds of issues, and may be entirely baffled by the reactions, fears and outbursts on the part of the submissive (take a look through this forum at the number of threads started by dominants looking for advice in dealing with such situations for an indication of how many really just don't understand what they are dealing with).  If they don't deal with them well, they get labelled a bad dominant.  Personally, I think its setting dominants up for failure.

quote:

I don't know anyone who doesn't tell a prospective dominant about the pitfalls from the past, and all the dominants promise to be patient, but once the relationship starts they forget those promises and expect that a month or two of a new relationship should suddenly wipe out fears of many years standing.

Oh I've known a few... as well as more than a few who were less than forthcoming about their past.

quote:

The ability on a dominant's part to remember where the sub is coming from and give her the time and nurturing needed to solve the problem, which is a lot more than a couple of months, seems to be rare. Most dominants appear to be impatient more than patient.

In some cases, no amount of patience or nuturing on the the part of the dominant will solve it, which is another problem I have with the expectation.  I have seen, and unfortunately been involved in a few such relationships.  I can tell you for my part it was an emotional roller coaster, very frustrating and draining for me.  Most did not end well.  I know there have been some situations I dealt with that simply overwhelmed me, and I've had the advantage of both some training in counseling and a long hobby of studying psychology.  It is particularly hard to do so with someone you are emotionally involved with, it tends to blind you to things you might otherwise see if you were more objective.  Again, my point being that perhaps the expectation that this is something the typical dominant can or even should be able to handle may be unrealistic.  And as you say, such cases seem to be rare which would appear to only reinforce my point.

quote:

And I'm in awe that you can write fiction with realistic dialogue. I am so not capable of that. But essays are easy; research, analyse, organize, write. Simple for me and difficult for my teen who is facing his first 10 page paper.

Thanks... someone's been peeking at my short fiction.  I'm not entirely happy with some of the dialog, I think it could stand some improvement... but then I'm always my own toughest critic.  I agree about essays but there are plenty who would not... I think that sort of thing depends on how adept one is at critical and logical thinking.



greeneyedreamer -> RE: whats the thought process here (4/15/2009 10:43:23 PM)

quote:

<SIGHS>

Okay, here is the process the way I hear it in my own brain. Please understand I don't speak for everyone but I know that at least for 2 or 3 this will ring VERY true.

Me: Girl, today I want you to sit down and fill out this form for insurance, it is important that this gets done. I asked you to do this last week and you still haven't gotten around to it. I expect this done when I get home.

*In My head* I have actually asked you to do it about 8 times now and eact time I get a different excuse, I really just want you to show me that you aren't helpless and that you can be trusted to handle something that is this important please just follow through on this, this isn't like the laundry or the bathroom sink this is serious

Girl: Okay, I'll Try.

Me: No, No Try I need this done I need to know that you will have this completed when I get home, do you need me here to show you how?

*In My head* No No No, I hear Try all the time and what that means is that you want me to understand that you really don't think you will complete it because if you say try it makes it okay in your head if you don't because you didn't say you were going to. I don't want to just do it for you because all that does is leave you helpless with out me and I don't want that.

Girl: Some of it is really confusing. Maybe that would be better.

Me: <sigh> what is confusing hunny? It's all there you just need to follow step by step and fill in what it asks you for.

*In My head* How is it that I tried to be as independant as possible and not let my parents help me with anything and I managed to figure all this out and your parents have gone and fixed everything for you to an extent that you do not know how to fill out a basic form and maintain things like this. What would you have done if you were on your own? What will happen if I am gone? how will you manage if I get hurt or have to go away for awhile?

Girl: I don't know what all those things are.

Me: Like what?

*In My head* What is it that you don't know what is? Your Drivers License Number? Your SSN, My SSN, the Midgets SSN? How much you paid in Taxes last year? You know where we keep the file right? I mean you watch me put things in there every year, I will make sure when I get home to go over what we keep in the file just to make sure you know where it is and what is in there but I am going to PRAY that you know what and where it is because that is where a majority of the things you want are. I know you aren't dumb so I won't insult you by making it a big deal I will just wait and see how things go along.

Girl: I don't know the last time I looked at it is was just so confusing so I stopped because I didn't want to screw it up.

Me: well girl if you don't do anything at all you will screw it up and myself and the midget will lose our insurance.

*In My Head* I just don't get it, getting her to do this is pointless she doesn't want to get it, I mean it seems she would rather just not do it then learn how to do it. If she isn't interested in helping out with important things then what is the point in asking her to? What is the point in putting this much effort into something as simple as an insurance form when she is making it obvious she really just doesn't want to do it and would rather I do it. If I can't rely on her for these things what else is falling through the cracks? What is wrong with me? Why am I not able to convey how important this is to me, why does she just think it will take care of itself? I could let it lapse and let her see the consequences but that would hurt both of us and I would feel like I'm failing her even more than I do now because I cannot get her to understand that this is just as important to me as anything else I ask her to do.

You can apply this thought process to just about anything else. From Cleaning the house to making the Bed, anytime I request or outright order something and it is ignored or simply left undone for any reason I wonder at the reasons and what I am doing wrong and if after all the effort I have put in what I am getting out of it. Sure the girl is lovely to spend time with and I love her company as much as my own, but you know it takes more than love and good times to keep something working if my requests aren't important enough a reason for her to follow thorugh on something then how important are my wants and needs to her?

The outside view is offten different then what the brain is dealing with.

Steel




This sounds more like a child or a mentally deficient person. wow... that would wear my patience thin too.



LadyPact -> RE: whats the thought process here (4/16/2009 12:08:33 AM)

I've very much enjoyed reading this thread.  Some things here have already been said better than I could.  Still, there are a few things I wanted to throw out there.

InTonguesslave, I have to tell you that I'm seeing so many positive things in your posts lately.  I see you growing by leaps and bounds.  I am not going to attribute all of that to your Master.  I can tell that you're putting in your work and I can see it from across an ocean away.  I think you're a credit to yourself and to him.  I wouldn't forget your poly sis, either.  I just wanted you to know that.

Now, on to business.  Steel couldn't have done a better job at expressing the way I feel about both questions brought on in this thread.  The hypothetical conversation, along with what's going on in the head was brilliantly done, and from My perspective, very accurate.  I couldn't say it in relation to something such as forms when it comes to My boy, but I can sure hear the same process going on in My head when it comes to certain lifestyle things.  "No, no, no.  This is why we (and yes, I do say "we") don't do a,b,c, because a,b,c leads to x,y,z.  Then we have to straighten that out." 

While I do tend to write quite a bit when posting here, I'm really not so happy with the sound of My own voice when giving a command for a multiple time.  The way I see D/s, that s has agreed to submit.  If I want something done, and the ability is there, and there are no issues preventing it to be done, I do expect it to get done.  If it didn't, the process comes down to some reason of why it's a case of either can't or won't.  I'll gladly accept any form of can't and do what I can to get past that.  Won't, on the other hand, is going to have Me looking for a contributing factor.

Which leads Me to the other question posed (which again Steel answered beautifully) by hopeful68.  I realize I'm not a male, but I don't think My gender has much to do with it.

As others have mentioned, the amount of time invested in the dynamic does influence My answer.  If it's someone new, it's not going to bother Me as much as someone who's been My sub for a period of time.  Yes, to release someone who is wearing My collar is going to effect Me a great deal.  That person has become a part of My family and it would be the same as losing anyone who is that important in My life.

I may not cry when the decision is made (or I might, either is possible) but it certainly will happen afterward.  Just because release might be in the best interest for both of us so that each can find a dynamic with a person more suited, doesn't mean that it isn't going to hurt.  Personally, I will have to take the time to grieve that loss.  Mister P has seen what this is like and his shoulder's gotten wet a few times.  (He's a pretty damn good husband in that regard.)



eyesopened -> RE: whats the thought process here (4/16/2009 5:15:15 AM)

I have not read every single reply but I believe that the crux of it is that when asked to do something and then not doing it, is a form of rejection.  No one likes the feeling of being rejected.  Then offering to help and having that offer refused is an even greater rejection because you have not only rejected the task but rejected the person as well.  Others have said pretty much the same thing and elaborated, but the bottom line is... it is a form of rejection.  Period.



InTonguesslave -> RE: whats the thought process here (4/16/2009 12:46:03 PM)

InTonguesslave, I have to tell you that I'm seeing so many positive things in your posts lately.  I see you growing by leaps and bounds.  I am not going to attribute all of that to your Master.  I can tell that you're putting in your work and I can see it from across an ocean away.  I think you're a credit to yourself and to him.  I wouldn't forget your poly sis, either.  I just wanted you to know that. (quote LadyPact)
 
thank you.  for both you and Lockit to take the trouble to say what youve said means huge amounts to me.  words really cant express it here without sounding over the top [:)]. 

i am putting in the work because Sir has given me the opportunity to be me, he creates pockets of potential for me to fill, some are more challenging than others.  ive told him that i never ever want to say no to him, that i will try everything he wishes at least once and if i dont like it ill tell him.  he smiles with that smile that tells me 'well fine, but liking it or not really isnt the issue babe' which makes me laugh.

im happy to be property and to finally get the chance to be exactly who i am and not a dilution.  its great.

thank you for making my day today xx





KnightofMists -> RE: whats the thought process here (4/16/2009 3:59:26 PM)

quote:

so is it that it just gets exhausting, tiresome, irritating
is it that refusing or failing to do a task questions the dynamic
does it put into question the sincerity of the sub/slave

and is there other stuff going on in there.


To me it is all about getting the desired results and to get them there needs to be a few things in order before they can occurr.

Direction... I need to give the proper direction of what I want.  Any miscommunication and I will not get the results. wanted.  Sometimes it might take a few times to get the direction clearly established.

Opportunity... The person has to have the opportunity to fullfill the task in the first place.  Not much sense asking them to do something which they clearly understand what is required when they can never have the time to do it.  If they don't have the opporunity... I need to find a way to give them an opportunity to get it done.  On occassions... I have to reorganize things so they can succeed in completing a given task.

Motivation... If my girls are not motivated to complete the task it just will not get the results I wanted... remember being motivated to do it is not the same as Liking it.  Motivation is not about like or dislike.  In my world... motivation has not been a problem for my girls.  If something is not getting done... it is definitly not a lack of sincerity or desire on their part... so I always look else where before I come to this one.  As yet... I never reached this one before I have found the reason the results are not what I expect or want....

Skills.... They should be capable of doing the task in the first place.  There are things that Kyra can do that Alandra can't and vice vrs.  Sometimes, they have to be taught by me or someone else to do the task.. maybe even teach themselves.   But... on occassions.. they just might not have the skills or the ability to learn to do given task.  There is nothing wrong with this but seldom I am thinking that a submissive or slave will be ok with that.  They seem to take it as a failure much more than they should and even sometimes the Dominants fail in making a bigger deal of it than they should.

just a few of my thoughts




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