Defining Domination v. Abuse

Defining Domination v. Abuse (Full Version)

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BlouLady -> Defining Domination v. Abuse (1/30/2006 7:40:04 AM)
WHen I was younger I NEVER would have thought I would receive amazing pleasure from being Dominated mentally and phyisically by a man. I considered it abuse. Having then since opened myself to this wonderfully, surprisingly,uplifting experience, I know that it is anything but. Being on the submissive I understand the attraction and I've the Dom side explained,so i can understand that to (sort of).Now my question is how can yu tell the difference between Domination and abuse,because I've heard of some things that definately sound like abuse. Is it all in how you feel about it? I just wish to be informed. Thank You--Lady

wetrope -> RE: Defining Domination v. Abuse (1/30/2006 8:00:13 AM)
I would define abuse as an action that goes beyond the hard limit originally agreed upon between Dom and sub, or an agreed upon rule is broken ex. stop light. But this is not always the starting point, as some get involved without making such agreements. And once involved and with little communication things can easily get out of hand for a sub. Just be vigilant at the beginning and avoid problems in the future. Now limits can change as you go along, but they have to be spelled out and agreed upon between both.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Defining Domination v. Abuse (1/30/2006 8:06:23 AM)
Abuse is used to force you to feel less than you are and to make you fear them. I distances you from yourself. A healthy relationship brings you closer to yourself.

BlouLady -> RE: Defining Domination v. Abuse (1/30/2006 8:32:34 AM)
Thanks for replying.I have the feeling that some people are just evil and use this beautiful thing to hurt others.

KnightofMists -> RE: Defining Domination v. Abuse (1/30/2006 8:33:06 AM)
It is very difficult from anyone on the outside to read a lifestyle relationship as abuse or not. Hell, it is even difficult for those within the relationship to admit the facts of life in there relationship. I believe one has to get past the acts/behaviors that are occuring and look at the motivations/consequences to and from those actions. In a healthy relationship, we are motivated for the benefit of ourselves and our partners and the consequences is that we both do benefit from the relationship. We feel good and are enriched being involved in the relationship. As LA says, we become closer to each other, it builds up as a person. The abusive relationship, tears a person down, the self-esteem goes lower and lower. An abusive relationship is destructive to a person's emotional, intellectual and/or physical well-being. It seems rather simple, but it is anything but simple. The abused is often feelings ashamed and closed off from others. Such a person is not usually so quick to share with others so the abusive situation can be changed. I will also add that abuse can come from both so-called Dominant's as well as submissive persons. Sometimes, both parties can be abusive to each other!

Padriag -> RE: Defining Domination v. Abuse (1/30/2006 8:55:31 AM)
Was just discussing this sort of thing with someone last night... quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross Abuse is used to force you to feel less than you are and to make you fear them. I distances you from yourself. A healthy relationship brings you closer to yourself. ... and that is very close to what I said then. Abuse tears you down, makes you feel like you are less (worth less). A good dominant uses domination to build you up, liberate you from your own fears, make you feel more capable and worth more.

KnightofMists -> RE: Defining Domination v. Abuse (1/30/2006 9:02:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Padriag Was just discussing this sort of thing with someone last night... quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross Abuse is used to force you to feel less than you are and to make you fear them. I distances you from yourself. A healthy relationship brings you closer to yourself. ... and that is very close to what I said then. Abuse tears you down, makes you feel like you are less (worth less). A good dominant uses domination to build you up, liberate you from your own fears, make you feel more capable and worth more. This very fact is why I do not agree with the Term "POWER EXCHANGE" it is much to narrow of term in my view and generally I consider it inaccurate. I perfer to look at D/s relationships as a "Power Enhancement Relationships" If your not enhanced for being in the relationship... why the hell are you in it?!

BlouLady -> RE: Defining Domination v. Abuse (1/30/2006 9:36:03 AM)
quote: I perfer to look at D/s relationships as a "Power Enhancement Relationships" If your not enhanced for being in the relationship...why the hell are you in it?! That was well and beautifully put. And I agree 100%!!

Padriag -> RE: Defining Domination v. Abuse (1/30/2006 9:39:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists This very fact is why I do not agree with the Term "POWER EXCHANGE" it is much to narrow of term in my view and generally I consider it inaccurate. I perfer to look at D/s relationships as a "Power Enhancement Relationships" If your not enhanced for being in the relationship... why the hell are you in it?! There are lots of terms in this lifestyle that are inaccurate. LA will love you for pointing out power exchange as being one of them! [:D] You make a good point, if the relationship isn't providing you with something you need, then what's the point? But that's also the rub. Sometimes what a person feels they need isn't enhancement but something else. There are those who truly do want to be degraded (in the literal sense of the word), but I still view that as a form of abuse, even if its self abuse.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Defining Domination v. Abuse (1/30/2006 9:48:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Padriag But that's also the rub. Sometimes what a person feels they need isn't enhancement but something else. There are those who truly do want to be degraded (in the literal sense of the word), but I still view that as a form of abuse, even if its self abuse. I love being degraded in scene space. But just as a rape scene can be completely real to the "victim" in the scene, it's not real in "life." Degradation scenes can be truly degrading, but that doesn't mean the person is degraded in "life." It can be tricky ground to walk on- and lord knows enough doms pull the guilt/shame/you're not a true X card in the name of providing dominance to confuse anyone. And yes :) I always love it when someone points out "power exchange" being a really inaccurate term.

BlouLady -> RE: Defining Domination v. Abuse (1/30/2006 10:40:16 AM)
I agree that it may also be a form of self abuse. It's a shame people exploit that. How ever as LA said it is a fine line

Mercnbeth -> RE: Defining Domination v. Abuse (1/30/2006 10:48:18 AM)
quote: Is it all in how you feel about it? interesting article here: BDSM or ABUSE? Part 1 ultimately, yes, it is up to YOUR perspective, some folks believe you can't really call it unless you are the one experiencing it, but that ain't gonna fly with the authorities! it has been this slave's experience that abuse is generally non-consensual, if one is even conscious they are being "abused"... it has also been this slave's experience that the ones who can't control themselves, have little self-confidence and lots of hate for a particlular person or group, or just life in general make better abusers than dominants. this slave also believes the word abuse is used too much and in the wrong context all the time.

Lordandmaster -> RE: Defining Domination v. Abuse (1/30/2006 12:19:02 PM)
It's a tricky question. LA's point is good, but it's not the kind of thing that stands up in a courtroom. And "consent" is a very slippery concept, because a lot of abused women end up "consenting" to their abuse, at least from a legal point of view. Because they don't want to lose the relationship altogether (for whatever reason), they're willing to tolerate an abusive relationship. But no fulfilled sub will ever say that she'd rather her dom stop whipping her so much. I think the problem is that we make a category mistake when we try to sort out what is abuse and what is just extreme play. It's like trying to sort out what is a fruit and what is red: the two concepts aren't on the same plane. "Abuse" is a concept that belongs in the legal world; it's defined in legal terms, and otherwise has fuzzy, relative, and not very useful meanings. (For example, I can say that I think the President is "abusing" his power, but it's not likely that I'd succeed by bringing him to court for it. By the same token, anyone else could just as easily say that he or she does NOT think the President is "abusing" his power. There is no way to determine the answer to that question absolutely.) "Extreme play" has nothing to do with the law and can't be defined in legal terms. Many things we do probably would be considered abuse if they came up in a court of law. That doesn't mean they're bad. Lam

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Defining Domination v. Abuse (1/30/2006 12:32:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster "Extreme play" has nothing to do with the law and can't be defined in legal terms. Many things we do probably would be considered abuse if they came up in a court of law. That doesn't mean they're bad. Lam I agree completely. Just because you feel abused, doesn't mean you should expect others to agree with you- especially if you're trying to get legal prosecution. Same as if you don't feel abused.

slavejali -> RE: Defining Domination v. Abuse (1/30/2006 1:20:59 PM)
The definition of abuse to me would be the *effect" of someone who is not in control of themselves and because of this is being dominant over another due to their weakness of personality and character. This will lead to an unhealthy relationship for both people. A dominant in the BDSM sense, a Master to me is, someone who has good knowledge of self, good control of their mind and emotions and consciously chooses to participate in this kind of relationship. The effect of this choice is Domination over another and will benefit both people.

IrishMist -> RE: Defining Domination v. Abuse (1/30/2006 1:40:24 PM)
quote: it has been this slave's experience that abuse is generally non-consensual, if one is even conscious they are being "abused This is how I would term abuse. I spent many years with a man who used degradation, humilation, pain on a daily basis within our life...and never once did I 'feel' less than what I was...loved, cared for, and protected.

FantMstr -> RE: Defining Domination v. Abuse (1/30/2006 3:26:30 PM)
Abuse, IMO, involves selfish use of another. That use is only for the "good" of the abuser with no positive reason concerning (or even consideration of)the the one it is done to. Probably badly said, but I feel that is the heart of the matter. Fantasy Mstr

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Defining Domination v. Abuse (1/30/2006 4:06:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FantMstr Abuse, IMO, involves selfish use of another. That use is only for the "good" of the abuser with no positive reason concerning (or even consideration of)the the one it is done to. Probably badly said, but I feel that is the heart of the matter. Fantasy Mstr I agree with this but will note that a selfish act does not equal an abusive act. Selfishness can be positive, necessary and for the overall good.

mossy -> RE: Defining Domination v. Abuse (1/30/2006 4:11:34 PM)
quote: Abuse, IMO, involves selfish use of another. That use is only for the "good" of the abuser with no positive reason concerning (or even consideration of)the the one it is done to. FantMstr, i think well said, simply put. After leaving a situation with almost no self-esteem left, i was prompted by another Dominant to ask this question. What was the Master's motive for the relationship? In time, from the events of the relationship themselves, i was able to discern the answer. What FantMstr says was correct in my life. While the "words" said were one thing. The "actions" were quite another. Those sunglasses i wore were really dark....btw...i threw them out.....[:D]

FantMstr -> RE: Defining Domination v. Abuse (1/30/2006 4:39:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross I agree with this but will note that a selfish act does not equal an abusive act. Selfishness can be positive, necessary and for the overall good. And I agree that selfishness can be positive. I think we both agree that when selfishness in a relationship causes one to use another with no thought of that other, then it ceases to be positive. See we agree to agree. :*)> FM FM pushes his soapbox out of the path so no one trips over it.

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