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RE: Contracts.. are they necessary - 4/13/2009 1:20:59 PM

subtlebutterfly

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*shudder*

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RE: Contracts.. are they necessary - 4/13/2009 1:24:18 PM

BOUNTYHUNTER

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

ORIGINAL: BOUNTY HUNTER

quote:

ORIGINAL: subtlebutterfly

Like what elements???
sure..the rendition on her securities to the dude would probably be valid (as long as he has the receipt and all that shit)...along with the money transfer from her account to his (also possible to prove with a receipt) but it can in no way take on the form of a prenuptial or a contract on it's own.
If a legal dispute arose the contract could help clarifying the parties original intentions. But apart from that it's pretty much void. If they've live together long enough they might be end up considered as a couple by the state..but..that doesn't mean a contract becomes legally binding.
anyway yep..I agree with the go all lawyerishy

I agree, that is the problem, its legal for her to transfer her wealth to this so call dom.....I am pretty intelligent owning business for over 40 years but never the less the slightest transfer is done Thur a lawyer..

yeah...but if the OP's dude vetoed a non-binding M/s contract...just imagine what he would say to a legal, binding contract.

Yeah but I bet he wouldn't veto her signing over her securities to him lol..

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RE: Contracts.. are they necessary - 4/13/2009 1:27:47 PM

sirsholly

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*nods*
this is a heartbreaking situation for the OP.

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RE: Contracts.. are they necessary - 4/13/2009 1:50:23 PM

Kaiel

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well, let's see where to start, I am a Domme' that likes contracts, just as a statement of expectations... I personally have used them and have been successful with them, but that being said, "different strokes for different folks"... what works for Me may not work for the next Dom/Domme.

On to the transferring of securities, I too, agree with other posters... I don't think you gave enough details about how long you two have been together and what the financial situation is, but FYI, if he's broke, you're not... he wants to own you and immediately wants your money... run for the fucking hills....

In the economy we live in, no one should be asking for your savings, because you very well may need it for survival in the near future.

Lastly, I have had slaves, give Me assess to accounts, savings, securities etc... but that all came with time and trust... it was also volunteered never asked for.

Just be careful, use your common sense... and remember if it walks like duck, quacks like duck... it's a fucking duck. If he won't give you the contract you believe in but he wants your money (right off the top), maybe he's a con-artist??

Good luck!

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RE: Contracts.. are they necessary - 4/13/2009 1:51:28 PM

SailingBum

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subtlebutterfly

Like what elements???
sure..the rendition on her securities to the dude would probably be valid (as long as he has the receipt and all that shit)...along with the money transfer from her account to his (also possible to prove with a receipt) but it can in no way take on the form of a prenuptial or a contract on it's own.
If a legal dispute arose the contract could help clarifying the parties original intentions. But apart from that it's pretty much void. If they've live together long enough they might be end up considered as a couple by the state..but..that doesn't mean a contract becomes legally binding.
anyway yep..I agree with the go all lawyerishy

Well since you asked anything tangible. like money, kids, property. Say we wrote a contract that stated I get your retirement and you will be tied up once a week. getting tied up would prolly be ignored by the judge however your retirement issue would be addressed.. Now my point. Just because one part of the contract is NOT considered valid. Does NOT mean the entire contract is void. I hope that clears it up for you. Again I'm a law school dropout. So don't go running around saying BadOne said blah blah. Consult a real one.

BTFW holly my fans have yet to put up a site. Feel free to do so. Smirkle

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RE: Contracts.. are they necessary - 4/13/2009 2:15:49 PM

subtlebutterfly

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum
Well since you asked anything tangible. like money, kids, property. Say we wrote a contract that stated I get your retirement and you will be tied up once a week. getting tied up would prolly be ignored by the judge however your retirement issue would be addressed.. Now my point. Just because one part of the contract is NOT considered valid. Does NOT mean the entire contract is void. I hope that clears it up for you. Again I'm a law school dropout. So don't go running around saying BadOne said blah blah. Consult a real one.

BTFW holly my fans have yet to put up a site. Feel free to do so. Smirkle

BadOne

ye good for you to be a dropout. I can flag it too I'm starting ML program this fall so ...I'm a law student that still hasn't dropped out yay me.

However, I can only speak for where I live.
Of course the entire contract doesn't have to be void. I wrote a contract sure anybody can sign a contract..were there any witnesses? did they write their names on the contract also? Otherwise I could just as well refuse that I ever signed the piece of paper. I could even say that you'd forced me to sign the contract or used my ignorance.

but yup........go get a lawyer.

< Message edited by subtlebutterfly -- 4/13/2009 2:20:23 PM >

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RE: Contracts.. are they necessary - 4/13/2009 3:06:03 PM

SailingBum

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subtlebutterfly

ye good for you to be a dropout. I can flag it too I'm starting ML program this fall so ...I'm a law student that still hasn't dropped out yay me.
However, I can only speak for where I live.
Of course the entire contract doesn't have to be void. I wrote a contract sure anybody can sign a contract..were there any witnesses? did they write their names on the contract also? Otherwise I could just as well refuse that I ever signed the piece of paper. I could even say that you'd forced me to sign the contract or used my ignorance.

but yup........go get a lawyer.

You go girl. Claiming duress typically won't hold up. Millions of contracts as signed each day without a witness CC buying a car all kinds of things. But you keep trying to void a contract after you sign it. wannabe lawyer or not it's very difficult.

Didn't want to spend the rest of my life being despised by the rest of the world Which is why I quit. A buddy of mine that is a lawyer when he into me to another one. "this guy is a lawyer but don't hold it against him" I'm never sure if he is kidding or not.

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RE: Contracts.. are they necessary - 4/13/2009 3:11:11 PM

marie2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BOUNTYHUNTER

quote:

ORIGINAL: subtlebutterfly

Like what elements???
sure..the rendition on her securities to the dude would probably be valid (as long as he has the receipt and all that shit)...along with the money transfer from her account to his (also possible to prove with a receipt) but it can in no way take on the form of a prenuptial or a contract on it's own.
If a legal dispute arose the contract could help clarifying the parties original intentions. But apart from that it's pretty much void. If they've live together long enough they might be end up considered as a couple by the state..but..that doesn't mean a contract becomes legally binding.
anyway yep..I agree with the go all lawyerishy

I agree, that is the problem, its legal for her to transfer her wealth to this so call dom.....I am pretty intelligent owning business for over 40 years but never the less the slightest transfer is done Thur a lawyer..

She didn't say she was going to "transfer" them to his name. She said he wants her "to sell" them. Once liquidated, all she has to do is write him a check and he can deposit it into his own account. Done deal. His money now.

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RE: Contracts.. are they necessary - 4/13/2009 3:24:22 PM

sirsholly

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quote:

BTFW holly my fans have yet to put up a site. Feel free to do so. Smirkle

oh suuuure...i agree with you one time and i am the president of your fan club

(hey...i put up the site...i get to be the prez)

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RE: Contracts.. are they necessary - 4/13/2009 3:36:23 PM

ReverendJim

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kitteneedsmate
Is a contract necessary?

No.it's not.

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RE: Contracts.. are they necessary - 4/13/2009 3:48:07 PM

Interesdom

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kitteneedsmate
Thank you all for your comments and advise. i guess what i am most concerned about are some asserts i have that i want to go to my children and grandchildren so i guess the comment on a "prenup" type of agreement would be best. However, i do not think my Master would want that . any other suggestions??

You remind me of a woman I spoke to in about 2002. She wanted to be a slave, I wanted a slave. She was wealthy, even by my terms, and had ex-dependants (not her own children, but that's beside the point). She wanted to give herself completely over to an owner and have no decisions in her life: I don't have a problem with this. During the process of getting to know her, I decided that it would be best for her aims if she had no access to her money and set about working out how to get her assets into a trust. My thinking was to rely on her capital for her old age should I predecease her or it could go to her ex-dependants otherwise. I had no qualms about taking a few thousand off her (car for her, furnishings, initial living expenses etc) but would not take the small fortune that had been enough for her to live off the interest.

She felt that I was rejecting her and, along with some other reasons, she didn't give herself to me.

I spoke with her briefly about three years ago. She is now having to work and has a mortgage. Her two-year stint as slave fell apart (I'm not sure why - I think it was largely because he couldn't handle the responsibility of a slave) and when she split from her ex-master, she found that he had quietly spent most of her small fortune and wasn't even willing to give over the remainder (he did give her some money, once she went to a lawyer). Needless to say, she has sadly and bitterly turned her back on the idea of M/s, even though I might still have taken her.

Now you need to think carefully about what kind of relationship you want. If you want to be a full-blown slave who owns nothing (because she is property, so can't own) then you must dispose of your money before or on becoming a slave. If you want to be a slap-and-tickle sub living with a man, there is no need to share what you own at all. If you want to join the majority of happy people in this lifestyle, you will find your own grey area in between those two extremes.

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RE: Contracts.. are they necessary - 4/13/2009 4:02:29 PM

Lockit

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Interesdom

Now you need to think carefully about what kind of relationship you want. If you want to be a full-blown slave who owns nothing (because she is property, so can't own) then you must dispose of your money before or on becoming a slave. If you want to be a slap-and-tickle sub living with a man, there is no need to share what you own at all. If you want to join the majority of happy people in this lifestyle, you will find your own grey area in between those two extremes.

A slave is property and cannot own anything... but a submissive is... a slap and tickle sub living with a man. Interesting. Somehow I get the feeling that you don't respect submissive's much. A lot of what you said in your post I can agree with and the story of the other submissive... fantastic, but why must a submissive be considered a slap and tickle as if that is all they are? It is almost insulting because she isn't full blown slave property that cannot own anything.

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RE: Contracts.. are they necessary - 4/13/2009 4:12:59 PM

YourhandMyAss

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When nobody has come forward and said yes it's necessary or needed to have a contract then yeah most of the replies have been largly no. there have been a few that said well it's up to you what you feel is nessesary or important, I also happen to know from experince, that more people today will probably come by today and re iterate that no, it's not nessesary.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

Yup, but the difference is, you're counting only the negative replies stating contracts are not needed, and I am counting all the people who said no, and 5 people, myself one of them said no, and there will be more before the threads over probably.

alrighty...so...5 out of 34 qualifies as most? Really?

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RE: Contracts.. are they necessary - 4/13/2009 6:21:12 PM

kitteneedsmate

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Thank you all .. sirsholly thank you especially for your coment . i am asking ADVISE. i am not going to ever begin to tell Master what to do. i was just asking and trying to get some input. I am sorry this has become such a bashing thread , all i wanted was a little insight to what others do. Again thank all of you for your comments.

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RE: Contracts.. are they necessary - 4/13/2009 6:33:11 PM

whiteslavebitch

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MasterK and I don't have a written contract, and it suits us just fine. We both know our position in the relationship without putting it in writing.

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RE: Contracts.. are they necessary - 4/13/2009 7:26:37 PM

DesFIP

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You haven't been collared OP, which means this relationship is not of long standing, and he's trying to steal your money. Run, don't walk.

Put the stuff in a trust with you and the bank as trustee, see an estate lawyer. But don't let this thief steal you blind.

Tell him you've signed all the money over to your kids and see how long the relationship has. I'm betting he'll walk the moment he realizes he can't take the money and run.

You know what's going on here or you wouldn't bother to ask. Defend yourself and find someone trustworthy next time.

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RE: Contracts.. are they necessary - 4/13/2009 8:30:23 PM

SailingBum

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

BTFW holly my fans have yet to put up a site. Feel free to do so. Smirkle

oh suuuure...i agree with you one time and i am the president of your fan club

(hey...i put up the site...i get to be the prez)

Yep you can have any little thing your heart desires babeeee... Actually I'm sure there is at least a couple thousand members but they have yet to claim their undying love for me.

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RE: Contracts.. are they necessary - 4/14/2009 3:35:00 AM

julietsierra

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You're going to decide what you decide but I know that I, for one do not, will not, now or ever, share assets with someone unless there is a significant LEGAL contractual vehicle for doing so.

This means marriage with a strong pre-nup involved.

And since I'm never getting married...

My servitude stops at my bank account. I may not have much but it's mine - and more importantly, my children's.

And when it comes to providing for my children in the event of my death... that takes priority over everything else, up to and including marriage OR mastery.

(It's also why if I ever lived with someone, it'd have to be in my home with a rental agreement written up to cover what they may contribute toward the house payment. No one - even my Master - is ever going to have any grounds to say that they are deserving of an equity interest in the place where my children live. I will never again be put in a position of either being a prisoner in my home - been there, done that - or having someone walk away and me not having a place to live - I know too many people who have been placed in this kind of a situation.)

I'm selfish like that.

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RE: Contracts.. are they necessary - 4/14/2009 4:02:14 AM

julietsierra

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quote:

ORIGINAL: YourhandMyAss

Nasty dom has said no, they're not nessesary, that's 1, subtlebutterfly, My opinion: bdsm contracts are BS and a waste of time that's 2 MErcbeth said no, that's 3 BountyHunter said they're about as worthful as a sheet of toiletpaper that's 4 I said they're not nessesary, that's 5. And that's just the thread up to this moment, there will be more replyin contracts are not nessesary

Out of curiousity... is this thread about proving how right you are or is it about some woman asking a question regarding slavery and the possible selling off of her assets? Cause I'm not sure what you're arguing.

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RE: Contracts.. are they necessary - 4/14/2009 7:16:03 PM

MasterDarkSadist

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I do not do contracts. Your situation may be different than mine, so YMMV. I do not do contracts because I do not view my slave as a contractor of mine providing service for pay. As a slave, she is required to do what I require of her in that moment, regardless of any outside influence. I would not expect that of a submissive, but I would not treat a submissive as a slave either.

Another way to explain this is; I have used contracts in the past, and they have been used against me to get a slave out of doing something simple, and not really kinky, just submissive. So, in order to prevent my own contract being thrown in my face, I have since stopped and refuse to use them. I simply say that they are to do what they are commanded to (and if they do not trust my judgment, not to accept my collar). Also, if I were to write a contract, it would be one line, and go something like this;

The slave is expected to obey, without question, in all areas of her life, except in the event of grievous danger to self or others. Grievous danger is defined as loss of limb, life, sight, death, or incarceration.

However, this contract is useless to a slave, because it does not define anything. Furthermore, if the slave wants a contract in order to feel safer, I think it would be wise to acknowledge that it is in my best interests to prevent grievous danger to herself or others, in order to keep my property in good order. Her wellbeing is in my best interests because she has value to me for what she is and the time I had to put into her to make her into my slave.

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