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RE: 9/11 - choice of targets - 4/13/2009 7:59:59 PM   
FangsNfeet


Posts: 3758
Joined: 12/3/2004
Status: offline 		Choice of targets? If the terrorist really wanted to throw down, why not hit Yankie Stadium, Deytona or Indiapolis 500, Kentucky Derby, Billy Grahms church, The Big Texan (home of the 72oz steak), or Ronald McDonald Houses? 

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RE: 9/11 - choice of targets - 4/13/2009 8:22:49 PM   
CruelNUnsual


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Status: offline 		It took this long for you to realize (or maybe you havent realized it because the OP is so convoluted) that the WTC was chosen because it is a symbol of capitalism and Western values?

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RE: 9/11 - choice of targets - 4/13/2009 8:27:39 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
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From: Dirty Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomImus

It's obvious they attacked the symbols of America. There's only so much damage you can do with four airliners. Obviously their plan was in the works for quite some time and they were probably banking on Gore winning in 2000. Thank God that didn't happen. I can only imagine the post 9/11 catastrophe that mannequin might have wrought.


If Gore had won,at least one of the towers would have been saved as well as the Pentagon.

It`s very possible the whole scheme could have been thwarted,had bush not stolen the election.

To date,the perps got away(w/ 9/11) and bush wasted 4200 GIs` lives in Iraq(for nothing)and killed untold numbers of Iraqis and made Iran the region`s most powerful country.

And you`re thanking god for this?

Who`s side are you on?

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RE: 9/11 - choice of targets - 4/13/2009 9:18:54 PM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		Well I am having trouble wrapping my mind around that. How exactly would one tower be saved ? I see no logical course, and that includes the illogical actions of others. I also fail to see how the outcome of a Presidential election should have an impact on our defense capabilities.

Like I said in the OP, I am not interested in such things. I do not care right now that coincidentally they moved the most advanced and expensive RADAR equipment out of Pearl Harbor the day before the attack. I don't care why NORAD didn't respond when FOUR airliners went off course. I do not care about the black boxes, nor who may have them nor who even actually was behind the whole thing, which could've been our own CIA, the Mossad, whoever. Our own government was implicated in the 1993 attempt on the WTC and with the sheeple's short memory, that is all water under the bridge. I do not want to address any of these theories, no matter how plausible or crackpot-ish they are.

Ad hoc - THOSE PARTICULAR TARGETS.

Someone mentioned symbols, the WTC was not a symbol of anything, unless you want to get religious on my ass and say Mammon. Of course then that may be pertinent, because Moslems can be quite absorbed by religion at times. One respondent did mention something to that effect and really I cannot disagree. Actually symbolism is so ingrained into so many religions that it is hard to discern where faith ends and visual effects begin.

But in the end let's say you are a crazed religious fanatic. You really do hate our freedom and democracy, and hate us as a people. You got four jets with which to hurt us, you know you are not going to kill uis but you know you are going to bruise us up pretty bad. Where do you hit. You want maximum impact and public outrage, support for the war could be unprecedented. You could hit the kiddie parks, or like Disneyworld. You are here to start trouble and chew bubble gum, and you are fresh out of bubble gum.

Is that what they did ? NO, it is almost exactly what they didn't.

T

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RE: 9/11 - choice of targets - 4/13/2009 9:38:24 PM   
philosophy


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..i think the clue is in the name. World Trade Centre.  What the Islamic extremists want, more than anything, is a world with no world trade. No ability to wander about and see how the other half lives, loves, laughs, votes, dances, whatever. They seek a sort of cultural isolationism. World Trade is the enemy to them.

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RE: 9/11 - choice of targets - 4/13/2009 9:51:09 PM   
DomKen


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Status: offline 		The WTC had long been a target as a symbol of the american economy. The towers had already been attacked with a truck bomb. The Pentagon is quite obviously the symbol for our military might. The last target was either the Capitol Building or White House, White House IMO, as an attack against the symbols of our leadership.

Pretty obviously an attempt to rally support ot OBL.

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RE: 9/11 - choice of targets - 4/13/2009 9:55:24 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

Well I am having trouble wrapping my mind around that. How exactly would one tower be saved ? I see no logical course, and that includes the illogical actions of others. I also fail to see how the outcome of a Presidential election should have an impact on our defense capabilities.


I was confused by that for a moment as well, but then I figured it out! I think he's referring to how slowly civil and military air controllers responded to the emerging situation, and suggesting that under a Gore Administration, the response would have been quick enough to prevent the second plane from hitting the second tower. I don't mean to speak for him, but I think he's offline, so I thought I'd take a shot at helping you out!


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RE: 9/11 - choice of targets - 4/13/2009 10:00:15 PM   
Owner59


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From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		"Well I am having trouble wrapping my mind around that. How exactly would one tower be saved ?"


1  http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/knew/view/1_hi.html

2 http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/knew/view/2_hi.html

3 http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/knew/view/3_hi.html




If Gore had taken office,this man,John O`Neill wouldn`t have been fired(as bush did).He would have been in place and would have known instantly what was going on as soon as the jets were diverted hundreds of miles off course.

At the very least,after the 1st jet hit,the 2nd would have been shot down before it reached NYC.

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RE: 9/11 - choice of targets - 4/13/2009 10:30:58 PM   
slvemike4u


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Status: offline 		Interesting thought Owner,but pure speculation ....

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RE: 9/11 - choice of targets - 4/13/2009 10:48:18 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
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From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		They foiled the Bojinka plot,the Millennium bombing and did something called "shake the tree".When anything happened,they would study and follow any/all leads and dig and dig.Never ending curiousity and a need to know.

This is how they knew bin-laden was involved.The FBI had his cell number connecting him to Yousef.

O`Neill dug into Ramzi Yousef`s 1st WTC bombing.He was on the case and doing something about it.

bush on the other hand, didn`t want to hear anything about it and didn`t even schedule a meeting over it(till Sept.11th or 12th.)

The alarms were going off but the bushies were asleep at the wheel and incurious.

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"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

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RE: 9/11 - choice of targets - 4/14/2009 6:09:18 AM   
samboct


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Status: offline 		To the OP

Sorry, but the idea that using a jetliner filled with fuel can actually kill lots more people than they accomplished is a bit of a stretch.  And as noted above, their targets were picked on the basis of symbolism, rather than practicality.  Since the Pentagon is largely underground, how is a jetliner crashing into the top layers going to accomplish much unless the fuel creates one hell of  a fire?  Also note that what brought down the Trade Centers was fire- not the physical impact of the aircraft which isn't that significant.

Can a jetliner crashing into a reactor do damage?  Yeah- scratch the paint.  Same with dams, most bridges or civil engineering structures.  Although aircraft appear to us to be solid and sturdy, relative to large civil structures they're not- it's like a paper airplane and a bowling ball.  The interior of an airplane is mostly air- anything else weighs too much. OK< baseball may be a bit closer- I haven't run the mass numbers on civil structures- airplanes like the 767 are somewhere around 400,000 lbs IIRC.  A 747 is around double that.

In terms of football stadiums- yeah, it'd kill a bunch of people.  Wouldn't be close to wiping out the population of a stadium- too geographically dispersed- might get a few thousand tops. Also- what most people don't realize is that flying a jetliner in a dive is not easy.  Those airplanes are designed to be flown straight and level.  In level flight- kick the controls- literally kick them- and the airplane goes in a dive.  But as it speeds up- it starts to climb and it'll return to level flight a bit lower than when you started.  The steeper and faster the dive, the more the airplane wants to pull up.  Hence even if you force a vertical dive, it's probably going to be very tough to pick your exact spot- and you're fighting your instincts all the way.

In terms of their target choice- hmphhh.  They picked targets that were more significant to them (and weren't these some of the folks that were protesting Big Bird?).  I kinda doubt they have any clue as to who we are.  Plus, if they'd wanted to kill more people at the WTC- waiting until after 10 might have been a good idea, lots of New Yorkers- sleep in.  Nope, not geniuses, not freaks, just a nasty towelhead with enough money to do damage, and a very willing accomplice in George Bush.  We did more damage to ourselves than they ever did- heck, we lose 10x that many people a year to firearms, and an even higher number are killed on the road.  Yet, we manage to accept those figures and get on with our lives.

Sam

< Message edited by samboct -- 4/14/2009 6:11:15 AM >

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RE: 9/11 - choice of targets - 4/14/2009 6:49:17 AM   
pahunkboy


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From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Well- the target might have been the Liberty Bell in Philadelphia,
and a hand sewn American flag that Betsy Ross herself had sewed. Thro in a chopped down apple tree and we Americans would be insulted to no end.

Add in a high fructose corn syrup factory for mother of all insults!!!   ;-0


.....  just saying.  lol

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RE: 9/11 - choice of targets - 4/14/2009 8:03:29 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline 		First, one cannot suggest that there be a seperate investigation into the targets without looking as diligently into the whole conspiracy. Why does it seem that people have such a hard time with the word conspiracy ? No matter what happened exactly...almost all crimes and any that involve more than one person...is a conspiracy.

Funny and sad in how so many also just accept the admins. version of events when it presents not even enough evidence to indict Bin Laden. It is for good reason, "We just don't have the evidence." FBI. YET, almost everybody seems to suggest (accept) he was the mastermind...why ? He was not a co-conspirator.

Kinkroids, maybe it is too painful but go back and look at ALL of the available info. on the net, but there are way, way too many questions for anyone to objectively state absolutey just who did this and how let alone...why these targets.

I am putting a list together of questions "WHY ?" for 9/11/09. Why, why why so many...SO many unanswered questions. Why the GOVT. hides the answers or data that could answer these questions. Why so many events that took place in the months, weeks and days leading up to 9/11/01 ?

Millions love the TV program CSI, where is such science on 9/11 ? Why is so much of the evidence being held (if not by now destroyed) by the govt. Why people...why ?

Conjure up all of the all of the ideas you wish and on any act of govt. in which so many more millions of people hold in contempt...YET seem to accept the word and the word without the evidence...FROM GOVT.?

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 4/14/2009 8:05:27 AM >

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RE: 9/11 - choice of targets - 4/14/2009 8:14:36 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual

It took this long for you to realize (or maybe you havent realized it because the OP is so convoluted) that the WTC was chosen because it is a symbol of capitalism and Western values?

How were these buildings any more than almost any other building, a symbol of capitalism and so-called western values ?

There were people in that building from ALL over the world. Why not be more concerned with just WHO targeted the WTC. Concern yourself with why WTC 7 was blown up as we all know...was never hit by any plane.

The govt.'s research on this historical mass murder is an insult to my intelligence and should be to yours (everybody's)  as well.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 4/14/2009 8:17:41 AM >

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RE: 9/11 - choice of targets - 4/23/2009 11:22:58 PM   
gman992


Posts: 120
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		Al Quida has a nasty habit of re-attacking targets until they are destroyed. So, I wouldn't be surprised if they try to attack the White House/Capitol/Pentagon again. I wouldn't be surprised if they try to attack targets on the West Coast, specifically buildings in LA.--which was all part of they wanted to do. They also wanted to smuggle explosives on four airliners in Manilla and have them explode over the Pacific Ocean. This is what the Al Quida cell in London was plotting to do a couple of summers ago with liquid explosive before they were taken down. Thousands would've been killed. And they tried to slam an airliner into the Effiel Tower in the 1990s. They hijacked an airplane out of Africa, but they had to land in France to refuel. While on the ground, French special forces stormed the plane and killed the bad guys. They also planned to kill the Pope and President Clinton.

btw: John O Niell wasn't fired. He desperately tried to get the Clinton Administration to do something about Bin Laden, but they ignored him. In fact, O'Niell went over to Yemen to investigate the Cole bombing, but Secretary of State Madeline Albright and the US Ambassador to Kuwait put severe limits on his FBI team. They weren't allowed to the be the first to gather evidence, they weren't allowed to be the first to interview suspects, and they weren't allowed to go out of their hotel rooms without offical Yemen escorts. In fact, female agents weren't allowed to go on the team, and FBI agents weren't even allowed to carry their sidearms, placing them at great risk. O'Neill and his team feared for their own lives that they moved out of their hotel rooms and bunked on a U.S. Navy ship in the harbor. O'Neill even complained to higher up FBI officials, the Attorney General, and Clinton terror czar Richard Clarke that he felt that his investigation was being stymied. Those officials did nothing.Yemen authorities then gathered up "suspects" and had them released to be never seen from again and some were even executed before the FBI had a chance to talk to them. Yeman officials then told FBI agents that these were "suspects" that were involved in the case, and didn't show them any evidence. O'Neill suspected that Al Quida had sympatheziers in the top Yemen positions, and that key suspects were notified to leave town. When O'Neill kept on complaining about official interference from Yemen officials, the US Ambassador ordered Albright to return O'Neill and members of his team back to the states, which she did. A few months later, John O'Neill resigned--he wasn't fired--and took a job as head of security for the World Trade Centers.

< Message edited by gman992 -- 4/23/2009 11:38:11 PM >

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RE: 9/11 - choice of targets - 4/24/2009 10:01:06 AM   
FangsNfeet


Posts: 3758
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Status: offline 		Does anyone ever try to attack the Depository at Fort Knox?

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RE: 9/11 - choice of targets - 4/25/2009 10:19:05 AM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		Nothing there Fangs.

But it did occur to me, why didn't they attack the UN building ? Also why didn't they send all the planes to attack the pentagon and whitehouse ?

And why not nuclear power plants ? Even if it didn't result in a mushroom cloud, remember the big power outage ? There were traffic jamups caused by people who couldn't buy gas because the pumps wouldn't pump. And then that caused others to run out of gas because of the delay, and of course probably a few accidents as well.

They had something specific in mind. To hurt the "heart and soul" of the US they could've taken out some national monuments, but Mt. Rushmore just would not cost us enough - you got it - money.

I think I mentioned it, but they did almost accomplish something, they alost destroyed our economy. Recently revealed was the 9/11/2001 run on the banks. They declared a holiday but unlike in the early part of the century this was not imposed on the average Citizen, but large investors got "We're closed", and thus it was transparent to the average Joe at the ATM. The congressman stated that if the hemmorage of investment capital had not been stopped, today would've happened back then. It would have collapsed right then and there and all the ensuing consequences would have occurred eight years ago.

At least things are not boring in these times.

T

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RE: 9/11 - choice of targets - 4/25/2009 11:39:25 AM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		They didn't attack other targets because they weren't interested in causing turmoil or inconvenience. They went after symbols to both psychologically attack us as well as to rally support to their cause. This has been Al Quaeda's modus operandi for the more than 15 years of its existence.

To MrRodgers, if you think you have anything beyond vague claims then present it but don't be surprised when your claims get destroyed. A lot of really smart investigators have looked into 9/11 and the facts are clear.

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RE: 9/11 - choice of targets - 4/25/2009 11:51:41 AM   
Phoenixpower


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

it was rather amusing the ideas that the average French citizen held regarding Americans.  Especially Californians.  they imagined all of us running down to the beach every day, surfing our little hearts out with our golden tans, then returning home in our huge gas-guzzling Cadillacs to the ranch house with rooms to spare.  repeat the next day and every day after that.


Is that not the case???   *sorry, couldn't help it...no doubt about that view when we had to watch baywatch all the time over and over again on our tv programme in the 90s...*

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RE: 9/11 - choice of targets - 4/25/2009 11:54:29 AM   
Phoenixpower


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

it was rather amusing the ideas that the average French citizen held regarding Americans.  Especially Californians.  they imagined all of us running down to the beach every day, surfing our little hearts out with our golden tans, then returning home in our huge gas-guzzling Cadillacs to the ranch house with rooms to spare.  repeat the next day and every day after that.


Is that not the case???   *sorry, couldn't help it...no doubt about that view when we had to watch baywatch all the time over and over again on our tv programme in the 90s...*


_____________________________

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The PAST is history, the FUTURE a mystery, NOW is a gift - that's why it's called the PRESENT

www.butyoudontlooksick.com/navigation/BYDLS-TheSpoonTheory.pdf

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