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RE: Need - 4/20/2009 3:00:30 AM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterDoc1

A thesis for discussion: in a D/S relationship it is necessary/preferable/inevitable (pick which) that the submissive need/love/care more for the dominant than the dominant for the submissive.  True or false?


It is neither true nor false.
It depends entirely on the persons involved within a specific relationship, not what the relationship consists of - in this case - a dominant and a submissive.  Anyone answering this as absolutely true or false, is answering only from a personal standpoint and is not concerned with general relationships as a whole.
 
the.dark.

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RE: Need - 4/20/2009 4:38:16 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		False. We are both equally invested in the relationship, equally emotionally vulnerable. There is no way I would feel safe submitting to someone who didn't care about me as much as I do about him. If he didn't care as deeply, he wouldn't be so scrupulous in taking care of me, and his uncaring might lead him to not thinking things through and endangering me.

Unfortunately there are a lot of dominants who claim they have to be emotionally cold to be 'in charge' instead of being honest and saying that they are afraid of emotional intimacy and only interested in NSA on their part, while keeping the sub on a string until they find someone they fancy more.

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RE: Need - 4/20/2009 6:04:50 AM   
chamberqueen


Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/25/2007
From: Kalamazoo, MI
Status: offline 		Nihilus, I disagree with your point about accepting.  I may accept that a light just turned red when I was in a hurry to get where I was going but that doesn't mean I wanted it that way. 

I agree with HeavensKeeper (yet again) in that it is rare that both partners feel exactly the same way about each other.  I've seen relationships where the top is in love with the bottom but not vice versa, or where the bottom is in love with the top without that being reciprocated.  I don't think that the real question in a relationship should be who loves whom more but are they both getting their needs met and getting the fulfillment that they need.  For example, while a Master may not be in love with his slave he may still show greater kindness and generosity than she has ever felt before.  They may both accept that it is not a romantic love.  While the slave may wish that it could be there she also accepts the fact that it's not because the relationship is so wonderful.  It boils down to knowing that she may want love from him but doesn't need it. 


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RE: Need - 4/20/2009 6:48:18 AM   
NihilusZero


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quote:

ORIGINAL: chamberqueen

Nihilus, I disagree with your point about accepting.  I may accept that a light just turned red when I was in a hurry to get where I was going but that doesn't mean I wanted it that way.

You chose to take a method of travel where red lights should have been an expected risk. Maybe "want" is a misleading term to use, but the point is that the responsibility is yours. For example, trying to use this as an excuse for being late for work wouldn't fly, would it? "But, I didn't want to be late, boss!" "Oh, well in that case..."

Besides, in your analogy, the driving is done because, presumably, no better (travel) option is available to get you where you need to be. The choice of entering into a relationship doesn't have that luxury...meaning, you don't have to get into a relationship, you choose to. And again, if that choice is not reflective of your wants...who other than yourself is to blame?

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 4/20/2009 6:53:02 AM >

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RE: Need - 4/20/2009 7:21:54 AM   
camille65


Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline 		Well. I  need him more than he needs me. I love him more than he loves me. What he offers.. is what I have and eagerly accept. What I give is everything but rarely do I feel shortchanged. Those times that I do, with reflection and honesty I am able to see that while the feelings themselves may be valid I still get more from him than I imagined possible.

He loves my need for him. I don't exactly understand it but I know that it is a huge turn on for him, I think both physical and emotional. He plays off my need pushing me deeper and further. Controlling me through it. The more I crave the happier he is.


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RE: Need - 4/20/2009 8:31:45 AM   
IrishMist


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterDoc1

A thesis for discussion: in a D/S relationship it is necessary/preferable/inevitable (pick which) that the submissive need/love/care more for the dominant than the dominant for the submissive.  True or false?

Necessary? False
Preferable? False
Inevitable? False

Of course, this is just my opinion; others will vary I am sure.

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RE: Need - 4/21/2009 11:19:44 PM   
breatheasone


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Status: offline 		i guess i'm not sure its "necessary" that more need come from the "s" type. i would like to add however, i think one's perception of how needed they are is a key issue in a relationship.

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RE: Need - 4/22/2009 5:54:44 AM   
Kana


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterDoc1

A thesis for discussion: in a D/S relationship it is necessary/preferable/inevitable (pick which) that the submissive need/love/care more for the dominant than the dominant for the submissive.  True or false?


Like everything else in BDSM, it depends on the relationship.
No broad generalities coming from me.

As always, the only ones that I care about are the ones that I am in.
One thing I can assure you, I don't play percentages in my relationships, no games of do I like her more than she likes me or vice versa.
Either she cares for me in a way that satisfies me or she is gone, and why in the world would I keep someone around that I didn't care about?

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RE: Need - 4/22/2009 8:09:23 AM   
urlittleprincess


Posts: 149
Joined: 12/18/2007
Status: offline 		i dont know if this will make sense...but when i need/want/crave Him more than He seems to need or want me, it drives me crazy and feeds the emotionally masochistic part of me...i love it and hate it at the same time...i can only tolerate that for a while without becoming melancholy...and then need the loving reassurances...especially during pms...lol  when we were long distance it happened on a regular basis...but rarely now that we live together because He always wants me close and near and is very physically affectionate!!
 
when He seems to 'need', want or love me more, it brings out the nurturer in me...i take care of Him because...i love Him...we are all human and need a little extra tlc at times...but if it goes on to the point where He seems 'needy' to me it brings out the powerful familiar feelings i had in my marriage where i was definitely the dominant partner.  feelings of resentment, insecurity...i then tend to behave like an overworked waitress and get snappy and impatient...that snaps Him out of it and into 'do you need a spank?' mode! lol  ahhh...tis a fine line we walk at times...lol

we both know what our feelings are...we do not play games with each others emotions, but for me, yes...i like to want/need/crave/love...more...or at least be allowed to feel that way from time to time...lol  silly masochistic tendencies...

< Message edited by urlittleprincess -- 4/22/2009 8:19:23 AM >

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RE: Need - 4/22/2009 9:00:13 AM   
AnnaOfAramis


Posts: 523
Joined: 7/30/2008
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quote:

Why is it so many people who answered "false" do not explain their position? The question at hand has merit, and I feel cannot be adequately dimissed in one word.

I understand the instant response. My first response was "Pppffft, no!" but consider further.

The principle of least interest states that the party who loves more has less power. They no longer hold the ace, the "I could always leave" card. I'm not, IN ANY WAY advocating the use of relational aggression as a healthy dynamic between people, but having the ability to use (without actually using) that abusive card is an increase of power.

Isn't that what D/s is about? Increasing the power of one party while lowering the power of another?


Hello Sir,
I also think it is false. In fact I think it is essential in a D/s or M/s relationship that it is balanced. I liken it to a yin yang symbol. Rather than seeing it as a power imbalance, I see it as a power exchange. It has to be equal to work. If one has more power than the other can give in submission, the relationship will fail. If one needs to give more than they receive in dominance, the relationship will fail. The dominance has to be given in direct proportion to the submission given.

Need and love will vary in their expression. The way a dominant needs is not the same as the way the submissive needs. The sub might need his authority, his care, his affection, his pleasure etc etc. The dominant might need her service, her devotion, her love, etc. But he would not be able to fulfill his needs without her, and she would not be able to fulfill her needs without him. Similarly the way a dominant expresses love will be different than the way a submissive expresses it, but that is not to say that one loves more than the other. However, I have seen some relationships where there is no love; I imagine there are also those in which one loves and the other does not... how long that is sustainable though, I have no idea. It might be possible, but I certainly don't think it is necessary or preferable, quite the contrary.

Hope this explanation helps Sir,
anna

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RE: Need - 4/22/2009 9:05:41 AM   
dreamerdreaming


Posts: 2839
Status: offline 		I feel like my slave and I have equal need and desire of one another. Its nice when it works like that.

OP, the question posed is very broad, therefore I'll hafta say its false. Until someone comes up with some impirical evidence, lol!

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RE: Need - 4/22/2009 9:08:00 AM   
RavenMuse


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Joined: 1/23/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterDoc1

A thesis for discussion: in a D/S relationship it is necessary/preferable/inevitable (pick which) that the submissive need/love/care more for the dominant than the dominant for the submissive.  True or false?


Anyone answering this as absolutely true or false, is answering only from a personal standpoint and is not concerned with general relationships as a whole


I would have to disagree with you there sweetie in fact rather the opposite. I can't see it from the 'true' standpoint but I'll take up the 'argument' for sake of discussion on the 'false' standpoint.

There are three parts to the question...

Is it 'neccecary'... on an individual basis it can be true or false, however it is certainly not the case for 'relationships in general' it isn't neccecary for a stable relationship (Site anyones personal experience of other functional relationships and in some cases (Probably even the majority) this clearly isn't the case) and thus the generic answer would be false.

Is it inevitable... again the same situation, where in any individuals personal experience of their own relationships in may or may not be inevitable but that doesn't hold when general stable relationships are viewed... thus again the generic answer would be 'false'

Is it preferable.... preferable to whom? In the common use of the term it is a purely subjective term and thus inapplicable to most generic situations... If 'prefferable' is refering to some statisticaly backed generic outcome I certainly haven't seen any case studies that would lead Me to believe there is any generic sociataly benificial merit to that kind of relationship inbalance and thus again it is inapplicable... thus a false/erronious question when attempted to be applied genericaly

Ergo I put it to you that someone answering 'FALSE' could indeed be refering to the generic approach to this question and not simply answering from a personal standpoint.


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RE: Need - 4/22/2009 9:18:03 AM   
IronBear


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From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterDoc1

A thesis for discussion: in a D/S relationship it is necessary/preferable/inevitable (pick which) that the submissive need/love/care more for the dominant than the dominant for the submissive.  True or false?


Whilst I have no experience in a D/s relationship or dynamic (Just not my cup of tea), I would tend to believe that there is no one answer, as the answer will differ from relationship to relationship and alter from time to time depending on what is going on. I find from personal experience however that what I have said is accurate for the M/s relationships I personally know and have had.  I think too, that some folks find it hard to differentiate between Need and Want.


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RE: Need - 4/22/2009 10:06:25 AM   
Interesdom


Posts: 197
Joined: 5/24/2004
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterDoc1
A thesis for discussion: in a D/S relationship it is necessary/preferable/inevitable (pick which) that the submissive need/love/care more for the dominant than the dominant for the submissive.  True or false?


Clearly, there is no cut-and-dried answer that will cover all cases of all relationships.  That said, I think there are some general statements that indicate the likely success of a relationship, without saying anything about an individual circumstance.

I think that if a dominant needs a submissive more than vice-versa, there is a danger that his need will lead to an over-cautious approach to discipline and correction, which could lead to a breakdown of the D/s dynamic.  If the submissive needs the dominant more, this can simply encourage her to better serve him, thus emphasising the dynamic.

If a dominant does not care a great deal about the submissive, the trust in his decisions and orders are going to start failing and the D/s dynamic can collapse.  If the submissive does not have the same level of care for the dominant, no great harm should come about so long as the dominant can make her perform to his satisfaction.

Love is a very much trickier subject because it has a variety of motivators and is therefore much harder to compare.  I have observed that a sub who serves a caring dominant tends to fall in love, even if love wasn't there originally; a dominant served by an obedient submissive tends to fall in love, even if love wasn't there originally.  Often, the sub's love for the dominant is more obvious but as is discussed on another current thread, this by no means indicates that the dominant does not have a strong love, in his own way.

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RE: Need - 4/22/2009 10:09:59 AM   
Jeptha


Posts: 780
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From: Portland, Oregon
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

False. We are both equally invested in the relationship, equally emotionally vulnerable...

I think that's an excellent point.
I like that kind of emotional risk-taking on the behalf of both partners, at least a little bit. It's of interest to me.

I want that kind of investment to be made by both parties.

But I don't think it's measurable.

When you get into the idea of "need", you're probably talking more about insecurities than someone's love for their partner.

Love isn't particularly needy, it just kind of "is".

I guess you can love or esteem some people higher than others, but I think it's more a question of the different kinds of love: the "familial" kind, the
"extended family" kind, the kind reserved for friends, and so on.

Those kinds of love may be different, but within the different kinds of love, I don't think much of a heirarchy exists at that point.

I'm sure other's points of view may differ, though!

< Message edited by Jeptha -- 4/22/2009 10:11:09 AM >

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RE: Need - 4/22/2009 6:58:12 PM   
LovingMistress45


Posts: 271
Joined: 2/7/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterDoc1

A thesis for discussion: in a D/S relationship it is necessary/preferable/inevitable (pick which) that the submissive need/love/care more for the dominant than the dominant for the submissive.  True or false?


Is it necessary? False - I don't think the sub has to need/love/care more for the dominant than the dominant for the sub.

Is it preferable?  I guess that would depend on the people involved.  For myself it is not preferable.

Is it inevitable?  Maybe at least in the area of "need" depending on how you define it.  As for love/care I don't think so.

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RE: Need - 4/22/2009 9:10:21 PM   
SailingBum


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From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline 		Great topic!  Im thinking maybe

BadOne


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RE: Need - 4/23/2009 11:19:41 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterDoc1

A thesis for discussion: in a D/S relationship it is necessary/preferable/inevitable (pick which) that the submissive need/love/care more for the dominant than the dominant for the submissive.  True or false?


False: As a rule, I avoid adversarial relationships under the theory that they are doomed from the get go.

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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
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RE: Need - 4/26/2009 7:53:43 PM   
obis


Posts: 412
Joined: 9/9/2005
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: offline 		No relationship or set of people is perfectly equally balanced in passion or need. But who is greater or lesser in their desire changes from month to month or year to year. That is one of the tests of relationships -- how do they survive and adapt when that balance shifts, particularly if it is a relationship involving D/s?

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RE: Need - 4/26/2009 8:40:43 PM   
cpK69


Posts: 1593
Joined: 5/9/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterDoc1

A thesis for discussion: in a D/S relationship it is necessary/preferable/inevitable (pick which) that the submissive need/love/care more for the dominant than the dominant for the submissive.  True or false?


I’m saying false.

If I need him more, I am waiting to have needs filled. If I need him less, he is likely to be smothering.

To say I love him more, implies I’ve taken into consideration ‘who’ he is, and accepted him for it, more then he has me.

Caring more, implies I am more invested; doesn’t seem wise.

Kim

< Message edited by cpK69 -- 4/26/2009 8:41:07 PM >

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