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RE: Mysterious horse deaths-- updated - 4/23/2009 5:32:25 PM

Louve00

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crush

That is one serious mistake for a pharmacy. And a damn shame about the horses.

I won't be taking any horse pills from now on, that's for sure.

LOL...me either!!!

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RE: Mysterious horse deaths - 4/23/2009 5:43:59 PM

Irishknight

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Louve00

Agreed, DarkandtheDark. That animals suffered is the real point here. And angelikaJ's link above makes it even more pathetic. In this case, instead of responsibly buying the approved supplement, tried to save money? make the horse recover faster? Who knows the goal, but the experiment killed the very animal they were trying to improve...or maintain.

Actually, the article stated that the supplement is over the counter in other countries. It is not legal for sale in the US because the FDA has yet to approve it. That is why the owners had to turn to the compounding pharmacy. It was no experiment. It was a case of an incompetant lab killing 21 horses when they were supposed to be mixing vitamins and minerals to help them recover from the rigors of travel. I believe the article states that it was a B vitamin.
It boils down to the killers being the FDA and the pharmacy.

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RE: Mysterious horse deaths - 4/23/2009 7:32:34 PM

Louve00

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Or maybe just the compounding pharmacy, since you say the FDA hadn't approved it yet? (Not meaning the FDA is pure and chaste by any means though lol)

Whoever's to blame, its a shame.

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RE: Mysterious horse deaths - 4/23/2009 9:13:37 PM

angelikaJ

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

quote:

ORIGINAL: Louve00

Agreed, DarkandtheDark. That animals suffered is the real point here. And angelikaJ's link above makes it even more pathetic. In this case, instead of responsibly buying the approved supplement, tried to save money? make the horse recover faster? Who knows the goal, but the experiment killed the very animal they were trying to improve...or maintain.

Actually, the article stated that the supplement is over the counter in other countries. It is not legal for sale in the US because the FDA has yet to approve it. That is why the owners had to turn to the compounding pharmacy. It was no experiment. It was a case of an incompetant lab killing 21 horses when they were supposed to be mixing vitamins and minerals to help them recover from the rigors of travel. I believe the article states that it was a B vitamin.
It boils down to the killers being the FDA and the pharmacy.

As I understand it, because the supplement is not legal in the US, a veterinarian broke down it's ingredients in the prescription and it was sent to the compounding pharmacy.
The pharmacy did not publicly reveal where they made their error.
It was against the law for the pharmacy to make the compound since it was not FDA approved.

The horses appeared to have died from internal bleeding and the results of the toxicology tests will be released upon completion.

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RE: Mysterious horse deaths - 4/24/2009 11:37:50 AM

Irishknight

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You ar correct. The owners went to the pharmacy and they went to the compounding pharmacy. The FDA still needs to get some of the blame for creating the situation by their innefficiency and their ties to big pharmaceutical corps here in the US. They will block things for years that have proven safe, harmless, and sometimes even helpful. At the same time, they approve drugs for the megacorps that are known to have harmful side effects when used. They do too much pandering and not enough of what theyare supposed to be doing.

It was still not an attempt by the owners to save money or to do anything wrong. That was the primary point of my previous post. Another poster had left it sounding as if the owners were to blame. It would be like going to a drug store in Japan, asking for some Flinstones chewables for your kids and then having them sell you a killer coctail that they had someone else make up.

edited for a point of clarification

< Message edited by Irishknight -- 4/24/2009 11:59:33 AM >

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RE: Mysterious horse deaths - 4/24/2009 11:53:08 AM

angelikaJ

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I was not disagreeing with you, I was clarifying...and posting about what I had read.

One of the things I saw in the various articles is that in 2008 the FDA refused approval stating it was a new and unproven drug despite the fact that it has been safely used in Europe for over 50 yrs.

It contains a B-vitamin and some minerals including potasium, magnesium and selenium.
(Selenium seems a likely suspect.)

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RE: Mysterious horse deaths - 4/24/2009 11:57:19 AM

Irishknight

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And I was not refuting anything you said either. In fact, the posts share information and expand on what the other posts have said. Sometimes I just leave thing hanging when I'm in a hurry so I added my reasoning for blaming the FDA.

I actually missed the 50 year part. Nice catch. I wonder which big corporation they are blocking this supplement to protect.

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RE: Mysterious horse deaths - 4/24/2009 12:41:51 PM

angelikaJ

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

And I was not refuting anything you said either. In fact, the posts share information and expand on what the other posts have said. Sometimes I just leave thing hanging when I'm in a hurry so I added my reasoning for blaming the FDA.

I actually missed the 50 year part. Nice catch. I wonder which big corporation they are blocking this supplement to protect.

That is exactly what I wondered... .

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RE: Mysterious horse deaths - 4/24/2009 6:08:06 PM

LookieNoNookie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

How sad :(

Yes.

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RE: Mysterious horse deaths - 4/28/2009 3:03:47 PM

angelikaJ

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Answer found

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RE: Mysterious horse deaths - 4/28/2009 3:40:58 PM

allthatjaz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

I don't mean to be insensitive to our horse lovers here. But if this happened to a bunch of pigs or cows, would you be so upset? Pigs are much more intelligent than horses. I've never understood this special place the horse gets in the hearts of Americans. I don't see horses as any more special than cows.

Now I'm not advocating animal abuse by any stretch of the imagination. If this was indeed intentional, it's horrible. But I just don't understand the special love for horses that many have. I've rode one, I've been around them. Like I said, not much different from cows.

In my opinion all animal life has equal value. Personally I would be just as horrified if it was a pig or a cow.
I own horses and I have worked along side horses for most of my adult life. I have a great understanding of the horse but that doesn't mean that I give it more value than any other beast. I cried just as much when my chicken died as when I had to have one of my horses destroyed.

As far as the poisoned ponies, it sounds like sabotage.

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RE: Mysterious horse deaths - 4/28/2009 3:56:23 PM

angelikaJ

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quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

In my opinion all animal life has equal value. Personally I would be just as horrified if it was a pig or a cow.
I own horses and I have worked along side horses for most of my adult life. I have a great understanding of the horse but that doesn't mean that I give it more value than any other beast. I cried just as much when my chicken died as when I had to have one of my horses destroyed.

As far as the poisoned ponies, it sounds like sabotage.

It did sound like sabotage.
As it turns out it was an error by the compounding pharmacy, which they admitted to.

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RE: Mysterious horse deaths - 4/29/2009 1:44:30 AM

allthatjaz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

In my opinion all animal life has equal value. Personally I would be just as horrified if it was a pig or a cow.
I own horses and I have worked along side horses for most of my adult life. I have a great understanding of the horse but that doesn't mean that I give it more value than any other beast. I cried just as much when my chicken died as when I had to have one of my horses destroyed.

As far as the poisoned ponies, it sounds like sabotage.

It did sound like sabotage.
As it turns out it was an error by the compounding pharmacy, which they admitted to.

Well then its even more frightening because we (in other countries) have been using these very compounds for years. It makes me wonder how many horses we have lost to unknown causes.

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RE: Mysterious horse deaths - 4/29/2009 2:06:33 AM

allthatjaz

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As far as the debate on animal worth I have to say that not all horse owners care about these beautiful beasts.
During my career with horses I have worked with some top yards where the value of a horse runs into serious money. The valuable horse is pampered and cared for until it sustains an injury that taints its career and these horses just become waste products. I have seen insurance fraud to regain the original value, I have seen identity swaps and wondered what happened to the original horse with those papers and I have seen horses shot on the course because they hit a bank badly and deemed un-savable, not because they couldn't fully recover but because the said horse would be too nervous to ever take a big bank again. To this type of horse owner they are just a commodity, a means to an end. It seems the more money value a horse has, the more danger its life is in.
I can understand the emotional value of a horse. We get to know their character, their charm, their cheeky ways and more importantly their trust. I have a Lusitano who plays games, lies down in the school and lets me lay on his belly. Its an unquestionable love that we build and bond with them and the thought of death or injury to them is unbearable to us.
I have taken bad falls and had my horse stand and wait with me. I have fallen under a galloping horse and not been trampled but I believe that is more because the horse avoids trampling to save his own vulnerable legs and I have had a stallion that had such an inseparable bond with a goat that it looked after it with all the instincts of a mother.
I also believe that any animal that has been brought up with close human contact, gained the trust of humans and looks on the human as a friend, should not end up in a slaughter house. The intelligence of an animal holds no relevance as far as Im concerned. That is like saying an intelligent human holds more value than a mentally handicapped one. The only difference here is that humans have a right to life, animals don't.
For those of you that eat meat but wouldn't eat horse, would you eat horse if it was wild or raised like a cow?

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RE: Mysterious horse deaths - 4/29/2009 2:37:55 AM

faithfulfemme

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quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

It did sound like sabotage.
As it turns out it was an error by the compounding pharmacy, which they admitted to.

Well then its even more frightening because we (in other countries) have been using these very compounds for years. It makes me wonder how many horses we have lost to unknown causes.

i heard, also, that i was a mistake made by a pharmacy.....don't remember if it was a compounding pharmacy or not. However, they did admit that the formula they made up had incorrect amounts of some ingredient....didn't hear what exactly....and an internal audit was being done. me thinks this pharmacy is going to close down from all the law suits to take place. How many horses was it? Over 20, i think, and these horses were VERY expensive.....
.
.
.

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RE: Mysterious horse deaths - 4/29/2009 7:47:35 AM

Irishknight

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For the record, if you have eaten at McDonald's before the government outlawed taking horses to the slaughterhouse in the US, you have probably eaten horse. It is no coincidence that the price of cheeseburger rose significantly when that legislation went into effect.

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RE: Mysterious horse deaths - 4/29/2009 9:44:04 AM

allthatjaz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

For the record, if you have eaten at McDonald's before the government outlawed taking horses to the slaughterhouse in the US, you have probably eaten horse. It is no coincidence that the price of cheeseburger rose significantly when that legislation went into effect.

But where did those horses come from? would they be an acumulation of pet retirement ponies? I doubt it.
In the UK we have certain places like the New Forrest, Dartmoor and Exmoor where ponies run wild in natural herds. Every so often they are rounded up and sold on, usually for meat. What is the difference between this and other animals we use for meat products?

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RE: Mysterious horse deaths - 4/29/2009 9:50:30 AM

angelikaJ

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quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

In my opinion all animal life has equal value. Personally I would be just as horrified if it was a pig or a cow.
I own horses and I have worked along side horses for most of my adult life. I have a great understanding of the horse but that doesn't mean that I give it more value than any other beast. I cried just as much when my chicken died as when I had to have one of my horses destroyed.

As far as the poisoned ponies, it sounds like sabotage.

It did sound like sabotage.
As it turns out it was an error by the compounding pharmacy, which they admitted to.

Well then its even more frightening because we (in other countries) have been using these very compounds for years. It makes me wonder how many horses we have lost to unknown causes.

It is a little bit different.
In other countries the compound is classified as a legal drug.
Here it is not.
A vet essentially broke the compound into it's active ingredients and wrote a presciption for that.

The FDA will be coming down hard on the compounding pharmacy because under US law they essential manufactured an illegal drug.

And to faithfulfemme, the pharmacy erred by putting in too much selenium.
Essentially 25 times the amount specified.

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RE: Mysterious horse deaths - 4/30/2009 4:57:11 AM

Irishknight

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quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

For the record, if you have eaten at McDonald's before the government outlawed taking horses to the slaughterhouse in the US, you have probably eaten horse. It is no coincidence that the price of cheeseburger rose significantly when that legislation went into effect.

But where did those horses come from? would they be an acumulation of pet retirement ponies? I doubt it.
In the UK we have certain places like the New Forrest, Dartmoor and Exmoor where ponies run wild in natural herds. Every so often they are rounded up and sold on, usually for meat. What is the difference between this and other animals we use for meat products?

They came from race horses that never made the cut, pets who could no longer be taken care of, and some were said to have been taken from wild mustang herds. Buyers used to cruise the sale barns for unwanted horses to take to the slaughter houses. Many of these horses were, in fact, pets at one point. Most came from breeders and trainers who had ruined an otherwise good horse in the name of racing. The taking of wild mustangs for slaughter was illegal and punishable by hefty fines and imprisonment.... if one was caught. Still, some were rounded up just like the herds you mention.
I'm not condoning it or condemning the practice. I merely state that more people have eaten horse meat than are willing to admit it. Some of us have even eaten dog and cat (they were very tasty). In fact, if I get hungry enough, I can already tell you which of my horses will be the first to get eaten.

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RE: Mysterious horse deaths - 4/30/2009 8:27:37 AM

allthatjaz

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ORIGINAL: Irishknight

I can already tell you which of my horses will be the first to get eaten.

Lol... I have warned one or two about the KittyKat factory!

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