RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment (Full Version)

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Marc2b -> RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment (4/21/2009 8:16:48 PM)

quote:

It was still the result of an interpatation...tweaking if you will. To read subrobs post..it was part and parcel of the Framers original text.


It was.  You do have the right to remain silent (not bear witness against yourself).  You do have the right to counsel.  The Miranda decision didn't create these rights.  It merely added the right to have them read to you when you are arrested.  A dubious interpetation of the Constitution.  I'm not saying the Bill of Rights haven't been "tweaked" (not to mention, ignored, trampled upon, etc).  I am saying that such tweaking is not neccessarily a good thing in and of itself.  It sets a dangerous precedent. 



slvemike4u -> RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment (4/21/2009 8:53:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

So I can yell fire in a theatre....


Don't be a dumbass on purpose.

One person's rights stop where another persons begins. 

I can't shoot anybody for any reason I want to but I still have the right to keep and bear arms.  The fact that some people may abuse that right is no justification for abridging mine. 


I am never a dumbass on purpose.
On the other jand I am,quite often it seems ,disagreeable on purpose....and requiring citizens to register, and wait for background checks...in an effort to make sure you or others don't abridge mine or others right to life ...is not an unreasonable abridgemment of your 2nd amendment rights.



Marc2b -> RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment (4/21/2009 9:00:37 PM)

quote:

I am never a dumbass on purpose.
On the other jand I am,quite often it seems ,disagreeable on purpose....and requiring citizens to register, and wait for background checks...in an effort to make sure you or others don't abridge mine or others right to life ...is not an unreasonable abridgemment of your 2nd amendment rights.


So I am to be held guilty until I prove myself innocent?  I have to pass a test to get my rights.  Again, a dangerous precedent.



slvemike4u -> RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment (4/21/2009 9:04:04 PM)

No.not a test a background check...you know to keep guns out of the hands of all the people you people say you need the guns to protect yourselves from.
Is it a requirement you might fail...of course not so why be an obstuctionist.



ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment (4/21/2009 9:16:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

From your link:

The majority opinion was written by Judge Diarmuid F. O'Scannlain, with a concurring opinion from Judge Ronald M. Gould, who wrote, “The right to bear arms is a bulwark against external invasion…That we have a lawfully armed populace adds a measure of security for all of us and makes it less likely that a band of terrorists could make headway in an attack on any community before more professional forces arrived.”

I can only say thank God for these wise judges.

I myself sleep every night with a loaded shotgun at my side.

Just in case a band of terrorists decides to invade my home.


Jesus christ. I am an adamant proponent of gun rights, but that has to be absolutely the most idiotic argument I have ever heard in favor of my position. It's so mind-bogglingly illogical, I don't even know how to respond to it. I like to win, but I'm embarrassed to win that way.



rulemylife -> RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment (4/21/2009 9:20:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

And these rights are subject to change and interpretation.


If that is true then there is no such things as rights.



So you mean to say there have been no amendments or Supreme Court interpretations that changed how we view the meaning of certain constitutional provisions?



slvemike4u -> RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment (4/21/2009 9:25:52 PM)

But not the 2nd Rule,that one is sacrosant.....someone wake me up from my nightmare.



rulemylife -> RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment (4/21/2009 9:26:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

So I am to be held guilty until I prove myself innocent?  I have to pass a test to get my rights.  Again, a dangerous precedent.



Oh come on, in how many different areas of life do we have to prove ourselves innocent?

Been through an airport recently?



Marc2b -> RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment (4/21/2009 9:31:04 PM)

quote:

No.not a test a background check...you know to keep guns out of the hands of all the people you people say you need the guns to protect yourselves from.


Except that it doesn't keep guns out of their hands.

quote:

Is it a requirement you might fail...of course not so why be an obstuctionist.


I'm always happy to be an obstructionist to tryanny.



Marc2b -> RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment (4/21/2009 9:32:10 PM)

quote:

So you mean to say there have been no amendments or Supreme Court interpretations that changed how we view the meaning of certain constitutional provisions?


No.  I am saying that if rights can be arbitrarily changed then they are meaningless.



slvemike4u -> RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment (4/21/2009 9:33:03 PM)

Rule why don't you get it...nothing else matters when we are talking about guns....and the right to possess on command.That has been handed down from on high and can not be trifled with.....no matter how many bodies drop.



Marc2b -> RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment (4/21/2009 9:33:17 PM)

quote:

But not the 2nd Rule,that one is sacrosant.....someone wake me up from my nightmare.


[sm=blasted.gif] BANG!

Will that do?

[:)]



Marc2b -> RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment (4/21/2009 9:34:26 PM)

quote:

Oh come on, in how many different areas of life do we have to prove ourselves innocent?

Been through an airport recently?


Doesn't make it right.



slvemike4u -> RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment (4/21/2009 9:35:48 PM)

would you get on a plane where there was no security check?



slvemike4u -> RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment (4/21/2009 9:38:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

So you mean to say there have been no amendments or Supreme Court interpretations that changed how we view the meaning of certain constitutional provisions?


No.  I am saying that if rights can be arbitrarily changed then they are meaningless.
Nothing arbitrary about it.The tests have been held ,the data is in...guns kill people in alarming numbers...conclusion reached....we need to do something to address the problem.Simple wasn't it...and not in the least arbitary.



Marc2b -> RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment (4/21/2009 9:41:37 PM)

quote:

would you get on a plane where there was no security check?


I would if I could take my gun on it.



StrangerThan -> RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment (4/21/2009 9:45:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

So I am to be held guilty until I prove myself innocent?  I have to pass a test to get my rights.  Again, a dangerous precedent.



Oh come on, in how many different areas of life do we have to prove ourselves innocent?

Been through an airport recently?



I've been through a lot of airports lately and it pisses me off every time I do. Still, I really don't have to prove innocence there, just my identity - along with not doing something stupid.

I don't know about anyone else, but the last time I bought a gun I had to fill out paperwork, go to the sheriff's office and wait 5 days... and we need to make that process more difficult?

It's rather notable too that many of the breakdown shooters would have passed any tests.

But I don't go to gun shows. What I do know is that many more murders occur one at time than en masse, yet it is the en masse that drives the desire for legislation that will mostly affect legal people.



rulemylife -> RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment (4/21/2009 9:46:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

So you mean to say there have been no amendments or Supreme Court interpretations that changed how we view the meaning of certain constitutional provisions?


No.  I am saying that if rights can be arbitrarily changed then they are meaningless.


Well then I have to ask what you mean by arbitrarily.  There are established procedures for amendments.



slvemike4u -> RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment (4/21/2009 9:48:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

would you get on a plane where there was no security check?


I would if I could take my gun on it.

And the rest of the passengers should just take on faith your good intentions....
now before you tell me they should have their own weapons....I hope you think long and hard about the indefensible position you are about to stake out.Good luck with this,logic can be so inescapable at times.



Marc2b -> RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment (4/21/2009 9:48:11 PM)

quote:

Nothing arbitrary about it.The tests have been held ,the data is in...guns kill people in alarming numbers...conclusion reached....we need to do something to address the problem.Simple wasn't it...and not in the least arbitary.


Yes it is arbitray because your "solution" has no thought behind it.  "Gun kill people!  We have to keep guns out of the hands of certain individuals!"  It is a knee jerk, feel good reaction.

"I want to keep guns out of the hands of certain individual, therefore I'm a good person."  What a crock of shit.  I'd also like to keep guns out of the hands of certain individuals - I just to want to trample the rights of  others to do so.  The price is too high and the "solution" will not work anyway.

Heroin was deemed a problem so we banned heroin.  Has that solution worked?   







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