RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment (Full Version)

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DarkSteven -> RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment (4/22/2009 6:15:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

Gun aren't any different.  The same goes for them as for all our rights.  That's the big picture.  If it's okay to take away one right, then why is it not okay to take away any of the others?



I;m at a loss here.  I take the Constitution and Bill of Rights seriously.  The Second Amendment clearly states that citizens can own and wear guns.  I'm unaware of any rights that are infringed by the Wal-Mart cameras.




Marc2b -> RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment (4/22/2009 6:39:34 AM)

quote:

I;m at a loss here.  I take the Constitution and Bill of Rights seriously.  The Second Amendment clearly states that citizens can own and wear guns.  I'm unaware of any rights that are infringed by the Wal-Mart cameras.


It has nothing to do with whether the Constitution says (or rather doesn’t say) about Wal-Mart and cameras.  It has to do with the slippery slope.  It has to do with spineless sheep bleating on their master’s command.

“Don’t mind the cameras, they’re there for your safety.”

“Baaaaaa…” (Translates as “yes, Master”).

“Give me your guns.  Guns are bad for you.”

“Baaaaaa…”

“Oh by the way, here’s a list of things you must never say.”

“Baaaaaa…”

“Also, we need you to answer this police officer’s questions about what you were doing last Tuesday night.  You don’t need a lawyer.  This is for your own safety, you understand.”

“Baaaaa…”

You’ve heard of snakes on a plane?  Well, this is sheep on a slope.




slvemike4u -> RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment (4/22/2009 6:48:40 AM)

Ahhh,the slippery slope theory....heads up Marc ,we have already fell down the rabbit hole.




Marc2b -> RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment (4/22/2009 7:08:20 AM)

quote:

Ahhh,the slippery slope theory....heads up Marc ,we have already fell down the rabbit hole.


Tell it to the Jews who were living in Germany during the 1930’s

A “tweak” here, a “tweak” there…

Next thing you know you’re plunging full speed down the slide, right into the corral…

Where the farmer is waiting to fuck you in the ass.




rulemylife -> RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment (4/22/2009 7:18:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b


So your posistion (which you don't agree with) is: our rights and freedoms are violated every day, therefore it is okay to violate our rights and freedoms?

Gun aren't any different.  The same goes for them as for all our rights.  That's the big picture.  If it's okay to take away one right, then why is it not okay to take away any of the others?



No, my position is that we allow many violations of our rights in the name of safety.

Airport searches, security cameras, etc., but if I understand the NRA correctly they hold the position that there should be absolutely no restrictions concerning something that has proven time and again to be a major safety issue.




Marc2b -> RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment (4/22/2009 7:35:30 AM)

quote:

No, my position is that we allow many violations of our rights in the name of safety.

Airport searches, security cameras, etc., but if I understand the NRA correctly they hold the position that there should be absolutely no restrictions concerning something that has proven time and again to be a major safety issue.


And my position is that if we continue to allow violations of our rights in the name of safety then we will soon have neither (how safe are you from a dictator?).

There comes a point of diminishing returns.  We can make autos much safer than they are now – but they will be tanks that only get a mile to a gallon of gas.  We may not like it but there are rarely solutions – only trade-offs.

As for the NRA, I don’t care what their position is; as I said before, I’m not a member.

We are going around in circles here.  You can have the last word if you want it.




Owner59 -> RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment (4/22/2009 8:11:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

Ahhh,the slippery slope theory....heads up Marc ,we have already fell down the rabbit hole.


Tell it to the Jews who were living in Germany during the 1930’s

A “tweak” here, a “tweak” there…

Next thing you know you’re plunging full speed down the slide, right into the corral…

Where the farmer is waiting to fuck you in the ass.


oh jeezzz the nazi reference...perect credibility booster.....btw.

lighten the fuck up already, will you?  Jesus H. Christ!





Marc2b -> RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment (4/22/2009 8:26:24 AM)

Yeah… You’re right… Who gives a shit what happened back then?  They were only Jews after all.  Silly me... thinking that there was anything to learn from history. 

Perhaps it would make you feel better if I referenced the Gitmo detainees instead?




Owner59 -> RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment (4/22/2009 8:30:59 AM)

psssssssssssssssss......

<sound of your credibility sinking>




Marc2b -> RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment (4/22/2009 8:49:21 AM)

[sm=ofcourse.gif]

Silly me, again! 

I forgot for a moment there that you are an ideologue.

 




slvemike4u -> RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment (4/22/2009 9:38:00 AM)

And you aren't?




Marc2b -> RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment (4/22/2009 10:26:31 AM)

Nope.

The ideologue believes himself to have sole possession of the truth.  They allow no disputation of that arrogant conceit.  If anything appears to contradict their ideology then it turns out to really be lies told by the ideologues enemies be they Jews, black people, capitalists, communists, neo-cons, or whatever.

The ideologue never questions his own ideology (because it doesn’t need to be questioned – the ideology is never wrong).  I am the very antithesis of the ideologue.  Everything must be questioned. 




slvemike4u -> RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment (4/22/2009 10:40:51 AM)

Incluiding the right to buy a weapon at a gun show ...minus registration and background check?




Sanity -> RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment (4/22/2009 11:26:55 AM)


Assuming that people have the right to own guns, there is no need for registrations or background checks.


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Incluiding the right to buy a weapon at a gun show ...minus registration and background check?




ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment (4/22/2009 11:30:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Assuming that people have the right to own guns, there is no need for registrations or background checks.


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Incluiding the right to buy a weapon at a gun show ...minus registration and background check?



You're not suggesting that convicted murderers have the right to own handguns, are you?




slvemike4u -> RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment (4/22/2009 11:50:13 AM)

Or subjects of orders of protection...those with a history of mental instability..or wait for it......pedophiles.
Surely we can agree keeping these people from owning firearms is a useful endeavor.Now if we could just agree how to go about accomplishing this reasonable task...in a reasonable manner,One designed to not infringe to greatly on the actual law abiding citizen.




Marc2b -> RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment (4/22/2009 11:59:04 AM)

quote:

Incluiding the right to buy a weapon at a gun show ...minus registration and background check?


Of course.  Why do you think I’ve been talking to you and others on these boards?  If I only wanted confirmation of my own opinions I’d sit in my easy chair and just talk to myself. 




ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment (4/22/2009 12:23:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b
Why do you think I’ve been talking to you and others on these boards?  If I only wanted confirmation of my own opinions I’d sit in my easy chair and just talk to myself. 


No offense, but it's always been my impression that that's exactly what you are doing. You assert a position, then defend it angrily. I've never seen you do much of anything else.




slvemike4u -> RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment (4/22/2009 12:30:41 PM)

Ditto.
edited to add...Not my most eloquent post but the DammedPanda did seem to have the base covered.




Termyn8or -> RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment (4/22/2009 1:09:03 PM)

Settle down now.

I have a gun because it can kill, not in spite of the fact, so let's get that out of the way. Our right to keep and bear arms includes the right to use the guns against the government, read the rest of the Constitution if you don't believe that.

Also, if you want to keep guns away from crazies and criminals, forget it, the words were "shall not be abridged", that means the fact that other people have guns either keep these people in line, or kill them before they do too much damage. If one is barred from a basic right like this because of a conviction, that is a bill of attainder, and that is also banned by the Constitution. With the vast body of laws in this contry, which are selectively enforced, you just can't go by that anymore.

The trick to a secure society is that those who would perpetrate evil deeds are inhibited by the distinct possibility that someone else might have a gun and shoot them. It really is that simple and it does indeed include the government, that is if I know the English language well enough that my reading of the Constitution had the proper meaning to me. I just don't think that I am that illiteraste.

The Constitution is a document that enumerates the powers, as well as some of the limits bestowed on government.

If we have to interpret the second amendment faithfully, we must not engage in reading between the lines. That is what the opposition does, and it is wrong when anyone does it. For example is does not say you can have dangerous high explosives in populated areas. You can't have nukes or ABC weapons, it simply does not say that, and even as one of the most staunch supporters of the second amendment, I don't read that into it. I am also aware that in many towns in the old west you checked your gun with the local sherriff, there were too many people in a small area, and with paper thin walls on the buildings and the bars, it was reasonable. The people supported it, but residents kept their firearms because they were in their own homes.

If you wanted to visit the town, pick your gun up on the way out, if you donm't want to give it up, just ride on through. They made no attempt to take it, you simply weren't welcome. People supported such things because they didn't want their family members killed by a stray bullet. It was reasonable, in a town with an elected sherriff and peacful people. But when you rode out, you get it back.

Last but not least, if they come for my guns, they will get them, lead first. And they will have to pry my cold dead fingers off of them. A right is a right. A license confers a right not pre-eminent. I think the founding documents of this country are pretty much pre-eminent. And they are clear on this matter.

Put it this way, if I were to kill someone with my bare hands, would they cut my hands off ? What if I were a much worse sociopath, and did so, what would they do ? Lock me up, keep me from getting a gun ? Hell I didn't need one last time so what's the point ? Except if my possible victims are armed. That is another aspect of it. And as someone uses as a sig line - when seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

I don't know how else to put it.

T




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