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friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? - 4/23/2009 10:00:36 AM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		How often do we hear a complaint about dominant’s sending an email and expecting the bitch to kneel before even a first name is known?  I believe we see this complaint mostly from female submissive’s, from what I have seen around here.  Most wish to get to know someone and lay a foundation of trust before anyone goes too far into acting on their dominance and submission.  Yet, I see a different picture when dealing with male submissive’s.  Now it could be an online thing or a wanking thing, but I am not sure that it is beneficial to label someone wanker so quickly and based on a few things. (Although I have.)  I do think there may be a fine line here.

I find that many who contact me rush to the Mistress and ‘dominate me’ nearly from day one and they won’t see you as a dominant unless you are quickly dominating them.  They don’t want a friend or buddy in the getting to know you process, but a dominant full on, cracking that whip from moment one.  It seems like dominant first, friend second.

Is it so simple in that a lot of the male submissive’s are here just to get their kink on?  Or could there be more to this?  In the vanilla realm… for lack of a better word or phrase, it is often said that men relate sexually and bond and get closer from sex and women wish to bond and get closer before sex.  Is this playing out in d/s and bdsm as well?  Quick to the punch line and you have the male submissive’s in a sense bowing and ready to eat out of your hand?  Where with the female submissive’s they need more before they get to the stage where they are willing to submit?

Being a woman and dominant and simply who I am, I am not going to dominate anyone until I see some foundation for it and even at that point I am not coming in swinging the whip!  My dominance isn’t given to just anyone and I will often come off as the friend or buddy type and I am fine with that.  It is how I would rather things go.  Yet I am often wondered about on whether I am in fact dominant or not.  I am not giving my dominance to just anyone or everyone and if that is a sign of some lack in my dominance, I could actually care less, but I would like to understand what I am seeing if I don’t already.

I see some male submissive’s that are articulate and very intelligent who say that they need to build a foundation before they submit and they seem different than those that quickly wish to rush into things and yet, after watching a number of them for some time, they will respond to those dominant’s who are more demanding or act more dominant even in a friend capacity.  I have seen it repeatedly, so I don’t think it is my imagination! LOL  Again I am not complaining nor do I have a problem, I am just very curious about this for a number of reasons.

Is it an end goal of a longer term relationship that makes the difference in who and how, when it comes to how quickly the d/s or bdsm comes into things?

Is it a gender thing and a natural way of bonding and getting close?

Is it simply a wanking thing?

Do people see what I am seeing, as I see it or ?  I would like to get past the smart or what is seen as the right answer to some and actually know what people really think or feel about this.

As a male submissive, do you ever say you want to go the route of friends or getting to know a dominant before anything else happens and then find yourself responding more to those who show dominance towards you quicker?

Male or female, dominant or submissive; how do you expect things to go and how does it actually work out?

What do you all think?



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RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? - 4/23/2009 10:02:19 AM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		You've been reading my mind, Lockit!  But I am letting some of the mens talk first.

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RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? - 4/23/2009 10:34:34 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		As a male submissive, do you ever say you want to go the route of friends or getting to know a dominant before anything else happens and then find yourself responding more to those who show dominance towards you quicker?
 
Male or female, dominant or submissive; how do you expect things to go and how does it actually work out?

I say that I want to get the know the dominant before anything else happens because I literally can't do otherwise.  It doesn't feel real.  I don't feel that I'm being me if I 'act subby' and I feel likewise about the woman concerned if she acts in a 'dommely' way towards me.  Eventually, either the exchanges between us have dwindled to nothing if the D/s tone is maintained, or that tone has faded away as we've become friends.

I can't do D/s relationships at a distance - though I can do friendships that way.  Basically, if I like a woman in a friendly way, that's what'll make the first difference, not the level of D/s that's involved in our exchanges.  The second, and by far the more important, difference in the way I feel about that relates to the likelihood of she and I actually meeting in the foreseeable future.


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RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? - 4/23/2009 10:44:29 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		My answer is going to be somewhat all over the place.  Wish Me luck in getting it to make sense.

What I'm hearing in the question is very similar to when people ask if love is a necessary component in D/s.  The answer, of course is going to vary from person to person and what they want the dynamic to be. Although I am fortunate enough to have both love and friendship in the dynamic that I have that exists today, I do have to say that, no, it wasn't a requirement.  All I really require is to be receiving a submissive energy from the person I'm dealing with, and they in return are receiving a Dominant energy from Me.  That's the basics.  Anything else is icing on the cake.

I can attract and/or exude such energy without knowing the other individual at all.  I do take power willfully given and I do use it.  I don't attempt to dominate every person that I run across.  I don't bark orders at people who aren't willing to take them.  I have an uncanny ability to tell who is receptive and who isn't.  Most people I've encountered in a BDSM type of mingling who have felt submissive towards Me from the first meeting have told Me that it was immediate.  I don't know if that's due to My chemistry, or My make-up, or what have you.  It's simply something that happens.

Keep in mind that I'm talking about the physical world here.  Not especially the online one.  In that way, I'd have to say that it's practically the opposite.  As I get to know someone, I'll know whether or not I have an interest in Dominating him.  That tends to be a more getting to know you as a friend kind of process.  I'm more likely to speak as a friend, because the energy is still in the yet to be determined phase.  Should I meet the online person in meatlife, see the above reference.  Friend might be in the background, but Dominance takes over.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? - 4/23/2009 10:50:23 AM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Thank you for the post so far!  I am with LH on this at the moment.  I kind of want to sit back and watch things evolve here and then make any comments or response's.  That is no easy thing to do because the response's are great so far and I sooooooo want to say something, but... tempering the lil jabber mouth here! lol

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RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? - 4/23/2009 11:09:05 AM   
sensura


Posts: 71
Joined: 2/8/2009
Status: offline 		True dominance/submission is about trust and respect. How can one have that without a foundation of friendship first. Anything else is just roleplay.

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RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? - 4/23/2009 11:11:30 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I see a fair number of inexperienced female subs not bothering to ask any questions before accepting a cyber collar. And then wondering if she should do what he says when it could lose her a job, get her arrested, etc. I think sub frenzy can strike both genders. And dominants also. Dommes are more likely to get a warm body to wail on if they just feel like that, but then they complain afterwards the guy doesn't like service when it's her own fault for not talking about it first.

Unfortunately when the drive to fulfill play hits, common sense tends to walk out the window.

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Cynical and proud of it!


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RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? - 4/23/2009 11:11:57 AM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		What about a vanilla, quick hook up or f buddy and how the man will sometimes grow into something from that hook up?  I can't say how many times I knew a man that had a non serious situation that came to bond with the woman after sex and how many have said that sex is how they bond or connect more with a woman.

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RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? - 4/23/2009 11:34:04 AM   
YoungLust


Posts: 70
Joined: 3/5/2009
Status: offline 		I'm actually pretty uncomfortable talking about kink and going into any sort of D/s roles before getting to know someone. I've talked to a couple of women who were in strict "Bitch-Domme" mode from hello and correspondence didn't go very far.

Personal compatibility should come before any sort of kink. It just seems too many people are too far detached from the realities of true relationships and don't understand that D/s relationships are simply a more specific extension of the average relationship you have with anyone.

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RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? - 4/23/2009 11:48:03 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

What about a vanilla, quick hook up or f buddy and how the man will sometimes grow into something from that hook up?  I can't say how many times I knew a man that had a non serious situation that came to bond with the woman after sex and how many have said that sex is how they bond or connect more with a woman.


Good analogy, Lockit.  It's something like some might say they don't especially have to know a person well enough to like them, but they might be interested in sleeping with them.

(Personally, not My way, but I know plenty of folks out there who it works for.)


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? - 4/23/2009 12:40:33 PM   
MsFlutter


Posts: 1305
Joined: 11/12/2008
From: East Coast
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Being a woman and dominant and simply who I am, I am not going to dominate anyone until I see some foundation for it and even at that point I am not coming in swinging the whip!  My dominance isn’t given to just anyone and I will often come off as the friend or buddy type and I am fine with that.  It is how I would rather things go. 


You've already summed up my thoughts (its that 'I think it, you type it' thing we seem to do LOL)

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RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? - 4/23/2009 1:57:17 PM   
masmiss


Posts: 494
Joined: 2/16/2009
From: New Jersey
Status: offline 		I don't pursue communicating with male subs who start out in their first message referring to me as "Mistress" or telling me exactly how they will serve me.
I need to feel a connection beyond D/s.  Similar interests, ideals, politics,whatever.  That helps me to connect to a potential sub.
I have gotten to the point where I might have felt enough of a connection to talk on the phone but a few times I came to the realization that I was being used as wank fodder. End of communication. 
Overall, my experience has been that the male subs I've connected with were interested in getting to know me first before negotiating the kink.


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I am the captain of my soul.

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RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? - 4/23/2009 3:36:13 PM   
subsubtle


Posts: 59
Joined: 6/7/2008
Status: offline 		You're so smart, Lockit.  This is a great question!

For me, I absolutely want to get to know a woman before submitting to her at all.  But, for me, there is a difference between actually submitting to a woman and behaving submissively towards her.  At my core, I'm a submissive male.  Upon first contact, I will treat any dominant woman with the utmost respect.  This does not mean I want to instantly obey her.  Similiarly, I do like when a woman acts dominant almost instantly.  I am not talking about her calling me humiliating names or giving me orders right away, this is NOT what I mean.  I'm naturally attracted to dominant, strict women.  To know right away that they truly are dominant makes me attracted to them more.  This is in no way wank-material to me.  This can be something as little as her appreciating the fact that I refer to her as "Maam."  To have her ask me personal questions very quickly, and correcting me if I accidentally disrespect her, shows me that she is truly dominant by nature and I do like that.  Sometimes, though, it can also be just a "feeling" I get when talking to her that lets me know that she really is dominant.  When I'm talking to a dominant woman, I do not want to feel like I'm talking to a buddy of mine.  I want to have knowledge in my mind that if I were to say something disrespctful to this woman (not that I ever would), she would reprimand me even though she does not own me.  To me, this is a sign of natural dominance.  I really hope I've made sense here and you don't misinterpret what I'm trying to say!  

Does this make sense?

-mike

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RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? - 4/23/2009 3:47:09 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		 . . . . And another thing.  I do, really, want a partnership that's a blend of friend, lover and dominant.  I have a fantasy - call it romantic, call it sexual - it doesn't matter - of meeting the right woman and our getting along in an ordinary friendly way.  Then, at some point, she or I will choose to change from friends to D/s partners. 

I love the thought of that agreement happening.  It's a wonderful idea for me and I wouldn't want to miss it for the world.  But it feels to me like it can only happen as the result of a natural progression, at some moment after we've met; have felt attracted to one another, that we've clicked . . .  I don't want to spoil the joy of it by trying to drag it up prematurely. 

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RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? - 4/23/2009 4:01:10 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		I agree with Peons posts here, but differ on one point. I can, and have had, A D/s relationship at a distance, this was prior to meeting as well. Prior to that we had been friends via the net and phone and spoke daily.

We always knew one of us was Dominant, from an early stage, and the other...errrr wasnt.

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RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? - 4/23/2009 5:02:37 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		I started a post and had to ditch the entire thing...   I blame the lack of Timbits.

First, let me say that I LOVE to play.  If I am playing with someone experienced,  that person and I can have a fantastic time together, without even knowing each other's names.  Sure, I have to feel a "connection" with who I am playing with, but that connection can be something as simple as "hmm...  nice ..."    That is PLAY.  I make a big distinction between bottoming and submission.  Agreeing to a scene is a whole other world from agreeing to submit.

That said, I am not here to make any casual hookups, and I say that in my profile.  Sure, my objective is to find a nice pain slut that I can welt up and chew on, but there's a lot more to being in ANY kind of relationship with me than that!   I used to have a nic here, "DontBoreMe".  Seriously, HOW can there be so many incredibly dull people in the world?   If a person can't engage my mind on some level, they are not going to be a good match for me, even as a playmate.   Amazingly enough, I don't think about BDSM all the time!  (shocked, aren't you?)  If I am getting to know someone, I really don't want to hear about their kinks, or how good they are at   oral service.  

I am a dominant person, pretty much everywhere.  I am not EVERYONE'S dominant.  Until we have some kind of agreement, I am a person, getting to know another person.  Many folks tell me that I have that "aura" or whatever...  but if they are sensing it, it's THEM, because I am not Ms UberBitchDom.   I use my name, I do not use titles, and if someone approaches me as Mistress and does not get the message when I tell them how I want to be addressed, then they need to move on to another fantasy.  

I am not in any kind of hurry to play with someone on the first date---though I have, if it works out that way.  I can tell you for a fact that there are some disappointed men out there that lost interest because I was not trotting out the toy bag before the dishes were washed!  Oh well.  If I am not in the mood, that's that.  If I want to wait, for whatever reason... then we're waiting.  Sometimes, I am waiting to be ASKED, how's that for mean!     I would rather get to know the other person while we are still dressed, and conversing about normal things.   Building a relationship takes time, and there are plenty of opportunities for play, and other kinds of intimacy.

I am not really sure what to think of all these men who are hot to play, except that it's some kind of sub frenzy.  I mention in my journal the one who offered to  pay me for my time...  there was one the other day who peppered me with cmails asking WHY I thought we were not a match (ummm...your HATE and my LIVE FOR are the same, hint, eh??) and offering to change!  Funny, he couldn't manage to address me as I asked...  

...more garbled thoughts later...


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RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? - 4/23/2009 5:25:51 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		Interesting query, Lockit.  I recently had a conversation along these lines with a younger male dominant who said, "I want to get the sex stuff out of the way."  My interpretation, which may or may not be right, is that many men want to establish the dynamic from the beginning so they know how to behave and don't stumble over the roles and expectations.

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

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RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? - 4/23/2009 5:27:18 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Having sex establishes the dynamic?

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RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? - 4/23/2009 5:33:35 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		Lady Hibiscus,
 
It can for many people.  This was a youger man's way of explaining the need to establish roles right away, and whether or not sex will be involved is up front in his mind at least.   My own approach is much more mellow and laid back, get to know someone first and proceed from there.

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

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RE: friend or dominant, which comes first... gender based? - 4/23/2009 5:40:14 PM   
marie2


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline 		I think men in general, regardless of d/s orientation tend to lead with their sexuality, whereas women tend to lead with the whole friendship, get-to-know-you, thing first.   And dominant males, in my own experience, tend to be dominant (or at least try to be) right from the onset, and many of them expect some degree of deference even before a dynamic (or even relationship) has been established.  

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