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Relationships: A Post Script - 4/24/2009 6:51:14 AM

CatdeMedici

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Over the last few days, Steel has done an admirable job IMHO of trying to point out the various relationships, the reasons for them, the reasons for failure, and even a thread started about self-culpability etc--ok My responses have been glib and sarcastic- and I am sure to more than a few, way off base--lol, that's because I am glib and sarcastic about relationships in this life, well in any life.

So I propose a PS if you will--Interaction between two people doesn't change based on the costume we wear. Ok Ok, some of you will rear and say, it isn't a costume, ok fine--the point is--interaction between two people for any given reason doesn't change because you proclaim yourself Dominant, submissive or Ghostrider in the sky.

There appears to be a preponderance of people who come here thinking, aha, the rules of engagement are different--ah no, they aren't--there is no more or no less a guarantee that in this WIITWD you will be assured of success. Just because you proclaim to be this or that. What it DOES do is define what type of relationship you'd like to have.

BDSM adds a level of complexity--one that can help narrow and define or one that allows more excuses for failure, but at the end of the day, its the interactions between peoples that make or break the relationship and that-- Ladies and Gentlemen is called REALITY. Bills need to be paid, families dealt with, emotions to manage---reality. The IRS doesn't care how full your dungeon is or how many slaves serve you, they care that you have paid your taxes.

I think many of us expect "here" what we expect out there--responsibility, self culpability, maturity and dignity. But there are a whole lot more than seem to think reality doesn't apply. Just because you agreed to be this or that doesn't excuse you from intelligent decisions, growth and maturity.

< Message edited by CatdeMedici -- 4/24/2009 7:00:29 AM >

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RE: Relationships: A Post Script - 4/24/2009 8:08:45 AM

SteelofUtah

Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline

CatdeMedici,

What a wonderful Thread, I, at times get long winded trying to incorporate enough dynamics that my threads don't go so far off course when people try to point out how they DON'T apply to what I am stating and here you have written a post that is beautifully simplistic in idea.

I always find it funny how people who obviously aren't the topic of my threads will feel the need to POINT out that they aren't. I give it a 50/50 wash I figure 50% actually aren't and the other 50% are suffereing a Guilty Conscience.

That being said it isn't like I have all the answers. Hell, before I got confident and started going after what I wanted instead of what I thought I deserved, I was lonely and had all sorts of excuses on why the last great thing didn't work out.

As for BDSM being the same as Normal relationships I agree to about 80% of the time. Because there is a Dynamic within WIITWD that makes dating a little different and that is exactly what you are talking about.

I wanna talk about ...... lets call her ...... pawn. So pawn was a great girl we talked, we flirted, and felt confident in that she was the genuine article. We got to know one another and the kinky sex was always fun but we didn't always have time or the proper situation to play.

pawn liked to talk about some of the more hardcore activities, like being choked out during sex, being tied up and being forced to suck off a dildo while I took her from behind, being spanked with a carving knife, and other various kinky activities. SO one day I just made the choice that we were going to do them and got a room for the weekend. Friday night came, out came the rope and about 20 seconds into the first activity she was TERRIFIED!!!!!!!! She was having a panic attack because she was tied down and I was prepared to have my way. Something we had talked about for WEEKS AND WEEKS she even orgasmed to the idea of it while I described it to her. Why did she freak out? Because in REALITY pawn had NEVER done ANY of the things she fantasized about and the reality was not as good feeling as the Fantasy. This was the end of our relationship. And before she dissapeared off the face of the planet she told a few of the vanilla people we knew that I was a complete and total freak.

So guess what I did? I went into the internal hiding of a no longer self assured Dominant and began questioning if I had in fact done something wrong. I started setting the limits like "No Sub who doesn't have at least 3 years involvement in the lifestyle, conformation that they have played, a full understanding of thier own kinks, confirmed that they have actually partisipated in their kinks, and only girls who's kinks match my own." So I did this and I was by myself and single for a long time. I was so sure I was going to have another meltdown that I just didn't want to chance it again. So instead of actually giving people the fair shot they deserved if they didn't meet this self imposed little cookie cutter shape they were failed without cause and without merit.

I honestly believe all these people who say I know what I deserve and I won't settle for anything less are fine as long as they are actually open to what they deserve, however if they are looking for reasons why someone is NOT what they want then they will always find a reason to cut someone from the tapestry.

So that you know andi and I will have been together as a couple for 3 years on July 27th. I like to call her my Trifecta, because she is EVERYTHING I said I didn't want.

She is Younger than me
She is in Recovery (Just like me)
She is a Hippie
She had NO Previous experience in the Lifestyle (In Fact she didn't know what the lifestyle was when we met)
She didn't have a drivers License or a Car

3 Years Later I realize how silly all those requirements I had were because andi is everything I ever NEEDED and more than anything I could have ever asked for.

Steel

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Post #: 2

RE: Relationships: A Post Script - 4/24/2009 8:35:07 AM

Missokyst

Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline

Thanks! I often feel out of place among people who identify by their roles. Sure I am submissive within some relationships, but that does not mean I abandon the rest of my life. Bills still must be paid, family still requires attention, and I am still me no matter what hour of the day. Labels are nice when you want someone to open the can, but once it is open it is simply a meal. You can open a can of corn and eat it as is, add it to other things, smash it up and turn it into a cornmeal muffin.. but it is still corn.
I don't know, perhaps if people remembered that underneath the relationship we are still human with needs and feelings there would be less of a desire to catagorize and make that can of corn into ice cream. Personally, I don't know of many that would make great chefs on that cooking show.
Kyst

(in reply to CatdeMedici)

Post #: 3

RE: Relationships: A Post Script - 4/24/2009 9:00:36 AM

breatheasone

Posts: 4004
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

Mr. Steel, Thank you for that post. What you wrote honestly taught me something, and i'm grateful to you for taking the time to share that.

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Post #: 4

RE: Relationships: A Post Script - 4/24/2009 9:15:22 AM

SirSvafnir

Posts: 10
Joined: 11/30/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici

So I propose a PS if you will--Interaction between two people doesn't change based on the costume we wear. Ok Ok, some of you will rear and say, it isn't a costume, ok fine--the point is--interaction between two people for any given reason doesn't change because you proclaim yourself Dominant, submissive or Ghostrider in the sky.

This is a very good thread and I agree with your main point, however I do feel that interaction does change depending on the costume that you are wearing at the time. As people will respond to the costume that you show them, and we all have many costumes even if we dont realize it.

(in reply to CatdeMedici)

Post #: 5

RE: Relationships: A Post Script - 4/24/2009 9:26:38 AM

beargonewild

Posts: 22716
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirSvafnir

quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici

So I propose a PS if you will--Interaction between two people doesn't change based on the costume we wear. Ok Ok, some of you will rear and say, it isn't a costume, ok fine--the point is--interaction between two people for any given reason doesn't change because you proclaim yourself Dominant, submissive or Ghostrider in the sky.

This is a very good thread and I agree with your main point, however I do feel that interaction does change depending on the costume that you are wearing at the time. As people will respond to the costume that you show them, and we all have many costumes even if we dont realize it.

That I agree with yet the fact still remains that the people involved are still engaging in a relationship. It doesn't matter of it progresses from friends to lovers to a couple to a master/slave situation. All those are simply one aspect to the core relationship of two people mutually entering in a symbiotic relationship with each other. Interactions are in a constant change with any type of relationship, though as I see it that is just the surface aspects changing.

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Post #: 6

RE: Relationships: A Post Script - 4/24/2009 9:27:24 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

I get really tired when people say a bdsm relationship is different, special and so on. No it isn't. A healthy relationship is a healthy relationship. If you don't feel able to speak up, don't feel as if you are being heard, if you are being negated and belittled, it isn't because you're a sub/slave. It is because you have problems picking good partners and you picked a lemon.

And you will keep picking lemons until you deal with your own issues and learn what a healthy relationship is, and how to have it.

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Post #: 7

RE: Relationships: A Post Script - 4/24/2009 9:28:01 AM

Kaiel

Posts: 748
Joined: 4/17/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

CatdeMedici,

What a wonderful Thread, I, at times get long winded trying to incorporate enough dynamics that my threads don't go so far off course when people try to point out how they DON'T apply to what I am stating and here you have written a post that is beautifully simplistic in idea.

I always find it funny how people who obviously aren't the topic of my threads will feel the need to POINT out that they aren't. I give it a 50/50 wash I figure 50% actually aren't and the other 50% are suffereing a Guilty Conscience.

That being said it isn't like I have all the answers. Hell, before I got confident and started going after what I wanted instead of what I thought I deserved, I was lonely and had all sorts of excuses on why the last great thing didn't work out.

As for BDSM being the same as Normal relationships I agree to about 80% of the time. Because there is a Dynamic within WIITWD that makes dating a little different and that is exactly what you are talking about.

I wanna talk about ...... lets call her ...... pawn. So pawn was a great girl we talked, we flirted, and felt confident in that she was the genuine article. We got to know one another and the kinky sex was always fun but we didn't always have time or the proper situation to play.

pawn liked to talk about some of the more hardcore activities, like being choked out during sex, being tied up and being forced to suck off a dildo while I took her from behind, being spanked with a carving knife, and other various kinky activities. SO one day I just made the choice that we were going to do them and got a room for the weekend. Friday night came, out came the rope and about 20 seconds into the first activity she was TERRIFIED!!!!!!!! She was having a panic attack because she was tied down and I was prepared to have my way. Something we had talked about for WEEKS AND WEEKS she even orgasmed to the idea of it while I described it to her. Why did she freak out? Because in REALITY pawn had NEVER done ANY of the things she fantasized about and the reality was not as good feeling as the Fantasy. This was the end of our relationship. And before she dissapeared off the face of the planet she told a few of the vanilla people we knew that I was a complete and total freak.

So guess what I did? I went into the internal hiding of a no longer self assured Dominant and began questioning if I had in fact done something wrong. I started setting the limits like "No Sub who doesn't have at least 3 years involvement in the lifestyle, conformation that they have played, a full understanding of thier own kinks, confirmed that they have actually partisipated in their kinks, and only girls who's kinks match my own." So I did this and I was by myself and single for a long time. I was so sure I was going to have another meltdown that I just didn't want to chance it again. So instead of actually giving people the fair shot they deserved if they didn't meet this self imposed little cookie cutter shape they were failed without cause and without merit.

I honestly believe all these people who say I know what I deserve and I won't settle for anything less are fine as long as they are actually open to what they deserve, however if they are looking for reasons why someone is NOT what they want then they will always find a reason to cut someone from the tapestry.

So that you know andi and I will have been together as a couple for 3 years on July 27th. I like to call her my Trifecta, because she is EVERYTHING I said I didn't want.

She is Younger than me
She is in Recovery (Just like me)
She is a Hippie
She had NO Previous experience in the Lifestyle (In Fact she didn't know what the lifestyle was when we met)
She didn't have a drivers License or a Car

3 Years Later I realize how silly all those requirements I had were because andi is everything I ever NEEDED and more than anything I could have ever asked for.

Steel

Steel great reply!! I can totally relate. I too, have found Myself saying," what do I do wrong?" you (the sub) stated you were experienced in this, this and that and when it boiled down to it, the sub had no experience at all... it was all in his mind, his fantasy. I think people in general need to realize that stepping out of the fantasy and into reality takes a lot of guts as well as honesty! Because if you're not honest, you may find yourself curled up in the fetal position crying with a Domme standing over you with a deerskin flogger! (ok, flashback sorry)

Anyway...

I have a 24/7 bdsm (D/s) Female lead marriage, but let's face it... the majority of the time it's pretty everyday normal vanilla stuff (paying bills, taking the kids to school etc...) with a slight twist. Hell, who could manage role-playing, scening (sp?) and f*cking everyday all day, anyway? LOL

< Message edited by Kaiel -- 4/24/2009 9:29:01 AM >

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Post #: 8

RE: Relationships: A Post Script - 4/24/2009 9:28:36 AM

catize

Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline

Using the dominant as an excuse, “he/she made me do this” can be hiding from our own truth. Many times the reality is our dominant partner is simply liberating us to do what we’ve wanted to all along. We either couldn’t admit it or feared social repercussions.

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Post #: 9

RE: Relationships: A Post Script - 4/24/2009 9:44:53 AM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline

This is the thing about *knowing someone*. It's easy , very easy in fact to rule many people out of the running for all sorts of reasons that you've rationalised you either want or do NOT want. And then along comes someone that is packaged up with half the things you were SO certain you didn't want ....only they are wrapped in different way, an attractive way.

I've ended up with *Simon Cowell with slightly less white teeth* , according to my womb-escapers. Now, the chance of that is SO remote that is laughable. The attrubutes he has would be repulsive to me in the majority of blokes.

It's all in the mix.

In response to the OP.........I think a lot of people DO expect it to be far simpler etc ............and in many ways it IS. But it's also very complex alongside that, in a very different way. The basic premise that you actually have to be compatable in enough ways to get past the ones where you aren't, is no different to any relationship, nope.

agirl

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Post #: 10

RE: Relationships: A Post Script - 4/24/2009 10:54:33 AM

Lockit

Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

Reality for the realistic is a wonderful thing to live, even when it is challenging... but for those who are escaping it, they become an 'all too real' reality, to the realistic.

I am now going to wash my mouth out...

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Post #: 11

RE: Relationships: A Post Script - 4/24/2009 11:02:03 AM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Reality for the realistic is a wonderful thing to live, even when it is challenging... but for those who are escaping it, they become an 'all too real' reality, to the realistic.

I am now going to wash my mouth out...

There's a comforting factor ..... At least you know that what you hope won't happen probably will.

agirl

(in reply to Lockit)

Post #: 12

RE: Relationships: A Post Script - 4/24/2009 11:03:31 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirSvafnir

quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici

So I propose a PS if you will--Interaction between two people doesn't change based on the costume we wear. Ok Ok, some of you will rear and say, it isn't a costume, ok fine--the point is--interaction between two people for any given reason doesn't change because you proclaim yourself Dominant, submissive or Ghostrider in the sky.

This is a very good thread and I agree with your main point, however I do feel that interaction does change depending on the costume that you are wearing at the time. As people will respond to the costume that you show them, and we all have many costumes even if we dont realize it.

I totally agree with this. People are funny and fickle creatures. In one breath, you will get people for sure who will disagree with this. On the other hand, these are and will be the same people who will state that 'I may be submissive/slave/Master/Mistress but that doesn't mean I am your submissive/slave/Master/Mistress.' The costume changes with each person. And I can bet in life in general, many people would behave differently to a plain clothed officer to one in uniform should they break the law or be questioned in someway, until they knew they were an officer, anyway....

the.dark.

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RE: Relationships: A Post Script - 4/24/2009 11:03:54 AM

Lockit

Posts: 11292
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lol agirl... ain't that the truth!

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Post #: 14

RE: Relationships: A Post Script - 4/24/2009 12:26:23 PM

wisdomofgiving

Posts: 55
Joined: 3/19/2009
Status: offline

Relationships of all kinds will have difficult periods. Communication and honesty is suggested a lot by others in regards to relationships. There is one relationship that will always be the most important one, the one you have with yourself. How honest can you really be with yourself? Knowing your weakness and patterns is one thing, but how much work will you put into changing them verses changing yourself for someone else or trying to change another for you? People spend a large amount of energy escaping themselves and focusing that energy somewhere else. It is not necessary to be single to take the journey of exploring who you are and why you repeat patterns.It can also be done in the present relationship one is in. Many choose not to delve into that arena. It is easier to find that perfect ideal person to make you feel whole. The reality of it though is if you arent whole already, and expect another to help you become so, the fantasy eventually gets pop, like a balloon, and the searching begins again.

We can't run away from ourselves, and no one will make us whole, but ourselves. We can share who we are with others and receive from others who they are. We cant change a person, though we each can be treasures in others life's. Enjoy the treasure in another as well as you.

wisdomofgiving

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Post #: 15

RE: Relationships: A Post Script - 4/24/2009 12:41:36 PM

CallaFirestormBW

Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline

quote:

BDSM adds a level of complexity--one that can help narrow and define or one that allows more excuses for failure, but at the end of the day, its the interactions between peoples that make or break the relationship

See, to me, this is the big thing that people miss when they start thinking that wandering over into that realm of wierdos (whether 'wierdo' is classified as GLBT, BDSM, Bodymod, Poly, or whatever it is that exists outside of the mainstream version of one-man-one-woman-2.5 kids-missionary position sex only after marriage) will get them into a realtionship faster or easier.. in fact, leaving mainstream to look for a relationship doesn't make finding companions EASIER, it makes it more complicated. It adds another (often tangled) dimension to a process that is already frought with complications and misapprehensions. Sometimes, you don't have a choice. What you are is so clear to you that it's apparent that the person that you will survive a relationship with is probably somewhere in the realm of wierdos... but for the people who wander in thinking it will be a bed of roses and they'll just pick off a few of the peachiest blossoms... well...

Being kinky doesn't make relationships easier and doesn't remove all the deeper core issues that people have--it layers on even more areas in which we need to come to agreement, and adds in really complicated issues of fear, trust, and latent emotional sinkholes, and being in a relationship with a person who is of an alternative mindset often requires opening one's own mind beyond it's comfort zones, just to be able to have an honest conversation about how we really feel about the things that are being proposed as part of the life we're looking at being a part of now -- and it also requires a greater-than-average capacity for forgiveness as we all try to sort out what will work and what won't without having much of a communal foundation on which to base our relationships.

On top of that, there are all the issues of how to deal with mainstream society -- "Do we let people know that we're from the group of wierdos? Are we mainstream enough to pass? What if I want to let folks know and you don't? Won't everyone guess that you are, too, if they figure out you're with me? Ok, so maybe we just won't let anyone know that you're with me... but can I date someone -else- then who I can take to company parties???"

In the end, I think many alternative relationships fall apart for the same reasons regular ones do -- there just weren't enough areas of common ground to be able to hold the relationship together well.... but for those of us who reside on the fringes of society, sometimes the sheer volume of areas in which we -don't- mesh with the mainstream world is going to complicate our ability to mesh with individuals who still see themselves as having a foot in that world, especially if pressure to fold comes from both inside the person, inside the relationship, and from the outside world as well.

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 4/24/2009 12:51:53 PM >

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Post #: 16

RE: Relationships: A Post Script - 4/24/2009 3:18:30 PM

allthatjaz

Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline

Callafirestorm we are very much in agreement with what your saying. Building any relationship can be complex but with the added elements of D/s and BDSM and forming the right chemistry from that can make it even more complex.
In our experience, what we have is deeper than if it had just been formed on a vanilla basis, though I use the word 'just' lightly. The communication has to be much more open. Being able to talk openly about all your sexual needs and wants is essential and sadly I think this is greatly lacking within a lot of the vanilla world.

Steel I can very much relate to the story of pawn. I have met a few 'nearly Doms and nearly subs too'

Maria

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Post #: 17

RE: Relationships: A Post Script - 4/24/2009 4:13:41 PM

InTonguesslut

Posts: 401
Joined: 3/5/2009
Status: offline

Well i'm pretty sure that with the abundance of threads recently telling people how to run their relationships and how not to it has been rammed down our throats enough for us all not to fuck up anymore

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Post #: 18

RE: Relationships: A Post Script - 4/24/2009 4:37:30 PM

Joseff

Posts: 505
Joined: 6/2/2007
Status: offline

One major element in BDSM relationships, as opposed to vanilla, is trust. Not that trust isn't required in vanilla relationships, it is key to all relationships. At some point, we must all lay our heart on the table and say "here, do with it as you will." In bdsm, however, we really want to play with the potential partner fairly soon, because that is a major part of the relationship, and determining if the partner is right for you. And as we know, that first scene requires a major outlay of trust. We're not just saying "here take my heart," we're saying, "here, take my heart, body, and mind...." This definitely adds a deeper, more complex dynamic to what we do. What the OP has to say about reality is valid, but the internet does give a little initial insulation between the fantasy and that first cold shock of reality, but if the relationship is going to progress, that first meeting has got to happen.

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This is gonna hurt...

Joseff

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Post #: 19

RE: Relationships: A Post Script - 4/24/2009 5:06:01 PM

CatdeMedici

Posts: 2257
Joined: 10/20/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslut

Well i'm pretty sure that with the abundance of threads recently telling people how to run their relationships and how not to it has been rammed down our throats enough for us all not to fuck up anymore

I hardly think anyone TOLD you what to do or not do, people shared their personal experiences which at times has to count for something--but then again, there are those who don't choose to listen/learn/ponder and forge their own path...

Irregardles.

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"Let's see-whips, dips, chains, chips, yep sounds like a party to Me!"

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Post #: 20

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