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ORIGINAL: TaoWoman

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ORIGINAL: QuixoticErrant



This is where I want to comment about boundaries. There is a difference between the world of BDSM and the world of things that need to be soberly considered outside of BDSM. My two cents here is that no-one under any context should attempt to change the core person of their lover. This is a dangerous enough trap in the vanilla world and I can not count the number of failed relationships I have seen where one partner demanded to "change" something fundamental in the other partner. It is a seductive enough trap as it is. Everyone wants their partner to be "perfect" for them. In BDSM though, the Dominant is used to getting his way. The submissive is used to surrendering to it.

Only speaking from personal experience, this indeed can occur and the D/s dynamic facilitates it. Intelligent and strong women can be reduced to compromising their core selves by one of the many masks of manipulative domination~

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ORIGINAL: QuixoticErrant
Now I get where you are coming from. Apparently you believe that with proper BDSM she would not speak to her friends about her relationship. Clearly that is the contradiction you see. If that is how you see it, I am not going to argue with your way of doing things. However, many masters, myself included, expect that their submissives are still going to act like normal people - and that means that they will occasionally talk to their friends - even about me.

As to any control I have over her, I am not trying to think for her at all. In fact, I have been trying to encourage her to think for herself and speak for herself. This is what people who care about each other do.

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ORIGINAL: SassySarijane

Where in hell did you get THAT out of .thedark's last post??? That is so not what I read.

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ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

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ORIGINAL: QuixoticErrant
Now I get where you are coming from. Apparently you believe that with proper BDSM she would not speak to her friends about her relationship. Clearly that is the contradiction you see. If that is how you see it, I am not going to argue with your way of doing things. However, many masters, myself included, expect that their submissives are still going to act like normal people - and that means that they will occasionally talk to their friends - even about me.

As to any control I have over her, I am not trying to think for her at all. In fact, I have been trying to encourage her to think for herself and speak for herself. This is what people who care about each other do.

Nice guess but your not reading what I wrote at all, or rather taking it out of context.
There is a big difference between discussing ones relationship and talking about ones partner to friends and relatives, to confiding dissatisfaction about ones relationship - and then to go on and suggest that BDSM is an added complication because she cannot tell him no because shes subject to his decisions.  My questions are - does he know your are the one she confides in?  Is she supposed to tell him her problems and difficulties?
 
I still stand by my thought that she is a construct of her own fantasy.  As Kay stated, it is her own thinking that has caused it.
 
the.dark.

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ORIGINAL: QuixoticErrant
If you do not mean that, then I stand corrected. I believe he knows that she has confided in me. I am not clear that she has said what she needs to say. You are very correct that she is trapping herself in her own fantasy. However, you also seem to no be reading what I am saying. She needs to find her voice and, she has been habituated to never disagreeing with him through BDSM. I am saying that this is a case where she needs to step out of that mindset and speak up for herself.

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ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

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ORIGINAL: QuixoticErrant
If you do not mean that, then I stand corrected. I believe he knows that she has confided in me. I am not clear that she has said what she needs to say. You are very correct that she is trapping herself in her own fantasy. However, you also seem to no be reading what I am saying. She needs to find her voice and, she has been habituated to never disagreeing with him through BDSM. I am saying that this is a case where she needs to step out of that mindset and speak up for herself.

 
I would still disagree that she has been habituated to never disagreeing with him via BDSM.  There are so many posts that perpetuate the myth of BDSM.  That BDSM is to blame for abuse or that BDSM is some awesome relationship type that is more loving, or has more depth or is more spiritual.  All of that is untrue.  The only 'thing' that facillitates or constructs habits are the people within it.  Which is basically what I am suggesting by the construct of her own fantasy statement.
 
There is a thread on culpability.  Whilst the I have issues with that word, the essence of the thread relates to this post IMO.  Responsibility of the self - bdsm only makes it harder because of the people, not the BDSM itself.
 
the.dark.

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ORIGINAL: QuixoticErrant


Further response to Dark...

And if you are saying that she should be telling him first and not me, then you are of course correct. However, not everyone has the strength to face a confrontation without a little support.

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ORIGINAL: wisdomofgiving

I want to speak outside of the 'BDSM can be a trap' mentality for a few minutes. Reading your post, I would say your friend has some decisions to make. These are not any different then being in a vanilla or what name you use for other relationships. When two people want to make a long term committed relationship, and come from very different core beliefs there will be difficulties. If one can't even find honor in the other's beliefs and will not permit it, then they are demanding a cut from that person's core being. Can it work? Perhaps, but there will be bitterness brewing in the long run. A feeling of being foresaken by their husband,wife/dominant, master. This has nothing to do with BDSM or being a Master or a Dominant in the first place. This has it's core in my beliefs are the true way and yours are of the 'devil' way.

Your friend will make the decision base on what she holds true for herself at this time. If she chooses to stay with him, then she will have to learn to deal daily with being cut off from her core. He will never become that core, imho. He has already condemned her and her people. His way is the only way. If I read correctly, she is not permitted to voice her concerns. So doing so has already been halted. He is the way to her salvation.  He knows best for her. He has all her answers and knows the way to heaven. This is his belief and his ignorance. Does she want to be a drop in this pool of ignorance is something only she can answer for herself. It has nothing to do with BDSM, it has to do with what a person is willing to give up for another person. Compromise doesnt seem to be an option here for her either. She will continue with him in what he sees the 'right way to salvation', or she will save herself.

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ORIGINAL: wisdomofgiving

It is a tough road. When I married late hubby he came from the run of the meal Christian family and my family are conservative Jews. Now neither of us were practing in our relgions, but both of us where interested in the metaphysical worlds, mainly paganism. The holidays were always nice and all holidays were celebrated for our daughter. A Christmas tree with Merlin and fairies under the tree and a Menorarah for Hannukah. Easter eggs and Passover food greeted our years. What neither of us could do was trade in our core beliefs, but luckly for us they were the same. It is a primary must for me in any relationship that we honor each others' core beliefs. No amount of loving someone has ever changed that for me, hence why I have trouble comprehending your friend even attempting to do so. Love is great and the depths that we can reach are amazing, but in the end we need to be connected to our core belief, not someone elses' by demand. BDSM is just a term I feel your friend is using as an excuse.
blessings
wisdom

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ORIGINAL: wisdomofgiving

You have to remember one thing, that I am viewing her through a third party..you. I do not know who she is or where her head really is. All I am saying is it is hard to live a relationship when it goes against your core belief. Heck I still have people praying for me so I will be saved, but that is another story. Sometimes our minds can get things confused, especially when the heart is dictating to us. I don't relate to BDSM as anyone's core, and I am sure that might get some people going. What  a core means to me is respect and honor of each other's beliefs, and if that cant come about then there is something wrong. Yes, in my marriage my husband's wants and desires came first. It is a big part of my make-up. But before I would say 'I Do", I had to know he honored and respected who I am. Now I am slow as molasses and took me 3 years to say I Do, but I had to make sure that our core was complimenting each other. Life brings a lot of difficulties and we had our share, but the core never flucuated.
Being a submissive does not lean to stupidity is all I am saying. It doesnt mean they have to blindly agree to everything prior to entering a commitment.