RE: A subs problem with self control (Full Version)

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BoiJen -> RE: A subs problem with self control (4/28/2009 11:34:03 AM)

Ya know just reading the title, I've never, I mean NEVER met a sandwich with self control issues.

boi
Future ruler of the Universe serving MsKitty
list!



PeonForHer -> RE: A subs problem with self control (4/28/2009 11:50:22 AM)

This situation is quite beyond my experience in important ways, SC.  However, it does seem clear to me that he needs generally fewer things to deal with in his life, not more.



NihilusZero -> RE: A subs problem with self control (4/28/2009 11:58:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: amativedame

Clearly from what you say he's dealing with issues about being unhappy in the situation and isn't dealing it it well.  

Situations. He appears to have a knack for engaging in dynamics that are neither comfortable nor supportive for him and his psyche (this includes the D/s dynamic of the relationship). Seriously...he's espoused a religious attachment that encumbers his personal freedom and magnifies his personal guilt, he's entered into a military service that restricts leniency while elevating resentment due to his inability to be sufficiently disciplined and he's chosen a relationship dynamic that weakens his self-confidence and individual resolve (by his own interpretations).

He doesn't exhibit signs of understanding himself and while a motherly character in his life may certainly be something of a healthy support, presuming it can properly come from a D/s relationship is a bit naive. If you genuinely care for him, the hardest part is going to be realizing that while you can (if you choose) be his pillar, you cannot reasonably expect to be his Domme without accepting that the powder keg is likely to eventually blow.



NihilusZero -> RE: A subs problem with self control (4/28/2009 12:01:24 PM)

(Note: Apologies to any purists for my meandering into the 'Ask a Mistress' forum. I actually followed a link from the main page that didn't list the forum the thread belonged to.)



Lockit -> RE: A subs problem with self control (4/28/2009 12:05:06 PM)

NihilusZero... hey we wander on over to the Master's board often enough!  I happen to enjoy your post's and don't think that many have a problem with someone meandering on over! lol



LadyPact -> RE: A subs problem with self control (4/28/2009 12:05:28 PM)

NZ, any "purist" who would happen to disregard what seems to be an intelligent contribution on the matter, just because it happens to come from someone who isn't a female Dominant, probably has bigger issues than the one presented.

Oh, and Lockit, I think you might have misread.  Someone said meditation, not medication.  <wink>



Lockit -> RE: A subs problem with self control (4/28/2009 12:08:43 PM)

LOL.. I can hardly see the letter's here so I may have done just that!  They all blend on me.  I've tried making it all bigger but the darn comp flips out and I read a line and then it all moves back to a start point!  What is a going blind broad to do?  I can't shut up!  Yikes!



dreamerdreaming -> RE: A subs problem with self control (4/28/2009 1:02:24 PM)

What, he never watched TV, never saw a movie about how bad it can suck to be in the military? Of course he did, but he also saw the good it could do for him. He's got less than a year and a half left on his tour, right? There is a point of diminishing returns, for complaining and venting. A point when it can become toxic.

Not everyone is cut out for the military, and if he wants to blow the $47,000 GI bill that he has been earning (for what- the past 2 1/2 years?), there are ways to chapter out. If he wants to, he should go see his Chaplain ASAP. But then don't let him whine and complain that he's lost his chance at the $47,000 GI bill that goes into effect in August. He needs to get some self-control, and take responsibility for his actions.

If he were mine, I'd stop the punishment dynamic immediately. It doesn't help him take responsibility for his actions. You can't grow him up. The military can't grow him up. He has to grow up, himself. He has to make the choice to control himself. Let him make some hard decisions and live with the consequences like a man, instead of like a six year old who throws a tantrum until mommy reacts. Just as with a teenager, you cannot actually control him. You may put rules in place, but ultimately he is the controller of his own actions. So, let him feel in control of himself, even when it involves letting him fall flat on his face. Otherwise, he won't learn what self-control feels like, won't be able to get better at it, and you'll be in effect prolonging his childhood/ adolescence.

Counseling is a great place to start, good job recognizing that- it seems like he is very immature and could use some objective help with developing anger management skills, and some specific work with a counselor on developing coping skills. If he has a history of using drugs and/or alcohol to cope, he may be lagging behind in his maturity in part because of this, and need to develop ways of coping without them. Again, you cannot make him stop using bad coping strategies. But you don't hafta enable him, and you should set a good example. And you don't hafta put up with him drinking to excess, you can kick him to the curb. Sometimes love means letting go. ( If he doesn't drink, great! I'm just taking a stab at this- sorry if it comes off too negative or snarky.)

And IMHO a 22 year old man should cut himself some slack re: masturbation. Why would that make him sexually impure? If god had meant for him not to masturbate, then why would he set him up for failure by giving him scads of testosterone? If he really feels that bad about masturbation, I'd suggest he get the Chaplain's opinion. He might be able to help him sort out his thoughts on the matter, and maybe think about things from a different perspective.
  Another idea is to have him lock himself in chastity (when practical) and then you could help him by milking him at regular intervals. Unless god has something against chastity and /or milking. If I believed in god, I'd choose to believe in a benevolent god. One that wouldn't set me up for failure.



SomethingCatchy -> RE: A subs problem with self control (4/28/2009 5:30:26 PM)

I am an atheist myself, and I've only decided to help him with his religious problems because it seems that he was much happier when he was acting Christian instead of just claiming to be.

He's emotionally needy and I'm not. Our roles are reversed and I'm the man and he's the woman (stereotypically speaking). If I were to tell him to get over it, it would hurt him more than help. He'd probably stop talking about his feelings and emotions. I *love* him too much to hurt him like that. I have no problem looking him in the eye and telling him to stop acting like an idiot when he's getting upset about something that's not worth the energy, though.

I'd describe our current relationship as vanilla kinky. I run the show, mostly because I want him to relax and not worry about things (and it works great), but I rarely enforce a D/s dynamic because we have so little time together. Most of our time is sitting on the couch watching videos, walking the dogs, going for bike rides, or various other outdoors stuff. I've told him more than once that I don't want much from it all until he has more time to spend with me.
I see my job, as his owner, to be a stress reliever. Someone he can turn to to get it all out and then relax. I try to carry his problems so that he can have an easier time of it. This is one of the things I need professional help with because it takes a toll on me, although I'm not complaining at all.

However, I have gotten a few suggestions I think will work for us.




DesFIP -> RE: A subs problem with self control (4/28/2009 5:34:16 PM)

Has he been assessed for A.D.H.D.? Anger and impulse control difficulties scream this to me.

Unfortunately it is not uncommon for people with poor self control to gravitate to the military thinking that they will have the order they need imposed on them from without. Whereas it's a recipe for disaster since you need to have it to succeed in the service.



amativedame -> RE: A subs problem with self control (4/28/2009 5:37:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SomethingCatchy

I am an atheist myself, and I've only decided to help him with his religious problems because it seems that he was much happier when he was acting Christian instead of just claiming to be.

He's emotionally needy and I'm not. Our roles are reversed and I'm the man and he's the woman (stereotypically speaking). If I were to tell him to get over it, it would hurt him more than help. He'd probably stop talking about his feelings and emotions. I *love* him too much to hurt him like that. I have no problem looking him in the eye and telling him to stop acting like an idiot when he's getting upset about something that's not worth the energy, though.

I'd describe our current relationship as vanilla kinky. I run the show, mostly because I want him to relax and not worry about things (and it works great), but I rarely enforce a D/s dynamic because we have so little time together. Most of our time is sitting on the couch watching videos, walking the dogs, going for bike rides, or various other outdoors stuff. I've told him more than once that I don't want much from it all until he has more time to spend with me.
I see my job, as his owner, to be a stress reliever. Someone he can turn to to get it all out and then relax. I try to carry his problems so that he can have an easier time of it. This is one of the things I need professional help with because it takes a toll on me, although I'm not complaining at all.

However, I have gotten a few suggestions I think will work for us.




You cannot carry his problems for him.  This is always a nice concept that some partners seem to have, but you cannot deal with his problems for him.  If he does not deal with them himself then nothing constructive is done.  They only then cause problems for the both of you.  What you can do is help him learn ways of dealing with them himself.  Heck of a lot more productive in the long run.



DomineK -> RE: A subs problem with self control (4/28/2009 5:41:10 PM)

I've known men who, just from NOT masturbating, can become angry and violent.  What on earth has made you both decide to try that while he has additional stress? I'm all for chastity and such, but it might be contributing to the problem here.  



Lockit -> RE: A subs problem with self control (4/28/2009 6:37:21 PM)

Well if he can't act christian and needs to actually live it... I guess you two will be getting married?  He is going to carry guilt from the many things said in the bible and what is taught in that religion.  I know the bible very well and believe me... a lot of this is coming from his views of doing wrong and some weird teachings some have or lack of some other things.  If you get into the greek and hebrew of things... the meanings can change and many work things in some odd ways that don't line up.

Teach grace... get that word down fast because he isn't giving himself any grace and if he believes.. Jesus died for his sins and he has grace.. he needs to try to do right, but is covered in the blood of Jesus.  He shouldn't test and sin knowing he is sinning... but when he does and is truely sorry..he is forgiven.  If he doesn't accept this grace and lives the letter of the law as refered to in the old testiment, he will be judged by the letter of the law and that means if he wears even blended material like cotton and wool or something he is guilty.

There is far more to this and I think you will find that his perception of how good he must be and the words in the bible are going to make him angry because he won't feel right.  Guilt can be murder.  Believe me, I was married to one and was in the ministry and anything set the man off.  Till one day he couldn't take his own sin any more and I went flying across the room to end with a curved spine and more sin of a divorce... his sin that is... I didn't see it that way.  Just the things you have said of his belief's... tells me there is more to this than many can understand unless they have seen within that guilt ridden and trying to be good enough bit.

They called me a heritic because I would not follow the mainstream stuff that didn't add up.. but few would argue with me on it.



SomethingCatchy -> RE: A subs problem with self control (4/28/2009 6:58:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Well if he can't act christian and needs to actually live it... I guess you two will be getting married? He is going to carry guilt from the many things said in the bible and what is taught in that religion. I know the bible very well and believe me... a lot of this is coming from his views of doing wrong and some weird teachings some have or lack of some other things. If you get into the greek and hebrew of things... the meanings can change and many work things in some odd ways that don't line up.

Teach grace... get that word down fast because he isn't giving himself any grace and if he believes.. Jesus died for his sins and he has grace.. he needs to try to do right, but is covered in the blood of Jesus. He shouldn't test and sin knowing he is sinning... but when he does and is truely sorry..he is forgiven. If he doesn't accept this grace and lives the letter of the law as refered to in the old testiment, he will be judged by the letter of the law and that means if he wears even blended material like cotton and wool or something he is guilty.

There is far more to this and I think you will find that his perception of how good he must be and the words in the bible are going to make him angry because he won't feel right. Guilt can be murder. Believe me, I was married to one and was in the ministry and anything set the man off. Till one day he couldn't take his own sin any more and I went flying across the room to end with a curved spine and more sin of a divorce... his sin that is... I didn't see it that way. Just the things you have said of his belief's... tells me there is more to this than many can understand unless they have seen within that guilt ridden and trying to be good enough bit.

They called me a heritic because I would not follow the mainstream stuff that didn't add up.. but few would argue with me on it.



I understand what you're saying, and a huge part of the reason I'm atheist is the guilt complex religion sometimes imposes on people and how it was imposed on me until I took control of my own life.

He seems to make up his own mind about what he'll believe in the bible and what he won't. I don't judge, I just leave that topic alone.



dreamerdreaming -> RE: A subs problem with self control (4/28/2009 7:17:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: amativedame

quote:

ORIGINAL: SomethingCatchy

I am an atheist myself, and I've only decided to help him with his religious problems because it seems that he was much happier when he was acting Christian instead of just claiming to be.

He's emotionally needy and I'm not. Our roles are reversed and I'm the man and he's the woman (stereotypically speaking). If I were to tell him to get over it, it would hurt him more than help. He'd probably stop talking about his feelings and emotions. I *love* him too much to hurt him like that. I have no problem looking him in the eye and telling him to stop acting like an idiot when he's getting upset about something that's not worth the energy, though.

I'd describe our current relationship as vanilla kinky. I run the show, mostly because I want him to relax and not worry about things (and it works great), but I rarely enforce a D/s dynamic because we have so little time together. Most of our time is sitting on the couch watching videos, walking the dogs, going for bike rides, or various other outdoors stuff. I've told him more than once that I don't want much from it all until he has more time to spend with me.
I see my job, as his owner, to be a stress reliever. Someone he can turn to to get it all out and then relax. I try to carry his problems so that he can have an easier time of it. This is one of the things I need professional help with because it takes a toll on me, although I'm not complaining at all.

However, I have gotten a few suggestions I think will work for us.




You cannot carry his problems for him.  This is always a nice concept that some partners seem to have, but you cannot deal with his problems for him.  If he does not deal with them himself then nothing constructive is done.  They only then cause problems for the both of you.  What you can do is help him learn ways of dealing with them himself.  Heck of a lot more productive in the long run.



My point exactly, thank you. There is a point at which "helping" him does more harm than good. When someone "helps" a loved one too much, it can end up robbing the "helped" person of opportunities for growth. That's when its called "enabling".



GoddessTeaze -> RE: A subs problem with self control (4/28/2009 11:36:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SomethingCatchy

I collared my boy about a month ago now, and we've been working on various things to shape him up. We have a meeting with a relationship counselor next week to just go over some problems all couples have and learn how to deal with them in a way that's best for us.[&:]whats wrong with the communication when you've to go to a counsellor already so early in the relationship? Communication = the key to any relationship!

Within the last two months I've seen an erosion on self control. I'm not going to go into detail about what's going on, but I need some ideas to help us.

I have -

Punished him twice for losing control of himself. The punishments were very unpleasant, nearly brought him to tears, and ended with me telling him it'd be worse next time. He's told me a few times after that when he starts thinking of doing things he knows is wrong, he sees the punishment floating in front of him and it stops him short.

Had him write an essay on self control so that I could get a feel for what was going on in his head. I feel that he would benefit from being more involved in his religion so I've started calling churches to ask for a meeting with the leader to explain the problems and get help.

Talked to him many times about his problems and he is incredibly frustrated with his lack of self control. In his essay he even wrote about how people used to use him as an example but now he feels less than.

Does anyone else have ideas? I'm not looking for punishment so much as ways to inspire him to be a better person.


I wonder what you call self control?
It's clear he isn't happy, and he didn't made the right choice for himself
to join the marine, and he is suffering from that choice.

So all that mixed, you expect him to B superman???

Why not give him a break? What's wrong with masturbation?
It can take the edge of his huge frustration, and selfdoubt,
which I read he has. Why not let him masturbate, but not
cum, it will make him more submissive, and the will to please you
will grow more deeply then anything else.

you think you can smack him into submission,
and teach him not to masturbate??
Well that's not  how it works, it's more about getting him
through this time, where he feels unhappy in his job.
As if We never made a mistake but couldn't get out off,
how would you want to b treated then, to get punished
ontop of it all, or some compassion, and learn things,
instead of being made to feel like a failure everywhere??

I wonder how God can help with this issue.[&:]

THis is about communication and understanding,
and giving him a break, and reward him positively
instead of nag on what he does wrong.
It doesn't work with kids either, they don't get happier
from such a treatment, so Focus on the good.

I wish you enough.

GoddezzT`



GYPZYQUEEN -> RE: A subs problem with self control (4/29/2009 12:09:12 AM)

THis man is a volcano waiting to blow and
 he's going ot blow at home..

GET HIM TO GET HELP NOW..
YOU can/t change him...YOU CAN"T
this goes deep..
a professional is needed asap



johnfire -> RE: A subs problem with self control (4/29/2009 4:12:11 AM)

The military offers free counseling for anyone that asks for it. They are to be just like a civilian counsler where it is all confidential. Mix that with the meditating would probably be a good combo.

All branches have their violent groups in them. The Marines keep very tight control over their people as you had mentioned about the 13 mins vs 15 mins. I have been in the military and worked for the military and have worked with all branches personnel. I initially dreaded the Marines comming through our base from working with a couple of former Marines. When they got there, we had far less problems with them cause of the control they have than with some of the other branches.



LadyExcrutia -> RE: A subs problem with self control (4/29/2009 6:20:15 AM)

I think my 2 cents can be useful here....

My husband and I have a healthy union and he's got no self-control issues, but I know military all my life, being an Army brat myself and I know how much they can push someone to the limit, and drive him to the very edge of insanity. I don't know why they do it, it always eluded me because I couldn't understand why someone chose that method over a positive one, but that's just me anyways.

A friend of mine had the same problem. He enlisted out of duty to his country and the pride of his family, who have been in the military for generations. He got to the same point where pressure from all sides bent him to a breaking point. The problem he had may be the same your sub has, too much pressure being put inside him, no time or opportunity to let it vent out.

The other problem is his religion. Don't get me wrong, it's wonderful that he has such morals, but between the pressure the military is putting on him and the strict parameters he is using to judge himself and carry himself on from his convictions, he's getting flames from both sides so there's no way to cool off or anywhere to retreat and that is also causing problems.

In my honest opinion, you just need to tell him to find release and to also let himself relax and not judge himself harshly. Surely, the military needs to ease up too, maybe if he asked for some assistance with the base therapist would be of help, lso to get different duties or to just find someone on the brass with a sympathetic ear that can give him a break and loosen up the reigns, but that's something he has to do. I'd recommend buying him a sandbag and gloves so as to let him unwind previous to meditation and some massages wouldn't be bad, maybe not from you but let him get one a couple times a week can be of some use to soothe him up.



LadyPact -> RE: A subs problem with self control (4/29/2009 6:44:07 AM)

Something that I didn't add in My earlier comments.

It would be My opinion that your boy needs support.  Not just in therapy, which I highly recommend, but also from others who are lifestyle folks who also happen to be military and/or religious.  The best people to learn from about how to deal with any given situation are those that are successful in dealing with it themselves.

There are more people in this lifestyle that are also in the military than most people would imagine.  Seek them out.



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