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RE: Submission = loss of identity? - 4/29/2009 6:17:34 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Miyani
I'm perfectly happy to add backstory as necessary, but for now, I'll just pose a question. In a culture where people are very much expected to be strong and self-reliant, with a solid sense of personal identity, did any of you feel as though there was danger of losing yourself, or your identity, when submitting? Do you feel that having "So-and-so's sub/slave" as part of your identity lessens you, in a way that having "so-and-so's lover" doesn't?

Yes, mine struggled with that for a while. We had endless discussions about the relative value of "follower" vs. "leader" roles. Finally, oddly enough given that she's an art-chick, not a geekette, she picked role models from Star Trek. In her mind, she's not "a slave - the lowest on the totem pole", she's #2... Ryker to my Picard. I was thrilled for her to find an example of submission that was not portrayed as weakness.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miyani
For myself, I think that it is not only possible, but necessary, for a submissive to maintain their identity and their sense of self, in order to be in a healthy and workable D/s relationship.
Almost anything is workable for someone, somewhere, but I'd agree that most people blossom when they have a strong sense of self. Given that any D/s relationship of mine will also be a loving relationship and therefor I'm going to want my partner to flourish... well...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miyani
But I'm trying to help with the struggle of someone who seems to think that in order to submit, he must give up his self, and I'm running out of reassurances. If this idea is something you've struggled with as well, I'd love any insight into your own situation, or advice you have to give.
In the end, what assurance can you give. If someone sees it as a critical part of their own idea of submission to give up their sense of self (yeah, let's see how long that lasts), then more power to them... far away from me. I believe that in the time my wife has been my slave, I have laid down exactly one hard and fast, "the relationship ends here" sort of command...

If I find that I am losing my wife and the woman I love behind some facade of slavehood, the collar comes off.

That is the one "original sin" for her. So that should tell you how strongly I feel about it. But your friend? Well? Who am I to say what will work for him? You might tell your friend exactly what I told Carol... "Look, don't overcomplicate this... just be my wife who obeys me." Why does he have to lose anything simply to make a decision to obey? We all do it all th time.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to Miyani)
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RE: Submission = loss of identity? - 4/29/2009 6:43:01 PM   
Blackwolf9


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Joined: 4/22/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Miyani

Do you feel that having "So-and-so's sub/slave" as part of your identity lessens you, in a way that having "so-and-so's lover" doesn't?

For myself, I think that it is not only possible, but necessary, for a submissive to maintain their identity and their sense of self, in order to be in a healthy and workable D/s relationship.



I certainly don't feel I've lost any part of my identity. If anything I have gained identity and a better understanding and acceptance of myself by being Master's sub.  Yes, there are aspects of myself and my life that have changed in submitting to Master, but overall I have seen it as "becoming more like myself" 

(in reply to Miyani)
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RE: Submission = loss of identity? - 4/29/2009 6:47:22 PM   
Blackwolf9


Posts: 47
Joined: 4/22/2008
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quote:

I cannot lose my identity through submitting because my need to submit is just one part of what makes me who I am.

I have actually grown stronger and more confident in myself from accepting my need and embracing it. If anything I was more lost before.




(in reply to ncbabe)
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RE: Submission = loss of identity? - 4/29/2009 7:50:53 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		If you pick someone who actually likes you the way you are now, you won't be pressured to lose your self because the dominant wants that person.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


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RE: Submission = loss of identity? - 5/1/2009 12:44:30 PM   
ranja


Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/1/2007
Status: offline 		Before i married my husband i struggled with the idea that marrying him ment i had to give up my name...i could have added his name to mine like we do in my country but in England it is usual that the woman takes the mans name...I had no big issues moving to another country for him but loosing my name was difficult. In the two years before we married I had to spell out my name to anybody who needed to know, it being foreign it was never clearly understood...by the time i married the man i was relieved to take his name...
Sometimes it is difficult to wrap your head around an idea and if the idea is that you are losing your identity for what ever reason it might feel like free falling...which can feel lovely or daring or scary...sometimes it is difficult to let go of the past...sometimes all you need is time to get used to a new idea...how much time do you want to give him?

(in reply to Miyani)
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RE: Submission = loss of identity? - 5/1/2009 9:08:01 PM   
Miyani


Posts: 248
Joined: 12/4/2007
Status: offline 		ranja: As much time as it takes. he's worth everything I have to give, and then some.

Thanks, all, for the advice. I'll admit, I was looking more for ideas on how to reassure him that the loss of identity he so fears isn't necessary, but I found many of the comments insightful. I appreciate the time you all took to contribute.

(in reply to ranja)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Submission = loss of identity? - 5/2/2009 5:11:59 AM   
ibelongtoKaiel


Posts: 7
Joined: 4/5/2009
Status: offline 		Very interesting question you pose and one that got me thinking within the context of my life and my experience...For me, I think it is almost the opposite in that I did not find my true identifty until I began serving my Mistress and finding the One - W/we have since married and my real identity has been able to flourish and i am more than comfortable belonging to my Ma'am as Her submissive and whatever other label one would want to attach...Prior to meeting my Ma'am, .i spent years grappling with submissive desires and fantasies and through this stage of my life, i am sure that I wondered what it would be like to actually be in a 24x7 situation and indeed, whether it was even possible for me to live 24x7 in a D/s relationship....I am also sure that i was at some level, embarrassed by my submissive fantasies and desires, but i now realize i that for much of my life, I was really suppressing my true identity - but my true identity would not have ever come forth completely had I not met and fell in love with Mistress Kaiel and it was only able to because first, I trusted Her, second, I respected Her, and third, I grew to love Her more than words can express...Bottom line, I feel that if it is truly in you, then embracing submission with the right person will librate you and help you find your identify rather than lose it....Best of luck!

(in reply to Miyani)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Submission = loss of identity? - 5/2/2009 9:34:43 AM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline 		For me to be an effective submissive, i HAVE to have a stable identity.
A stable identity enables me to serve my Sir with joy, enthusiasm and the realisation that serving is way better than not serving- ie. being released.  If i totally submurge my identity in my Sir's, it seems to me that i would become an echo, with nothing original or fresh to say or do, and my Sir enjoys the parts of me that are me. I don't want to be a mirror, i want to be the ying to his yang, the bonnie to his Clyde, the cat to his dog. If my Sir needed a mirror he could get a Furby - one of those little electronic toys that you had to feed and pay attention to to stop them from "dying".

Thankfully, my Sir is strong enough that he doesn't need a total submursion of my personality - he can take me as i am.  Perhapes the OP could point out to her sub that he is insulting her by suggesting that she needs an automaton, someone with no personality other than what she allows him.  She could also point out that she is strong enough to handle a sub with character!
Maybe if he sees it as insulting her, he will quit trying to make her make him give up his identity - that is - topping from the bottom.

(in reply to kallisto)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Submission = loss of identity? - 5/2/2009 6:07:32 PM   
Zechriel


Posts: 308
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline 		Good evening!
I happen to agree with what some people have said here, that it depends on "identity" or how you identify yourself. Me? I have lots of facets to my identity, depends on how I feel when I wake up, what I am confronted with..etc etc. I consider myself a slave however, because underlying 99% of my identities is the feeling in my soul to take care of others-even if it is an impossibility.  So losing my sense of self is not a concern for me. I am secure in any of my facets..mother, wife, pagan, brat, slave, feeling kinda goth today? kinda old fashioned? kinda old school from the barrio? no problem..I slip right into that role. As a child I learned to change faces rather quickly-as an adult I learned to accept them all as part of me. Just my story, good luck!
Love,
Zechriel


_____________________________

Sir HighlanderME's little z

(in reply to kallisto)
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RE: Submission = loss of identity? - 5/2/2009 7:04:21 PM   
Searchin4What


Posts: 16
Joined: 7/18/2007
Status: offline 		For my money:

I would not want a woman without a strong sense of who she is to submit to me, precisely because I have a strong personality.

I want a woman to know exactly what sort of gift she's giving me, when she makes a gift of herself.

(in reply to Zechriel)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Submission = loss of identity? - 5/2/2009 11:44:20 PM   
sweetsub1957


Posts: 2201
Joined: 4/28/2009
Status: offline 		i don't think being so-and-so's sub would cause me to lose any more identity than being so-and-so's wife, girlfriend or anything else.  Being a sub is part of my identity & i look at it as expressing that identity.

_____________________________

Member: Lance's Fag Hags.

"That's not just a chip on her shoulder, that's the whole potato!" ~Lady Angelika~

In lowering yourself to talking behind my back, you're perfectly positioned to kiss my ass.

An it harm none, do what ye wilt.

(in reply to Miyani)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Submission = loss of identity? - 5/3/2009 6:56:09 AM   
humble75


Posts: 18
Joined: 10/18/2007
Status: offline 		I think it becomes about finding a new identity when you get into a sub-situation. I know my personality seems to get lost in it.

(in reply to kallisto)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Submission = loss of identity? - 5/9/2009 6:52:01 AM   
gumshoe


Posts: 68
Joined: 10/13/2008
Status: offline 		I think identity is really all about how people relate to one another.

For example, someone from another country would be viewed as foreign.
Depending upon the country they may even be viewed as an enemy.

Gender and sexuality are identity concepts, they too play a role in how we relate to others and behave towards them.

SO submission isn't so much losing identity, as a form of identity.
Submission is where you defer to someone who as the boss.
It depends on how you view and so relate to that person, you are not likely to be submissive to everyone you meet.

_____________________________

Where there is no imagination there is no horror, Arthur Conan-Doyle.


(in reply to Miyani)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Submission = loss of identity? - 5/9/2009 1:35:58 PM   
Miwsi


Posts: 35
Joined: 2/25/2009
Status: offline 		For myself, it takes great strength to be a sub, as I have been quite the fiery one most of my life. When I found myself becoming submissive to someone-- this was my choice, we never even discussed D/s relationships at all and I hadn't thought about it. Then one day it hit me while we were just talking. My Master loved my personality and would not have me change for anything... although he did not like it when I said the lord's name in vain. He was Christian, and I am very much not... and I've always taken the lord's name in vain and even did so so he would "sort me out". That would be the brat in me.   I was very much entranced by him and got hot when I knew punishment was imminent.

Being a sub is very much who I am, that is, if I find the right person. It has to happen naturally, I believe... I don't think I will find someone on a site or while actively looking for a D/s relationship... it might have to unfold naturally. I might even be stuck in a vanilla world for the rest of my life, I could be quite content there as well.

It's funny because this morning I was thinking about some of my past relationships, and how I could be very possessive of my men, and one of my friends once said about my ex (who became my husband for 6 years but then we divorced) when I was being possessive, "You don't own him!"

To which I replied, "Yes I do, and he owns me." she shut up, and my then boyfriend didn't argue, in fact he looked quite content with that statement. We were both quite loyal and possessive.... and I like to be possessed by somebody. I personally don't get the more polygamy style D/s relationships, but I also don't share, at all. I am quite jealous and only believe in loving one person. My submission is a gift, and for anyone who might end up being my Master, I would have to leave if he felt he needed more.

If anything, admitting that I do have a sub nature has helped me find part of who I am and has freed me.

(in reply to kallisto)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Submission = loss of identity? - 5/12/2009 4:12:42 PM   
kitastrophe33


Posts: 85
Joined: 9/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Blackwolf9


I certainly don't feel I've lost any part of my identity. If anything I have gained identity and a better understanding and acceptance of myself by being Master's sub.  Yes, there are aspects of myself and my life that have changed in submitting to Master, but overall I have seen it as "becoming more like myself" 




Agree completely here. There was a time when I was pretty lost. I never seemed to have the same ambitions as everyone around me. I sort of floated aimlessly hoping something would inspire me. Before I really came to understand myself, I frequently found myself in crappy relationships with borderline verbally abusive men because they did try to control me and some part of that was attractive.

I've come to know now that there are parts of my personality that are static...unchangeable. I have political and religious beliefs, a specific way of seeing humor in the world, I am a perfectionist, I tend to be very aware of other people's emotional needs and have a natural desire to care for them...I am submissive to one man at a time. I've also learned that some things are modifiable. I can develop habits that will allow me to be more organized and a better housekeeper. I can hug more (my boyfriend is European and perceives my personal space thing when greeting or saying good bye as rude). I can learn how to be more spontaneous and less neurotic about having a plan.

Someone else mentioned the idea of compatibility. D/s relationships are no different than vanilla ones in that respect. Because my partner and I are very compatible in many ways, the changes he requires enhance my personality. They don't squash it. I'm a better, richer person for submitting to my partner.

I wonder why you feel you're losing yourself. You really should talk to your partner about this feeling...

< Message edited by kitastrophe33 -- 5/12/2009 4:13:23 PM >

(in reply to Blackwolf9)
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RE: Submission = loss of identity? - 8/18/2010 9:19:37 PM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline 		Uh oh, looks like someone forgot to brain.

~stef


_____________________________

Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

"Hypocrisy has consequences"

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RE: Submission = loss of identity? - 8/18/2010 9:19:54 PM   
bellesoumise


Posts: 258
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline

(in reply to mstrjx)
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RE: Submission = loss of identity? - 8/18/2010 9:43:14 PM   
sweetsub1957


Posts: 2201
Joined: 4/28/2009
Status: offline 		~FR~
What're all those nasty postings SUBSLUT was OWNED all about? Where are the Mods when we need them?

~sweetsub~

_____________________________

Member: Lance's Fag Hags.

"That's not just a chip on her shoulder, that's the whole potato!" ~Lady Angelika~

In lowering yourself to talking behind my back, you're perfectly positioned to kiss my ass.

An it harm none, do what ye wilt.

(in reply to bellesoumise)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Submission = loss of identity? - 8/19/2010 3:52:07 AM   
phoenixmoonn13


Posts: 398
Joined: 6/11/2010
Status: offline 		just the opposite since finally acknowledging who i am i can now be me and love me for who i am i am stronger more confidant than ever before and dont have to b e ashamed of my feelings and thoughts and i can enjoy life. i have the confidence now to study again and to walk tall.

(in reply to kallisto)
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RE: Submission = loss of identity? - 8/19/2010 4:27:34 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetsub1957

~FR~
What're all those nasty postings SUBSLUT was OWNED all about?  


Obviously someone from overseas who had a limited command of English and thought that badly written crude come-ons on a BDSM site would attract suckers.
quote:



Where are the Mods when we need them?

~sweetsub~


They came, they saw. they conquered.

Actually, this brings up a point - the spammers and scammers on cm are largely overseas and do most of their dirty work when the US mods are asleep.  Perhaps cm could try to recruit a mod or two from Europe or Asia for the US night shift?


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to sweetsub1957)
Profile   Post #: 40
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