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RE: A slave/Master? - 4/29/2009 2:42:15 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		I think the way that it could possibly work out would be if the folks could manage some kind of "V" type poly situation.  I don't know if interaction between all three would be able to be carried off.  I know it wouldn't work in My case because I wouldn't tolerate the dropping of protocols just because the female slave was present.  Just the same, it probably wouldn't work for her because she'd be seeing her Master in a submissive role if I were around.  I'm not saying hide the fact that the other dynamic exists.  I'm saying that the interactions of the two separate dynamics might function better if they weren't intertwined.

This does pose a problem for those of us who believe in the trickle down theory.  (In other words, I own him, so by extension, I own her as well.)  If the slave couldn't handle her Master submitting, it would be kind of difficult to work that out.


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RE: A slave/Master? - 4/29/2009 2:46:22 PM   
allthatjaz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TwoNYCDommes

quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz
lets face it, most sub/slaves would reject their Master if this was to happen and thats understandable.

Because of the poly-ness, the switchiness, or the dishonesty? 
(I apparently move in more poly, switch-friendly circles than many here.)


Yes me too. Im an out and out switch and proud of it but I have to accept that not all, in fact not that many people can relate, let alone adapt to being a switch or having a Master as a switch. I'm certainly not going to waste my breath trying to convince people that it really could work if only they were more open minded. This is about mindset and if its set firmly in one direction then we must respect that.

The answer to your question is and this is only my opinion, that the submissive would feel a weakness in her Dominant. He is her tower of strength, her leader and give her safety within his controls. To suddenly show submission where there was none before may change the entire dynamics of how she can interact to him as a submissive.
I think the poly is an entirely different thing but of course thats questionable too.
As far as honesty... he would be being honest if he told her

< Message edited by allthatjaz -- 4/29/2009 2:54:19 PM >

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RE: A slave/Master? - 4/29/2009 2:51:52 PM   
kuriouswitch


Posts: 325
Joined: 6/17/2008
Status: offline 		if Master wanted to submit to someone else. I'm all for it, I couldn't be dominant to him but I wouldn't think any less of him for doing so to someone else. As long as he is happy and as long as he remains Master to me that is all that I can ask for. I don't want him to hide it from me, if nothing else it would bring us closer as I could maybe help him with any questions he has about submitting to another, or any conflicting questions he has.

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RE: A slave/Master? - 4/29/2009 3:24:09 PM   
Wickad


Posts: 428
Joined: 3/12/2005
Status: offline 		(fast reply)

*tongue in cheek*

he needs to switch outside of his hometown - lol.

Wickad

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RE: A slave/Master? - 4/29/2009 3:24:46 PM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline 		My only real issue with this is that I don't lie. If he's afraid that he'll lose his submissive if he admits to being a switch, and he expects me to help him keep up the deception, instead of "manning up" and admitting his preference, he won't find it with me.

That being said, I've had success with individuals who ride this line in positions as a chatelaine or contrôleur de la maison, where the individual works hirself up into a position of leadership over the other servants.

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RE: A slave/Master? - 4/29/2009 4:48:43 PM   
MsDDom


Posts: 368
Joined: 1/1/2009
From: GA
Status: offline 		bottom line(s), as I spoke w/ him today... he doesn't what to give up his slave, even if he was commanded to do so b/c he likes that and she treats him "damn good". he stated there would have to be a good reason to do so (release her).  I told him that statement alone let's the Mistress know you are a switch, which he doesn't want to be called. states he is not A slave, but would be Her slave (I see no difference, but that is me).  "it is a holistic journey", he babbles...yes, with one party oblivious to her Master's activities. he states him maintaining control over the slave is all for his Mistress ("Her empire")...she (slave) submits b/c he commands. I told him a Mistress will command both, and not b/c he says so.

I told him that is a bad mix and if he wants his slave as his slave then he should keep her, but he should not be disappointed if no Mistress accepts his offer.


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RE: A slave/Master? - 4/29/2009 7:53:51 PM   
ShaktiSama


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Joined: 8/13/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsDDom
But the Master states he has a "submissive nature" and seeks his Domme/Mistress.  Yet, the Master doesn't want to give up his slave and never wants the slave to find out about his desire to be a slave. 


This is the problem, from my point of view.  Switches, especially female switches, are able to pull off the dynamic where they submit to one person and dominate another all the time.  But no one can do this while deceiving their submissive partners or depriving them of information.  That's BS.

If his slave doesn't want to submit to a switch, she is entitled to be released.  And she certainly has a right to be given complete and honest information by her sexual partners, no matter how "domly" his dynamic with her may be.

This guy is a switch, sure.  He's also a jerk imho.  Going behind a partner's back is not cool.  Why is this so hard for people to accept?


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RE: A slave/Master? - 4/29/2009 8:01:40 PM   
aidan


Posts: 904
Joined: 5/28/2005
Status: offline 		He's a switch, which is perfectly fine.

He's also a bit of a coward, which is not acceptable. At first I wrote "what you're talking about is tantamount to cheating", then scratched that because what you're talking about is cheating. That's never cool, ever, in any time, place, or context.

You want to be a switch? Fine, have the balls to let the people you're intimate with know and accept what comes of that.

EDIT: I don't mean you personally, I mean an abstract you.


< Message edited by aidan -- 4/29/2009 8:12:19 PM >

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RE: A slave/Master? - 4/29/2009 8:08:19 PM   
MsDDom


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From: GA
Status: offline
quote:

Why is this so hard for people to accept?

that is the $10 million dollar question...people r selfish


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RE: A slave/Master? - 4/30/2009 12:43:35 AM   
allthatjaz


Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama



This guy is a switch, sure.  He's also a jerk imho.  Going behind a partner's back is not cool.  Why is this so hard for people to accept?



Accept what though? Accept in himself that he is a switch or for his slave to accept he's a switch?
If he does not accept himself to be a switch then he's living on planet gaga. Then again he probably understands the prejudice towards submissive men from a fairly large majority of the online scene and he probably knows his slave girl well enough to know he will lose her. Does he take that risk ? or does he try to take the apple and the orange without anyone noticing?
In some ways I feel sorry for him. I don't feel sorry for his cheating ways but for his inner turmoil. Perhaps he's felt like this for years but just doesn't have the courage to be true to himself. Perhaps he has listened to his slave as she told him how she could never submit to a man who submits.
I equate this to cross dressers and T-girls who for years hide away their secret for fear of scorn and ridicule. Phil who is happily married with a family but who secretly dresses in his wife's clothes when she's not around and calls himself Philipa. I know thats not cheating but its the same kind of inner turmoil. Its a need that has to be fed.
For those of us that are or have been pro Mistresses... how many of us have had that big bad dominant come and pay us good money because they just needed to submit for a while? I know I have had my share.

What he has to recognize is that he is being destructive. Yes he is selfish, because this is all about him and there is only one person that is going to suffer if this carries on and that's his slave girl. He needs to accept that he may never find a switch or a Mistress but by coming out, so to speak and by accepting who he is, he will give himself a whole new freedom.



< Message edited by allthatjaz -- 4/30/2009 12:45:24 AM >

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RE: A slave/Master? - 4/30/2009 2:00:04 AM   
ShaktiSama


Posts: 1674
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz
Accept what though? Accept in himself that he is a switch or for his slave to accept he's a switch?


Sorry if this was unclear:  in my eyes, whether or not he is a switch is completely bloody irrelevant.  There may or may not be prejudices against switches that he needs to combat.  Personally, it's such a non-issue to me that I don't care.  What I think he needs to accept is that you cannot lie to people.

I don't care if you're gay or straight, male or female, dom sub or switch, whatever.  If you're going to have multiple partners, you need to tell everyone involved and give them the chance to pull the ripcord.  There is no way that anyone can consent to bdsm if their consent is not informed.

Lying and cheating on your partners are just "rape lite" for the cowardly, so far as I'm concerned.  It's not acceptable behavior.

So far as the rest of your points about living as a switch go?  I honestly don't know, and so can only defer to your greater experience in the matter.  Maybe switches have it harder than others,but it seems to me that everyone in this community has a struggle both to accept who they are and to communicate to others what they want and don't want.  None of us fit a mold perfectly, there are always adjustments needed.

(Well, except for Boijen, but let's not bring her into this.)


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RE: A slave/Master? - 4/30/2009 3:54:27 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		I'm hoping this isn't going to help transform this thread into another thread that has basically drifted to a discussion of cheating.  However, the parallel is so obviously seen here that it can't be ignored.

Take the names of the players here and change them on the script.  Try this with Me here for a second and I think you'll get My point.

Female slave - Wife

Master/switch (the male in the scenario) - Husband

Potential Mistress - Other Woman


We are literally five pages up in arms because this exact same concept is going on in the other thread.  The only difference with this one is that all of the participants are BDSM friendly.  As with many other things in life, just because BDSM is a component, it shouldn't make the moral or ethical standard acceptable if it were less. 

I realize that this does pose a challenge for the male.  There are many s types in this lifestyle who would see their owner as less if they were Master to them, yet submitted to someone else.  Very much the same as the fear that many of those husbands will be afraid of that vanilla wife's reaction when he goes to her and tells her that he wants to participate in wiitwd.  The male in either case is automatically up against the preconceived notions that some people have. 

If keeping the female in the dark is seen as lying and cheating when she's not kinky, the same holds true if she is kinky. 


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The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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RE: A slave/Master? - 4/30/2009 4:15:55 AM   
Rainfire


Posts: 4047
Joined: 1/5/2009
Status: offline 		  For me, the whole scenario boils down to the dishonesty. It's not whether the male is a switch, big whoop. It's not about whether the female sub feels less submissive if she knows her dominant is subbing to another woman. It's about the lying. If we're supposed to have relationships in this lifestyle based on trust, how the frak can the sub trust him again? This could be just me but I know that once someone has lied to me (and I found out) I get into a twist of "well, they lied about this, what the hell else have they lied to me about?" As a result, I can't trust them again because I just don't know when or what else they've lied about.

I won't go down the "cheating" path with this for several reasons. A - we don't know if the OP's original situation is open or not. B - My definition of monogamy might differ from yours, for that matter, I admit that Lumus and I have different opinions on what constitutes cheating. C - who are we to judge when while we have a good overview of the situation, we don't know everything?

Again, it's about the dishonesty and trouble it will cause sooner or later. It's going to bite someone HARD in the ass.....

(edited to add a missing word that changed the entire meaning of the post! YIKES!)


< Message edited by Rainfire -- 4/30/2009 4:17:20 AM >

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RE: A slave/Master? - 4/30/2009 5:05:34 AM   
chamberqueen


Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/25/2007
From: Kalamazoo, MI
Status: offline 		As a Domme I once worked with a Master who sometimes needed to live out a submissive scenario.  He said that he got that itch only once or twice a year so didn't feel like a true switch.  He did not want anyone who knew him as a Master to know because he thought it would harm his reputation in his eyes.  I had no problem doing a session with him.  It was nonsexual and basically consisted of verbal and physical humiliation. 

I think that the main difference would be in the frequency.  This was a one time visit to me.  I agreed with him that it might spoil the mental picture his sub had of him.  If it was a case where someone wanted to switch frequently and meet often then I can see the need for openness with their own subs about it.  In a case like I mentioned I don't feel that he was cheating on his sub at all.  I was fully dressed at all times, there was no deep emotional involvement, and he just got a chance to dress up and be called names.


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RE: A slave/Master? - 4/30/2009 5:14:43 AM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		This situation is different than that chamberqueen.  This guy wants a dominant calling the shots with his submissive, but through him.  The domina is to do his job in a sense and he takes the credit for it in his submissive's eyes.  It could be seen as a major betrayal to the submissive partner and is basically living a lie if a domina gets involved.  She takes part, knowingly of a major betrayal.  I see him still calling the shots on how it all goes and what the domina is allowed to do in the situation.  There isn't much truth in any of it and the potential for harm is present.

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RE: A slave/Master? - 4/30/2009 4:31:25 PM   
Goddess2002


Posts: 226
Joined: 2/29/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

This situation is different than that chamberqueen.  This guy wants a dominant calling the shots with his submissive, but through him.  The domina is to do his job in a sense and he takes the credit for it in his submissive's eyes.  It could be seen as a major betrayal to the submissive partner and is basically living a lie if a domina gets involved.  She takes part, knowingly of a major betrayal.  I see him still calling the shots on how it all goes and what the domina is allowed to do in the situation.  There isn't much truth in any of it and the potential for harm is present.


Bingo...perfectly summed up. This was my sense in trying to work all these scenarios in my head!

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