RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak (Full Version)

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kdsub -> RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak (5/3/2009 9:43:06 AM)

Sanity if what you are saying is true then you should have some examples...love to hear them



FirmhandKY -> RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak (5/3/2009 10:10:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire

Torture = extreme interrogation techniques

Global warming = climate change

Terrorist surveilance program = warrantless wiretapping of every phone call made within the US.

POW = enemy combatant (therefore not covered by the Geneva Conventions)

Sanity, you're only just NOW realizing what's been happening under you nose for the last eight years?


liberal redefinitions just for Mars [:)]:

legal but harsh interrogation techniques -> torture

global warming -> climate change (this was "your" side, Mars, for the very reason that Sanity's article mentions.  You did ... well .... you know ... read his post, didn't you? )

Illegal combatant -> POW (your side again, Mars.)


Other redefinitions:

***

Skeptic -> denier (any scientist or lay person who isn't a true believer of the religion of "climate change".)

Scientist -> anyone with a college degree who has faith of the dogma of global warming.

Paid-for hack -> any scientist who challenges any part of the global warming dogma. (see also: "denier".)

Religious faith -> Superstition

Liberal faith -> Science

Junk Science -> Any scientific study which cast doubts on any liberal belief

Feminism -> In favor of abortion

Individual equality -> equality of outcomes (regardless of individual differences)

Toleration -> Hatred of non-Western Civilization

Hatred of Western Civilization ->Multi-culturalism

Secular -> atheism

Neutral Point of View -> Supportive of liberal beliefs

Fringe belief -> any belief that isn't "liberal".

Mainstream -> any belief that is "liberal"

Out of the Mainstream -> Not what a liberal believes

Conservative -> right-wing

Right-wing -> extremist

Socialist - > liberal

Liberal -> progressive

A.D. -> C.E.

Christmas -> Holiday Season

Merry Christmas -> Happy Holidays

Santa's "ho, ho, ho" -> Santa's "ha, ha, ha"

Capitalism -> an oppressive social system

Socialism -> a kind, fair method of living

Stolen election -> any close election in which a liberal doesn't win

Fair election -> any election won by a liberal, even if votes have to be manufactured (Washington) or "found" in someone's car (Minnesota).

***

There's plenty more, but this is all I had time to document.  I'm sure some will post some from "the other side of the fence" as well.

More power to ya.

Firm



Crush -> RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak (5/3/2009 10:35:48 AM)


Politicians remind me of that old car salesman joke:  "How do you know a politician is lying?  His/her lips are moving."

Now, with "NewSpeak" we have to dig to find out what the message really is that we're being sent.   Fortunately for us,  we do have the opportunity to discuss these kinds of things quickly instead of over days or years, as in the past.

Doesn't mean we won't be newspeaked but at least we have a better chance at reading between those lines and around.

It really goes back centuries, not just a decade or so.  Orwell put it into a form we could recognize from our political leadership, but "organized religion" (not the same as spirituality, for my use) has been using it since the first shaman.  

Let's face it; Newspeak isn't PlainSpeak.  It is an attempt to cloak/hide something.  Maybe it could be called "CloakSpeak"









Owner59 -> RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak (5/3/2009 11:43:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Which, I never claimed they have.

But... who is "Liberal" these days. Isn't everybody except for the two or three  "Neocon" right wing extremists remaining in the Republican party "Progressive" now... [;)]



quote:

ORIGINAL: YoursMistress

I don't think Liberals have cornered the market on gullibility, by any stretch of the imagination.  







Naw,you said it about all Americans.(except of course,for the one`s that agree w/ you).

And you did call yourself a "proud neo-con" here on these boards.

Still proud?

I`m still wondering how one can be proud of being a neo-conservative.

~~~~

Hey Firm.

What would you call someone who was "skeptical" of the Holocaust?Just like with this subject,there are some people who claim no such thing happened.Shall we refer to them as "Holocaust skeptics"?



Lorr47 -> RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak (5/3/2009 11:44:46 AM)

quote:

liberal redefinitions just for Mars :

legal but harsh interrogation techniques -> torture

global warming -> climate change (this was "your" side, Mars, for the very reason that Sanity's article mentions. You did ... well .... you know ... read his post, didn't you? )

Illegal combatant -> POW (your side again, Mars.)


I still think overall I am the most liberal person on this site.  However, I do have my "issue" exceptions including the waging of war; war crimes and gun control.  I have voiced my feelings about "war crimes" previously and been booed.  I would never prosecute any American for alleged war crimes, period.  As much as I hate Bush and Cheney I would not make an exception.  However, Bill Moyers Journal this weekend had a past adviser to Cheney and another expert discussing this issue and all I see is a gigantic expenditure of time, money and effort coming our way. If you can view the segment, I recommend it.  I didn't realize how much of a problem it is going to become because of treaties etc.  The men who actually performed the acts are immune.  Two years ago the congress passed a statute that made them immune; also the Nuremberg defense works for soldiers and field CIA officers; and also Obama will not tolerate prosecution.  As to the attorneys, perhaps the only way is to have an investigation; identify the principals; and pardon them. The "experts" felt that the investigation and pardoning was the very least  that Obama should do if only to protect himself..  Both commentators felt that Obama was  risking a great deal by digging up this bone and then doing nothing.

Do you feel that we will accomplish anything by chasing these people around?  The commentators stressed that congress will probably not help since technically a number of them could also be charged; republicans and democrats alike.



popeye1250 -> RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak (5/3/2009 2:06:30 PM)

"The Kyoto Protocol" = "But somehow even though it was voted down by 100-0 in the Senate we'll try to steal the U.S. Taxpayer's money for it."



FirmhandKY -> RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak (5/3/2009 5:45:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Hey Firm.

What would you call someone who was "skeptical" of the Holocaust?Just like with this subject,there are some people who claim no such thing happened.Shall we refer to them as "Holocaust skeptics"?


Global Warming is a debate about physical process and what they mean, supposedly in the world of science.  Skepticism is a necessary and required part of the process.

The Holocaust was a historic event which is well documented by personal, first person accounts, political documentation, physical evidence and history.

Attempting to equate one with the other is the logical equivalent to a straw-man argument.

You - and others who use the term - are attempting nothing other than to intimidate people to stop them from performing real science or to invalidate actual scientific findings, due to political and ideological considerations.

Which is the opposite of "science".

Firm



FirmhandKY -> RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak (5/3/2009 5:57:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorr47

Do you feel that we will accomplish anything by chasing these people around?  The commentators stressed that congress will probably not help since technically a number of them could also be charged; republicans and democrats alike.



Lorr, I think that if the Congress actually proceeded to attempt to try American political figures for "torture" or "war crimes" for actions taken during the fight against terrorism in the last 8 years, it would likely be a national watershed event.

It would be a break in the American contract about an "honorable opposition", and convince many - including me - that nothing other than active and armed resistance would be required to return this nation to a semblance of normality.

Firm



rulemylife -> RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak (5/3/2009 6:24:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Lorr, I think that if the Congress actually proceeded to attempt to try American political figures for "torture" or "war crimes" for actions taken during the fight against terrorism in the last 8 years, it would likely be a national watershed event.

It would be a break in the American contract about an "honorable opposition", and convince many - including me - that nothing other than active and armed resistance would be required to return this nation to a semblance of normality.

Firm



Really?

So, without re-hashing the issue of torture and war crimes, what you are essentially saying is if you do not agree with the actions of the administration in power you feel vindicated to take arms against it?



FirmhandKY -> RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak (5/3/2009 6:36:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Lorr, I think that if the Congress actually proceeded to attempt to try American political figures for "torture" or "war crimes" for actions taken during the fight against terrorism in the last 8 years, it would likely be a national watershed event.

It would be a break in the American contract about an "honorable opposition", and convince many - including me - that nothing other than active and armed resistance would be required to return this nation to a semblance of normality.

Firm



Really?

So, without re-hashing the issue of torture and war crimes, what you are essentially saying is if you do not agree with the actions of the administration in power you feel vindicated to take arms against it?



No.

Putting words in my "mouth" when the words I posted were quite clear is just another example of your attempt at trolling.

Firm



rulemylife -> RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak (5/3/2009 6:48:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

And I could be wrong on this, but it appears to me to be the case that those on the left are far more susceptible to being manipulated through changes in the use of words than those on the right.


[sm=rofl.gif][sm=rofl.gif][sm=rofl.gif][sm=rofl.gif][sm=rofl.gif][sm=rofl.gif][sm=rofl.gif][sm=rofl.gif][sm=rofl.gif][sm=rofl.gif]

Thanks Sanity, you gave me my laugh for the night.

Two words for you.

Fox News.



rulemylife -> RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak (5/3/2009 6:50:04 PM)

I see, so you're really not evading the question, you just don't feel like answering.



FirmhandKY -> RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak (5/3/2009 7:20:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

I see, so you're really not evading the question, you just don't feel like answering.

I directly and concisely answered the question you posed.

You just want a fight, and I won't give it to you.

Troll elsewhere.

Firm



rulemylife -> RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak (5/3/2009 7:50:14 PM)

I don't want a fight, only an answer.

You posted a very controversial statement and now claim you answered me when I questioned it, but the only answer you gave didn't address the question.

Let's refresh our memories:

It would be a break in the American contract about an "honorable opposition", and convince many - including me - that nothing other than active and armed resistance would be required to return this nation to a semblance of normality.

Firm

So, again, do you believe that you should be able to take up arms against government policies you disagree with?



subrob1967 -> RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak (5/3/2009 8:23:59 PM)

"Undocumented Immigrant" = Illegal Alien



Owner59 -> RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak (5/3/2009 8:30:48 PM)

Illegally invading Iraq = spreading freedom.



MarsBonfire -> RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak (5/3/2009 8:54:32 PM)

Socialists - progressives?

Interesting.

Conservative seems to becoming synonymous with Fascist, and Nazi...

Which side would I rather be on? Hummmm....

Oh and Firm... the fact that you are so willing to redefine these terms to suit your arguments is EXACTLY THE POINT. (thanks for helping me to prove what I was saying by providing such a prime example.) The GOP seems to definitley be the nice, friendly folks working overtime at the Terry Gilliam "Ministry of Information" these days. I still marvel at their rebranding of the US Constitution as a "living document" so that entire sections of it's foundation, like habeus corpus could be ignored, or how they feel the Geneva Conventions are to be considered "Quaint." I guess from there, it really WAS a short hop to accepting the idea of "Pre-emptive War."

Not that it matters... since they have become "The Incredible Shrinking Political Party." I look forward to the 2012 elections... where most predictions are that we'll all be treated to seeing the GOP disappear up it's own ulcerated colon. (I'll be the one building the dance floor over it's grave. The urinal will be located immediately in front of the headstone, which will also function as the splashgaurd.)



FirmhandKY -> RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak (5/3/2009 9:28:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

I don't want a fight, only an answer.

You posted a very controversial statement and now claim you answered me when I questioned it, but the only answer you gave didn't address the question.

Let's refresh our memories:

It would be a break in the American contract about an "honorable opposition", and convince many - including me - that nothing other than active and armed resistance would be required to return this nation to a semblance of normality.

Firm

So, again, do you believe that you should be able to take up arms against government policies you disagree with?


And I'll give you the exact same answer I gave before, but which does not give you the red meat you wish to have in order to provoke a fight:

No.

Now, I've said it twice.  Is that so terribly difficult to understand?

Or, can you only hear the answer you wish to hear?

(I have no doubt that later, in some other thread, you will make the claim that I advocated armed resistance to our government because I disagreed with some of it's policies.)

Which is not what I said, but it is what you wish to hear.

We might be able to have a real discussion, if you'd quit trying to play "gotcha" games.

Firm



FirmhandKY -> RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak (5/3/2009 9:53:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire

Socialists - progressives?

Interesting.

hmmm, without going back to look, I believe you just made that up.  I think it was more like:

Socialist -> liberal

Liberal -> progressive.

Kinda like the concept of "stepping down" the meanings.  Not equating Socialist->Liberal->progressive.

Of course, if it is your belief that that Socialist -> progressive, then who am I to argue with your opinion on the subject? I'll bow to your greater expertise in the matter. [:)]

quote:

ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire

Conservative seems to becoming synonymous with Fascist, and Nazi...

Only among a certain narrowly defined (and minded) group of left-wing extremists.

Some also have a problem distinguishing between "conservative" and "Republican".  Kinda like the problem distinguishing between "Socialist" and "progressive", eh? [:D]

quote:

ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire

Oh and Firm... the fact that you are so willing to redefine these terms to suit your arguments is EXACTLY THE POINT. (thanks for helping me to prove what I was saying by providing such a prime example.) The GOP seems to definitley be the nice, friendly folks working overtime at the Terry Gilliam "Ministry of Information" these days. I still marvel at their rebranding of the US Constitution as a "living document" so that entire sections of it's foundation, like habeus corpus could be ignored, or how they feel the Geneva Conventions are to be considered "Quaint." I guess from there, it really WAS a short hop to accepting the idea of "Pre-emptive War."

I think you missed the point.

Those were examples of more "newspeak" that the liberal side of the cultural and political "wars" have adopted in order to increase the acceptance of their ideas.

For example, calling the constitution a "living document" is a generally liberal concept, I'm afraid.  Mostly, conservatives are strict constructionists.

Terry Gilliam?  The guy who renounced his US Citizenship in protest over Bush administration policies (or because he was worried about his tax liability, depending on who you believe)?   I guess you guys can have a "Ministry of Truth" if you want one ... and put him in charge.

Geneva convention "quaint"?  I'd like to see a quote to that effect, please. You do mean the treaty to which the Bush admin spent a lot of time trying to determine what their exact duties and responsibilities were, before they took any actions based on it?

You know, Mars, I hate to say this, but most of the stuff you seem to rail against, the examples you give ... are mostly coming from the "left" side of the political equation ... are you sure you haven't been fighting for the wrong side?

quote:

ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire

Not that it matters... since they have become "The Incredible Shrinking Political Party." I look forward to the 2012 elections... where most predictions are that we'll all be treated to seeing the GOP disappear up it's own ulcerated colon. (I'll be the one building the dance floor over it's grave. The urinal will be located immediately in front of the headstone, which will also function as the splashgaurd.)

Lots of toilet imagery there, Mars.

Firm



subrob1967 -> RE: Reeducating The Masses Through NewSpeak (5/4/2009 1:04:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Illegally invading Iraq = spreading freedom.


So, when is Bush going to jail again?



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